I don't know, but it's pointless to look for them. The results are dictated by the physics, not by whether one can find videos.
Have any tests been run (forget the videos for a second) purporting to be at least somewhat scientific, demonstrating loss of call or data on other phones when gripped when at the same time the iP4 does drop call or data? Again, couldn't care less about videos or tests that only show signal bar drop.
Look, if videos are there and found you know they would be touted as proof that the iP4 does not have an issue any different than other phones. And I would agree. But without them, or side-by-side tests these claims that all phones suffer the same fate rings a bit hollow.
What, exactly, does a video of a dropped call say about anything at all, genius? This was the problem all along with the Apple bashers... you can't tell where videos are made. Could have been made in a bunker with just the bare minimum available cell. This is why real scientists use controlled conditions and hundred million dollar anechoic chambers.
Again, I say,
A stupid video of a hand, and a cell phone, and a dropped call... MEANS ZILTCH. Always had. A million videos like them mean zilch. On both sides... any cell phone, isolated video, dropping bars or a call, or anything like that, it's all dog poo. Meaningless.
This is my point exactly. As an apple fanboi, you will ALWAYS be able to point to some unknown variable in order to dismiss it (in your own mind).
So tell me, are the videos posted by Apple meaningless, since you can't tell where the video is being made?
Tests by Anandtech and consumer reports show that the signal will drop by about 20db when held with the seam being touched by skin.
If the person is in an area with really good reception, the phone may still show 5 bars after a 20db drop, since the db range for 5 bars is quite big.
On the latest MacBreak Weekly podcast, Leo LaPorte quoted a signal engineer as saying that CR's tests are not scientifically definitive. Nothing nefarious, just the limits of the kind of testing they do. He said there were too many critical variables that their protocol did not account for. Theirs is not the final word on this.
Acknowledging this defeats the argument that the iPhone 4 design is flawed. You may now argue that it is inferior, if you so desire.
It is inferior, in a way that can be easily remedied at very little cost. An invisible insulating coating would do the trick, as shown by the ZAGG videos.
Actually, it's not meaningless. As I've stated before, other phones only suffer signal loss when you hold them unnaturally. And the iPhone suffers signal loss when held in some natural ways.
Not so, they will all suffer signal loss when held. The non-iPhone that was shown dropping signal when the spot on it's back is touched, will lose signal "when held naturally" if your finger happens to stray there during a call. So, yes, all your assertions are meaningless rhetoric, founded on meaningless distinctions.
Not quite. It was stated that it's under 1 more calls per hundred so safe to assume it's probably in the area of .75-1 more dropped calls. The said drop rate for the 3GS has been around 2%. That gives an assumed drop rate of 2.75-3% for the iPhone 4.
In it's January quarterly report AT&T stated an average drop call rate for all 3G phones models to be 0.91% which gives the iPhone 4 a minimum of 3X the drop rate of their average and it's safe to say with basic math that the iPhone itself is bringing that average up so the rate of dropped calls would be 3-4X higher than most other phones.
How is the difference between 2% and 2.75% not what I wrote ?
Have any tests been run (forget the videos for a second) purporting to be at least somewhat scientific, demonstrating loss of call or data on other phones when gripped when at the same time the iP4 does drop call or data? Again, couldn't care less about videos or tests that only show signal bar drop.
Look, if videos are there and found you know they would be touted as proof that the iP4 does not have an issue any different than other phones. And I would agree. But without them, or side-by-side tests these claims that all phones suffer the same fate rings a bit hollow.
And you shouldn't care less anyway!
1) All cell phones have a "death spot" - a spot that if touched by a single finger will drop signal levels more than touching any other spot on that phone
2) whether the death spot drops the signal -20dD or -5dB, it's still messing with the reception, and degrading it
3) a dropped call happens when cell signal level reaches, effectively, zero.
4) in an area where only -5dB cell signal is available anyway, touching the death spot of a cell phone that drops the signla -5dB will cause the call to drop
THUS
you don't need to see a video of it. You can imagine that such a scenario could exist, most likely exists. You now realize that this is what is occurring with the iPhone 4's death spot... calls get dropped when the available cell is just enough that touching the death spot will drop the call. And this happens 1 more times out of a hundred than the best cell phone of all time (the 3GS).
My girlfriend has a N97 with AT&T service and this phone is almost useless at making phone calls. She has dropped calls nearly every other call in the SF Bay Area. Howard Stern use to complain a lot about his Blackberry Bold that he got with AT&T service in NYC. He said he couldn't even make calls on it without dropping.
I don't think the iPhone 4 issue is anything unique for a smart phone with AT&T service.
Sorry, but this no longer happens using iOS 4.0.1, where the bars are actually somewhat analogous to signal strength. Before they weren't. Same exact signal drop. You have no argument.
