Back to the Apple thing, what amazes me about people in senior positions at companies who's stock has gone gangbusters is why do they stay. If I'd made as much money on stock options as they will have, there is no way I'd be doing anything other than flying my plane, or sitting on a beach.
That said, my attitude is probably why I'll never be at the top of an organization
No doubt. Athletes, corporate execs, wherever - give me a nice $10-500 mil payday and I'm OUT. See you on the beach!
My slightly later post clarified my thoughts a little better ... I'm suspecting the OS X team is being guided more and more by the iOS team and perhaps that is a point at which the OS X grand old master graciously steps aside. I wish him well and much thanks for everything he has done. I also hope there is a subcutaneous chip in him that SJ can explode if he joins Microsoft ... KIDDING....
I wouldn't read so much into it. The guy taking over gave on-stage talks already, that means very likely they have been grooming him for the seat and the swap has been a planned event.
iOS and OS X have different UI layers, but the same basic underlying architecture. I don't see Apple wanting to break that, it's too valuable from an investment in the future standpoint.
I should have worded that slightly differently, I meant ... perhaps the iOS team gaining a degree of control over OS X's destiny. Kind of like the old Mac versus Lisa team thing.
You make a valid point. It could be a combination of the iOS team gaining a degree of control plus the fact that Serlet wants to focus more on science. With Lion being a good OS release the time is probably right for the transition.
Even if another company wanted to hire him they probably couldn't afford the guy with the millions he's made with his salary + stock compensation. 22 years is a long time to work for one company. People eventually do move on.
My point is that OS X is a lot closer to the future I'm describing than stripped down, locked version of OS X that we know as iOS.
Oh for goodness sake, can we drop the debate of what is going to turn into what. MacOS X is made for computers that have a wide variety of uses and evolved since time before the Internet where security didn't need to be the top priority, and the average user base knew how to fix things themselves.
iOS is made for ultraportable devices that are marketed like appliances and suitable for extreme novices so they have restrictions that stop people from messing up their machines.
I swear, if some of you "iOS is too restrictive, it'd better not migrate to the desktop" people were designing toasters, the customer would have to open the side panel, remove a resistor and put in another one and adjust the distance of the elements to the toast with a screwdriver if they wanted their toast a little browner one day.
Now instead of being a European socialist OS, OSX can go back to being an American liberty OS like Mac OS 7! No longer will our programs be burdened by some big bortheresque, central planning OS that tells them how much of the CPU they can get and when, or which memory they write to and which they can't. Let freedom ring, baby!!
For such a smart person, profanity does not communicate, only irritates.
I've never understood the hangups some people have with "profanity". They act like their heads will explode if they hear or read certain words. Language is about expression, and sometimes the best way to express something is to use a word that some people consider "profane".
My problem is that I realised that at 22! That actually makes things harder when you figure this stuff out when you're still young! Or maybe I'm just a hippie or have been one all along...
I'm 33 this year, enough savings to not have to work for a year, quitting my job soon, but really needing to refocus the career on this tablet stuff. Web was 2000-2010. Mobile is 2011-2020. Time to shift gears from PHP to... ??????
One thing though... I'm not a corporate type, I'm not management type. Creative, concept, marketing, dreamer type. That's another problem there! Or... Crisis-tunity!!
You are more my kind of people. Did you by any chance listen to Steve Jobs Stanford Speech a few years back? He talked about the time for reflection, the "lazy moments".
No doubt. Athletes, corporate execs, wherever - give me a nice $10-500 mil payday and I'm OUT. See you on the beach!
If Apple gave you those millions, plus all the resources of the world's most innovative company, tell me you wouldn't stick around to play. There must be something on your Apple wish list you'd like to see released. Making stuff happen is exciting.
If they offered the job to me, the first thing I'd have to do is make a list. You wouldn't see me for weeks!
Wow. I wonder how you would react to Stephen Hawkings.
Some of the greatest minds in the world do not present themselves well as the greatest speakers. A great number of them became Nobel Prize winners or in their chosen fields. This did not impact how those in their field understood them.
