That's not strictly true. You can have a design flaw that doesn't exhibit itself on all units or in all conditions.
As stated, I don't see how that is possible. If it's a design flaw causing a "short circuit" when you touch the other antenna then the operating band in use or RF signal strength would not affect it's ability to "short circuit" simply because the antenna is exposed.
I've previously stated that I can see an issue with the Triquint chip, which in itself could be a flawed design that is causing problems with certain spectrums and signal strengths. This, however, would not a design flaw of the iPhone, but of the TriQuint chip. I think this is a worst case scenario which makes it less likely to be the issue but this would be a reason to recall the iPhone 4.
I think everyone here would just like the old Ireland back.
Agreed.
When you start getting compared to TeckStud and you have SpotOn/MacTripper in your corner (until he got banned, yet again) you need ask yourself if you're being reasonable.
Hopefully in the next couple days things will be back to normal and I'm sure by the time the iPhone 4 hits the shores of Ireland proper he'll be first in line and first to agree this is the by far the best iPhone Apple has ever made and the best smartphone money can buy.
Sure...take for example the design flaw in the space shuttle SRB...it only happened in specific circumstances (cold weather). Burn though didn't happen every time...but it was still a design flaw in the SRB.
Quote:
If it's a design flaw causing a "short circuit" when you touch the other antenna then the operating band in use or RF signal strength would not affect it's ability to "short circuit" simply because the antenna is exposed.
Unless heat, humidity, skin salinity, signal strength, frequency, distance to tower, etc affects the outcome. Could be the designed mitigation for RF interference doesn't work in all real world conditions.
That said, the most consistent way for me to reproduce this bug is the use a penny. My palm isn't conductive enough to reliably reproduce the effect.
Sure...take for example the design flaw in the space shuttle SRB...it only happened in specific circumstances (cold weather). Burn though didn't happen every time...but it was still a design flaw in the SRB.
Unless heat, humidity, skin salinity, signal strength, frequency, distance to tower, etc affects the outcome. Could be the designed mitigation for RF interference doesn't work in all real world conditions.
That said, the most consistent way for me to reproduce this bug is the use a penny. My palm isn't conductive enough to reliably reproduce the effect.
Yet, I can cover all the scenarios you mention and still not recreate the issue. I've gone so far as to use wet hands dipped in salty water as well as use conductive metals to bridge the gap. Therefore it cannot possibly be design flaw causing a short circuit from using an external antenna. That is busted. If Apple recalls every single iPhone 4 and comes out with a design that encases the antenna in plastic or rubber, perhaps by offering free Bumpers to all iPhone 4 users, then I'll concede that it's a design flaw that affects all iPhone 4s.
Yet, I can cover all the scenarios you mention and still not recreate the issue. I've gone so far as to use wet hands dipped in salty water as well as use conductive metals to bridge the gap. Therefore it cannot possibly be design flaw causing a short circuit from using an external antenna. That is busted. If Apple recalls every single iPhone 4 and comes out with a design that encases the antenna in plastic or rubber, perhaps by offering free Bumpers to all iPhone 4 users, then I'll concede that it's a design flaw that affects all iPhone 4s.
I don't think it's really possible to reproduce this issue reliably because there are too many variables. Manufacturing variances, changes in signal frequency, changes in interference...
Maybe the problem only occurs at a specific frequency or maybe only when there is a specific type of interference.
I am almost sure the issue is caused by standing waves which occur when the exposed antenna is held with bare hands. Apple can change the software to help filter out this type of interference. I think they can sort a lot of it out with software but I'm willing to bet there will always be some issues having the antenna exposed like this.
Boy, Steve is taking some more big risks here with what is conceivably Apple's flagship product. I think he should let Apple PR and engineers handle this one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDBLACK
I don't think it's really possible to reproduce this issue reliably because there are too many variables. Manufacturing variances, changes in signal frequency, changes in interference...
Maybe the problem only occurs at a specific frequency or maybe only when there is a specific type of interference.
I am almost sure the issue is caused by standing waves which occur when the exposed antenna is held with bare hands. Apple can change the software to help filter out this type of interference. I think they can sort a lot of it out with software but I'm willing to bet there will always be some issues having the antenna exposed like this.
When you start getting compared to TeckStud and you have SpotOn/MacTripper in your corner (until he got banned, yet again) you need ask yourself if you're being reasonable.
Hopefully in the next couple days things will be back to normal and I'm sure by the time the iPhone 4 hits the shores of Ireland proper he'll be first in line and first to agree this is the by far the best iPhone Apple has ever made and the best smartphone money can buy.
