The flaw with Apple's reasoning on this is that the iPhone 4 exhibits these attenuation signals from there mere touch of the seam between the two antennas. This is compounded by the fact that it happens to be exactly where many people who hold their phones in their left hand put their palms.
Sure, the other phones will show signal loss when you hold it with a death grip cupping your hand over the entire antenna, and the iPhone 4 will do the same thing.
However, I haven't seen any videos of any other phone showing signal loss from one finger touching it. The excuse Apple gives that it "marks the spot" is bullsh!t. No other phone has a spot (marked or unmarked) that has the same symptoms.
And it IS a big deal, since its in a spot that naturally gets touched when holding the phone with your left hand. It doesn't require an awkward grip or huge hands to duplicate.
The bumper does fix this problem, but for Apple to say that the entire industry suffers from the same problem is a flat out lie for the reasons outlined above. It's a different problem in practice. It may be the same concept, but Apple's uninsulated exterior antenna design exacerbates it so much that it happens when people hold the phone naturally, whereas most other phones don't exhibit the same symptoms.
I'm sure if Apple were able to find a phone that had the EXACT same problem, they'd be more than willing to put up a video. And they haven't done this.
Hopefully, the September deadline will urge Apple to put a clear insulating coating over their antennas. Only then will Apple be on equal footing with other cellphone makers antenna-wise. (In all other respects, they are admittedly better).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody
Everything you've said here just boils down to ... "It's a lie because Apple's iPhone 4 is more sensitive to these issues."
The fact is though, that Apple has admitted all along that the iPhone 4 is more sensitive to these issues, and they purposely designed the antenna that way. What you are leaving out also, is the part where *because* the iPhone 4's antenna is so sensitive, it drops less calls in marginal areas than other phones.
Yes, iPhone 4 has a very sensitive antenna. That's pretty much the whole point of the thing. All you have to do is hold it normally and you will get better reception and fewer dropped calls than any other phone. If you insist on clapping it to your head like a moron with your giant hand wrapped around it and if you are in a low signal area you might find some degradation of the signal (although it most likely won't drop a call).
I understand that some people have sweaty hands, and that some people are not as dexterous as others and have to hold the phone in that unusual way and so they *might* see a *slight* increase in dropped calls, but that's the essential trade-off of the iPhone 4 design. A better antenna, that's more sensitive, but with an obvious weak spot that you have to avoid.
If you don't like it, buy some other phone. It's not a flaw, it's a design choice made on purpose.
It's a trade-off. Jumpstart the future at the bearable cost of leaving the past behind. More sensitivity to process information with the occasional sensitivity overload; like a lot of good, quality Posters on this site. Of whom Prof.Peabody is most certainly one...!
Does it mean my iPhone 4 is defective since I can not get the bars to drop in areas with poor signal strength? I'm sure I'm applying the death grip correctly.
The iP4, once firmware is upgraded to 4.0.1 can no longer be made to drop a call or lose a data signal when gripped "that way?"
Excuse me, but the post you were replying to was debunking the myth that the iP4 loses all signal in a strong signal area, that that apparent signal loss was an artifact of the algorithm. Just like all these other phones, the iP4 may drop a call in a low signal area. There's nothing unique going on here.
If a phone goes from dropping 2 calls per hundred to dropping 2.75-3 calls per hundred that's an increase of almost 50%. How's that insignificant?
Without the real numbers, not the very approximate numbers AT&T allowed to be release, one cannot say whether the dropped call difference is significant or not. all that can be said is that it's not very big.
Seriously? A side-by-side test of two phones is meaningless?
And I'm not arguing anything. I'm asking for more data as there appears to be a considerable lack of it, nothing to support anyone's position, frankly.
I agree that there is a lack of data. Because no one has been focusing on this issue previously. But, from what data there is, there does not seem to be some huge difference in iP4 behavior compared to other phones that people are claiming.
What I said was irrelevant was whether such a video exists, or not. The non-existence of a video, or our not knowing of the existence of a video, does not change the physics of the situation. What you are arguing is that, if a tree falls in a forest, and there's no one their to hear it, it does not produce sound waves.
Your argument is flawed. They designed it that way, for people that live in areas of strong cell. Not in areas of strong cell? well, they designed you a Bumper.
Also, it's not statistically meaningless when AT&T has access to data for all calls made on iPhones, meaning the sample size is 100%.
Since they didn't allow precise reporting of the numbers, all we know is that the determined call drop rate is >0 and <1, from which one cannot determine significance.
