There's also a preference to put Dashboard back to the transparent background view, which should be the default IMO and there is an option to adjust the scrollbar direction.
This is really really really important information and the new scrollbars hide this information. I don't want to move my mouse over everything that looks like it might possibly be scrollable to see if some scrollbars show up indicating that, yes, there is more.
Stupid.
Its a bit extreme to call it stupid. The majority of the time that you are looking at the page the scroll bars are simply taking up space. They are only useful when you need to know your orientation on the page.
You don't need to point to a specific place for the scroll bars to show up. They show whenever you use the pointer.
I really dislike the dis-coloration of the interface. I thought it was bad with iTunes, but now in Mail and the Finder... Wow, flash back to the 90's it is just soooo boring. I was hoping it would grow on me, but it hasn't. I'm a visual person and really miss being able to quickly identify things by their color.
I really dislike the dis-coloration of the interface. I thought it was bad with iTunes, but now in Mail and the Finder... Wow, flash back to the 90's it is just soooo boring. I was hoping it would grow on me, but it hasn't. I'm a visual person and really miss being able to quickly identify things by their color.
I feel it's very sad to see the new Lion Aqua "style". Very sad. I mean really sad.
OSX had a really beautiful user interface. Sure, everything has to evolve, but evolve for better. This new look is a severe (severe) step backwards in interface quality. Why did Apple criticize the UI of Windows and Linux if they're now trying to do a bad copy of their looks?
I see the new Lion dialogs, and I just can say one word: Gnome. This is really sad.
Just like I say Aqua was the best UI in the planet, I also say that the latest Ubuntu UI is of higher quality than Lion, not because of Ubuntu (they just evolved in a natural way), but because of Apple: instead of evolving, they're losing quality.
Too sad. I wonder how many years will it take to see another great UI in OSX. I'm afraid it will take no less than 5 years, being very optimistic.
Please, people. The interface is the same its just gotten rid of some off tha gloss that, frankly, has gotten old. There are legitimate criticisms in lion, iCal and address book if you don't care for that look, but the de-glossification of the UI is not one.
Please, people. The interface is the same its just gotten rid of some off tha gloss that, frankly, has gotten old. There are legitimate criticisms in lion, iCal and address book if you don't care for that look, but the de-glossification of the UI is not one.
The iCal leather texture is quite nonsense, but it's the only "eye-opener" stuff I've seen in Lion screenshots to date. I don't like it, but if Lion is going to be a common off-the-shelf UI with the same look as any modern UI, without character, at least I hope they keep that texture in the final Lion release.
So, it will be a dull UI, but you'll have iCal for not falling asleep. That's better than nothing.
Maybe it was time for getting rid of capsule-shaped controls, although I don't think so, as they're quite cool still. Anyway, why substitute them by Windows-XP shaped buttons? That "almost square" shape was already enjoyed in the XP era. It's time to evolve. Don't like the capsules? Well, make them square. But with character please!
And please, don't change the older button arrows by the new Lion ones... these really are a Gnome copy'n'paste.
These screenshots don't belong to a UI different from the rest, but just to an off-the-shelf UI.
I would be curious to know the amount if code it takes for each style. If the drab takes a third the lines of code for each element then you could have the reason right there.
It is tough to fit all our stuff in on a 128K Mac....
The OS should be nothing more than a way to run applications. It's the applications that make the OS.
Applications are meant to be utilitarian in nature because they let you do things so the cleaner and better laid out the more productive.
A flashy OS is counter productive as can be seen by Windows 7 which has largely gone form over function.
I don't agree at all with your Win7 comment, but I agree with you that the OS should get out of the way and let the applications take over. I'd take a minimal OS over a flashy any day. (This is why I still appreciate the Windows Classic theme in Win7).
Quote:
Originally Posted by xsu
Otherwise, people may start to think Windows 7 interface is more attractive.
I already know many people who think this. And so what if they do? Is the world going to end in doom and destruction if people might prefer the latest iteration of Aero to the latest iteration of Aqua? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and not everyone has a hard-on for all of Apple's UI decisions.
I don't agree at all with your Win7 comment, but I agree with you that the OS should get out of the way and let the applications take over. I'd take a minimal OS over a flashy any day. (This is why I still appreciate the Windows Classic theme in Win7).
I already know many people who think this. And so what if they do? Is the world going to end in doom and destruction if people might prefer the latest iteration of Aero to the latest iteration of Aqua? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and not everyone has a hard-on for all of Apple's UI decisions.
I use a computer all day for work and for entertainment as well. I'd rather it not be UGLY.
