I'd be glad to. You're quote was: "All I said was, 1 million users isn't that impressive when you look at the fact that iTunes has 160 million users". To make it not that impressive one would have to assume that the one million downloads would remain static when, of course, anyone who was trying to be entirely accurate or truthful would know that that's not the case. To put it simply ... you left out the fact that the million downloads took place in 48 hours .... just so you could seemingly "back up " your opinion.
Like I have said, if you look at the raw numbers, then yes, it could seem impressive. 1 million users in 24 hours is high, but the fact that you want to ignore is, as a percentage of iTunes users, it is low.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee
That's just as untruthful as if I said: One million downloads in 2 days, hell, that means Ping will have over 180 million users in 1 year.
That's a pretty big assumption, there are a number of iTunes users that are not running iTunes 9, let alone going to upgrade to 10.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee
The point is simply this: The omission of truth is the same as lying, IMHO. Does the phrase .... "The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth" hold any meaning for you?
Isn't that a UK phrase? We don't say that saying in this country, so no, it doesn't really hold any meaning to me.
So their event the other day is called a "press release" now?
Huh? Their event is the event. A press release was given 2 days after the September 1st event. Did I miss something? :scratching head:
Quote:
The Cupertino, Calif., company issued a press release to announce the good news. "One-third of the people who have downloaded iTunes 10 have joined Ping," said Eddy Cue, Apple's vice president of Internet Services. Cue expects the service to continue growing in coming weeks as more people download iTunes 10.
Huh? Their event is the event. A press release is given 2 days after the September 1st event. Did I miss something? :scratching head:
I thought you were referring to the event they held, not some press release. I don't sit around waiting on Apple to make an annoucement about something, so I didn't know they make a "press release"
Ok, since it was a press release, press releases are a marketing tool, you use numbers that make you look good, you don't use numbers that make you look bad. For this example, this is why they used the 1 million number, and not 0.6% of our users. Now since you are the big man always going on about comprehension, do you understand this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07
Like I said... about your reading comprehension.
Nothing wrong with my comprehension, it is just your writing that could be improved.
I thought you were referring to the event they held, not some press release. I don't sit around waiting on Apple to make an annoucement about something, so I didn't know they make a "press release"
No, you don't and you shouldn't. But then again you came to comment on the topic about the press release by Apple...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning
Ok, since it was a press release, press releases are a marketing tool, you use numbers that make you look good, you don't use numbers that make you look bad. For this example, this is why they used the 1 million number, and not 0.6% of our users. Now since you are the big man always going on about comprehension, do you understand this?
You're welcomed to grasp any straw you found.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning
Nothing wrong with my comprehension, it is just your writing that could be improved.
I thought you were referring to the event they held, not some press release. I don't sit around waiting on Apple to make an annoucement about something, so I didn't know they make a "press release"
The thread is about the press release. It's in the first post. So it seems like you're really going out of your way to disputatious.
Quote:
Ok, since it was a press release, press releases are a marketing tool, you use numbers that make you look good, you don't use numbers that make you look bad. For this example, this is why they used the 1 million number, and not 0.6% of our users. Now since you are the big man always going on about comprehension, do you understand this?
Apple announced that it pulled a million users in 48 hours, which is pretty good for a new service. That's a bone standard move, any business would have done exactly that.
The metric of ".6% of total users" is entirely yours, I guess cause it bugs you that Apple might do well? The idea that Apple, or anyone, would ever couch sales in those terms is absurd. The idea that they only did so for "marketing" reasons because of a "press release" (as opposed to what? Financial reporting where companies strive to find the worst possible context within which to describe their business? Maybe Apple should start reporting iPad sales a percentage of the total population of earth?) is insulting to the intelligence of every person on these boards. So again, it seems like you're really reaching just to have something to be negative about.
That's Nice... but I still prefer the ZUNE Marketplace's social networking implementation better at this point, if for no other reason than Apple's iTunes Store model is not well set up to support the kind of true music sharing/socializing system that the ZUNE Marketplace currently utilizes.