I remember meeting someone at a research lab that I visited for a few weeks. I thought he was just one of the graduate students working there, very friendly but more reticent. Then, for some reason, many years later, he either recognized me or just saw me as just as not into small talk in a conference. I was more at the big aquarium of the Boston Aquarium just feeling out of place with all the bigwigs in the conference.
He approached me this time and engaged me into a non-technical conversation. I do not remember now what we talked about. We were interrupted only when the Chairman of the Conference talked to him. I was surprised to find out when he was called in the podium as the honored guest of the evening. It turned out, he was not only a member of the US National Academy of Sciences but also a member of the National Academy of Engineering (or some other elite academy). It is a very rare feat to become a member of the National Academy of Sciences, let alone to be a member also of the National Academy of Engineering. Even full professors at many prestigious universities including Harvard who are recognized as the top tiers in their fields do not get elected as member of these elite academies.
It turned out this rather shy and reticent guy is the basic holder of many basic patents that govern even many derivative inventions even of big corporations like Dupont and Pharmaceuticals. I requested his CV at some point a few years later, and he did not hesitate to send it to me, and it was almost an inch-thick. His patents alone was several pages.
When you are student or become involved in research and technology, you meet many kinds of these people in seminars and conferences. Many could barely could speak fluent English or speak in correct grammar, as many of them are foreigners. They could be rambling too. One I knew even use a copy editor to improve his written work before submission to journals. But, if you focus too much on their speaking voice, or that they are slow or they ramble -- you will miss a lot learning from them.
Are you for real? Whatever profession are you in?
You obviously have not met some of the greatest minds in the world. This is true in any field. Not being able to speak proper English has never been a criteria in serious fields when it comes to public speaking. Some of them even get standing room only, if you can squeeze in. Some are very much in demand to be invited guest speakers in conferences and featured seminars very common in universities and research institutions.
You actually equate savvy speaking with success in communication? I bet charlatans would mesmerize you.
As important as speech is in "popularity contest" arenas, if speech were the litmus test, many great people would not pass your shallow mindedness.
CGC
Gesh, you got all that because the guy had a hard time understanding him as public speaker. He didn't call him the devil or anything, while you... ah never mind. Sorry for the thread interruption everyone.
I've never understood the hangups some people have with "profanity". They act like their heads will explode if they hear or read certain words. Language is about expression, and sometimes the best way to express something is to use a word that some people consider "profane".
Perhaps, but that should be pretty rare and thats the issue. Is there really anything said here that warrants profanity? That is such a large outrage to warrant such an exclaimation of disagreement?
Or perhaps, just perhaps, we should use reasoned discourse... ah... &uck it.
What you write might be true for a socially awkward nuclear scientist or Noble Prize winner giving a lecture to his peers, which would also consist of socially awkward academics. The same cannot be said for somebody who is presenting products for Apple, which is a commercial company seeking to promote and sell their products, as the intended target audience is much more mainstream and completely different from a bunch of socially inept academics.
Jesus, don't put your foot into your mouth any farther, it may reach your "a--".
Those you disdain will have more lasting impact than you can ever imagine, long after you are simply dust. They actually made a difference in this world and contributed to the betterment of mankind than you and I can ever dream of.
Your xenophobia revealed in another thread just keeps popping out more.
Socialist? Do you even understand what that means, from what you just posted?
Did you know that Isaac Newton was what you would call socially inept? Assuming of course that you ever heard of him.
By the way, many of these people are not socially inept. You may even feel so inept if you actually met them, because in all their quiet disposition many of them exude surety of their conviction and accomplishments.
If your world is Apple, you surely have a very limited scope. Try to look at the definition of inept sometimes. You might have a better understanding and appreciation of the meaning of socially inept.
By the way it is "Nobel" after a person. Although a number of Nobel Prize winners are indeed noble.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15
Gesh, you got all that because the guy had a hard time understanding him as public speaker. He didn't call him the devil or anything, while you... ah never mind. Sorry for the thread interruption everyone.
Read some of the other posts of Apple ][. By the way, quite a number of Americans have a field day making a profession poking fun at non-English speakers.