Windows 7 is decent, but still kind of ugly. OS X is good as it is, although it could use some minor improvements that were proposed over a decade ago when 10.0 first came out by...ah I can't remember the guy's name but he was an interface designer at Apple and was very insightful. I remember reading about how infinite vertical space at the top of the screen on a Mac is intentional. In Windows you have to stop the mouse right BEFORE the top of the screen with its useless blank title bar in every Windows application. It's the little things that make an interface good and what makes Apple interfaces easy and intuitive.
I hope they continue to solicit feedback before releasing Lion. Color is important in an interface, at least to me. I think the easy solution is allowing the choice of "theme" color like I had mentioned. In addition to Aqua and Graphite let the user pick any one color to splash the OS with, or perhaps a few (a small number) of colors even. Color, texture, and shape are all important.
Faux fur interface? I thought that was over with 10.2 anyway!
Functionally, I don't like the idea of the scroll bars being hidden.
I detest scroll bars that are hidden. Twitterrific has them and I have to hunt for them when I want to scroll. It's one more action that makes work for my hands. Don't they ever test this stuff for folks with disabilities?
Apple never offers keyboards that can be used by those with disabilities. We have to pay for them though then buy a replacement.
Apple's next desktop operating system release will tone down much of the Aqua user interface and change how screen captures handle windows' drop down sheets.
The most obvious Aqua gloss stripped from Mac OS X Lion involves scroll bars, which are replaced with iOS-like, grey segments that disappear when not in use. The Finder and Mail also drop the use of bubbly, colorful toolbar and source-list icons, indicating a general preference for simpler, monochromatic icons similar to those used in iPad apps.
Also missing are the Aqua pill buttons in the upper right corner of windows in the Finder and certain other apps, which currently display or hide the window's toolbar. These have been replaced by the Full Screen control used in apps that support that mode.
Across the interface, while Aqua highlighting still exists, much of the "blue gel" has been dialed down. For example, the standard Font panel uses a plain slider control rather than a blue bubble.
A variety of rounded buttons are now replaced with more squared off rectangles, and popup menus now lack a blue button selection indicator, as the Cell Background control in the Table panel from TextEdit indicates.
The standard print sheet also demonstrates the more square and conservative use of Aqua highlights used throughout the interface (with the help button now lacking a purple fill).
The screen shots below also show another new feature of Lion: screen shots of a drop down sheet now include the window they are connected to, rather than just capturing the sheet itself.
I love the aqua interface and i think it is that feature which makes os x unique. I also dislike the grey finder sidebar which used to be with color icons.
This looks very...Dull. Windows-ish. Seems like change for changes sake. I guess square buttons might have some teeny tiny bit of increased functionality, but ones that look so drab the blend in to the rest of the screen? Doesn't make sense.
And look at the window function buttons, they look so much more bland as well.
it honestly doesn't look that much different to what it is now.
Round Buttons = Square Buttons
Drop Downs = Monochromatic
Everything Else == Aqua
Menus are still colourful and so are the window controls. Considering how the rest of the UI uses rounded off rectangles, the buttons don't look like a sore thumb anymore. I'd still much rather have Lion's new UI than that mismatched "look at me!" mess that is Aero on Windows.
If anything its just been toned down to not be as loud. Less is more, ya know?
These are the kind of posts that shutdown discussion and turn this into a discussion about people hating other people instead of what people like. Things would be much clearer if those that talked like a politician trying to bias people were prevented from posting.
Good point. I was reviewing the threads for INFORMATION and had become (as a new Ai user) disappointed with the subject devolving into personal attacks, like so many other forums can become.
I thank the OP about "iTunes 109". I wasn't aware of it and iTunes 10 had become so hard to see, I just realized I stopped buying stuff from iTunes. I wasn't sure why until reading the thread. I realized the font has always been very small, and without the color, made it hard to see on a 23" HD monitor, sitting back about 6 feet. So I just stopped using iTunes. No big deal for me, but stopped my spending $ to iTunes/Apple over a UI thing.
Two things are for sure: 1) Lion will develop 2) 3rd party apps will come out for UI tweaks. But 3rd party apps are never the best for forward-compatibility on OS. I don't know why Apple just doesn't let the User set their own preferences about some of the UI in the Preferences.
Not sure, but some postings go to making the actions/look for Lion, a more iOS-like experience. That's fine, but if you tend to have to operate a Desktop Mac like an i-Phone, and loose some of the powerful Desktop UI, whats the point of a Desktop?
I'll be watching the UI comments carefully before upgrading 3 Macs here.
Comments
Any developers that are using Lion please submit feature requests for normal scrollbars (even if it is just a Finder preference).
There is a preference to disable the hidden scrollbars and use normal ones.