That's the beauty of having such a well-implemented subscription service as the ZUNE Pass, something that would severely impact Apple's current - 'you buy'... 'you don't like'... 'Too Bad, We've Already Got Our Money' - iTunes paradigm/scheme.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
It appears that you're unaware that with the Zune Pass the subscriber is afforded 10 songs a month to keep forever (in non-DRM/MP3 format) for their US 14.99 monthly free.
The remaining million + songs are free to use as long as the subscription remains current (effectively reducing the cost of 'all you can download' subscription 256kbs + songs to US 4.99).
Maybe someday Apple will see fit to 'invent' an iPass (or some other Zune Pass competitor) for the iTunes store...
Who Knows
You sir, have utterly missed the point. The Zune and M$ lost the digital music war a long time ago. For all your criticism of the iTunes pay per song approach, it's the most successful digital store in the world--by far.
And no, 10 free songs a month don't "reduce" the subscription cost to $4.99. It's $14.99. Don't play games.
The thing is that you ignore reality. If there was a large demand for a subscription model, that is what Apple would have gone with. They found what most of us already know: On the whole, people want to own their music.
You may think that Zune model is great, but apparently most of the world doesn't.
Sonic Youth is unlikely to yield significant profits for Apple. They will not be invited anytime soon.
Apple customers will get Lady GaGa, Britney Spears et. al. long before they get anything like Sonic Youth or Black Flag or any other high-quality, important, but low-selling artist.
Ya think Willie Dixon will be invited anytime soon? He don't sell shit for Apple.
They will not care about important seminal artists so long as the current pop artists remain in need of promotion.
There is now no way of listing all artists on Ping, as far as I can tell. previously I had been entering an asterisk (*) to list all the artists. This no longer works.
Apple, apparently, has actively removed wildcard searches for artists, presumably to keep people from listing all artists. Obviously they are ashamed of how few artists are actually there right now.
I think it behooves everyone on all sides of this discussion to make sure to at least try to know the facts they put forth rather than just throw them in the ring. Double checking using the internet is a good way to do so, it often only takes a couple minutes to verify many facts.
Thanks. This is exactly what Jeff should be doing in discussions. Please crack the whip on these guys who use conjecture in situations where facts are available.
How long since it's been out? 3 million downloads and a million people signed on in a couple of days. Damn I'd love to have this kind of failure myself.
Failure for an individual and failure for a multi-billion dollar trans-continental Fortune 50 conglomerate are two different things.
For example, if I earned .0000000000000001% of the money that Apple does, I'd be a huge success, but Apple would be a huge failure if they only took in that amount.
The only thing that is decent is the top ten tracks.
Doesn't that imply that the only thing that is decent is access to pop?
I don't often listen to top 10 music, just like I rarely watch any of the top 10 sitcoms on TV or go to see the top 10 screwball comedies in the movie theater.
IMO, the top 10 of anything, ranked by what the unwashed masses enjoy, is rarely of interest. (May exceptions exist, however.)
No, it's not that. Opinions (and choices) are different from facts. There sets of facts that some people from all sides have gotten wrong. What I'm saying is that there are several people here from all sides, I am including DaHarder, and including some of his detractors too, that should all try to get their facts right before forming an opinion about it, or using them in an argument.
.
Thanks again, Jeff. You are a breath of fresh air.
Comments
Oh, it's impressive enough for Apple to give a press release just two days after they introduced it.
So their event the other day is called a "press release" now?
I'd be glad to. You're quote was: "All I said was, 1 million users isn't that impressive when you look at the fact that iTunes has 160 million users". To make it not that impressive one would have to assume that the one million downloads would remain static when, of course, anyone who was trying to be entirely accurate or truthful would know that that's not the case. To put it simply ... you left out the fact that the million downloads took place in 48 hours .... just so you could seemingly "back up " your opinion.
Like I have said, if you look at the raw numbers, then yes, it could seem impressive. 1 million users in 24 hours is high, but the fact that you want to ignore is, as a percentage of iTunes users, it is low.