Things could get a little uglier before they get better. As much as I want the old Ireland back, we'll have to deal with this first and see what comes of it (if verified)
To determine whether this is just a problem with the software measurement of the signal strength, I tested the actual data throughput speed in both unheld and held states. The impact of holding the iPhone in your hand is SEVERE, cutting up/down speeds to a fraction of their unheld potential. Here are the results.
Maybe/hopefully this can be fixed in software, but it's not just about measurement in the UI, nor is it a typical issue that affects all phones.
Death grip issues aside (which are present on my shiny new iPhone 4 too), I find AT&T's speed test results pretty interesting. Here in the UK I get at best about half that on 3G (through O2's network).
To members in the UK, is your iPhone 4 suffering from any of these problems?
Mine's fine if not even better than my 3G. I read a lot about these issues but I can honestly say all my iPhones have worked beautifully. The 3G is on O2, the 4 is on Vodafone and seems even better. Maybe due to the new antenna?
All these connection issues seem to be isolated to the US, well at least from my reading. Any feedback on UK iPhones would be great.
My UK iPhone 4 is on O2 and I can drop the reception from 5 bars of 3G to 1 bar of GPRS by holding the phone in a normal way. It takes a couple of minutes to completely deteriorate, but it usually gets there. Sometimes I've even managed to knock it offline completely.
Funny thing is I don't actually care that much. I just hold it in a different way, but then it mostly sits on my desk all day grabbing email, playing Audible books and podcasts, and then playing games and video on the train ride home.
I'm right handed but always hold phones in my left hand, then use my right hand to prod the touch screen. Isn't that how everyone uses them?
What if Apple purposely did this? So that they had a good reason to put out 4.01 mainly to stop the new loop holes found for jailbreaking etc.? Its a damn good reason to put out a iOS isnt it.......
I don't think it's really possible to reproduce this issue reliably because there are too many variables. Manufacturing variances, changes in signal frequency, changes in interference...
Maybe the problem only occurs at a specific frequency or maybe only when there is a specific type of interference.
I am almost sure the issue is caused by standing waves which occur when the exposed antenna is held with bare hands. Apple can change the software to help filter out this type of interference. I think they can sort a lot of it out with software but I'm willing to bet there will always be some issues having the antenna exposed like this.
1) But there are plenty of videos and pundits reporting that they CAN reproduce the this issue reliably simply by bridging the gap between the two antennas.
2) If it's a manufacturing variance then it's not a design issue of the issue. A design issue of the manufacturing process of that particulate line, now that is more likely which is why it's not occurring with all units.
3) I don't see how a RF signal variation would result in one unit causing a "short circuit" and another not causing a short circuit. They'll all using the same antenna for UMTS. I get no variation, not even a signal drop of one bar from bridging the gap with metal, with fingers or with fingers covered in salty water.
4) To restate, I haven't ruled out design flaw of a UMTS chip, but I have ruled out a design flaw from using an exposed antenna that causing a short circuit. If Apple issues a Bumper to every iPhone 4 to be used as standard procedure or recalls every iPhone 4 to be redesigned with an insulated case then I'll gladly admit I was wrong right after I sell all my Apple stock.
Boy, Steve is taking some more big risks here with what is conceivably Apple's flagship product. I think he should let Apple PR and engineers handle this one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008
Things could get a little uglier before they get better. As much as I want the old Ireland back, we'll have to deal with this first and see what comes of it (if verified)
As much as I dislike the emails from Steve, as previously noted, this one is at least a good email. Meaning, instead of telling the customer they are doing something wrong he's simply saying the problem isn't poor reception, but something else causing poor reception or at least the appearance of poor reception. Whether this is accurate or not is another story.
No doubt, some people are experiencing real problems - and those people should take the problem phone back to Apple and get it exchanged for a new one.
But the real clueless people are like ones here who go to the Apple store and squeeze 12 phones to watch the display change without bothering to see if it really affected the devices performance. I have a 3Gs and an iPhone 4. They both show the screwy meter thing when gripped, yet they both work just fine even when the display says "No Service".
That sure as heck sounds like a software bug to me.
Again, if you are one of the minority who is having an actual hardware issue - take the phone back to Apple. They will fix or replace it. Stuff happens. But moaning on the Internet won't solve anything other than furthering the noise level.
I don't have to respect people who are flat out wrong because they take information from the Internet, misconstrue it and then further repeat the bad information. And disagreeing with someone doesn't equate a lack of respect either - it's not a binary proposition.