There is a Finder preference to disable the hidden scrollbars and use normal ones.
oh, now that is fantastic news!
oh, now that is fantastic news!
There's also a preference to put Dashboard back to the transparent background view, which should be the default IMO and there is an option to adjust the scrollbar direction.
This is really really really important information and the new scrollbars hide this information. I don't want to move my mouse over everything that looks like it might possibly be scrollable to see if some scrollbars show up indicating that, yes, there is more.
Stupid.
Its a bit extreme to call it stupid. The majority of the time that you are looking at the page the scroll bars are simply taking up space. They are only useful when you need to know your orientation on the page.
You don't need to point to a specific place for the scroll bars to show up. They show whenever you use the pointer.
Anyway, I haven't tried Lion yet.....
And you are already complaining about it.
I really dislike the dis-coloration of the interface. I thought it was bad with iTunes, but now in Mail and the Finder... Wow, flash back to the 90's it is just soooo boring. I was hoping it would grow on me, but it hasn't. I'm a visual person and really miss being able to quickly identify things by their color.
LOL. OS 9 called and wants its Platinum back.
OSX had a really beautiful user interface. Sure, everything has to evolve, but evolve for better. This new look is a severe (severe) step backwards in interface quality. Why did Apple criticize the UI of Windows and Linux if they're now trying to do a bad copy of their looks?
I see the new Lion dialogs, and I just can say one word: Gnome. This is really sad.
Just like I say Aqua was the best UI in the planet, I also say that the latest Ubuntu UI is of higher quality than Lion, not because of Ubuntu (they just evolved in a natural way), but because of Apple: instead of evolving, they're losing quality.
Too sad. I wonder how many years will it take to see another great UI in OSX. I'm afraid it will take no less than 5 years, being very optimistic.
Why had this to happen?? Why??
Please, people. The interface is the same its just gotten rid of some off tha gloss that, frankly, has gotten old. There are legitimate criticisms in lion, iCal and address book if you don't care for that look, but the de-glossification of the UI is not one.
The sky is falling!
Please, people. The interface is the same its just gotten rid of some off tha gloss that, frankly, has gotten old. There are legitimate criticisms in lion, iCal and address book if you don't care for that look, but the de-glossification of the UI is not one.
The iCal leather texture is quite nonsense, but it's the only "eye-opener" stuff I've seen in Lion screenshots to date. I don't like it, but if Lion is going to be a common off-the-shelf UI with the same look as any modern UI, without character, at least I hope they keep that texture in the final Lion release.
So, it will be a dull UI, but you'll have iCal for not falling asleep. That's better than nothing.
Maybe it was time for getting rid of capsule-shaped controls, although I don't think so, as they're quite cool still. Anyway, why substitute them by Windows-XP shaped buttons? That "almost square" shape was already enjoyed in the XP era. It's time to evolve. Don't like the capsules? Well, make them square. But with character please!
And please, don't change the older button arrows by the new Lion ones... these really are a Gnome copy'n'paste.
These screenshots don't belong to a UI different from the rest, but just to an off-the-shelf UI.
I would be curious to know the amount if code it takes for each style. If the drab takes a third the lines of code for each element then you could have the reason right there.
It is tough to fit all our stuff in on a 128K Mac....
That's the point of the OS.
The OS should be nothing more than a way to run applications. It's the applications that make the OS.
Applications are meant to be utilitarian in nature because they let you do things so the cleaner and better laid out the more productive.
A flashy OS is counter productive as can be seen by Windows 7 which has largely gone form over function.
I don't agree at all with your Win7 comment, but I agree with you that the OS should get out of the way and let the applications take over. I'd take a minimal OS over a flashy any day. (This is why I still appreciate the Windows Classic theme in Win7).
Otherwise, people may start to think Windows 7 interface is more attractive.
I already know many people who think this. And so what if they do? Is the world going to end in doom and destruction if people might prefer the latest iteration of Aero to the latest iteration of Aqua? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and not everyone has a hard-on for all of Apple's UI decisions.
I don't agree at all with your Win7 comment, but I agree with you that the OS should get out of the way and let the applications take over. I'd take a minimal OS over a flashy any day. (This is why I still appreciate the Windows Classic theme in Win7).
I already know many people who think this. And so what if they do? Is the world going to end in doom and destruction if people might prefer the latest iteration of Aero to the latest iteration of Aqua? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and not everyone has a hard-on for all of Apple's UI decisions.
I use a computer all day for work and for entertainment as well. I'd rather it not be UGLY.