The iP4, once firmware is upgraded to 4.0.1 can no longer be made to drop a call or lose a data signal when gripped "that way?"
It is inferior, in a way that can be easily remedied at very little cost. An invisible insulating coating would do the trick, as shown by the ZAGG videos.
In that way the design is flawed.
Your argument is flawed. They designed it that way, for people that live in areas of strong cell. Not in areas of strong cell? well, they designed you a Bumper.
Have any tests been run (forget the videos for a second) purporting to be at least somewhat scientific, demonstrating loss of call or data on other phones when gripped when at the same time the iP4 does drop call or data? Again, couldn't care less about videos or tests that only show signal bar drop.
Look, if videos are there and found you know they would be touted as proof that the iP4 does not have an issue any different than other phones. And I would agree. But without them, or side-by-side tests these claims that all phones suffer the same fate rings a bit hollow.
Your point about whether such videos exist or not remains irrelevant. Signal loss is signal loss. If it drops enough to lose all signal, data transfer will cease, and calls will be dropped. This happens on all phones. There is nothing unique about the iP4. And simply repeating your argument over and over again won't change that.
This is my point exactly. As an apple fanboi, you will ALWAYS be able to point to some unknown variable in order to dismiss it (in your own mind).
So tell me, are the videos posted by Apple meaningless, since you can't tell where the video is being made?
Yes, I believe that is why they posted them because the first thing you want to say is it can be faked.
Basically, they duplicated the meaningless videos with other phones. So, with their videos, they are negating any points made with the other videos. Which were thin to begin with because of all the unknowables.
Ok, I get it now. You're a pompous ass. Say "hi" to my ignore list.
It's called intelligent debate. We make points, we disagree, we argue, and we hopefully, eventually, concede to understanding. I'd appreciate it if you'd stick to arguing the point, and not, say, how much my underwear smells, or whatever.
Your point about whether such videos exist or not remains irrelevant. Signal loss is signal loss. If it drops enough to lose all signal, data transfer will cease, and calls will be dropped. This happens on all phones. There is nothing unique about the iP4. And simply repeating your argument over and over again won't change that.
Seriously? A side-by-side test of two phones is meaningless?
And I'm not arguing anything. I'm asking for more data as there appears to be a considerable lack of it, nothing to support anyone's position, frankly.
It is odd that Apple didn't demo the one touch signal drop on other phones, because they exhibit it too. I believe they showed a picture of a non-smart phone that had a sticker on the back "don't touch here" or something. Apple's reasoning is not flawed. Millions are begging the question by assuming there is an issue only with iPhone 4, but it really isn't isolated to Apple's phones.
Here's what's happening.... you touch the death spot, see the signal drop, maybe lose a call... because: the software is reporting more signal than there is, when you touch, seems like more signal is lost, but there wasn't much to begin with... it's an illusion. If a call is dropped, you're in an area of weak cell.
Just TOUCHING a cell phone is enough to detenuate the antenna by -15dB - -20dB of signal... best way to make a phone call in an area of weak cell with any cell phone is to use a headset, preferably bluetooth. Set the phone up high... let it sit 30 seconds, try to make your call, don't touch the phone during the call.
Maybe. Maybe not. Not sure there's too many phones with an internal antenna that a single fingertip on the case can affect it as signfiicantly as that same fingertip on the iPhone4. After all, the case itself acts as a buffer between you and the antenna. Whereas on the iPhone, you are actually touching the antenna. No insulation between you and it. Not having touched an iPhone 4, I can't really say for sure.
Seriously? A side-by-side test of two phones is meaningless?
Quite.
Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, at best. ;-) It's becoming clear over the past few weeks that what evidence there is cannot be trusted, necessarily. Some independent labs have published, and Apple has given their demonstration. And suddenly, we forget the argument about dropping bars when touched, but no acknowledgement is made that Gizmodo was just completely wrong in publishing that first incendiary story. So... magically, we move on from the argument "The iPhone is flawed because it drops bars when you touch the antenna" because... all phones do it. And now...
You want to argue "But what about dropped calls?"
And we are trying to tell you it's precisely the same thing as signal drop. You are asking for information that won't tell you anything new.
Comments
I don't know, but it's pointless to look for them. The results are dictated by the physics, not by whether one can find videos.
Have any tests been run (forget the videos for a second) purporting to be at least somewhat scientific, demonstrating loss of call or data on other phones when gripped when at the same time the iP4 does drop call or data? Again, couldn't care less about videos or tests that only show signal bar drop.
Look, if videos are there and found you know they would be touted as proof that the iP4 does not have an issue any different than other phones. And I would agree. But without them, or side-by-side tests these claims that all phones suffer the same fate rings a bit hollow.
