It is inferior, in a way that can be easily remedied at very little cost. An invisible insulating coating would do the trick, as shown by the ZAGG videos.
In that way the design is flawed.
'Inferior' is vague and loaded. If there was a 'perfect' phone on the market then, maybe, but all phones have weaknesses. But to call a phone inferior because of one feature is silly. The question of
inferiority is subjective eg the iPhone might be inferior to me because it has no physical buttons.
That's a far cry from any natural hold. Nor does it come close the one finger on the seam. The Galaxy S there is suffering from attenuation from the hand covering the antenna, not from physical contact with the antenna like on the iPhone4.
Show me a video of any of the phones Apple has demoed dropping bars with a single finger touching it. The flaw in Apple's reasoning is the fact that they don't address the skin touching the antenna issue. Yes, the other phones suffer from attenuation when a death grip is applied, but they don't suffer when you touch it..
Now we know that this whole debacle is nearing an end when you post comments like this.
Why on earth would you hold one finger over the seam of an iPhone antenna when making a call other than to prove a point?
If I sit in my car and rev the nuts off it ill blow the engine up. Why would I want to do that when all I want to do is drive it. I know it's not the best analogy but the point is you can break anything if you really want to.
Aren't we all bored of this by now? I wish Apple would reject a high profile app or change the iPhone developer EULA so the drama queens would have something new to rage about. This material is old and no longer entertaining.
Because it's unnecessary. Because this whole issue is based on hysteria and those with vested interests trying to whip up hysteria. If you hold your phone, any phone, you'll lose some signal.
But, if it's that important to you, feel free to go conduct some tests on your own.
The degree to which signal is lost is not important? The tests that have been linked to here show differring signal loss amongst these phones. Let's say the Nokia loses twice as much (as reflected in db), wouldn't that suggest the phone would lose signal more quickly than the competitor in a low signal environment, or lose signal while the competitor might not at all?
They only had one simple thing to do!!! Solve the shit antenna design and ship it, but NO, Apple didn't want to show any money loss tho their shareholders, they got a stupid and cheap rubber cover to offer, are Apple nuts? Some years ago they change the plastic of my macbook because it got dark, they done it free of charge!!!! And what stupid video is this from the Nokia N97, Who holds the phone like that!???? People are not blind!!! In this idiot video even the user hardly can press the button to keep the phone backlight on!! I want an Apple with quality, and Mac OS X faster than UBUNTU, right now Snow Leopard is damn slow compared to the FREE UBUNTU!!!!
The degree to which signal is lost is not important? The tests that have been linked to here show differring signal loss amongst these phones. Let's say the Nokia loses twice as much (as reflected in db), wouldn't that suggest the phone would lose signal more quickly than the competitor in a low signal environment, or lose signal while the competitor might not at all?
As indicated, if it's important to you to know that, go ahead and conduct the tests. I don't think there's any point in investing all that effort in it.
What we do know is that all phones lose signal when held. That there are various parlor tricks that can be performed with any of them. We also know from the AnandTech tests that the iP4 has signal and can make and hold on to calls in areas where the 3GS could not. It might be interesting to know how other phones compare to that, but what we do know is that the iP4 actually works pretty well, despite the misrepresentations intended to make us think otherwise, and that's really all that matters, unless you are planning to base your choice of phone solely on signal strength in various situations. But, if you do, don't complain to us if your phone doesn't do anything else well.
Ok, one video. How many more reports are there of a single finger dropping the signal to nothing? Like most iPhone 4 owners, I cannot recreate this issue.
Good for you. The guy was just saying he never saw it before so I showed him. It wasn't a statement as to how many are affected.
Not quite. It was stated that it's under 1 more calls per hundred so safe to assume it's probably in the area of .75-1 more dropped calls. The said drop rate for the 3GS has been around 2%. That gives an assumed drop rate of 2.75-3% for the iPhone 4.
In it's January quarterly report AT&T stated an average drop call rate for all 3G phones models to be 0.91% which gives the iPhone 4 a minimum of 3X the drop rate of their average and it's safe to say with basic math that the iPhone itself is bringing that average up so the rate of dropped calls would be 3-4X higher than most other phones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MomentsofSanity
If a phone goes from dropping 2 calls per hundred to dropping 2.75-3 calls per hundred that's an increase of almost 50%. How's that insignificant?