So you don't like it. A perfectly valid opinion. But the design isn't flawed because you don't like it.
It's just as good, if not a lot better, than any other cell phone made evar. This Antennagate nonsense tracks directly back to Gizmodo's pride, for humiliating themselves over buying stolen property.
Excuse me, but the post you were replying to was debunking the myth that the iP4 loses all signal in a strong signal area, that that apparent signal loss was an artifact of the algorithm. Just like all these other phones, the iP4 may drop a call in a low signal area. There's nothing unique going on here.
Why do you have to ruin every thread with common sense and sound logic?
Excuse me, but the post you were replying to was debunking the myth that the iP4 loses all signal in a strong signal area, that that apparent signal loss was an artifact of the algorithm. Just like all these other phones, the iP4 may drop a call in a low signal area. There's nothing unique going on here.
I never said anything about full signal strength. I said full bars, I understand the bars are relatively meaningless, certainly more so before the firmware upgrade.
I'll rephrase my question. Does the 4.0.1 firmware affect dropped calls or loss of data, either adversely or positively? My understanding it does not.
I agree that there is a lack of data. Because no one has been focusing on this issue previously. But, from what data there is, there does not seem to be some huge difference in iP4 behavior compared to other phones that people are claiming.
What I said was irrelevant was whether such a video exists, or not. The non-existence of a video, or our not knowing of the existence of a video, does not change the physics of the situation. What you are arguing is that, if a tree falls in a forest, and there's no one their to hear it, it does not produce sound waves.
Of course not. But you have to conceed that much ado is made about "videos" of other phones, often with much joy. These are all a bit silly without somewhat rigorous comparisons that just don't seem to exist for some reason. I mean, look, here's a test for the iP4 showing thus and so, here's a test for the xyz phone showing this and that. Please. Test together under the same conditions. Why is that not happening?
Is anybody in position to perform a side-by-side comparison? An iPhone 4 and a competitor or two. The comparison would have to be performed at the exact same time (roughly) and of course the second/third phone must be on the AT&T network. Use both phones with the same grip. Any difference? I suppose to be a decent test, it would have to take place in a place with marginal coverage. This would be so that any signal attentuation would potentially drop calls. Personally, I think the iPhone, with its external antenna, will drop calls faster than a phone with internal antenna. I think the case itself acts as a "bumper" to isolate the antenna from your hand. But we need somebody to confirm.
It does not, because it has no affect on the signal strength, only the display of signal strength.
So, as I said before, with 4.0.1, you will not drop from "full bars" to no bars. You will at most lose 2 bars, and possibly no bars.
Ok, so tests on the iP4 with the 4.0.1 firmware will not show a bar drop more than 2 when gripped "that way." (Sorry, use "that way" to avoid the silly death grip phrase, m aybe there's a more elegant way of saying it.)
Of course not. But you have to conceed that much ado is made about "videos" of other phones, often with much joy. These are all a bit silly without somewhat rigorous comparisons that just don't seem to exist for some reason. I mean, look, here's a test for the iP4 showing thus and so, here's a test for the xyz phone showing this and that. Please. Test together under the same conditions. Why is that not happening?
Because it's unnecessary. Because this whole issue is based on hysteria and those with vested interests trying to whip up hysteria. If you hold your phone, any phone, you'll lose some signal.
But, if it's that important to you, feel free to go conduct some tests on your own.
Ok, so tests on the iP4 with the 4.0.1 firmware will not show a bar drop more than 2 when gripped "that way." (Sorry, use "that way" to avoid the silly death grip phrase, m aybe there's a more elegant way of saying it.)
The flaw with Apple's reasoning on this is that the iPhone 4 exhibits these attenuation signals from there mere touch of the seam between the two antennas.
Is it really as simple as that? Touch the seam, drop signal. Don't touch seam, signal is fine?
If so, is it really that hard to avoid touching that one tiny spot on the entire iPhone 4? I don't think that is such a burden considering all phones have their own G-spots.
Except that plenty of iPhone 4 owners claim that they can't reproduce the effect by doing this mere touch.
I can't replicate a signal drop on my iPhone 4 at all. And these videos prove that the antenna issue isn't unique to the iPhone 4, which means the whole iPhone 4 antenna problems argument is bogus. It isn't an iPhone 4 problem. It's a smartphone problem, or possibly even a cellphone problem. The new iPhone design just made it easier to document.
Comments
If a phone goes from dropping 2 calls per hundred to dropping 2.75-3 calls per hundred that's an increase of almost 50%. How's that insignificant?
