BTW, how many phones do you know that can drop connections, lower voice quality, and drastically lower data download speeds by simply touching one small spot on the phone with just one small fingertip ? And this small spot is where many people naturally hold a phone. It's because you are detuning the iPhone 4 cellular antenna by touching the wi-fi antenna at the same time. I believe this is a first for a cell phone due to Apple's antenna's design. It's not antenna attenuation that Apple wants us to believe.
Perhaps we should all sit back take some expert, although not with the new iPhone until the author gets one, advice:
Quote:
Now I want to rant a bit about the "experimental method" people have been using. The iPhone 4 has been out for roughly 24 hours before people were publishing the results of "tests" proving that it had inferior performance. At my company, when I get to hook my fancy laboratory gear up to my client's equipment in very controlled circumstances I can't do it that fast. Folks, there are a couple of reasons that you need to give this product some time before jumping to conclusions.
And that is only what I have been saying all along.
Perhaps we should all sit back take some expert, although not with the new iPhone until the author gets one, advice:
And that is only what I have been saying all along.
Oh, I read it. Several times in fact. The problem is Apple's denial a problem exists. In fact in a sense, they acknowledge the issue by saying avoid touching this spot or get a case.
BTW, how many phones do you know that can drop connections, lower voice quality, and drastically lower data download speeds by simply touching one small spot on the phone with just one small fingertip ? And this small spot is where many people naturally hold a phone. It's because you are detuning the iPhone 4 cellular antenna by touching the wi-fi antenna at the same time. I believe this is a first for a cell phone due to Apple's antenna's design. It's not antenna attenuation that Apple wants us to believe.
OK! I found the fix! I found the fix for 4G signal loss! Here is the way to use the phone so you don't "hold it wrong" Straight from Apple Discussions!
The problem we have here is that most of the comments are hearsay. In fact, most of the complaints here are made by people who don't have an iPhone 4, including two of the most vocal anti-Apple members who have posted over 1/8 of the 240 blogs.
That's an odd statement. I can reproduce the problem easily. I just have to stand in a place with slightly imperfect reception (inside any building, for the most part). Start a call, hold an index finger in the right place. Voice will begin to break up immediately, and the call will drop 10-15 seconds later.
Data does the same thing.
A case fixes it.
This isn't just a software bar scaling issue, it is a critically nasty design flaw with a fairly simple (although I've yet to find an iphone 4 case I like). They MIGHT be able to fix it in software via some kind of algorithm that detects the issue and adjusts the radios to compensate. Maybe.
c. If you are experiencing this on your iPhone 3GS, avoid covering the bottom-right side with your hand.
Sweet touch. They want to make it appear this is a common issue in many phones. Trouble is, it appears the iPhone 4 is the only phone where one simple fingertip touch in one small spot will wreck complete havoc on the antennas. I don't believe the iPhone 3GS (which I own) or any other phone is anywhere near that sensitive. Why ? Because the iPhone 4 is the only phone that has two external antennas that can be touched together when naturally holding the phone.
That's an odd statement. I can reproduce the problem easily. I just have to stand in a place with slightly imperfect reception (inside any building, for the most part). Start a call, hold an index finger in the right place. Voice will begin to break up immediately, and the call will drop 10-15 seconds later.
Data does the same thing.
A case fixes it.
This isn't just a software bar scaling issue, it is a critically nasty design flaw with a fairly simple (although I've yet to find an iphone 4 case I like). They MIGHT be able to fix it in software via some kind of algorithm that detects the issue and adjusts the radios to compensate. Maybe.
I never ever said it doesn't happen!
The issue is that the same assholes, i.e., they don't have the device, profess to be experts. They highjack the thread and anybody that says anything contrary to their tripe is defiled.
Take a look at the list of people on the site at anyone time. You are lucky if more that a dozen or so are there. How can one determine the extent of the problem or consider it a problem when the same, or even two, dozen or so souls who actually have the iPhone are actually reporting it.