Oh for goodness sake, can we drop the debate of what is going to turn into what. MacOS X is made for computers that have a wide variety of uses and evolved since time before the Internet where security didn't need to be the top priority, and the average user base knew how to fix things themselves.
iOS is made for ultraportable devices that are marketed like appliances and suitable for extreme novices so they have restrictions that stop people from messing up their machines.
I swear, if some of you "iOS is too restrictive, it'd better not migrate to the desktop" people were designing toasters, the customer would have to open the side panel, remove a resistor and put in another one and adjust the distance of the elements to the toast with a screwdriver if they wanted their toast a little browner one day.
And people like you would design a toaster that only makes one kind of toast. If you want a a slightly darker kind of toast, you go to a store and buy a new one.
Ironically, the "toasters" apple now sells (their iDevices) are like the toasters you describe. If you only want the kind of toast Apple wants you to have, you are fine, but if you want a darker toast you need to jailbreak your toaster, pull out the toolbox and start changing resistors .
What demise. The two systems are just different faces of the same core OS. Each optimized for the devices and uses needed. While they might bleed over in a few ways, neither is going to 'kill' the other. They will evolve as needed.
Partial quote...
My following posts expanded and explained. I didn't mean how you took it.
Perhaps, but that should be pretty rare and thats the issue. Is there really anything said here that warrants profanity? That is such a large outrage to warrant such an exclaimation of disagreement?
Or perhaps, just perhaps, we should use reasoned discourse... ah... &uck it.
What profanity? Why the hangup on certain words as taboo? What harm will in fact come to anyone because these words are spoken or written? None. So, objecting to them is simply irrational.
It's not like he's uttering the name of god or something prohibited by the divinity, if you believe in that sort of thing.
Those you disdain will have more lasting impact than you can ever imagine, long after you are simply dust. They actually made a difference in this world and contributed to the betterment of mankind than you and I can ever dream of.
I don't disdain them. Some of those people are pretty brilliant. You are drawing some pretty far reaching conclusions which are patently absurd, bordering on the comical to say the least.
Somebody can be a genius and also be a piss poor public speaker, that's all that has been stated. And why do you mention 'socialist'? I have written nothing about any socialists in this thread. You seem to be quite angry, which is apparently affecting your ability to properly comprehend what is being written to the point of even imaging words that have never been written.
And I know perfectly well who Alfred Nobel is, though the prize has lost a bit of it's prestige in recent years, due to it being awarded to people who have done nothing to deserve it, especially in the political field, though I won't mention any names here.
This IS a minefield...there are those who are confident enough in their identity, background, upbringing etc who don't feel the need to pretend, Bertrand Serlet is a good example of a native French speaker who has obviously spent a great deal of time based in the US but still sounds French, Arsene Wenger is another good example. Both, I would say, travel well.
A couple of years ago, I heard Madonna being interviewed and there was hardly a trace of NY in her voice although at the time she had only been living here a short while. Nigel kennedy used to speak with an almost cut glass English accent till he decided to go all Mockney to connect wiv da kids no doubt. He currently stays in Budapest so I imagine he's gone native Magyar by now.
Lulu, when she found fame, couldn't lose her Scottish accent quick enough but when she does come back to Scotland her 'Glaswegian' is turned on like a tap.
I'd say those three DON'T travel well...IMO, of course!
Ah, Lulu, such memories
The biggest shock I got was hearing Christian Bale speak at the Oscars. Not what I expected at all ... but hey it's his native 'speak' so good for him.
Also, please no "Frenchman immediately surrendering" jokes. Serlet's not the type to give up or Jobs wouldn't have hired him.
The only people voicing these "Frenchman immediately surrendering" xenophobic "jokes" are conditioned bigots brainwashed enough to ignore the more than 1.500.000 french soldiers KIA fighting the Germans for the last century alone, that the French actually won for them their American Revolution at Yorktown, etc. What's just sad is that they seem -as you point out- incredibly numerous, reflecting the sorry state of education and History knowledge in the USA...
