I agree with your initial statement, but not your conclusion. The trollish and disparaging term "Apple Tax" is meant to infer that there is no value added to Apple products, that you're just paying for the name. Would you say people drive Kias because they can't afford the BMW tax? I would say they can't afford the BMW.
Okay, let's be honest amongst ourselves in the forum. Apple hardware costs more than other manufacturers hardware. It may be worth it, it may not. But it is a truism.
If you guys really want to persuade me that I am wrong about all things Apple, don't tell me I'm wrong about everything in the whole world. It weakens your point.
Okay, let's be honest amongst ourselves in the forum. Apple hardware costs more than other manufacturers hardware. It may be worth it, it may not. But it is a truism.
If you guys really want to persuade me that I am wrong about all things Apple, don't tell me I'm wrong about everything in the whole world. It weakens your point.
Fine, but the point about the cliche'd "apple tax" remains the same. You foolishly spew that term (as do many others) as if there is no added value to justify the higher price. I'll take the security and simplicity of OSX over windows any day, at any price.
Here's my rant on Apple iPod give-aways. When they give you a "free" iPod with your computer, they make you buy the iPod and apply for a "rebate." That way they can say they "sold" x-number of iPods, including the ones they give away. They shouldn't to that. It makes them seem slimy.
Kind of off topic, but I agree with your assessment. It is a very non-Apple way of doing things. On the other hand, I don't think the intention is to boost sales numbers. How much boosting do you need to do when you own the market?
I think even if they just bundled the Mac and iPod together and sold them as one, the iPod would still count as sold. Don't have to do a rebate for that to happen do they? Any corporate CFOs out there?
The guy is using the word to mean that he just hates Apple.
Ha, and by "hate" you mean "is secretly envious," just like all these executives. They'd kill to have a Mac, nobody actually "likes" windows better. But obviously an Acer exec can't be seen rockin' a macbook.
They are the second-largest computer company in the world. Their unit shipments dwarf those of Apple.
But all we care about is Apple, so it is easy to miss what is going on in the world around us.
Nope. I have an Acer laptop and it's pants. Very popular computer over here in the UK, but it doesn't exactly inspire individuals to build websites and debate it's form factor. Chalk and cheese my friend.
I don't think that Apple has sold over 300 million iPads, but it doesn't really matter. Just because Acer blsws away Apple in sales in every single category they compete in is irrelevant.
Apple gets the highest prices and the most profit from each sale. As consumers, that is what is important.
steve our master gave us at least 5 miracle products
with one fantastic lean mean SW os to tie them all together.
My buddy had to buy his wife and kids computers for school << grades 10th thru 2 yr college >>
got 5 free touches base models no upgrades.
Some one at apple sent an extra box for his family filled with goodies like t shirts stickers and stuff. All 5 MB were pre installed with free SW.
Suck in the bottom of the case was a handwritten card stating
>>THANK YOU FROM APPLE <<.
Apple understands that taking great care of its clients is good for APPLE.
why you hate apple so much and need to throw oil and sand in our eyes daily is beyond me.
peace
9
So giving away stuff for free makes for good customer service? Sounds great to me. How can I get in on this free stuff? When I walk into the Apple store I get a really good price. FULL PRICE.
And how am I throwing oil and sand in your face? By telling the truth the way it is? No one here has refuted one of my points. All you do is cry like fanboys cause I picked on your leader. I call em as I see em. Deal with it. Jobs is not a Jedi master. He is a CEO and he is supposed to be making great products for his users, not telling them what the can and cannot do with his walled garden OS.
Did I make it clear enough for you? Or do you want to have another piece of Apple pie and live in the glass house?
Open platform - depends on your defination of open. According to every manufacturer (other than Apple of course) MS and Google are open because they run on their hardware. So by that defination Apple is closed. THANK GOD for that.
But speaking of Google's openness. One should read TechRepublic's article on this. Google may be "open" but Google has put the consumer movement behind by years.
When Apple iphone was first available on AT&T, Apple convinced AT&T not to put their brand name on the phone and not to install their crapware on the phone. That set the direction for the US handset market to move to the open markets of Europe where the model is very successful.