Just because you can produce appears not to represent the norm. And certainly one can't judge by the people that visit here.
Oh, I read it. Several times in fact. The problem is Apple's denial a problem exists. In fact in a sense, they acknowledge the issue by saying avoid touching this spot or get a case.
Not such thing. Jobs or no one else from Apple has denied or confirmed anything.
Not such thing. Jobs or no one else from Apple has denied or confirmed anything.
Hmmm, so Apple's official response of avoid touching that spot or buy a case isn't confirming there is an issue with touching that spot ? No other phone is that sensitive to a simple touch of one fingertip.
It is not all that obvious. We know that the white version is delayed because of manufacturing
problems. We also know that many phones shipped with the screen bonding substance insufficiently cured, causing yellowish blotches on some screens. We don't know how many lots of black iPhones were rejected, because of spot checks. We don't know how extensive and well designed the final tests were. Finally, a certain portion of all manufacturing runs makes it out the door with defects. We don't have accurate statistics on the prevalence of the issue for iPhones, so
we can't say with certainty that it is excessive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodar
I guess being a genius has it's drawbacks.
When you make a non-conductive finish, the out-going test would be a resistance measurement step prior to going into final assembly. You NEVER ever (EVER!) allow something like a human's 'opinion' ("Gee, it looks like it had that step taken") bypass a test. No, you scan the Serial Number and measure the resistance on a go/nogo basis. Measure resistance, if less than 100K ohms = fail.
That way, you now only KNOW that the bezels are coated, you know the measured value of the resistance and to some measure, the quality of the coating. If a passing value is 101 Kohms and you are consistently reading 500K - 1 Meg ohm - well, then you know you have a good insulation. If you consistently read 102K; then you know your process is marginal.
Pretty simple stuff, actually.
And how does any of that refute anything of quinney's? He never said anything about human testing. Are you positive that your automated conductance test has to be completed on fully cured bonding? Or is it that the far more likely case, the automated lot testing is done after a specified time where the electrical and adhesive properties have adequately set even though the VOCs haven't all evaporated?
It is not uncommon for manufacturing processes to pass testing with some pre-known cosmetic changes still in process, such as off gassing and final adhesive curing. Many epoxies pass strength and hardness tests within minutes, yet continue to cure for days and display minor cosmetic changes in that time which have no effect on the passing rate during the testing.
It's far more likely some production engineer under-estimated the storage and shipping time that would be available for the bonding substance to clear up. So production got pushed to the consumer a couple days faster than the necessary cosmetic curing time. Not first string varsity work, but not end of the world either.
Hmmm, so Apple's official response of avoid touching that spot or buy a case isn't confirming there is an issue with touching that spot ? No other phone is that sensitive to a simple touch of one fingertip.
Actually at my desk my 3GS. Signal strength inside sucks. It will register data, but not calls when it is in my pocket, get data and calls when sitting on my desk - until I touch the black part on the back. I've had the problem for almost two years and have always known it's a combination of signal strength and body contact. Anyone that has ever adjusted TV rabbit ears or a portable radio antenna knows this implicitly, why on Earth would it have changed with phones?
Actually at my desk my 3GS. Signal strength inside sucks. It will register data, but not calls when it is in my pocket, get data and calls when sitting on my desk - until I touch the black part on the back. I've had the problem for almost two years and have always known it's a combination of signal strength and body contact. Anyone that has ever adjusted TV rabbit ears or a portable radio antenna knows this implicitly, why on Earth would it have changed with phones?
Problem is you already stated your signal sucks at your location. And of course putting it in your pocket, next to your entire body makes it even worse. That's true of most any cell phone. But when you have a good signal, a simple touch of one fingertip in one critical spot does not wreck havoc on a 3GS. At least it doesn't on my 3GS, or any other phone I owned. A completely different scenario then the iPhone 4 issue.