Comments
Back to the Apple thing, what amazes me about people in senior positions at companies who's stock has gone gangbusters is why do they stay. If I'd made as much money on stock options as they will have, there is no way I'd be doing anything other than flying my plane, or sitting on a beach.
That said, my attitude is probably why I'll never be at the top of an organization
No doubt. Athletes, corporate execs, wherever - give me a nice $10-500 mil payday and I'm OUT. See you on the beach!
My slightly later post clarified my thoughts a little better ... I'm suspecting the OS X team is being guided more and more by the iOS team and perhaps that is a point at which the OS X grand old master graciously steps aside. I wish him well and much thanks for everything he has done. I also hope there is a subcutaneous chip in him that SJ can explode if he joins Microsoft ... KIDDING....
I wouldn't read so much into it. The guy taking over gave on-stage talks already, that means very likely they have been grooming him for the seat and the swap has been a planned event.
iOS and OS X have different UI layers, but the same basic underlying architecture. I don't see Apple wanting to break that, it's too valuable from an investment in the future standpoint.
I should have worded that slightly differently, I meant ... perhaps the iOS team gaining a degree of control over OS X's destiny. Kind of like the old Mac versus Lisa team thing.
You make a valid point. It could be a combination of the iOS team gaining a degree of control plus the fact that Serlet wants to focus more on science. With Lion being a good OS release the time is probably right for the transition.
Even if another company wanted to hire him they probably couldn't afford the guy with the millions he's made with his salary + stock compensation. 22 years is a long time to work for one company. People eventually do move on.
My point is that OS X is a lot closer to the future I'm describing than stripped down, locked version of OS X that we know as iOS.
Oh for goodness sake, can we drop the debate of what is going to turn into what. MacOS X is made for computers that have a wide variety of uses and evolved since time before the Internet where security didn't need to be the top priority, and the average user base knew how to fix things themselves.
iOS is made for ultraportable devices that are marketed like appliances and suitable for extreme novices so they have restrictions that stop people from messing up their machines.
I swear, if some of you "iOS is too restrictive, it'd better not migrate to the desktop" people were designing toasters, the customer would have to open the side panel, remove a resistor and put in another one and adjust the distance of the elements to the toast with a screwdriver if they wanted their toast a little browner one day.
For such a smart person, profanity does not communicate, only irritates.
I've never understood the hangups some people have with "profanity". They act like their heads will explode if they hear or read certain words. Language is about expression, and sometimes the best way to express something is to use a word that some people consider "profane".
My problem is that I realised that at 22! That actually makes things harder when you figure this stuff out when you're still young! Or maybe I'm just a hippie or have been one all along...
I'm 33 this year, enough savings to not have to work for a year, quitting my job soon, but really needing to refocus the career on this tablet stuff. Web was 2000-2010. Mobile is 2011-2020. Time to shift gears from PHP to... ??????
One thing though... I'm not a corporate type, I'm not management type. Creative, concept, marketing, dreamer type. That's another problem there! Or... Crisis-tunity!!
You are more my kind of people. Did you by any chance listen to Steve Jobs Stanford Speech a few years back? He talked about the time for reflection, the "lazy moments".
No doubt. Athletes, corporate execs, wherever - give me a nice $10-500 mil payday and I'm OUT. See you on the beach!
If Apple gave you those millions, plus all the resources of the world's most innovative company, tell me you wouldn't stick around to play. There must be something on your Apple wish list you'd like to see released. Making stuff happen is exciting.
If they offered the job to me, the first thing I'd have to do is make a list. You wouldn't see me for weeks!
Wow. I wonder how you would react to Stephen Hawkings.
Some of the greatest minds in the world do not present themselves well as the greatest speakers. A great number of them became Nobel Prize winners or in their chosen fields. This did not impact how those in their field understood them.
I remember meeting someone at a research lab that I visited for a few weeks. I thought he was just one of the graduate students working there, very friendly but more reticent. Then, for some reason, many years later, he either recognized me or just saw me as just as not into small talk in a conference. I was more at the big aquarium of the Boston Aquarium just feeling out of place with all the bigwigs in the conference.