Anyone who honestly believes that the iPhone 3G or 3GS only drops 2-3 calls out of 100 has clearly never used an iPhone on AT&T's network before the iPhone 4. That figure is totally bogus. Dropping 20 out of 100 calls would be a more realistic figure based on real-world experience. So the idea that the iPhone 4's 1 extra dropped call per 100 represents a 50 or even 100% increase in dropped calls is absurd. No iPhone model ever, ever dropped only one call per 100 on AT&T's network.
Without the real numbers, not the very approximate numbers AT&T allowed to be release, one cannot say whether the dropped call difference is significant or not. all that can be said is that it's not very big.
That's kind if my point. People are posting snap shots and video of other phones showing a drop in the signal bars and stating its no different. Its arbitrary at best. There's no demonstration of parity between how these phones visually represet signal loss.
What we do know is the industry average for dropped calls by 3 phones and AT&T's average rate. We only know from Apple that the iPhone drops more than the 3GS and the 3GS dropped more than average.
If Apple wants to silence the critics give the true rate of dropped calls. They know it. AT&T knows it.
I can't replicate a signal drop on my iPhone 4 at all. And these videos prove that the antenna issue isn't unique to the iPhone 4, which means the whole iPhone 4 antenna problems argument is bogus. It isn't an iPhone 4 problem. It's a smartphone problem, or possibly even a cellphone problem. The new iPhone design just made it easier to document.
I think it also proves how powerful some of these blogs have become and how tribal we really are.
Apple is causing a lot of pain right now and those that don't like it are trying to get even. But the cult of Mac is strong my friend and they don't like it.
When the first iPod came out I bought one. There was around 6 million dedicated Mac dudes around at the time. It was Mac only. iTunes was Mac only. We were a small happy community until they rode into town LOL.
Good for you. The guy was just saying he never saw it before so I showed him. It wasn't a statement as to how many are affected.
I was "the guy" who asked. My point being, to my knowledge only a single case exists where the signal can be killed with a fingertip, yet that scenario continues to be thrown around as if it's true for every iPhone 4; fact is, it's not even true for the iPhone 4's who can replicate the "death grip", which in itself seems to be a rare find.
That's kind if my point. People are posting snap shots and video of other phones showing a drop in the signal bars and stating its no different. Its arbitrary at best. There's no demonstration of parity between how these phones visually represet signal loss.
What we do know is the industry average for dropped calls by 3 phones and AT&T's average rate. We only know from Apple that the iPhone drops more than the 3GS and the 3GS dropped more than average.
If Apple wants to silence the critics give the true rate of dropped calls. They know it. AT&T knows it.
If you watched the press conference, you would know that AT&T considers that data a trade secret, and would not allow Apple to release it. They were only allowed to say what the said.
Anyone who honestly believes that the iPhone 3G or 3GS only drops 2-3 calls out of 100 has clearly never used an iPhone on AT&T's network before the iPhone 4. That figure is totally bogus. Dropping 20 out of 100 calls would be a more realistic figure based on real-world experience. So the idea that the iPhone 4's 1 extra dropped call per 100 represents a 50 or even 100% increase in dropped calls is absurd. No iPhone model ever, ever dropped only one call per 100 on AT&T's network.
So what you are saying is that te iPhone is already 20x worse in reception than all the others given that the average for dropped calls on AT&T is less than 1 per hundred for 3G phones?
As indicated, if it's important to you to know that, go ahead and conduct the tests. I don't think there's any point in investing all that effort in it.
I asked a perfectly valid question. What's to invest? That's how you answer the question is the degree of signal loss important, especially in a low signal area? Seems we're getting beyond the "all phones do it" tripe and you want to bail. Your perrogative, of course, but it suggests you have an answer and don't want to share it.
Seriously though, I think I have benefited from this whole antennagate thing. The companies came out to bash at apple is the ones I will avoid in the future, since they are more comfortable with out right lying than to admit a general fault that is due to laws of physics.
Those other companies can't change the laws of physics either. But they still spread FUD about Apple.
I asked a perfectly valid question. What's to invest? That's how you answer the question is the degree of signal loss important, especially in a low signal area? Seems we're getting beyond the "all phones do it" tripe and you want to bail. Your perrogative, of course, but it suggests you have an answer and don't want to share it.
I will assert that I don't have the data you wish to have. Happy?
The simple fact is that all phones do do it. We all know that, even those who would prefer not to admit it.
Again, you are incorrect. All cell phones' antenna's, by rule of teh Physics of teh Universe, will be aversely affected by touching the phone pretty much anywhere with a single finger. Some spots are worse than others. Most manuals point out the bad spot.
It has been proven that the iP4 looses LESS bars than most phones.
