Apple DOES pay attention to the competition, and it keeps them motivated to be the innovators everyone praises them for.
We're talking about the same company who scorned people for wanting multitasking. Who convinced everyone multitasking is the killer of any mobile device. That it is a performance killing battery hogging feature that only idiots would want. Then Microsoft shows how to implement it on a mobile device with limited resources, and months later Apple has multitasking and they did it better than anyone else.
Apple scorned the way MS did multitasking. Apple favored multitasking that saved state and closed rather than having the application remain active.
Quote:
They're competitors in different ways, but partners in other ways. For instance Intel created WiDi to run on PC laptops, and Apple's response was Airplay.
nVidia is similar. They partner with apple to specially design video cards for Macs, and they are also currently working on mobile GPU's. I remember last year or maybe even the year before that, AI was posting news that Apple was hiring people in this field, and the discussions spoke of what sort of great graphics processing future iphones would have (and how great Apple was for this move lol.)
But that has nothing to do with the discussion.
Quote:
The fact is there are clear examples where competition has motivated Apple's innovation, which was my point. You're talking about wins for Apple, which is great, but even the iPad for example can be shown to be better as a result of what Apple saw competitors doing. Their decision to go with a mobile OS instead of OSX is what was innovative.
I know you're convinced of the opposite being true, but I'm convinced competition to Apple is what keeps them great, and that may be why you think I'm such a troll for showing opinions about what their competitors are doing that go against the popular point of view around here.
Did I ever call you a troll? No. Not once. I have no idea where that comment came from. Come on, dude, I'm not making personal judgments about you. Give me the same courtesy.
How can the competition "motivate" Apple in markets that Apple created? There was no competition. Competition has motivated Apple to improve iPhone and it will motivate Apple to improve iPad, but at the onset, there was no competition.
Throw enough shit at a wall and maybe some of it will stick... that's Acer's tablet strategy.
All of these Android/Win 7/Whatever tablets will have to be delivered with flawless execution. There is no way these companies can give Apple another year without condemning themselves to complete failure.
Win 7??!! Really??!! I'm waiting for the battery times. I can see Ballmer next year... "Battery times, battery times, battery times!!". As mentioned in another comment, the best strategy is probably Win 7 mobile.
Android... the iOS closed system is its downfall??!! Really??!! The frag issue will become even more prominent as the number of tablets grow. Each manufacturer will have to have its own app store.
Flawless execution guys or you will fail to even make a dent.
It is cool that you are putting battery life on top of your priority list, but someone else's top priority might be full compatibility with MS Office, or some other desktop application/suite. I can see that happening, especially for corporate users. And since some netbooks already have 10+ hours of battery life, I would expect smart manufacturer can fit, say, Atom platform with 6 hours battery life in form factor not much thicker than iPad.
Additionally, hardware is getting more and more power efficient (for the same amount of processing power). We just got one Toshiba Portege R700 with i5 CPU in the office and that thing - confirmed - will light work on 6 cell battery for over 8 hours. By the end of 2011, it is my opinion, we will have desktop-performance hardware that will be able to fit in iPad size case and work whole day on battery, negating any reason for sacrificing performance for power.
This might be a sign that netbook sales across the board are bad. They were a good buy for your money in terms of performance or capabilities. You could buy a PC for a little more that was many times more powerful. I think people are realizing that for a satellite computer, a tablet is much a better option than a netbook.
Netbook sales are getting stale, though I think it is more due to Intel Atom not evolving much - almost at all - since its introduction back in 2008.
Last time I upgraded my PC, I went from dual core Athlon 64 to Core 2 Quad - and I did notice the difference. Hell yeah. If I'd to replace my 2 year old Atom based netbook with new one, there would be virtually no difference at all; I really don't have any reason to replace short of my old netbook going dead.
So lacking hardware upgrades for netbook, Acer is looking at form factor "upgrades". And of course, it appears that tablet form factor sells well, so I would really be surprised to see computer manufacturer not trying to make some extra profit on that.
One thing about a theoretical keynote presentation over airplay is that the nature of airplay in general is that it transfers the play to the tv and takes it away from the iPad.
This prevents you from controlling the presentation. You could view it as slideshow but not advance or rewind without taking it off the big screen to adjust the position.