Hmmm, so Apple's official response of avoid touching that spot or buy a case isn't confirming there is an issue with touching that spot ? No other phone is that sensitive to a simple touch of one fingertip.
So if the answer to your question is yes, then they weren't denying it.
Like every issue that is raised on Apple's products, they immediately go into investigate mode. If you think that Apple is not sensitive to what is being purported you really have a lot to learn. Heck, you never get satisfaction rates in the upper 90's by not doing so.
What Apple doesn't do is rush in at the drop of a hat. If there is an issue, they look for the root cause. They will fix it or replace it and virtually in every case I have seen since 1984, the only people that still complain are those that never had the problem or those who wished they had the product to get the problem.
How anybody can listen to a few jerks keep telling what the problem is and how to fix it while disregarding the experts who say they can't without more information is beyond me.
So if the answer to your question is yes, then they weren't denying it.
Like every issue that is raised on Apple's products, they immediately go into investigate mode. If you think that Apple is not sensitive to what is being purported you really have a lot to learn. Heck, you never get satisfaction rates in the upper 90's by not doing so.
What Apple doesn't do is rush in at the drop of a hat. If there is an issue, they look for the root cause. They will fix it or replace it and virtually in every case I have seen since 1984, the only people that still complain are those that never had the problem or those who wished they had the product to get the problem.
How anybody can listen to a few jerks keep telling what the problem is and how to fix it while disregarding the experts who say they can't without more information is beyond me.
Apple is already telling their support they won't fix it. They are telling their customers to avoid touching that spot or buy a case. That it's a normal condition. That's their official stance. No fix. No warranty service. Did you not see the leaked Apple memo to it's employees ?
Problem is you already stated your signal sucks. And of course putting it in your pocket, next to your entire body makes it even worse. But when you have a good signal, a simple touch of one fingertip in one critical spot does not wreck havoc on a 3GS. At least it doesn't on mine. A completely different scenario then the iPhone 4 issue.
I agree....My 3GS never had a problem......I could hold it anyway I wanted and never lost a signal or dropped a call.
I can hold my 4G in my hand EXACTLY like Steve Jobs demonstrated in his keynote presentation and the 4G will gradually loose bars then go to "No Service".
I didn't have this problem with my 3GS or my sons 3G only on the 4G.
Apple is already telling their support they won't fix it. They are telling their customers to avoid touching that spot or buy a case. That it's a normal condition. That's their official stance. No fix. No warranty service. Did you not see the leaked Apple memo to it's employees ?
hold on...wait a minute.
Do you know for sure what Apple's Official stance is?
How do you know? Did they have a press release with that info?
Is it on their website? Do you have official Apple documentation proving it?
How do you know the memo that was posted was real?
Beacsue someone posted on a blog that they got it from an apple support person?
That does not make it offcial! :-) That makes it very dubious.......
It's from a neutral party. Anyone and everyone who has either had problems or is concerned about them should read this before doing any more posting on the subject. It is a fine overview with links for those who want geeky detail. Not all of it is new to this discussion, but it does pull it all together authoritatively IMHO.
If, after reading it, you think I am overstating its relevance and usefulness, please post a response so that others may benefit from your take on it, and perhaps not waste their time going to it.
Do you know for sure what Apple's Official stance is?
How do you know? Did they have a press release with that info?
Is it on their website? Do you have official Apple documentation proving it?
How do you know the memo that was posted was real?
Beacsue someone posted on a blog that they got it from an apple support person?
That does not make it offcial! :-) That makes it very dubious.......
So now you are claiming that memo is not real. Fair enough, possible. But go the official apple forums. Their customers are claiming they are receiving the exact same response from Apple as stated in this memo. Made up stories and posts too ? Possible. But there is enough writing on the wall for me.