It has the best reception of any phone on the market, as has been reported again and again by the reviewers. The Bloggers don't seem to read that stuff though, and instead they just make stuff up. I don't know how they sleep at night. Even the New York Times!!!!!
Comments
It is inferior, in a way that can be easily remedied at very little cost. An invisible insulating coating would do the trick, as shown by the ZAGG videos.
In that way the design is flawed.
'Inferior' is vague and loaded. If there was a 'perfect' phone on the market then, maybe, but all phones have weaknesses. But to call a phone inferior because of one feature is silly. The question of
inferiority is subjective eg the iPhone might be inferior to me because it has no physical buttons.
That's a far cry from any natural hold. Nor does it come close the one finger on the seam. The Galaxy S there is suffering from attenuation from the hand covering the antenna, not from physical contact with the antenna like on the iPhone4.
Show me a video of any of the phones Apple has demoed dropping bars with a single finger touching it. The flaw in Apple's reasoning is the fact that they don't address the skin touching the antenna issue. Yes, the other phones suffer from attenuation when a death grip is applied, but they don't suffer when you touch it..
Now we know that this whole debacle is nearing an end when you post comments like this.
Why on earth would you hold one finger over the seam of an iPhone antenna when making a call other than to prove a point?
If I sit in my car and rev the nuts off it ill blow the engine up. Why would I want to do that when all I want to do is drive it. I know it's not the best analogy but the point is you can break anything if you really want to.
Do you want to?
Because it's unnecessary. Because this whole issue is based on hysteria and those with vested interests trying to whip up hysteria. If you hold your phone, any phone, you'll lose some signal.
But, if it's that important to you, feel free to go conduct some tests on your own.
The degree to which signal is lost is not important? The tests that have been linked to here show differring signal loss amongst these phones. Let's say the Nokia loses twice as much (as reflected in db), wouldn't that suggest the phone would lose signal more quickly than the competitor in a low signal environment, or lose signal while the competitor might not at all?
The degree to which signal is lost is not important? The tests that have been linked to here show differring signal loss amongst these phones. Let's say the Nokia loses twice as much (as reflected in db), wouldn't that suggest the phone would lose signal more quickly than the competitor in a low signal environment, or lose signal while the competitor might not at all?
As indicated, if it's important to you to know that, go ahead and conduct the tests. I don't think there's any point in investing all that effort in it.
What we do know is that all phones lose signal when held. That there are various parlor tricks that can be performed with any of them. We also know from the AnandTech tests that the iP4 has signal and can make and hold on to calls in areas where the 3GS could not. It might be interesting to know how other phones compare to that, but what we do know is that the iP4 actually works pretty well, despite the misrepresentations intended to make us think otherwise, and that's really all that matters, unless you are planning to base your choice of phone solely on signal strength in various situations. But, if you do, don't complain to us if your phone doesn't do anything else well.
Ok, one video. How many more reports are there of a single finger dropping the signal to nothing? Like most iPhone 4 owners, I cannot recreate this issue.
Good for you. The guy was just saying he never saw it before so I showed him. It wasn't a statement as to how many are affected.
Not quite. It was stated that it's under 1 more calls per hundred so safe to assume it's probably in the area of .75-1 more dropped calls. The said drop rate for the 3GS has been around 2%. That gives an assumed drop rate of 2.75-3% for the iPhone 4.
In it's January quarterly report AT&T stated an average drop call rate for all 3G phones models to be 0.91% which gives the iPhone 4 a minimum of 3X the drop rate of their average and it's safe to say with basic math that the iPhone itself is bringing that average up so the rate of dropped calls would be 3-4X higher than most other phones.
If a phone goes from dropping 2 calls per hundred to dropping 2.75-3 calls per hundred that's an increase of almost 50%. How's that insignificant?
Anyone who honestly believes that the iPhone 3G or 3GS only drops 2-3 calls out of 100 has clearly never used an iPhone on AT&T's network before the iPhone 4. That figure is totally bogus. Dropping 20 out of 100 calls would be a more realistic figure based on real-world experience. So the idea that the iPhone 4's 1 extra dropped call per 100 represents a 50 or even 100% increase in dropped calls is absurd. No iPhone model ever, ever dropped only one call per 100 on AT&T's network.
Without the real numbers, not the very approximate numbers AT&T allowed to be release, one cannot say whether the dropped call difference is significant or not. all that can be said is that it's not very big.
That's kind if my point. People are posting snap shots and video of other phones showing a drop in the signal bars and stating its no different. Its arbitrary at best. There's no demonstration of parity between how these phones visually represet signal loss.