He approached me this time and engaged me into a non-technical conversation. I do not remember now what we talked about. We were interrupted only when the Chairman of the Conference talked to him. I was surprised to find out when he was called in the podium as the honored guest of the evening. It turned out, he was not only a member of the US National Academy of Sciences but also a member of the National Academy of Engineering (or some other elite academy). It is a very rare feat to become a member of the National Academy of Sciences, let alone to be a member also of the National Academy of Engineering. Even full professors at many prestigious universities including Harvard who are recognized as the top tiers in their fields do not get elected as member of these elite academies.
It turned out this rather shy and reticent guy is the basic holder of many basic patents that govern even many derivative inventions even of big corporations like Dupont and Pharmaceuticals. I requested his CV at some point a few years later, and he did not hesitate to send it to me, and it was almost an inch-thick. His patents alone was several pages.
When you are student or become involved in research and technology, you meet many kinds of these people in seminars and conferences. Many could barely could speak fluent English or speak in correct grammar, as many of them are foreigners. They could be rambling too. One I knew even use a copy editor to improve his written work before submission to journals. But, if you focus too much on their speaking voice, or that they are slow or they ramble -- you will miss a lot learning from them.
Are you for real? Whatever profession are you in?
You obviously have not met some of the greatest minds in the world. This is true in any field. Not being able to speak proper English has never been a criteria in serious fields when it comes to public speaking. Some of them even get standing room only, if you can squeeze in. Some are very much in demand to be invited guest speakers in conferences and featured seminars very common in universities and research institutions.
You actually equate savvy speaking with success in communication? I bet charlatans would mesmerize you.
As important as speech is in "popularity contest" arenas, if speech were the litmus test, many great people would not pass your shallow mindedness.
CGC
Gesh, you got all that because the guy had a hard time understanding him as public speaker. He didn't call him the devil or anything, while you... ah never mind. Sorry for the thread interruption everyone.
I've never understood the hangups some people have with "profanity". They act like their heads will explode if they hear or read certain words. Language is about expression, and sometimes the best way to express something is to use a word that some people consider "profane".
Perhaps, but that should be pretty rare and thats the issue. Is there really anything said here that warrants profanity? That is such a large outrage to warrant such an exclaimation of disagreement?
Or perhaps, just perhaps, we should use reasoned discourse... ah... &uck it.
What you write might be true for a socially awkward nuclear scientist or Noble Prize winner giving a lecture to his peers, which would also consist of socially awkward academics. The same cannot be said for somebody who is presenting products for Apple, which is a commercial company seeking to promote and sell their products, as the intended target audience is much more mainstream and completely different from a bunch of socially inept academics.
Jesus, don't put your foot into your mouth any farther, it may reach your "a--".
Those you disdain will have more lasting impact than you can ever imagine, long after you are simply dust. They actually made a difference in this world and contributed to the betterment of mankind than you and I can ever dream of.
Your xenophobia revealed in another thread just keeps popping out more.
Socialist? Do you even understand what that means, from what you just posted?
Did you know that Isaac Newton was what you would call socially inept? Assuming of course that you ever heard of him.
By the way, many of these people are not socially inept. You may even feel so inept if you actually met them, because in all their quiet disposition many of them exude surety of their conviction and accomplishments.
If your world is Apple, you surely have a very limited scope. Try to look at the definition of inept sometimes. You might have a better understanding and appreciation of the meaning of socially inept.
By the way it is "Nobel" after a person. Although a number of Nobel Prize winners are indeed noble.
Gesh, you got all that because the guy had a hard time understanding him as public speaker. He didn't call him the devil or anything, while you... ah never mind. Sorry for the thread interruption everyone.
Read some of the other posts of Apple ][. By the way, quite a number of Americans have a field day making a profession poking fun at non-English speakers.
CGC
Oh for goodness sake, can we drop the debate of what is going to turn into what. MacOS X is made for computers that have a wide variety of uses and evolved since time before the Internet where security didn't need to be the top priority, and the average user base knew how to fix things themselves.
iOS is made for ultraportable devices that are marketed like appliances and suitable for extreme novices so they have restrictions that stop people from messing up their machines.