Windows 7 is decent, but still kind of ugly. OS X is good as it is, although it could use some minor improvements that were proposed over a decade ago when 10.0 first came out by...ah I can't remember the guy's name but he was an interface designer at Apple and was very insightful. I remember reading about how infinite vertical space at the top of the screen on a Mac is intentional. In Windows you have to stop the mouse right BEFORE the top of the screen with its useless blank title bar in every Windows application. It's the little things that make an interface good and what makes Apple interfaces easy and intuitive.
I hope they continue to solicit feedback before releasing Lion. Color is important in an interface, at least to me. I think the easy solution is allowing the choice of "theme" color like I had mentioned. In addition to Aqua and Graphite let the user pick any one color to splash the OS with, or perhaps a few (a small number) of colors even. Color, texture, and shape are all important.
Faux fur interface? I thought that was over with 10.2 anyway!
Functionally, I don't like the idea of the scroll bars being hidden.
I detest scroll bars that are hidden. Twitterrific has them and I have to hunt for them when I want to scroll. It's one more action that makes work for my hands. Don't they ever test this stuff for folks with disabilities?
Apple never offers keyboards that can be used by those with disabilities. We have to pay for them though then buy a replacement.
Apple's next desktop operating system release will tone down much of the Aqua user interface and change how screen captures handle windows' drop down sheets.
The most obvious Aqua gloss stripped from Mac OS X Lion involves scroll bars, which are replaced with iOS-like, grey segments that disappear when not in use. The Finder and Mail also drop the use of bubbly, colorful toolbar and source-list icons, indicating a general preference for simpler, monochromatic icons similar to those used in iPad apps.
Also missing are the Aqua pill buttons in the upper right corner of windows in the Finder and certain other apps, which currently display or hide the window's toolbar. These have been replaced by the Full Screen control used in apps that support that mode.
Across the interface, while Aqua highlighting still exists, much of the "blue gel" has been dialed down. For example, the standard Font panel uses a plain slider control rather than a blue bubble.
A variety of rounded buttons are now replaced with more squared off rectangles, and popup menus now lack a blue button selection indicator, as the Cell Background control in the Table panel from TextEdit indicates.
The standard print sheet also demonstrates the more square and conservative use of Aqua highlights used throughout the interface (with the help button now lacking a purple fill).
The screen shots below also show another new feature of Lion: screen shots of a drop down sheet now include the window they are connected to, rather than just capturing the sheet itself.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
I love the aqua interface and i think it is that feature which makes os x unique. I also dislike the grey finder sidebar which used to be with color icons.
Resize from any edge
I was always sure Microsoft held a patent for that!
This looks very...Dull. Windows-ish. Seems like change for changes sake. I guess square buttons might have some teeny tiny bit of increased functionality, but ones that look so drab the blend in to the rest of the screen? Doesn't make sense.
And look at the window function buttons, they look so much more bland as well.
it honestly doesn't look that much different to what it is now.
Round Buttons = Square Buttons
Drop Downs = Monochromatic
Everything Else == Aqua
Menus are still colourful and so are the window controls. Considering how the rest of the UI uses rounded off rectangles, the buttons don't look like a sore thumb anymore. I'd still much rather have Lion's new UI than that mismatched "look at me!" mess that is Aero on Windows.
If anything its just been toned down to not be as loud. Less is more, ya know?
These are the kind of posts that shutdown discussion and turn this into a discussion about people hating other people instead of what people like. Things would be much clearer if those that talked like a politician trying to bias people were prevented from posting.
Good point. I was reviewing the threads for INFORMATION and had become (as a new Ai user) disappointed with the subject devolving into personal attacks, like so many other forums can become.
I thank the OP about "iTunes 109". I wasn't aware of it and iTunes 10 had become so hard to see, I just realized I stopped buying stuff from iTunes. I wasn't sure why until reading the thread. I realized the font has always been very small, and without the color, made it hard to see on a 23" HD monitor, sitting back about 6 feet. So I just stopped using iTunes. No big deal for me, but stopped my spending $ to iTunes/Apple over a UI thing.
Two things are for sure: 1) Lion will develop 2) 3rd party apps will come out for UI tweaks. But 3rd party apps are never the best for forward-compatibility on OS. I don't know why Apple just doesn't let the User set their own preferences about some of the UI in the Preferences.
Not sure, but some postings go to making the actions/look for Lion, a more iOS-like experience. That's fine, but if you tend to have to operate a Desktop Mac like an i-Phone, and loose some of the powerful Desktop UI, whats the point of a Desktop?
I'll be watching the UI comments carefully before upgrading 3 Macs here.
Originally Posted by KubixRubeUSA
We need to start a riot outside of the apple store to bring back aqua in the next update >o>
Not really, no.
Quote:
We need to start a riot outside of the apple store to bring back aqua in the next update >o>
I think it is a good idea