Let's look at it a different way. If this wasn't Gizmodo just starting more $h!t but a sincere and real problem - say a systemic design flaw as some have hysterically claimed in this and other forums - with over a million sales, don't you think actual iPhone 4 owners would be coming out of the wood work in droves?
If it was really a systemic design flaw, you would see major news organizations reporting it with their own research, interviews and follow up - instead of pointing to "online reports".
We don't see any of that. It's another internet tempest in the teapot. It's like the game telephone - but on steroids because there are tens of thousands of people with nothing better to do than endlessly gossip.
The level of furor over this is what is ignorant. For the vast majority of people, this is a total non-issue. It more than likely is EXACTLY what Apple claimed it is - a software issue. I realize conspiracy theories and "Apple is Dooooomed!" are far more entertaining, but still believe that Occam's razor applies far more often than not (and certainly in this case as well).
I don't think Apple would suffer too badly even if it couldn't fix the problem. Most people will figure ways around it because they like the phone too much to want to swap and most people will use a case. Personally, even without a case I won't be swapping phones to Android or whatever. At first it was pretty tricky holding the phone differently but I've since found ways, especially using my left index finger or thumb resting above the screen at the top of the phone that really feels ok, it's not what I would have chosen but it doesn't bother me now.
When I do hold the phone as I had always done and call my home landline number I get the failed call message and the landline goes dead. Likewise if I'm surfing, web pages will stop loading, so when it says "no service" for me it's not just telling me the wrong thing, it's telling me the right thing.
Comments
http://vimeo.com/12858526
Looks like Ireland's not the only one infuriated by the iPhone 4 antenna "calamity".
http://vimeo.com/12858526
Lmfao!!!
Looks like Ireland's not the only one infuriated by the iPhone 4 antenna "calamity".
http://vimeo.com/12858526
I'm still crying! Brilliantly done.
Ok, enough with the abuse.
Hey, just trying to get you out of your self-imposed funk.
I think everyone here would just like the old Ireland back.
That's not strictly true. You can have a design flaw that doesn't exhibit itself on all units or in all conditions.
As stated, I don't see how that is possible. If it's a design flaw causing a "short circuit" when you touch the other antenna then the operating band in use or RF signal strength would not affect it's ability to "short circuit" simply because the antenna is exposed.
I've previously stated that I can see an issue with the Triquint chip, which in itself could be a flawed design that is causing problems with certain spectrums and signal strengths. This, however, would not a design flaw of the iPhone, but of the TriQuint chip. I think this is a worst case scenario which makes it less likely to be the issue but this would be a reason to recall the iPhone 4.
I think everyone here would just like the old Ireland back.
Agreed.
When you start getting compared to TeckStud and you have SpotOn/MacTripper in your corner (until he got banned, yet again) you need ask yourself if you're being reasonable.
Hopefully in the next couple days things will be back to normal and I'm sure by the time the iPhone 4 hits the shores of Ireland proper he'll be first in line and first to agree this is the by far the best iPhone Apple has ever made and the best smartphone money can buy.
As stated, I don't see how that is possible.
Sure...take for example the design flaw in the space shuttle SRB...it only happened in specific circumstances (cold weather). Burn though didn't happen every time...but it was still a design flaw in the SRB.
If it's a design flaw causing a "short circuit" when you touch the other antenna then the operating band in use or RF signal strength would not affect it's ability to "short circuit" simply because the antenna is exposed.
Unless heat, humidity, skin salinity, signal strength, frequency, distance to tower, etc affects the outcome. Could be the designed mitigation for RF interference doesn't work in all real world conditions.
That said, the most consistent way for me to reproduce this bug is the use a penny. My palm isn't conductive enough to reliably reproduce the effect.
Sure...take for example the design flaw in the space shuttle SRB...it only happened in specific circumstances (cold weather). Burn though didn't happen every time...but it was still a design flaw in the SRB.
Unless heat, humidity, skin salinity, signal strength, frequency, distance to tower, etc affects the outcome. Could be the designed mitigation for RF interference doesn't work in all real world conditions.
That said, the most consistent way for me to reproduce this bug is the use a penny. My palm isn't conductive enough to reliably reproduce the effect.
Yet, I can cover all the scenarios you mention and still not recreate the issue. I've gone so far as to use wet hands dipped in salty water as well as use conductive metals to bridge the gap. Therefore it cannot possibly be design flaw causing a short circuit from using an external antenna. That is busted. If Apple recalls every single iPhone 4 and comes out with a design that encases the antenna in plastic or rubber, perhaps by offering free Bumpers to all iPhone 4 users, then I'll concede that it's a design flaw that affects all iPhone 4s.