After the failure of Nexus by HTC Google basically gave up and allowed Verizon to install all kinds of junk on the Android phone. It also allowed Verizon to nickle and dime the consumers to death.
So in reality Apple is far more open than Google and thanks to Google we will have a few more years of CRAPWARE to deal with.
Thanks Google. We love you so much.
Here is a link to the article about how Google screwed consumers. Read and Weep.
Even if apple doesn't care about market share... I'm goin to dip into it a bit for my
Point.
This time last year apple's iPods had a 73% market share. Impressive 3 out of every 4 personal music players were an iPod. Even after Microsoft and Samsung (among every other manufacturer) released their "iPod killers". MP3 players that boasted features better then then iPod. Fine and dandy but they first tried to release their own OS. But in the end reverted to making their products look pretty damn similar to the iPod.... In an attempt to get a piece of that available 27% market share. The stand alone products with their own designs died off quickly... Where the manufacturers who have a piece of the 27%MS are basically IPod clones.
Fast forward to today. The same companies may have a larger market share then the iPhone but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that their products are still pretty damn similar to the iPhone. Before the iPhone... Almost no one had a touch screen. Now, everyone has one and has plans to make it "better". They are still playing the iPod game in the smart phone business. These companies are afraid of apple getting the same 73% market share in the smart phone. No? Why are they comparing their products to the next Apple product? You rarely ever hear RIM bashing Nokia or Google. There's almost an unwritten rule where these super companies can't allow Apple to get over 20%MS. Classic case of kicking them when they're down. (See: antennagate).
Fast forward even further. To the iPad. Without even having to dwell too swept into this one. I'm predicting a trend. These same companies are chasing Apple right from the get go. Finding things wrong with the Apple product (See: antennagate but this time replace it with Open Source) even before they, themselves have released a product. And even when they do, who is willing to bet that they will be a spitting image of the iPad? A few might dare to make one that is their own, sure. But a short life span tends to follow products that attempt this. (See: iPod 2001-2010 and any competitors).
Why do apple products do so well? Because they're quality units (yes, with occasional defects, no one is perfect.) that run off of basically the same OS. The transition between an iPod to an iPhone to an iPad to a Mac takes minutes to adjust. This seamless gap is what I think makes Apple products so good. You can hand an iPad to a 4 year old and within these minutes they could figure it how to launch an app and basically make it do what they want. No hidden button presses to do simple tasks. This is also key for the apps in iOS, I believe that apples regulation of apps is to continue across the simplicity of it all. How many of you have installed Linux in the past only to never use it again? (I'm not saying that Linux is bad, it required more tweaking then what I needed in an OS.) And how many have searched for hours on how to do stuff in Windows? Their control panel almost requires you to have a PhD in order to find what you're looking for. Want to find something in MacOS? Click into the settings 'app'. And voilÃ*. The simplicity is key.
So yes, I agree that apples market share will eventually drop in the tablet market. But formsimplicitys sake, it won't drop as low as 20%. If the open source thing really bugs you that much, a bunch of pirates are devoted to the jailbreak. The underground app militia isn't going anywhere and are making sure to accommodate to the users who like the simplicity but have the tweaking urge of the Linux users.
A fanboi is someone who will only stick by the good. A supporter is someone who can see that grey area and embrace the products for what they need. (See: antennagate and cross reference it with the sales numbers of the iPhone 4) same will happen with the iPad. It will eventually lose ground but apple is accommodating those who find that Product A accommodates their needs better then Product B without the need of releasing product C, D, E, F and G just to accommodate the wants that their product B doesn't support. (refrenxin the 7 current models of RIM Blackberries, And [couldn't find an exact number of android phones]. but last time I checked the amount of iOS devices ever totaled 7(?) With only the new IPod touch, iphone 3GS, iPhone 4, and iPad being the current models. Over 4 years they have only dropped 3 devices into their non-current list. RIM seems to do a drop of this magnitude monthly.... It's a wonder apple even holds a 22% market share in the smart phone industry, their 4 models of iPhones are severely dwarfed by the amount of phones the other guys have. So I'm thinking that this number alone goes to show that people just really don't care about the "open source factor". I believe that the iPad not supporting open source won't hurt it's market share like these big boy smack talkers seem to think (See: antennagate). It's all about the simplicity, Apples designs definitely mimic their OS. Sometimes less really is more.