Good point, but if I understand correctly, the Photo app mirrors over AirPlay, so there's no practical reason why Keynote could not do the same, particularly as the new version of Keynote mirrors.
When Jobs said "If I ran Apple I'd milk the Mac for all it's worth and get busy on the next great thing"
those weren't the words of a guy looking at competitors with a mind to make what they're making but somewhat better.
Jobs and Apple are playing a long game with many parts, but they think in terms of big picture systems and skating to where the puck will be. You can't do that by reacting.
Hey Dick, thanks for your research. Your results exactly match mine.
One thing I did discover which somewhat relates to addabox remarks is that if you decide to dedicate the items in the kit you can get a permeant setup by switching to static ip on the router and the aTV. Just hard code a non routable ip and make your own intranet. Since it is so easy to set the iPad to not join other networks the flaky behavior of other wifi can be completely eliminated.
I still think a mifi of some other mobile hotspot is a better solution since you would also have the Internet available. All of this discussion is based on the assumption that Apple will expand airplay to be a universal screen sharing feature because right now it is limited to movies and music.
My personal preference is to have complete self contained presentation system and not have to ask anyone for a password to join their wifi network.
OK!
1) I set up my AirPort Express with a manual IP address: 11.1.1.1
2) I designated it as the router with the same IP Address: 11.1.1.1
3) I set the AppleTV to use the Airport Express.
4) I set the iPad to use the Airport express -- In order to reliably select the Airport Express I had to forget both networks on my Airport Extreme Dual. I think the reason is that these 2 have a more powerful signal and the iPad goes for signal strength.
5) Once forgotten, I had no trouble selecting the Airport Express. The "forgotten" networks still remain defined -- they just aren't scanned for a signal.
6) Streaming from the video app and the photos app worked as expected.
7) I unplugged and replugged the AppleTV and the Airport Express
8) when the AppleTV and Airport Express became active the re-recognized the Airport Express -- though I think is there is too long a delay waiting for the Airport Express, the AppleTV will just act as if no network is available. Then, you must reselect the Airport Express,
9) It doesn't look like the iPad automatically re-recognizes the Airport Express -- you have to re-select it..
10) But it works, and is reasonably straight-forward to set up -- If you have access to an HDMI port on the HDTV * and a couple of wall outlets, you should be able to setup in 5 minutes or less.
* Some HDTVs have a handy HDMI port on the side of the TV making this a no-brainer.
Here are some things I noticed while fiddling with AirPlay (normal setup -- nothing to do with portable ad hoc WiFi network):
1) Both videos app and photos app stop AirPlay when you exit the app (iPad). I swear, that before, I could exit the app, continue streaming in BG and surf the web, etc.
Edit: I had a lot of apps suspended on the iPad, including: NetFlix, Air Video, StreamToMe streamers. After shutting these down, I can AirPlay and surf -- this from my iPad while AirPlaying from the videos app.
But, I can't AirPlay a slideshow from the photos app and browse in the bg.
2) When videos app or photos app finish a stream, the AppleTV selection is reset and you must reselect it after initiating the next video or potots set -- seems like it should stay selected,
Edit: Now I am trying to play a series of Music Videos from the iPod app on the iPad -- to see if it will go from one to another without reselecting the AppleTV... Kinda' a video playlist. Nope! The iPod app works just like the videos and photos app -- a single stream, then quit playing and connection with AppleTV.
3) with videos app, on the inert iPad display (while streaming) if you scrub the video on the iPad, the scrubbed still scene is visible on both the iPad and the HDTV -- I like this, Maybe with a dual-core CPU, or better GPU, the iPad could play the video concurrently with AirPlaying it to the HDTV.
4) A full-length movie takes longer to start. 15-30 seconds, than a short video clip, 3-5 secongs.
5) I started AirPlaying a video on the iPad. Then started AirPlaying a second video from my iP4 (iPod app).
6) The iP4 started playing on the HDTV. But, the iPad video held the connection to the AppleTV
7) I was able to scrub through the video on the iPad and the HDTV would respond to the iPad and scrub to the relative position on the video being streamed from the iP4 -- this really looked weird.