Yet, I can cover all the scenarios you mention and still not recreate the issue. I've gone so far as to use wet hands dipped in salty water as well as use conductive metals to bridge the gap. Therefore it cannot possibly be design flaw causing a short circuit from using an external antenna. That is busted. If Apple recalls every single iPhone 4 and comes out with a design that encases the antenna in plastic or rubber, perhaps by offering free Bumpers to all iPhone 4 users, then I'll concede that it's a design flaw that affects all iPhone 4s.
I don't think it's really possible to reproduce this issue reliably because there are too many variables. Manufacturing variances, changes in signal frequency, changes in interference...
Maybe the problem only occurs at a specific frequency or maybe only when there is a specific type of interference.
I am almost sure the issue is caused by standing waves which occur when the exposed antenna is held with bare hands. Apple can change the software to help filter out this type of interference. I think they can sort a lot of it out with software but I'm willing to bet there will always be some issues having the antenna exposed like this.
http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/27/...ue-stay-tuned/
Boy, Steve is taking some more big risks here with what is conceivably Apple's flagship product. I think he should let Apple PR and engineers handle this one.
I don't think it's really possible to reproduce this issue reliably because there are too many variables. Manufacturing variances, changes in signal frequency, changes in interference...
Maybe the problem only occurs at a specific frequency or maybe only when there is a specific type of interference.
I am almost sure the issue is caused by standing waves which occur when the exposed antenna is held with bare hands. Apple can change the software to help filter out this type of interference. I think they can sort a lot of it out with software but I'm willing to bet there will always be some issues having the antenna exposed like this.
Agreed.
When you start getting compared to TeckStud and you have SpotOn/MacTripper in your corner (until he got banned, yet again) you need ask yourself if you're being reasonable.
Hopefully in the next couple days things will be back to normal and I'm sure by the time the iPhone 4 hits the shores of Ireland proper he'll be first in line and first to agree this is the by far the best iPhone Apple has ever made and the best smartphone money can buy.
Things could get a little uglier before they get better. As much as I want the old Ireland back, we'll have to deal with this first and see what comes of it (if verified)
STAY TUNED. NO RECEPTION ISSUES.
http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/27/...ue-stay-tuned/
To determine whether this is just a problem with the software measurement of the signal strength, I tested the actual data throughput speed in both unheld and held states. The impact of holding the iPhone in your hand is SEVERE, cutting up/down speeds to a fraction of their unheld potential. Here are the results.
Maybe/hopefully this can be fixed in software, but it's not just about measurement in the UI, nor is it a typical issue that affects all phones.
Death grip issues aside (which are present on my shiny new iPhone 4 too), I find AT&T's speed test results pretty interesting. Here in the UK I get at best about half that on 3G (through O2's network).
AT&T it seems, aren't all bad then.
To members in the UK, is your iPhone 4 suffering from any of these problems?
Mine's fine if not even better than my 3G. I read a lot about these issues but I can honestly say all my iPhones have worked beautifully. The 3G is on O2, the 4 is on Vodafone and seems even better. Maybe due to the new antenna?
All these connection issues seem to be isolated to the US, well at least from my reading. Any feedback on UK iPhones would be great.
My UK iPhone 4 is on O2 and I can drop the reception from 5 bars of 3G to 1 bar of GPRS by holding the phone in a normal way. It takes a couple of minutes to completely deteriorate, but it usually gets there. Sometimes I've even managed to knock it offline completely.
Funny thing is I don't actually care that much. I just hold it in a different way, but then it mostly sits on my desk all day grabbing email, playing Audible books and podcasts, and then playing games and video on the train ride home.
I'm right handed but always hold phones in my left hand, then use my right hand to prod the touch screen. Isn't that how everyone uses them?
What if Apple purposely did this? So that they had a good reason to put out 4.01 mainly to stop the new loop holes found for jailbreaking etc.? Its a damn good reason to put out a iOS isnt it.......
Just something to think about.
I don't think it's really possible to reproduce this issue reliably because there are too many variables. Manufacturing variances, changes in signal frequency, changes in interference...
Maybe the problem only occurs at a specific frequency or maybe only when there is a specific type of interference.
I am almost sure the issue is caused by standing waves which occur when the exposed antenna is held with bare hands. Apple can change the software to help filter out this type of interference. I think they can sort a lot of it out with software but I'm willing to bet there will always be some issues having the antenna exposed like this.
1) But there are plenty of videos and pundits reporting that they CAN reproduce the this issue reliably simply by bridging the gap between the two antennas.
2) If it's a manufacturing variance then it's not a design issue of the issue. A design issue of the manufacturing process of that particulate line, now that is more likely which is why it's not occurring with all units.