He's probably right, the iPad will fail. But failure will come only after Apple makes billions, probably tens of billions, in pretax profits because on it. By then, there will be something new.
Game consoles are far more closed than the iPhone which has options like HTML5 apps and a much more lenient policy regarding 3rd party apps than console makers. They dominate the gaming market compared to gaming PCs overwhelmingly and are far more profitable. Companies develop for consoles because they can actually make money making games for them, partly because they are far harder to pirate. Apple has offered this same advantage to anyone who wants to develop for the iOS platform and created a tremendous opportunity for many people to actually get paid for the apps they develop.
Additionally, Apple offers the development software for free and the iOS has large chunks of opensource software such as BSD, OpenGL and others. Apple's degree of control helps maintain a degree of quality and security on their products as well as nurturing its developing community. This influence over the development, app store, OS and hardware offers many advantages to developers and customers. The whole "closed platform" hand wringing nonsense is getting very old. It will all come down to the value created for the customer and the experience of using the product. This has been reflected by both Apple's excellent sales numbers and profits.
If "more open" options want to compete, they have a lot of work ahead of them but all the power to them. Competition is a good thing.
Okay, let's be honest amongst ourselves in the forum. Apple hardware costs more than other manufacturers hardware. It may be worth it, it may not. But it is a truism.
If you guys really want to persuade me that I am wrong about all things Apple, don't tell me I'm wrong about everything in the whole world. It weakens your point.
Okay, let's start with the absolutism you often manifest. Look at what you said. In the comment that you responded to I specifically said I agreed with your premise. Your response is that I said you are "wrong about all things Apple . . . wrong about everything in the whole world." That kind of overreaction seems juvenile and makes it hard to take you seriously.
I am all for debating points that are debatable, but setting up a straw man and knocking it down will not help you be taken seriously here. I say this with respect and the hope that you will consider it.
while i have no interest in buying this stuff, you've left off some decent tablets:
Exo PC, Slate, ink adam, ICD Ultra...
Every one of those is still vaporware tho isn't it? The only current competition is certainly proving to be pretty awful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbobf
You mean like they give away iPods?
Here's my rant on Apple iPod give-aways. When they give you a "free" iPod with your computer, they make you buy the iPod and apply for a "rebate." That way they can say they "sold" x-number of iPods, including the ones they give away. They shouldn't to that. It makes them seem slimy.
I hate rebates, but that is how rebates work. You pay for something upfront, then send the request for the money back. Some stores like Best Buy invoke instant rebates, but that just means they will be the ones requesting the funds from the company. You're still getting an iPod for free in the long run, so what's the issue?
Exactly. Today my 4 year old daughter grabbed my wife's iPad and opened a movie on it. Granted we had let her play with it a while for a few months so she knew her way around. She knows that if she does not like the screen after she taps and icon, to hit the Home button and then start again. She found the Movies icon, clicked and saw her movies there. She then proceeded to click on them and found the volume and scrubber function. 4 years old. No way this would happen on a WinX or Android machine. Apple makes it simple.
That is exactly why the iPad is going to retain 100% market share. Everybody wants a device simple enough to be operated by a 4 year old. Who wants to ever be forced to think about anything? Especially computers?
Yes, because Windows and iPod were SO open compared to Linux. Why doesn't Linux run on every desktop in the world? Because consumers don't care about openness. They want value, utility, and entertainment. Android is looking like it will be a reasonable contender, but nothing is inevitable.
How does one become a bs artist for one of these soon to be rapidly failing former big PC vendors?
Does it just come naturally or do they groom this kind of bs?
Comments
I agree with your initial statement, but not your conclusion. The trollish and disparaging term "Apple Tax" is meant to infer that there is no value added to Apple products, that you're just paying for the name. Would you say people drive Kias because they can't afford the BMW tax? I would say they can't afford the BMW.