That's just as untruthful as if I said: One million downloads in 2 days, hell, that means Ping will have over 180 million users in 1 year.
That's a pretty big assumption, there are a number of iTunes users that are not running iTunes 9, let alone going to upgrade to 10.
The point is simply this: The omission of truth is the same as lying, IMHO. Does the phrase .... "The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth" hold any meaning for you?
Isn't that a UK phrase? We don't say that saying in this country, so no, it doesn't really hold any meaning to me.
So their event the other day is called a "press release" now?
Huh? Their event is the event. A press release was given 2 days after the September 1st event. Did I miss something? :scratching head:
The Cupertino, Calif., company issued a press release to announce the good news. "One-third of the people who have downloaded iTunes 10 have joined Ping," said Eddy Cue, Apple's vice president of Internet Services. Cue expects the service to continue growing in coming weeks as more people download iTunes 10.
Like I said... about your reading comprehension.
Huh? Their event is the event. A press release is given 2 days after the September 1st event. Did I miss something? :scratching head:
I thought you were referring to the event they held, not some press release. I don't sit around waiting on Apple to make an annoucement about something, so I didn't know they make a "press release"
Ok, since it was a press release, press releases are a marketing tool, you use numbers that make you look good, you don't use numbers that make you look bad. For this example, this is why they used the 1 million number, and not 0.6% of our users. Now since you are the big man always going on about comprehension, do you understand this?
Like I said... about your reading comprehension.
Nothing wrong with my comprehension, it is just your writing that could be improved.
I thought you were referring to the event they held, not some press release. I don't sit around waiting on Apple to make an annoucement about something, so I didn't know they make a "press release"
No, you don't and you shouldn't. But then again you came to comment on the topic about the press release by Apple...
Ok, since it was a press release, press releases are a marketing tool, you use numbers that make you look good, you don't use numbers that make you look bad. For this example, this is why they used the 1 million number, and not 0.6% of our users. Now since you are the big man always going on about comprehension, do you understand this?
You're welcomed to grasp any straw you found.
Nothing wrong with my comprehension, it is just your writing that could be improved.
Yes, I know it could be improved.
I thought you were referring to the event they held, not some press release. I don't sit around waiting on Apple to make an annoucement about something, so I didn't know they make a "press release"
The thread is about the press release. It's in the first post. So it seems like you're really going out of your way to disputatious.
Ok, since it was a press release, press releases are a marketing tool, you use numbers that make you look good, you don't use numbers that make you look bad. For this example, this is why they used the 1 million number, and not 0.6% of our users. Now since you are the big man always going on about comprehension, do you understand this?
Apple announced that it pulled a million users in 48 hours, which is pretty good for a new service. That's a bone standard move, any business would have done exactly that.
The metric of ".6% of total users" is entirely yours, I guess cause it bugs you that Apple might do well? The idea that Apple, or anyone, would ever couch sales in those terms is absurd. The idea that they only did so for "marketing" reasons because of a "press release" (as opposed to what? Financial reporting where companies strive to find the worst possible context within which to describe their business? Maybe Apple should start reporting iPad sales a percentage of the total population of earth?) is insulting to the intelligence of every person on these boards. So again, it seems like you're really reaching just to have something to be negative about.
That's Nice... but I still prefer the ZUNE Marketplace's social networking implementation better at this point, if for no other reason than Apple's iTunes Store model is not well set up to support the kind of true music sharing/socializing system that the ZUNE Marketplace currently utilizes.
That's the beauty of having such a well-implemented subscription service as the ZUNE Pass, something that would severely impact Apple's current - 'you buy'... 'you don't like'... 'Too Bad, We've Already Got Our Money' - iTunes paradigm/scheme.
It appears that you're unaware that with the Zune Pass the subscriber is afforded 10 songs a month to keep forever (in non-DRM/MP3 format) for their US 14.99 monthly free.
The remaining million + songs are free to use as long as the subscription remains current (effectively reducing the cost of 'all you can download' subscription 256kbs + songs to US 4.99).