What we do know is the industry average for dropped calls by 3 phones and AT&T's average rate. We only know from Apple that the iPhone drops more than the 3GS and the 3GS dropped more than average.
If Apple wants to silence the critics give the true rate of dropped calls. They know it. AT&T knows it.
I can't replicate a signal drop on my iPhone 4 at all. And these videos prove that the antenna issue isn't unique to the iPhone 4, which means the whole iPhone 4 antenna problems argument is bogus. It isn't an iPhone 4 problem. It's a smartphone problem, or possibly even a cellphone problem. The new iPhone design just made it easier to document.
I think it also proves how powerful some of these blogs have become and how tribal we really are.
Apple is causing a lot of pain right now and those that don't like it are trying to get even. But the cult of Mac is strong my friend and they don't like it.
When the first iPod came out I bought one. There was around 6 million dedicated Mac dudes around at the time. It was Mac only. iTunes was Mac only. We were a small happy community until they rode into town LOL.
Good for you. The guy was just saying he never saw it before so I showed him. It wasn't a statement as to how many are affected.
And, the important point, which you mentioned, is that it's pre 4.0.1, and doesn't show what it appears to show, in terms of what's really going on.
Good for you. The guy was just saying he never saw it before so I showed him. It wasn't a statement as to how many are affected.
I was "the guy" who asked. My point being, to my knowledge only a single case exists where the signal can be killed with a fingertip, yet that scenario continues to be thrown around as if it's true for every iPhone 4; fact is, it's not even true for the iPhone 4's who can replicate the "death grip", which in itself seems to be a rare find.
That's kind if my point. People are posting snap shots and video of other phones showing a drop in the signal bars and stating its no different. Its arbitrary at best. There's no demonstration of parity between how these phones visually represet signal loss.
What we do know is the industry average for dropped calls by 3 phones and AT&T's average rate. We only know from Apple that the iPhone drops more than the 3GS and the 3GS dropped more than average.
If Apple wants to silence the critics give the true rate of dropped calls. They know it. AT&T knows it.
If you watched the press conference, you would know that AT&T considers that data a trade secret, and would not allow Apple to release it. They were only allowed to say what the said.
Anyone who honestly believes that the iPhone 3G or 3GS only drops 2-3 calls out of 100 has clearly never used an iPhone on AT&T's network before the iPhone 4. That figure is totally bogus. Dropping 20 out of 100 calls would be a more realistic figure based on real-world experience. So the idea that the iPhone 4's 1 extra dropped call per 100 represents a 50 or even 100% increase in dropped calls is absurd. No iPhone model ever, ever dropped only one call per 100 on AT&T's network.
So what you are saying is that te iPhone is already 20x worse in reception than all the others given that the average for dropped calls on AT&T is less than 1 per hundred for 3G phones?
As indicated, if it's important to you to know that, go ahead and conduct the tests. I don't think there's any point in investing all that effort in it.
I asked a perfectly valid question. What's to invest? That's how you answer the question is the degree of signal loss important, especially in a low signal area? Seems we're getting beyond the "all phones do it" tripe and you want to bail. Your perrogative, of course, but it suggests you have an answer and don't want to share it.
Seriously though, I think I have benefited from this whole antennagate thing. The companies came out to bash at apple is the ones I will avoid in the future, since they are more comfortable with out right lying than to admit a general fault that is due to laws of physics.
Those other companies can't change the laws of physics either. But they still spread FUD about Apple.
I asked a perfectly valid question. What's to invest? That's how you answer the question is the degree of signal loss important, especially in a low signal area? Seems we're getting beyond the "all phones do it" tripe and you want to bail. Your perrogative, of course, but it suggests you have an answer and don't want to share it.
I will assert that I don't have the data you wish to have. Happy?
The simple fact is that all phones do do it. We all know that, even those who would prefer not to admit it.
I haven't seen any videos of one finger killing the signal of an iPhone 4, either.
Me neither. I think that they are just an urban legend started by Google.
You are incorrect.
Again, you are incorrect. All cell phones' antenna's, by rule of teh Physics of teh Universe, will be aversely affected by touching the phone pretty much anywhere with a single finger. Some spots are worse than others. Most manuals point out the bad spot.
Stop. Looking. At. The. Signal. Bars. They. Are. Meaningless.
It has been proven that the iP4 looses LESS bars than most phones.
It has the best reception of any phone on the market, as has been reported again and again by the reviewers. The Bloggers don't see