I swear, if some of you "iOS is too restrictive, it'd better not migrate to the desktop" people were designing toasters, the customer would have to open the side panel, remove a resistor and put in another one and adjust the distance of the elements to the toast with a screwdriver if they wanted their toast a little browner one day.
And people like you would design a toaster that only makes one kind of toast. If you want a a slightly darker kind of toast, you go to a store and buy a new one.
Ironically, the "toasters" apple now sells (their iDevices) are like the toasters you describe. If you only want the kind of toast Apple wants you to have, you are fine, but if you want a darker toast you need to jailbreak your toaster, pull out the toolbox and start changing resistors
No doubt. Athletes, corporate execs, wherever - give me a nice $10-500 mil payday and I'm OUT. See you on the beach!
Sounds good - I'll get the first round of beers in!
What demise. The two systems are just different faces of the same core OS. Each optimized for the devices and uses needed. While they might bleed over in a few ways, neither is going to 'kill' the other. They will evolve as needed.
Partial quote...
My following posts expanded and explained. I didn't mean how you took it.
Perhaps, but that should be pretty rare and thats the issue. Is there really anything said here that warrants profanity? That is such a large outrage to warrant such an exclaimation of disagreement?
Or perhaps, just perhaps, we should use reasoned discourse... ah... &uck it.
What profanity? Why the hangup on certain words as taboo? What harm will in fact come to anyone because these words are spoken or written? None. So, objecting to them is simply irrational.
It's not like he's uttering the name of god or something prohibited by the divinity, if you believe in that sort of thing.
"......Seriously though, I wonder if this is because of the demise of OS X in the face of iOS?
What demise? I use both platforms and don't see them as interchangeable in my life.
Mac sales are up, ummm, slightly.
(last sentence is sarcasm for the uninitiated)
Those you disdain will have more lasting impact than you can ever imagine, long after you are simply dust. They actually made a difference in this world and contributed to the betterment of mankind than you and I can ever dream of.
I don't disdain them. Some of those people are pretty brilliant. You are drawing some pretty far reaching conclusions which are patently absurd, bordering on the comical to say the least.
Somebody can be a genius and also be a piss poor public speaker, that's all that has been stated. And why do you mention 'socialist'? I have written nothing about any socialists in this thread. You seem to be quite angry, which is apparently affecting your ability to properly comprehend what is being written to the point of even imaging words that have never been written.
And I know perfectly well who Alfred Nobel is, though the prize has lost a bit of it's prestige in recent years, due to it being awarded to people who have done nothing to deserve it, especially in the political field, though I won't mention any names here.
This IS a minefield...there are those who are confident enough in their identity, background, upbringing etc who don't feel the need to pretend, Bertrand Serlet is a good example of a native French speaker who has obviously spent a great deal of time based in the US but still sounds French, Arsene Wenger is another good example. Both, I would say, travel well.
A couple of years ago, I heard Madonna being interviewed and there was hardly a trace of NY in her voice although at the time she had only been living here a short while. Nigel kennedy used to speak with an almost cut glass English accent till he decided to go all Mockney to connect wiv da kids no doubt. He currently stays in Budapest so I imagine he's gone native Magyar by now.
Lulu, when she found fame, couldn't lose her Scottish accent quick enough but when she does come back to Scotland her 'Glaswegian' is turned on like a tap.
I'd say those three DON'T travel well...IMO, of course!
Ah, Lulu, such memories
The biggest shock I got was hearing Christian Bale speak at the Oscars. Not what I expected at all ... but hey it's his native 'speak' so good for him.
Also, please no "Frenchman immediately surrendering" jokes. Serlet's not the type to give up or Jobs wouldn't have hired him.
The only people voicing these "Frenchman immediately surrendering" xenophobic "jokes" are conditioned bigots brainwashed enough to ignore the more than 1.500.000 french soldiers KIA fighting the Germans for the last century alone, that the French actually won for them their American Revolution at Yorktown, etc. What's just sad is that they seem -as you point out- incredibly numerous, reflecting the sorry state of education and History knowledge in the USA...