+1
Also, it's not statistically meaningless when AT&T has access to data for all calls made on iPhones, meaning the sample size is 100%.
The flaw with Apple's reasoning on this is that the iPhone 4 exhibits these attenuation signals from there mere touch of the seam between the two antennas. This is compounded by the fact that it happens to be exactly where many people who hold their phones in their left hand put their palms.
Sure, the other phones will show signal loss when you hold it with a death grip cupping your hand over the entire antenna, and the iPhone 4 will do the same thing.
However, I haven't seen any videos of any other phone showing signal loss from one finger touching it. The excuse Apple gives that it "marks the spot" is bullsh!t. No other phone has a spot (marked or unmarked) that has the same symptoms.
And it IS a big deal, since its in a spot that naturally gets touched when holding the phone with your left hand. It doesn't require an awkward grip or huge hands to duplicate.
The bumper does fix this problem, but for Apple to say that the entire industry suffers from the same problem is a flat out lie for the reasons outlined above. It's a different problem in practice. It may be the same concept, but Apple's uninsulated exterior antenna design exacerbates it so much that it happens when people hold the phone naturally, whereas most other phones don't exhibit the same symptoms.
I'm sure if Apple were able to find a phone that had the EXACT same problem, they'd be more than willing to put up a video. And they haven't done this.
Hopefully, the September deadline will urge Apple to put a clear insulating coating over their antennas. Only then will Apple be on equal footing with other cellphone makers antenna-wise. (In all other respects, they are admittedly better).
Everything you've said here just boils down to ... "It's a lie because Apple's iPhone 4 is more sensitive to these issues."
The fact is though, that Apple has admitted all along that the iPhone 4 is more sensitive to these issues, and they purposely designed the antenna that way. What you are leaving out also, is the part where *because* the iPhone 4's antenna is so sensitive, it drops less calls in marginal areas than other phones.
Yes, iPhone 4 has a very sensitive antenna. That's pretty much the whole point of the thing. All you have to do is hold it normally and you will get better reception and fewer dropped calls than any other phone. If you insist on clapping it to your head like a moron with your giant hand wrapped around it and if you are in a low signal area you might find some degradation of the signal (although it most likely won't drop a call).
I understand that some people have sweaty hands, and that some people are not as dexterous as others and have to hold the phone in that unusual way and so they *might* see a *slight* increase in dropped calls, but that's the essential trade-off of the iPhone 4 design. A better antenna, that's more sensitive, but with an obvious weak spot that you have to avoid.
If you don't like it, buy some other phone. It's not a flaw, it's a design choice made on purpose.
It's a trade-off. Jumpstart the future at the bearable cost of leaving the past behind. More sensitivity to process information with the occasional sensitivity overload; like a lot of good, quality Posters on this site. Of whom Prof.Peabody is most certainly one...!
The iP4, once firmware is upgraded to 4.0.1 can no longer be made to drop a call or lose a data signal when gripped "that way?"
Excuse me, but the post you were replying to was debunking the myth that the iP4 loses all signal in a strong signal area, that that apparent signal loss was an artifact of the algorithm. Just like all these other phones, the iP4 may drop a call in a low signal area. There's nothing unique going on here.
If a phone goes from dropping 2 calls per hundred to dropping 2.75-3 calls per hundred that's an increase of almost 50%. How's that insignificant?
Without the real numbers, not the very approximate numbers AT&T allowed to be release, one cannot say whether the dropped call difference is significant or not. all that can be said is that it's not very big.
Seriously? A side-by-side test of two phones is meaningless?
And I'm not arguing anything. I'm asking for more data as there appears to be a considerable lack of it, nothing to support anyone's position, frankly.
I agree that there is a lack of data. Because no one has been focusing on this issue previously. But, from what data there is, there does not seem to be some huge difference in iP4 behavior compared to other phones that people are claiming.
What I said was irrelevant was whether such a video exists, or not. The non-existence of a video, or our not knowing of the existence of a video, does not change the physics of the situation. What you are arguing is that, if a tree falls in a forest, and there's no one their to hear it, it does not produce sound waves.
Your argument is flawed. They designed it that way, for people that live in areas of strong cell. Not in areas of strong cell? well, they designed you a Bumper.
Translation: they designed it to suck.
+1
Also, it's not statistically meaningless when AT&T has access to data for all calls made on iPhones, meaning the sample size is 100%.
Since they didn't allow precise reporting of the numbers, all we know is that the determined call drop rate is >0 and <1, from which one cannot determine significance.