Comments
BTW, how many phones do you know that can drop connections, lower voice quality, and drastically lower data download speeds by simply touching one small spot on the phone with just one small fingertip ? And this small spot is where many people naturally hold a phone. It's because you are detuning the iPhone 4 cellular antenna by touching the wi-fi antenna at the same time. I believe this is a first for a cell phone due to Apple's antenna's design. It's not antenna attenuation that Apple wants us to believe.
The below article is very informative:
http://www.antennasys.com/antennasys...like-this.html
Did you bother to read it yourself.
Perhaps we should all sit back take some expert, although not with the new iPhone until the author gets one, advice: And that is only what I have been saying all along.
Did you bother to read it yourself.
Perhaps we should all sit back take some expert, although not with the new iPhone until the author gets one, advice:
And that is only what I have been saying all along.
Oh, I read it. Several times in fact. The problem is Apple's denial a problem exists. In fact in a sense, they acknowledge the issue by saying avoid touching this spot or get a case.
BTW, how many phones do you know that can drop connections, lower voice quality, and drastically lower data download speeds by simply touching one small spot on the phone with just one small fingertip ? And this small spot is where many people naturally hold a phone. It's because you are detuning the iPhone 4 cellular antenna by touching the wi-fi antenna at the same time. I believe this is a first for a cell phone due to Apple's antenna's design. It's not antenna attenuation that Apple wants us to believe.
The below article is very informative:
http://www.antennasys.com/antennasys...like-this.html
OK! I found the fix! I found the fix for 4G signal loss! Here is the way to use the phone so you don't "hold it wrong" Straight from Apple Discussions!
http://discussions.apple.com/thread....4921&tstart=15
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/...ng-procedures/
The problem we have here is that most of the comments are hearsay. In fact, most of the complaints here are made by people who don't have an iPhone 4, including two of the most vocal anti-Apple members who have posted over 1/8 of the 240 blogs.
That's an odd statement. I can reproduce the problem easily. I just have to stand in a place with slightly imperfect reception (inside any building, for the most part). Start a call, hold an index finger in the right place. Voice will begin to break up immediately, and the call will drop 10-15 seconds later.
Data does the same thing.
A case fixes it.
This isn't just a software bar scaling issue, it is a critically nasty design flaw with a fairly simple (although I've yet to find an iphone 4 case I like). They MIGHT be able to fix it in software via some kind of algorithm that detects the issue and adjusts the radios to compensate. Maybe.
Looks like Apple is taking the "Bad Cop" approach:
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/...ng-procedures/
I like how they added:
c. If you are experiencing this on your iPhone 3GS, avoid covering the bottom-right side with your hand.
Sweet touch. They want to make it appear this is a common issue in many phones. Trouble is, it appears the iPhone 4 is the only phone where one simple fingertip touch in one small spot will wreck complete havoc on the antennas. I don't believe the iPhone 3GS (which I own) or any other phone is anywhere near that sensitive. Why ? Because the iPhone 4 is the only phone that has two external antennas that can be touched together when naturally holding the phone.
That's an odd statement. I can reproduce the problem easily. I just have to stand in a place with slightly imperfect reception (inside any building, for the most part). Start a call, hold an index finger in the right place. Voice will begin to break up immediately, and the call will drop 10-15 seconds later.
Data does the same thing.
A case fixes it.
This isn't just a software bar scaling issue, it is a critically nasty design flaw with a fairly simple (although I've yet to find an iphone 4 case I like). They MIGHT be able to fix it in software via some kind of algorithm that detects the issue and adjusts the radios to compensate. Maybe.
I never ever said it doesn't happen!
The issue is that the same assholes, i.e., they don't have the device, profess to be experts. They highjack the thread and anybody that says anything contrary to their tripe is defiled.
Take a look at the list of people on the site at anyone time. You are lucky if more that a dozen or so are there. How can one determine the extent of the problem or consider it a problem when the same, or even two, dozen or so souls who actually have the iPhone are actually reporting it.
Just because you can produce appears not to represent the norm. And certainly one can't judge by the people that visit here.