Tests by Anandtech and consumer reports show that the signal will drop by about 20db when held with the seam being touched by skin.
If the person is in an area with really good reception, the phone may still show 5 bars after a 20db drop, since the db range for 5 bars is quite big.
Acknowledging this defeats the argument that the iPhone 4 design is flawed. You may now argue that it is inferior, if you so desire.
OMG.
Context much?
What, exactly, does a video of a dropped call say about anything at all, genius? This was the problem all along with the Apple bashers... you can't tell where videos are made. Could have been made in a bunker with just the bare minimum available cell. This is why real scientists use controlled conditions and hundred million dollar anechoic chambers.
Again, I say,
A stupid video of a hand, and a cell phone, and a dropped call... MEANS ZILTCH. Always had. A million videos like them mean zilch. On both sides... any cell phone, isolated video, dropping bars or a call, or anything like that, it's all dog poo. Meaningless.
This is my point exactly. As an apple fanboi, you will ALWAYS be able to point to some unknown variable in order to dismiss it (in your own mind).
So tell me, are the videos posted by Apple meaningless, since you can't tell where the video is being made?
Tests by Anandtech and consumer reports show that the signal will drop by about 20db when held with the seam being touched by skin.
If the person is in an area with really good reception, the phone may still show 5 bars after a 20db drop, since the db range for 5 bars is quite big.
On the latest MacBreak Weekly podcast, Leo LaPorte quoted a signal engineer as saying that CR's tests are not scientifically definitive. Nothing nefarious, just the limits of the kind of testing they do. He said there were too many critical variables that their protocol did not account for. Theirs is not the final word on this.
Acknowledging this defeats the argument that the iPhone 4 design is flawed. You may now argue that it is inferior, if you so desire.
It is inferior, in a way that can be easily remedied at very little cost. An invisible insulating coating would do the trick, as shown by the ZAGG videos.
In that way the design is flawed.
Actually, it's not meaningless. As I've stated before, other phones only suffer signal loss when you hold them unnaturally. And the iPhone suffers signal loss when held in some natural ways.
Not so, they will all suffer signal loss when held. The non-iPhone that was shown dropping signal when the spot on it's back is touched, will lose signal "when held naturally" if your finger happens to stray there during a call. So, yes, all your assertions are meaningless rhetoric, founded on meaningless distinctions.
Not quite. It was stated that it's under 1 more calls per hundred so safe to assume it's probably in the area of .75-1 more dropped calls. The said drop rate for the 3GS has been around 2%. That gives an assumed drop rate of 2.75-3% for the iPhone 4.
In it's January quarterly report AT&T stated an average drop call rate for all 3G phones models to be 0.91% which gives the iPhone 4 a minimum of 3X the drop rate of their average and it's safe to say with basic math that the iPhone itself is bringing that average up so the rate of dropped calls would be 3-4X higher than most other phones.
How is the difference between 2% and 2.75% not what I wrote ?
"1. iP4 almost identical dropped calls as 3GS"
The difference is statistically meaningless.
Tests by Anandtech and consumer reports show that the signal will drop by about 20db when held with the seam being touched by skin.
If the person is in an area with really good reception, the phone may still show 5 bars after a 20db drop, since the db range for 5 bars is quite big.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3821/i...-41-signal-fix
Have any tests been run (forget the videos for a second) purporting to be at least somewhat scientific, demonstrating loss of call or data on other phones when gripped when at the same time the iP4 does drop call or data? Again, couldn't care less about videos or tests that only show signal bar drop.
Look, if videos are there and found you know they would be touted as proof that the iP4 does not have an issue any different than other phones. And I would agree. But without them, or side-by-side tests these claims that all phones suffer the same fate rings a bit hollow.
And you shouldn't care less anyway!
1) All cell phones have a "death spot" - a spot that if touched by a single finger will drop signal levels more than touching any other spot on that phone
2) whether the death spot drops the signal -20dD or -5dB, it's still messing with the reception, and degrading it
3) a dropped call happens when cell signal level reaches, effectively, zero.
4) in an area where only -5dB cell signal is available anyway, touching the death spot of a cell phone that drops the signla -5dB will cause the call to drop
THUS
you don't need to see a video of it. You can imagine that such a scenario could exist, most likely exists. You now realize that this is what is occurring with the iPhone 4's death spot... calls get dropped when the available cell is just enough that touching the death spot will drop the call. And this happens 1 more times out of a hundred than the best cell phone of all time (the 3GS).
Get it?
I don't think the iPhone 4 issue is anything unique for a smart phone with AT&T service.
Sorry, but this no longer happens using iOS 4.0.1, where the bars are actually somewhat analogous to signal strength. Before they weren't. Same exact signal drop. You have no argument.