Okay, let's be honest amongst ourselves in the forum. Apple hardware costs more than other manufacturers hardware. It may be worth it, it may not. But it is a truism.
If you guys really want to persuade me that I am wrong about all things Apple, don't tell me I'm wrong about everything in the whole world. It weakens your point.
They are the second-largest computer company in the world. Their unit shipments dwarf those of Apple.
But all we care about is Apple, so it is easy to miss what is going on in the world around us.
Of course Acer was leads in R&D and innovates and comes out with an iPad...
Oh wait, no they didn't.
Well surely Acer had success above their wildest dreams using MS Windows tablet as their prototype...
Oh, wait, no they didn't
Well now Acer will have the tablet they need, now that they see what works, thanks to Apple...
Maybe, there is always the diehard PC crowd to cater to that is just waiting for their PC version of an Apple device, once Apple has shown PC how...
Okay, let's be honest amongst ourselves in the forum. Apple hardware costs more than other manufacturers hardware. It may be worth it, it may not. But it is a truism.
If you guys really want to persuade me that I am wrong about all things Apple, don't tell me I'm wrong about everything in the whole world. It weakens your point.
Fine, but the point about the cliche'd "apple tax" remains the same. You foolishly spew that term (as do many others) as if there is no added value to justify the higher price. I'll take the security and simplicity of OSX over windows any day, at any price.
You mean like they give away iPods?
Here's my rant on Apple iPod give-aways. When they give you a "free" iPod with your computer, they make you buy the iPod and apply for a "rebate." That way they can say they "sold" x-number of iPods, including the ones they give away. They shouldn't to that. It makes them seem slimy.
Kind of off topic, but I agree with your assessment. It is a very non-Apple way of doing things. On the other hand, I don't think the intention is to boost sales numbers. How much boosting do you need to do when you own the market?
I think even if they just bundled the Mac and iPod together and sold them as one, the iPod would still count as sold. Don't have to do a rebate for that to happen do they? Any corporate CFOs out there?
Hmmm does Acre have a war chest of billions in the bank... ....
US$ or Taiwanese dollars?
If the latter, make sure to divide by 32.
The guy is using the word to mean that he just hates Apple.
Ha, and by "hate" you mean "is secretly envious," just like all these executives. They'd kill to have a Mac, nobody actually "likes" windows better. But obviously an Acer exec can't be seen rockin' a macbook.
They are the second-largest computer company in the world. Their unit shipments dwarf those of Apple.
But all we care about is Apple, so it is easy to miss what is going on in the world around us.
Nope. I have an Acer laptop and it's pants. Very popular computer over here in the UK, but it doesn't exactly inspire individuals to build websites and debate it's form factor. Chalk and cheese my friend.
Acer needs to worry about Acer. Apple probably sold more iPads this year than Acer sold computers.
"Worldwide PC shipments reached 82.9 million units in the second quarter of 2010, a 20.7 percent increase from the second quarter of 2009."
http://darangedshaman.com/2010/07/19...pc-unit-sales/
I don't think that Apple has sold over 300 million iPads, but it doesn't really matter. Just because Acer blsws away Apple in sales in every single category they compete in is irrelevant.
Apple gets the highest prices and the most profit from each sale. As consumers, that is what is important.
steve our master gave us at least 5 miracle products
with one fantastic lean mean SW os to tie them all together.
My buddy had to buy his wife and kids computers for school << grades 10th thru 2 yr college >>
got 5 free touches base models no upgrades.
Some one at apple sent an extra box for his family filled with goodies like t shirts stickers and stuff. All 5 MB were pre installed with free SW.
Suck in the bottom of the case was a handwritten card stating
>>THANK YOU FROM APPLE <<.
Apple understands that taking great care of its clients is good for APPLE.
why you hate apple so much and need to throw oil and sand in our eyes daily is beyond me.
peace
9
So giving away stuff for free makes for good customer service? Sounds great to me. How can I get in on this free stuff? When I walk into the Apple store I get a really good price. FULL PRICE.