Translation: they designed it to suck.
So you don't like it. A perfectly valid opinion. But the design isn't flawed because you don't like it.
It's just as good, if not a lot better, than any other cell phone made evar. This Antennagate nonsense tracks directly back to Gizmodo's pride, for humiliating themselves over buying stolen property.
Translation: they designed it to suck.
Translation: You have an agenda here that has nothing to do with truth.
Excuse me, but the post you were replying to was debunking the myth that the iP4 loses all signal in a strong signal area, that that apparent signal loss was an artifact of the algorithm. Just like all these other phones, the iP4 may drop a call in a low signal area. There's nothing unique going on here.
Why do you have to ruin every thread with common sense and sound logic?
Excuse me, but the post you were replying to was debunking the myth that the iP4 loses all signal in a strong signal area, that that apparent signal loss was an artifact of the algorithm. Just like all these other phones, the iP4 may drop a call in a low signal area. There's nothing unique going on here.
I never said anything about full signal strength. I said full bars, I understand the bars are relatively meaningless, certainly more so before the firmware upgrade.
I'll rephrase my question. Does the 4.0.1 firmware affect dropped calls or loss of data, either adversely or positively? My understanding it does not.
I never said anything about full signal strength. I said full bars.
I'll rephrase my question. Does the 4.0.1 firmware affect dropped calls or loss of data, either adversely or positively? My understanding it does not.
It does not, because it has no affect on the signal strength, only the display of signal strength.
So, as I said before, with 4.0.1, you will not drop from "full bars" to no bars. You will at most lose 2 bars, and possibly no bars.
I agree that there is a lack of data. Because no one has been focusing on this issue previously. But, from what data there is, there does not seem to be some huge difference in iP4 behavior compared to other phones that people are claiming.
What I said was irrelevant was whether such a video exists, or not. The non-existence of a video, or our not knowing of the existence of a video, does not change the physics of the situation. What you are arguing is that, if a tree falls in a forest, and there's no one their to hear it, it does not produce sound waves.
Of course not. But you have to conceed that much ado is made about "videos" of other phones, often with much joy. These are all a bit silly without somewhat rigorous comparisons that just don't seem to exist for some reason. I mean, look, here's a test for the iP4 showing thus and so, here's a test for the xyz phone showing this and that. Please. Test together under the same conditions. Why is that not happening?
It does not, because it has no affect on the signal strength, only the display of signal strength.
So, as I said before, with 4.0.1, you will not drop from "full bars" to no bars. You will at most lose 2 bars, and possibly no bars.
Ok, so tests on the iP4 with the 4.0.1 firmware will not show a bar drop more than 2 when gripped "that way." (Sorry, use "that way" to avoid the silly death grip phrase, m aybe there's a more elegant way of saying it.)
Of course not. But you have to conceed that much ado is made about "videos" of other phones, often with much joy. These are all a bit silly without somewhat rigorous comparisons that just don't seem to exist for some reason. I mean, look, here's a test for the iP4 showing thus and so, here's a test for the xyz phone showing this and that. Please. Test together under the same conditions. Why is that not happening?
Because it's unnecessary. Because this whole issue is based on hysteria and those with vested interests trying to whip up hysteria. If you hold your phone, any phone, you'll lose some signal.
But, if it's that important to you, feel free to go conduct some tests on your own.
Ok, so tests on the iP4 with the 4.0.1 firmware will not show a bar drop more than 2 when gripped "that way." (Sorry, use "that way" to avoid the silly death grip phrase, m aybe there's a more elegant way of saying it.)
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3821/i...-41-signal-fix
The result is that the worst case drop of 24 dBm no longer makes all the signal bars disappear, but rather two.
The flaw with Apple's reasoning on this is that the iPhone 4 exhibits these attenuation signals from there mere touch of the seam between the two antennas.
Is it really as simple as that? Touch the seam, drop signal. Don't touch seam, signal is fine?
If so, is it really that hard to avoid touching that one tiny spot on the entire iPhone 4? I don't think that is such a burden considering all phones have their own G-spots.
Except that plenty of iPhone 4 owners claim that they can't reproduce the effect by doing this mere touch.
I can't replicate a signal drop on my iPhone 4 at all. And these videos prove that the antenna issue isn't unique to the iPhone 4, which means the whole iPhone 4 antenna problems argument is bogus. It isn't an iPhone 4 problem. It's a smartphone problem, or possibly even a cellphone problem. The new iPhone design just made it easier to document.