The iP4, once firmware is upgraded to 4.0.1 can no longer be made to drop a call or lose a data signal when gripped "that way?"
It is inferior, in a way that can be easily remedied at very little cost. An invisible insulating coating would do the trick, as shown by the ZAGG videos.
In that way the design is flawed.
Your argument is flawed. They designed it that way, for people that live in areas of strong cell. Not in areas of strong cell? well, they designed you a Bumper.
Have any tests been run (forget the videos for a second) purporting to be at least somewhat scientific, demonstrating loss of call or data on other phones when gripped when at the same time the iP4 does drop call or data? Again, couldn't care less about videos or tests that only show signal bar drop.
Look, if videos are there and found you know they would be touted as proof that the iP4 does not have an issue any different than other phones. And I would agree. But without them, or side-by-side tests these claims that all phones suffer the same fate rings a bit hollow.
Your point about whether such videos exist or not remains irrelevant. Signal loss is signal loss. If it drops enough to lose all signal, data transfer will cease, and calls will be dropped. This happens on all phones. There is nothing unique about the iP4. And simply repeating your argument over and over again won't change that.
This is my point exactly. As an apple fanboi, you will ALWAYS be able to point to some unknown variable in order to dismiss it (in your own mind).
So tell me, are the videos posted by Apple meaningless, since you can't tell where the video is being made?
Yes, I believe that is why they posted them because the first thing you want to say is it can be faked.
Basically, they duplicated the meaningless videos with other phones. So, with their videos, they are negating any points made with the other videos. Which were thin to begin with because of all the unknowables.
Acknowledging this defeats the argument that the iPhone 4 design is flawed. You may now argue that it is inferior, if you so desire.
Ok, I get it now. You're a pompous ass. Say "hi" to my ignore list.
How is the difference between 2% and 2.75% not what I wrote ?
"1. iP4 almost identical dropped calls as 3GS"
The difference is statistically meaningless.
If a phone goes from dropping 2 calls per hundred to dropping 2.75-3 calls per hundred that's an increase of almost 50%. How's that insignificant?
Ok, I get it now. You're a pompous ass. Say "hi" to my ignore list.
It's called intelligent debate. We make points, we disagree, we argue, and we hopefully, eventually, concede to understanding. I'd appreciate it if you'd stick to arguing the point, and not, say, how much my underwear smells, or whatever.
Your point about whether such videos exist or not remains irrelevant. Signal loss is signal loss. If it drops enough to lose all signal, data transfer will cease, and calls will be dropped. This happens on all phones. There is nothing unique about the iP4. And simply repeating your argument over and over again won't change that.
Seriously? A side-by-side test of two phones is meaningless?
And I'm not arguing anything. I'm asking for more data as there appears to be a considerable lack of it, nothing to support anyone's position, frankly.
It is odd that Apple didn't demo the one touch signal drop on other phones, because they exhibit it too. I believe they showed a picture of a non-smart phone that had a sticker on the back "don't touch here" or something. Apple's reasoning is not flawed. Millions are begging the question by assuming there is an issue only with iPhone 4, but it really isn't isolated to Apple's phones.
Here's what's happening.... you touch the death spot, see the signal drop, maybe lose a call... because: the software is reporting more signal than there is, when you touch, seems like more signal is lost, but there wasn't much to begin with... it's an illusion. If a call is dropped, you're in an area of weak cell.
Just TOUCHING a cell phone is enough to detenuate the antenna by -15dB - -20dB of signal... best way to make a phone call in an area of weak cell with any cell phone is to use a headset, preferably bluetooth. Set the phone up high... let it sit 30 seconds, try to make your call, don't touch the phone during the call.
Maybe. Maybe not. Not sure there's too many phones with an internal antenna that a single fingertip on the case can affect it as signfiicantly as that same fingertip on the iPhone4. After all, the case itself acts as a buffer between you and the antenna. Whereas on the iPhone, you are actually touching the antenna. No insulation between you and it. Not having touched an iPhone 4, I can't really say for sure.
Seriously? A side-by-side test of two phones is meaningless?
Quite.
Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, at best. ;-) It's becoming clear over the past few weeks that what evidence there is cannot be trusted, necessarily. Some independent labs have published, and Apple has given their demonstration. And suddenly, we forget the argument about dropping bars when touched, but no acknowledgement is made that Gizmodo was just completely wrong in publishing that first incendiary story. So... magically, we move on from the argument "The iPhone is flawed because it drops bars when you touch the antenna" because... all phones do it. And now...
You want to argue "But what about dropped calls?"
And we are trying to tell you it's precisely the same thing as signal drop. You are asking for information that won't tell you anything new.