3) I don't see how a RF signal variation would result in one unit causing a "short circuit" and another not causing a short circuit. They'll all using the same antenna for UMTS. I get no variation, not even a signal drop of one bar from bridging the gap with metal, with fingers or with fingers covered in salty water.
4) To restate, I haven't ruled out design flaw of a UMTS chip, but I have ruled out a design flaw from using an exposed antenna that causing a short circuit. If Apple issues a Bumper to every iPhone 4 to be used as standard procedure or recalls every iPhone 4 to be redesigned with an insulated case then I'll gladly admit I was wrong right after I sell all my Apple stock.
http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/27/...ue-stay-tuned/
Boy, Steve is taking some more big risks here with what is conceivably Apple's flagship product. I think he should let Apple PR and engineers handle this one.
Things could get a little uglier before they get better. As much as I want the old Ireland back, we'll have to deal with this first and see what comes of it (if verified)
STAY TUNED. NO RECEPTION ISSUES.
http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/27/...ue-stay-tuned/
As much as I dislike the emails from Steve, as previously noted, this one is at least a good email. Meaning, instead of telling the customer they are doing something wrong he's simply saying the problem isn't poor reception, but something else causing poor reception or at least the appearance of poor reception. Whether this is accurate or not is another story.
We do something similar. We call it “clouding.” Right now, for example, we’ve sent out the following messages about iPhone 4 and the antenna issues:
1. All mobile phones have this problem.
2. Our mobile phone does not have this problem.
You see how this works? These two statements cannot both be true.
Yet we’ve said both of them. And now you don’t know what to believe.
Ask any psychologist what happens to people when they get confused. Their heart rate goes up. Their skin temperature rises. Adrenaline starts to flow.
They feel desperate, and scared, as if they’ve fallen out of a boat and now they’re getting tossed by waves and they’re maybe going to drown.
Now all you have to do is reach out with some kind of certainty, and no matter how obviously untrue it might be, people will latch onto it.
This whole rumor, true or not, really speaks to the last two sentences.
No doubt, some people are experiencing real problems - and those people should take the problem phone back to Apple and get it exchanged for a new one.
But the real clueless people are like ones here who go to the Apple store and squeeze 12 phones to watch the display change without bothering to see if it really affected the devices performance. I have a 3Gs and an iPhone 4. They both show the screwy meter thing when gripped, yet they both work just fine even when the display says "No Service".
That sure as heck sounds like a software bug to me.
Again, if you are one of the minority who is having an actual hardware issue - take the phone back to Apple. They will fix or replace it. Stuff happens. But moaning on the Internet won't solve anything other than furthering the noise level.
I don't have to respect people who are flat out wrong because they take information from the Internet, misconstrue it and then further repeat the bad information. And disagreeing with someone doesn't equate a lack of respect either - it's not a binary proposition.
Let's look at it a different way. If this wasn't Gizmodo just starting more $h!t but a sincere and real problem - say a systemic design flaw as some have hysterically claimed in this and other forums - with over a million sales, don't you think actual iPhone 4 owners would be coming out of the wood work in droves?
If it was really a systemic design flaw, you would see major news organizations reporting it with their own research, interviews and follow up - instead of pointing to "online reports".
We don't see any of that. It's another internet tempest in the teapot. It's like the game telephone - but on steroids because there are tens of thousands of people with nothing better to do than endlessly gossip.
The level of furor over this is what is ignorant. For the vast majority of people, this is a total non-issue. It more than likely is EXACTLY what Apple claimed it is - a software issue. I realize conspiracy theories and "Apple is Dooooomed!" are far more entertaining, but still believe that Occam's razor applies far more often than not (and certainly in this case as well).
I don't think Apple would suffer too badly even if it couldn't fix the problem. Most people will figure ways around it because they like the phone too much to want to swap and most people will use a case. Personally, even without a case I won't be swapping phones to Android or whatever. At first it was pretty tricky holding the phone differently but I've since found ways, especially using my left index finger or thumb resting above the screen at the top of the phone that really feels ok, it's not what I would have chosen but it doesn't bother me now.
When I do hold the phone as I had always done and call my home landline number I get the failed call message and the landline goes dead. Likewise if I'm surfing, web pages will stop loading, so when it says "no service" for me it's not just telling me the wrong thing, it's telling me the right thing.
Ridiculously spot on, and reflects pretty much everything in this thread.
This whole rumor, true or not, really speaks to the last two sentences.
HAHA brilliant. And he tied in the "there are no reception issues" thing so quickly into his posts.