6) it appears that any iDevice can start AirPlaying and usurp any existing AirPlay activity -- there is a password, but that's not robust enough,
I have a friend who is a singer/composer/songwriter -- she has made about 30 music videos. She has an iP4, but no iPad or AppleTV yet,
I think I will make a video of an iPad AirPlaying her repertoire to the AppleTV / HDTV.
It seems like the iPad/AirPlay/AppleTV would be a natural for creatives.
You should probably use one of these IP ranges since the one you chose is a routable IP thus causing the delay. it is trying to resolve it but can't find a wan.
10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.255
172.16.0.0 - 172.31.255.255
192.168.0.0 - 192.168.255.255
These are reserved for just such a situation and no router will attempt to forward them.
Make sure you have no DNS hosts defined. 127.0.0.0 if it requires one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
OK!
1) I set up my AirPort Express with a manual IP address: 11.1.1.1
2) I designated it as the router with the same IP Address: 11.1.1.1
3) I set the AppleTV to use the Airport Express.
4) I set the iPad to use the Airport express -- In order to reliably select the Airport Express I had to forget both networks on my Airport Extreme Dual. I think the reason is that these 2 have a more powerful signal and the iPad goes for signal strength.
5) Once forgotten, I had no trouble selecting the Airport Express. The "forgotten" networks still remain defined -- they just aren't scanned for a signal.
6) Streaming from the video app and the photos app worked as expected.
7) I unplugged and replugged the AppleTV and the Airport Express
8) when the AppleTV and Airport Express became active the re-recognized the Airport Express -- though I think is there is too long a delay waiting for the Airport Express, the AppleTV will just act as if no network is available. Then, you must reselect the Airport Express,
9) It doesn't look like the iPad automatically re-recognizes the Airport Express -- you have to re-select it..
10) But it works, and is reasonably straight-forward to set up -- If you have access to an HDMI port on the HDTV * and a couple of wall outlets, you should be able to setup in 5 minutes or less.
* Some HDTVs have a handy HDMI port on the side of the TV making this a no-brainer.
Comments
Apple DOES pay attention to the competition, and it keeps them motivated to be the innovators everyone praises them for.
We're talking about the same company who scorned people for wanting multitasking. Who convinced everyone multitasking is the killer of any mobile device. That it is a performance killing battery hogging feature that only idiots would want. Then Microsoft shows how to implement it on a mobile device with limited resources, and months later Apple has multitasking and they did it better than anyone else.
Apple scorned the way MS did multitasking. Apple favored multitasking that saved state and closed rather than having the application remain active.
They're competitors in different ways, but partners in other ways. For instance Intel created WiDi to run on PC laptops, and Apple's response was Airplay.
nVidia is similar. They partner with apple to specially design video cards for Macs, and they are also currently working on mobile GPU's. I remember last year or maybe even the year before that, AI was posting news that Apple was hiring people in this field, and the discussions spoke of what sort of great graphics processing future iphones would have (and how great Apple was for this move lol.)
But that has nothing to do with the discussion.
The fact is there are clear examples where competition has motivated Apple's innovation, which was my point. You're talking about wins for Apple, which is great, but even the iPad for example can be shown to be better as a result of what Apple saw competitors doing. Their decision to go with a mobile OS instead of OSX is what was innovative.
I know you're convinced of the opposite being true, but I'm convinced competition to Apple is what keeps them great, and that may be why you think I'm such a troll for showing opinions about what their competitors are doing that go against the popular point of view around here.
Did I ever call you a troll? No. Not once. I have no idea where that comment came from. Come on, dude, I'm not making personal judgments about you. Give me the same courtesy.
How can the competition "motivate" Apple in markets that Apple created? There was no competition. Competition has motivated Apple to improve iPhone and it will motivate Apple to improve iPad, but at the onset, there was no competition.
Throw enough shit at a wall and maybe some of it will stick... that's Acer's tablet strategy.
All of these Android/Win 7/Whatever tablets will have to be delivered with flawless execution. There is no way these companies can give Apple another year without condemning themselves to complete failure.
Win 7??!! Really??!! I'm waiting for the battery times. I can see Ballmer next year... "Battery times, battery times, battery times!!". As mentioned in another comment, the best strategy is probably Win 7 mobile.