Maybe someday Apple will see fit to 'invent' an iPass (or some other Zune Pass competitor) for the iTunes store...
Who Knows
You sir, have utterly missed the point. The Zune and M$ lost the digital music war a long time ago. For all your criticism of the iTunes pay per song approach, it's the most successful digital store in the world--by far.
And no, 10 free songs a month don't "reduce" the subscription cost to $4.99. It's $14.99. Don't play games.
The thing is that you ignore reality. If there was a large demand for a subscription model, that is what Apple would have gone with. They found what most of us already know: On the whole, people want to own their music.
You may think that Zune model is great, but apparently most of the world doesn't.
Wait!!! You mean I can't play them on my iPhone, iPod Touch, iPad, Nano, or Shuffle? Or new AppleTV?
With their ultra-limited codec support?
Probably not.
But if the Sonic Youth got in, i may consider.
Sonic Youth is unlikely to yield significant profits for Apple. They will not be invited anytime soon.
Apple customers will get Lady GaGa, Britney Spears et. al. long before they get anything like Sonic Youth or Black Flag or any other high-quality, important, but low-selling artist.
Ya think Willie Dixon will be invited anytime soon? He don't sell shit for Apple.
They will not care about important seminal artists so long as the current pop artists remain in need of promotion.
With their ultra-limited codec support?
Probably not.
It looks like the songs you get to keep are offered in DRM-free MP3, up to 320kbps.
My wife is not the richest woman in the world, but i chose her, go figure why she pick me, understand what i mean?
No. I think that you may be saying that you guys settle for mediocrity, and that you like Apple, but I doubt you intended it that way.
zune has a social network?
Yes. Long before Apple. Try to keep up.
Apple, apparently, has actively removed wildcard searches for artists, presumably to keep people from listing all artists. Obviously they are ashamed of how few artists are actually there right now.
I think it behooves everyone on all sides of this discussion to make sure to at least try to know the facts they put forth rather than just throw them in the ring. Double checking using the internet is a good way to do so, it often only takes a couple minutes to verify many facts.
Thanks. This is exactly what Jeff should be doing in discussions. Please crack the whip on these guys who use conjecture in situations where facts are available.
@ DaHarder, Postulant, and mplaisance
1. Apple iTunes (where most Apple users get songs) can only be accessed on iOS devices.
Not a very promising start. I access iTunes on a Windows box routinely.
What did Jeff say about facts?
How long since it's been out? 3 million downloads and a million people signed on in a couple of days. Damn I'd love to have this kind of failure myself.
Failure for an individual and failure for a multi-billion dollar trans-continental Fortune 50 conglomerate are two different things.
For example, if I earned .0000000000000001% of the money that Apple does, I'd be a huge success, but Apple would be a huge failure if they only took in that amount.
HTH.
The only thing that is decent is the top ten tracks.
Doesn't that imply that the only thing that is decent is access to pop?
I don't often listen to top 10 music, just like I rarely watch any of the top 10 sitcoms on TV or go to see the top 10 screwball comedies in the movie theater.
IMO, the top 10 of anything, ranked by what the unwashed masses enjoy, is rarely of interest. (May exceptions exist, however.)
No, it's not that. Opinions (and choices) are different from facts. There sets of facts that some people from all sides have gotten wrong. What I'm saying is that there are several people here from all sides, I am including DaHarder, and including some of his detractors too, that should all try to get their facts right before forming an opinion about it, or using them in an argument.
.
Thanks again, Jeff. You are a breath of fresh air.
I mean, this is AppleInsider, do you think we CARE what Zune has or does?
Judging solely by the number of posts discussing Zune, it strikes me that many, many posters care very much what Zune has or does.
Otherwise, nobody would be discussing it.
Indifference is not generally displayed by people posting opinions.
Judging solely by the number of posts discussing Zune, it strikes me that many, many posters care very much what Zune has or does.
Otherwise, nobody would be discussing it.
Indifference is not generally displayed by people posting opinions.
Look at who is talking?
Didn't you wrote that iOS and Macs are sooo non important (in the iOS and android post)?