Oh, I read it. Several times in fact. The problem is Apple's denial a problem exists. In fact in a sense, they acknowledge the issue by saying avoid touching this spot or get a case.
Not such thing. Jobs or no one else from Apple has denied or confirmed anything.
Not such thing. Jobs or no one else from Apple has denied or confirmed anything.
Hmmm, so Apple's official response of avoid touching that spot or buy a case isn't confirming there is an issue with touching that spot ? No other phone is that sensitive to a simple touch of one fingertip.
It is not all that obvious. We know that the white version is delayed because of manufacturing
problems. We also know that many phones shipped with the screen bonding substance insufficiently cured, causing yellowish blotches on some screens. We don't know how many lots of black iPhones were rejected, because of spot checks. We don't know how extensive and well designed the final tests were. Finally, a certain portion of all manufacturing runs makes it out the door with defects. We don't have accurate statistics on the prevalence of the issue for iPhones, so
we can't say with certainty that it is excessive.
I guess being a genius has it's drawbacks.
When you make a non-conductive finish, the out-going test would be a resistance measurement step prior to going into final assembly. You NEVER ever (EVER!) allow something like a human's 'opinion' ("Gee, it looks like it had that step taken") bypass a test. No, you scan the Serial Number and measure the resistance on a go/nogo basis. Measure resistance, if less than 100K ohms = fail.
That way, you now only KNOW that the bezels are coated, you know the measured value of the resistance and to some measure, the quality of the coating. If a passing value is 101 Kohms and you are consistently reading 500K - 1 Meg ohm - well, then you know you have a good insulation. If you consistently read 102K; then you know your process is marginal.
Pretty simple stuff, actually.
And how does any of that refute anything of quinney's? He never said anything about human testing. Are you positive that your automated conductance test has to be completed on fully cured bonding? Or is it that the far more likely case, the automated lot testing is done after a specified time where the electrical and adhesive properties have adequately set even though the VOCs haven't all evaporated?
It is not uncommon for manufacturing processes to pass testing with some pre-known cosmetic changes still in process, such as off gassing and final adhesive curing. Many epoxies pass strength and hardness tests within minutes, yet continue to cure for days and display minor cosmetic changes in that time which have no effect on the passing rate during the testing.
It's far more likely some production engineer under-estimated the storage and shipping time that would be available for the bonding substance to clear up. So production got pushed to the consumer a couple days faster than the necessary cosmetic curing time. Not first string varsity work, but not end of the world either.
Hmmm, so Apple's official response of avoid touching that spot or buy a case isn't confirming there is an issue with touching that spot ? No other phone is that sensitive to a simple touch of one fingertip.
Actually at my desk my 3GS. Signal strength inside sucks. It will register data, but not calls when it is in my pocket, get data and calls when sitting on my desk - until I touch the black part on the back. I've had the problem for almost two years and have always known it's a combination of signal strength and body contact. Anyone that has ever adjusted TV rabbit ears or a portable radio antenna knows this implicitly, why on Earth would it have changed with phones?
Actually at my desk my 3GS. Signal strength inside sucks. It will register data, but not calls when it is in my pocket, get data and calls when sitting on my desk - until I touch the black part on the back. I've had the problem for almost two years and have always known it's a combination of signal strength and body contact. Anyone that has ever adjusted TV rabbit ears or a portable radio antenna knows this implicitly, why on Earth would it have changed with phones?
Problem is you already stated your signal sucks at your location. And of course putting it in your pocket, next to your entire body makes it even worse. That's true of most any cell phone. But when you have a good signal, a simple touch of one fingertip in one critical spot does not wreck havoc on a 3GS. At least it doesn't on my 3GS, or any other phone I owned. A completely different scenario then the iPhone 4 issue.
Hmmm, so Apple's official response of avoid touching that spot or buy a case isn't confirming there is an issue with touching that spot ? No other phone is that sensitive to a simple touch of one fingertip.