Android... the iOS closed system is its downfall??!! Really??!! The frag issue will become even more prominent as the number of tablets grow. Each manufacturer will have to have its own app store.
Flawless execution guys or you will fail to even make a dent.
It is cool that you are putting battery life on top of your priority list, but someone else's top priority might be full compatibility with MS Office, or some other desktop application/suite. I can see that happening, especially for corporate users. And since some netbooks already have 10+ hours of battery life, I would expect smart manufacturer can fit, say, Atom platform with 6 hours battery life in form factor not much thicker than iPad.
Additionally, hardware is getting more and more power efficient (for the same amount of processing power). We just got one Toshiba Portege R700 with i5 CPU in the office and that thing - confirmed - will light work on 6 cell battery for over 8 hours. By the end of 2011, it is my opinion, we will have desktop-performance hardware that will be able to fit in iPad size case and work whole day on battery, negating any reason for sacrificing performance for power.
If netbooks are so much more powerful, useful than tablets than why would Acer even consider jumping into this market. Surely this must a mistake.
To make some more money?
This is hardly about what is more powerful - or even more useful. It is only about what people are buying these days.
This might be a sign that netbook sales across the board are bad. They were a good buy for your money in terms of performance or capabilities. You could buy a PC for a little more that was many times more powerful. I think people are realizing that for a satellite computer, a tablet is much a better option than a netbook.
Netbook sales are getting stale, though I think it is more due to Intel Atom not evolving much - almost at all - since its introduction back in 2008.
Last time I upgraded my PC, I went from dual core Athlon 64 to Core 2 Quad - and I did notice the difference. Hell yeah. If I'd to replace my 2 year old Atom based netbook with new one, there would be virtually no difference at all; I really don't have any reason to replace short of my old netbook going dead.
So lacking hardware upgrades for netbook, Acer is looking at form factor "upgrades". And of course, it appears that tablet form factor sells well, so I would really be surprised to see computer manufacturer not trying to make some extra profit on that.
One thing about a theoretical keynote presentation over airplay is that the nature of airplay in general is that it transfers the play to the tv and takes it away from the iPad.
This prevents you from controlling the presentation. You could view it as slideshow but not advance or rewind without taking it off the big screen to adjust the position.
Good point, but if I understand correctly, the Photo app mirrors over AirPlay, so there's no practical reason why Keynote could not do the same, particularly as the new version of Keynote mirrors.
When Jobs said "If I ran Apple I'd milk the Mac for all it's worth and get busy on the next great thing"
those weren't the words of a guy looking at competitors with a mind to make what they're making but somewhat better.
Jobs and Apple are playing a long game with many parts, but they think in terms of big picture systems and skating to where the puck will be. You can't do that by reacting.
Right on! My thoughts exactly.
Hey Dick, thanks for your research. Your results exactly match mine.
One thing I did discover which somewhat relates to addabox remarks is that if you decide to dedicate the items in the kit you can get a permeant setup by switching to static ip on the router and the aTV. Just hard code a non routable ip and make your own intranet. Since it is so easy to set the iPad to not join other networks the flaky behavior of other wifi can be completely eliminated.
I still think a mifi of some other mobile hotspot is a better solution since you would also have the Internet available. All of this discussion is based on the assumption that Apple will expand airplay to be a universal screen sharing feature because right now it is limited to movies and music.
My personal preference is to have complete self contained presentation system and not have to ask anyone for a password to join their wifi network.
OK!
1) I set up my AirPort Express with a manual IP address: 11.1.1.1
2) I designated it as the router with the same IP Address: 11.1.1.1
3) I set the AppleTV to use the Airport Express.
4) I set the iPad to use the Airport express -- In order to reliably select the Airport Express I had to forget both networks on my Airport Extreme Dual. I think the reason is that these 2 have a more powerful signal and the iPad goes for signal strength.
5) Once forgotten, I had no trouble selecting the Airport Express. The "forgotten" networks still remain defined -- they just aren't scanned for a signal.
6) Streaming from the video app and the photos app worked as expected.