And how am I throwing oil and sand in your face? By telling the truth the way it is? No one here has refuted one of my points. All you do is cry like fanboys cause I picked on your leader. I call em as I see em. Deal with it. Jobs is not a Jedi master. He is a CEO and he is supposed to be making great products for his users, not telling them what the can and cannot do with his walled garden OS.
Did I make it clear enough for you? Or do you want to have another piece of Apple pie and live in the glass house?
Open platform - depends on your defination of open. According to every manufacturer (other than Apple of course) MS and Google are open because they run on their hardware. So by that defination Apple is closed. THANK GOD for that.
But speaking of Google's openness. One should read TechRepublic's article on this. Google may be "open" but Google has put the consumer movement behind by years.
When Apple iphone was first available on AT&T, Apple convinced AT&T not to put their brand name on the phone and not to install their crapware on the phone. That set the direction for the US handset market to move to the open markets of Europe where the model is very successful.
After the failure of Nexus by HTC Google basically gave up and allowed Verizon to install all kinds of junk on the Android phone. It also allowed Verizon to nickle and dime the consumers to death.
So in reality Apple is far more open than Google and thanks to Google we will have a few more years of CRAPWARE to deal with.
Thanks Google. We love you so much.
Here is a link to the article about how Google screwed consumers. Read and Weep.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/the-di...60?tag=nl.e550
Point.
This time last year apple's iPods had a 73% market share. Impressive 3 out of every 4 personal music players were an iPod. Even after Microsoft and Samsung (among every other manufacturer) released their "iPod killers". MP3 players that boasted features better then then iPod. Fine and dandy but they first tried to release their own OS. But in the end reverted to making their products look pretty damn similar to the iPod.... In an attempt to get a piece of that available 27% market share. The stand alone products with their own designs died off quickly... Where the manufacturers who have a piece of the 27%MS are basically IPod clones.
Fast forward to today. The same companies may have a larger market share then the iPhone but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that their products are still pretty damn similar to the iPhone. Before the iPhone... Almost no one had a touch screen. Now, everyone has one and has plans to make it "better". They are still playing the iPod game in the smart phone business. These companies are afraid of apple getting the same 73% market share in the smart phone. No? Why are they comparing their products to the next Apple product? You rarely ever hear RIM bashing Nokia or Google. There's almost an unwritten rule where these super companies can't allow Apple to get over 20%MS. Classic case of kicking them when they're down. (See: antennagate).
Fast forward even further. To the iPad. Without even having to dwell too swept into this one. I'm predicting a trend. These same companies are chasing Apple right from the get go. Finding things wrong with the Apple product (See: antennagate but this time replace it with Open Source) even before they, themselves have released a product. And even when they do, who is willing to bet that they will be a spitting image of the iPad? A few might dare to make one that is their own, sure. But a short life span tends to follow products that attempt this. (See: iPod 2001-2010 and any competitors).
Why do apple products do so well? Because they're quality units (yes, with occasional defects, no one is perfect.) that run off of basically the same OS. The transition between an iPod to an iPhone to an iPad to a Mac takes minutes to adjust. This seamless gap is what I think makes Apple products so good. You can hand an iPad to a 4 year old and within these minutes they could figure it how to launch an app and basically make it do what they want. No hidden button presses to do simple tasks. This is also key for the apps in iOS, I believe that apples regulation of apps is to continue across the simplicity of it all. How many of you have installed Linux in the past only to never use it again? (I'm not saying that Linux is bad, it required more tweaking then what I needed in an OS.) And how many have searched for hours on how to do stuff in Windows? Their control panel almost requires you to have a PhD in order to find what you're looking for. Want to find something in MacOS? Click into the settings 'app'. And voilÃ*. The simplicity is key.
So yes, I agree that apples market share will eventually drop in the tablet market. But formsimplicitys sake, it won't drop as low as 20%. If the open source thing really bugs you that much, a bunch of pirates are devoted to the jailbreak. The underground app militia isn't going anywhere and are making sure to accommodate to the users who like the simplicity but have the tweaking urge of the Linux users.