So if the answer to your question is yes, then they weren't denying it.
Like every issue that is raised on Apple's products, they immediately go into investigate mode. If you think that Apple is not sensitive to what is being purported you really have a lot to learn. Heck, you never get satisfaction rates in the upper 90's by not doing so.
What Apple doesn't do is rush in at the drop of a hat. If there is an issue, they look for the root cause. They will fix it or replace it and virtually in every case I have seen since 1984, the only people that still complain are those that never had the problem or those who wished they had the product to get the problem.
How anybody can listen to a few jerks keep telling what the problem is and how to fix it while disregarding the experts who say they can't without more information is beyond me.
So if the answer to your question is yes, then they weren't denying it.
Like every issue that is raised on Apple's products, they immediately go into investigate mode. If you think that Apple is not sensitive to what is being purported you really have a lot to learn. Heck, you never get satisfaction rates in the upper 90's by not doing so.
What Apple doesn't do is rush in at the drop of a hat. If there is an issue, they look for the root cause. They will fix it or replace it and virtually in every case I have seen since 1984, the only people that still complain are those that never had the problem or those who wished they had the product to get the problem.
How anybody can listen to a few jerks keep telling what the problem is and how to fix it while disregarding the experts who say they can't without more information is beyond me.
Apple is already telling their support they won't fix it. They are telling their customers to avoid touching that spot or buy a case. That it's a normal condition. That's their official stance. No fix. No warranty service. Did you not see the leaked Apple memo to it's employees ?
Problem is you already stated your signal sucks. And of course putting it in your pocket, next to your entire body makes it even worse. But when you have a good signal, a simple touch of one fingertip in one critical spot does not wreck havoc on a 3GS. At least it doesn't on mine. A completely different scenario then the iPhone 4 issue.
I agree....My 3GS never had a problem......I could hold it anyway I wanted and never lost a signal or dropped a call.
I can hold my 4G in my hand EXACTLY like Steve Jobs demonstrated in his keynote presentation and the 4G will gradually loose bars then go to "No Service".
I didn't have this problem with my 3GS or my sons 3G only on the 4G.
Apple is already telling their support they won't fix it. They are telling their customers to avoid touching that spot or buy a case. That it's a normal condition. That's their official stance. No fix. No warranty service. Did you not see the leaked Apple memo to it's employees ?
hold on...wait a minute.
Do you know for sure what Apple's Official stance is?
How do you know? Did they have a press release with that info?
Is it on their website? Do you have official Apple documentation proving it?
How do you know the memo that was posted was real?
Beacsue someone posted on a blog that they got it from an apple support person?
That does not make it offcial! :-) That makes it very dubious.......
http://www.networkworld.com/news/201...p.html?hpg1=bn
It's from a neutral party. Anyone and everyone who has either had problems or is concerned about them should read this before doing any more posting on the subject. It is a fine overview with links for those who want geeky detail. Not all of it is new to this discussion, but it does pull it all together authoritatively IMHO.
If, after reading it, you think I am overstating its relevance and usefulness, please post a response so that others may benefit from your take on it, and perhaps not waste their time going to it.
hold on...wait a minute.
Do you know for sure what Apple's Official stance is?
How do you know? Did they have a press release with that info?
Is it on their website? Do you have official Apple documentation proving it?
How do you know the memo that was posted was real?
Beacsue someone posted on a blog that they got it from an apple support person?
That does not make it offcial! :-) That makes it very dubious.......
So now you are claiming that memo is not real. Fair enough, possible. But go the official apple forums. Their customers are claiming they are receiving the exact same response from Apple as stated in this memo. Made up stories and posts too ? Possible. But there is enough writing on the wall for me.
Is this a sign of things to come?
F me brucep is in fine, fine form this past few days. I want that shit he's smoking, man. I want it bad.
Me too! brucep, stop bogarting! Pass it around, dude!