7) I unplugged and replugged the AppleTV and the Airport Express
8) when the AppleTV and Airport Express became active the re-recognized the Airport Express -- though I think is there is too long a delay waiting for the Airport Express, the AppleTV will just act as if no network is available. Then, you must reselect the Airport Express,
9) It doesn't look like the iPad automatically re-recognizes the Airport Express -- you have to re-select it..
10) But it works, and is reasonably straight-forward to set up -- If you have access to an HDMI port on the HDTV * and a couple of wall outlets, you should be able to setup in 5 minutes or less.
* Some HDTVs have a handy HDMI port on the side of the TV making this a no-brainer.
Here are some things I noticed while fiddling with AirPlay (normal setup -- nothing to do with portable ad hoc WiFi network):
1) Both videos app and photos app stop AirPlay when you exit the app (iPad). I swear, that before, I could exit the app, continue streaming in BG and surf the web, etc.
Edit: I had a lot of apps suspended on the iPad, including: NetFlix, Air Video, StreamToMe streamers. After shutting these down, I can AirPlay and surf -- this from my iPad while AirPlaying from the videos app.
But, I can't AirPlay a slideshow from the photos app and browse in the bg.
2) When videos app or photos app finish a stream, the AppleTV selection is reset and you must reselect it after initiating the next video or potots set -- seems like it should stay selected,
Edit: Now I am trying to play a series of Music Videos from the iPod app on the iPad -- to see if it will go from one to another without reselecting the AppleTV... Kinda' a video playlist. Nope! The iPod app works just like the videos and photos app -- a single stream, then quit playing and connection with AppleTV.
3) with videos app, on the inert iPad display (while streaming) if you scrub the video on the iPad, the scrubbed still scene is visible on both the iPad and the HDTV -- I like this, Maybe with a dual-core CPU, or better GPU, the iPad could play the video concurrently with AirPlaying it to the HDTV.
4) A full-length movie takes longer to start. 15-30 seconds, than a short video clip, 3-5 secongs.
5) I started AirPlaying a video on the iPad. Then started AirPlaying a second video from my iP4 (iPod app).
6) The iP4 started playing on the HDTV. But, the iPad video held the connection to the AppleTV
7) I was able to scrub through the video on the iPad and the HDTV would respond to the iPad and scrub to the relative position on the video being streamed from the iP4 -- this really looked weird.
6) it appears that any iDevice can start AirPlaying and usurp any existing AirPlay activity -- there is a password, but that's not robust enough,
I have a friend who is a singer/composer/songwriter -- she has made about 30 music videos. She has an iP4, but no iPad or AppleTV yet,
I think I will make a video of an iPad AirPlaying her repertoire to the AppleTV / HDTV.
It seems like the iPad/AirPlay/AppleTV would be a natural for creatives.
10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.255
172.16.0.0 - 172.31.255.255
192.168.0.0 - 192.168.255.255
These are reserved for just such a situation and no router will attempt to forward them.
Make sure you have no DNS hosts defined. 127.0.0.0 if it requires one.
OK!
1) I set up my AirPort Express with a manual IP address: 11.1.1.1
2) I designated it as the router with the same IP Address: 11.1.1.1
3) I set the AppleTV to use the Airport Express.
4) I set the iPad to use the Airport express -- In order to reliably select the Airport Express I had to forget both networks on my Airport Extreme Dual. I think the reason is that these 2 have a more powerful signal and the iPad goes for signal strength.
5) Once forgotten, I had no trouble selecting the Airport Express. The "forgotten" networks still remain defined -- they just aren't scanned for a signal.
6) Streaming from the video app and the photos app worked as expected.
7) I unplugged and replugged the AppleTV and the Airport Express
8) when the AppleTV and Airport Express became active the re-recognized the Airport Express -- though I think is there is too long a delay waiting for the Airport Express, the AppleTV will just act as if no network is available. Then, you must reselect the Airport Express,
9) It doesn't look like the iPad automatically re-recognizes the Airport Express -- you have to re-select it..
10) But it works, and is reasonably straight-forward to set up -- If you have access to an HDMI port on the HDTV * and a couple of wall outlets, you should be able to setup in 5 minutes or less.
* Some HDTVs have a handy HDMI port on the side of the TV making this a no-brainer.