A fanboi is someone who will only stick by the good. A supporter is someone who can see that grey area and embrace the products for what they need. (See: antennagate and cross reference it with the sales numbers of the iPhone 4) same will happen with the iPad. It will eventually lose ground but apple is accommodating those who find that Product A accommodates their needs better then Product B without the need of releasing product C, D, E, F and G just to accommodate the wants that their product B doesn't support. (refrenxin the 7 current models of RIM Blackberries, And [couldn't find an exact number of android phones]. but last time I checked the amount of iOS devices ever totaled 7(?) With only the new IPod touch, iphone 3GS, iPhone 4, and iPad being the current models. Over 4 years they have only dropped 3 devices into their non-current list. RIM seems to do a drop of this magnitude monthly.... It's a wonder apple even holds a 22% market share in the smart phone industry, their 4 models of iPhones are severely dwarfed by the amount of phones the other guys have. So I'm thinking that this number alone goes to show that people just really don't care about the "open source factor". I believe that the iPad not supporting open source won't hurt it's market share like these big boy smack talkers seem to think (See: antennagate). It's all about the simplicity, Apples designs definitely mimic their OS. Sometimes less really is more.
Stop quoting Blackintosh. Just go to User CP -> Edit Ignore List instead.
I hate it when people respond to trolls. It is worse than the troll himslef.
Additionally, Apple offers the development software for free and the iOS has large chunks of opensource software such as BSD, OpenGL and others. Apple's degree of control helps maintain a degree of quality and security on their products as well as nurturing its developing community. This influence over the development, app store, OS and hardware offers many advantages to developers and customers. The whole "closed platform" hand wringing nonsense is getting very old. It will all come down to the value created for the customer and the experience of using the product. This has been reflected by both Apple's excellent sales numbers and profits.
If "more open" options want to compete, they have a lot of work ahead of them but all the power to them. Competition is a good thing.
Okay, let's be honest amongst ourselves in the forum. Apple hardware costs more than other manufacturers hardware. It may be worth it, it may not. But it is a truism.
If you guys really want to persuade me that I am wrong about all things Apple, don't tell me I'm wrong about everything in the whole world. It weakens your point.
Okay, let's start with the absolutism you often manifest. Look at what you said. In the comment that you responded to I specifically said I agreed with your premise. Your response is that I said you are "wrong about all things Apple . . . wrong about everything in the whole world." That kind of overreaction seems juvenile and makes it hard to take you seriously.
I am all for debating points that are debatable, but setting up a straw man and knocking it down will not help you be taken seriously here. I say this with respect and the hope that you will consider it.
while i have no interest in buying this stuff, you've left off some decent tablets:
Exo PC, Slate, ink adam, ICD Ultra...
Every one of those is still vaporware tho isn't it? The only current competition is certainly proving to be pretty awful.
You mean like they give away iPods?
Here's my rant on Apple iPod give-aways. When they give you a "free" iPod with your computer, they make you buy the iPod and apply for a "rebate." That way they can say they "sold" x-number of iPods, including the ones they give away. They shouldn't to that. It makes them seem slimy.
I hate rebates, but that is how rebates work. You pay for something upfront, then send the request for the money back. Some stores like Best Buy invoke instant rebates, but that just means they will be the ones requesting the funds from the company. You're still getting an iPod for free in the long run, so what's the issue?
Exactly. Today my 4 year old daughter grabbed my wife's iPad and opened a movie on it. Granted we had let her play with it a while for a few months so she knew her way around. She knows that if she does not like the screen after she taps and icon, to hit the Home button and then start again. She found the Movies icon, clicked and saw her movies there. She then proceeded to click on them and found the volume and scrubber function. 4 years old. No way this would happen on a WinX or Android machine. Apple makes it simple.
That is exactly why the iPad is going to retain 100% market share. Everybody wants a device simple enough to be operated by a 4 year old. Who wants to ever be forced to think about anything? Especially computers?
Yes, because Windows and iPod were SO open compared to Linux. Why doesn't Linux run on every desktop in the world? Because consumers don't care about openness. They want value, utility, and entertainment. Android is looking like it will be a reasonable contender, but nothing is inevitable.
How does one become a bs artist for one of these soon to be rapidly failing former big PC vendors?
Does it just come naturally or do they groom this kind of bs?