I wasnt going to add anymore to this thread but you keep making these special cases that obviously aren?t suitable for Chrome OS or iOS or Android or anything other than a traditional PC setup. 60 GB of raw video?! Come on!
You also seem to think there is some all-or-nothing concept here and there simply isn?t. There have been very clear areas as to how Chrome OS would be better suited in both utilize and price than other options.
There is no ?be all end all solutions for everything? never has been and never will be. You show me such a product and I?ll show you a business opportunity.
You missed this:
We saw a brief demo of the software used on a CR-48, and while the setup was obviously optimized, it worked shockingly well. A backend Windows server had a copy of Photoshop CS5 onboard, and the CR-48 was able to load it within a matter of seconds through Receiver. Not a light model -- we're talking about the full, bona fide version of Photoshop.
There are still a lot of reasons this isn?t practical but your arguments aren?t dealing with the practical aspects, your going from one extreme of mobile computing with the iPad to another extreme of heavy CPU usage. Why can?t there be a middle ground for a usage that doesn?t have anything to do with your needs?
The bottom line pretty much everyone on this forum will have absolutely no need Chrome OS as a personal machine, much in the same way I find little utility with the iPad as it sits between my iPhone and 13? MBP, but that doesn?t mean I discount the iPad as a viable computing option.
PS: Calling this a thin client is inaccurate. It can run offline. It read and write to a USB stick or HDD. It?s not a dead duck that can?t do a single task once you have no internet access.
I agree with most of what you say.
If it can run offline can it do the things a basic tablet can do of line?
i am not asking for iMovie here, but things like photos, music, as well as the holy trinity.
To me, even the grandparents (long gone now) would want to do iPhoto-like stuff and play music -- the web would have been a problem for all of them -- mail, not so much!
Here is a preliminary hands-on review that does a lot of comparisons to netbooks, which something many of you have been doing in this thread and just assuming the usability would be the same despite the obvious visual keyboard, trackpad and display differences.
You seem to know a lot about Chrome. Later, I will try and find a link to download the OS -- so I can see for myself.
I keep hearing the "average consumers" argument -- not sure that means a sizeable majority or a small niche.
In our household we have 2 adults and 3 children (11, 12, 15). Maybe we're spoiled, but we could not get buy with just a browser and the web apps that people say will satisfy the "average consumer".
I don't get around much so I have no idea of the usage requirements of typical users.
I support almost anything that will enable users to improve their lives -- the ChromeBook could well be one of them
You're also the family of a computer programmer. they grew up with the technology, and I'm willing to bet that if you found out something cool to do, you'd show them, correct? (I do the same with technology) Nothing wrong with that. I'm sure whenever I have kids I'll do the same thing.
I used to sell cellphones, so I got to interact with the 'average" consumer quite a bit. (people who are into tech largely bought online). With smartphones, I got two questions more than any other. "Is this an iphone" (they think that iphone is a type of device, not a specific one, aka apple iphone, Motorola iPhone) and "Can my phone do Farmville/Angry birds"
For a lot of users, the web is all that matters. take my mom for instance. She's on the computer every night. She checks her email, browses facebook, and reads some news. The only program she uses is Quicken. Her computer is dying and our family was considering getting her a macbook (~1000) since it is a much better (and easier) experience overall. If Chromebook has a nice checkbook client, we might just get her that instead and save $600. Is she getting an equivalent device? No. But will the experience for her be largely the same? Yes. Possibly even better because she won't have to worry about updates.
They're not for everyone, but a growing number of people basically use their computer just for online things. Heck, I'm a pretty heavy user and removing the apps I play online, I use the following products on my computer:
-Windows Media Player (itunes if I need to sync my ipad)
-Portal2 (video game)
-light photo editing software.
-open office for when I need to open a document that someone sends me outside of Gmail/Chrome.
I used to use more, but honestly, most of that has shifted to the cloud. I used to travel a lot with my old job, so I was an early adopter for a lot of the "cloud" technologies. I know that people use their devices for a lot more (like photo editing) but a lot of us just want to get online. I'm debating between getting a tablet or a laptop. I was set on a Transformer, but these offerings make me want to wait for the reviews.
The Chromebook won't take users away from mac, I don't think it will impact tablet sales too much. It's meant squarely at the Netbook environment (and businesses), which I think it's well suited for.
Here is a preliminary hands-on review that does a lot of comparisons to netbooks, which something many of you have been doing in this thread and just assuming the usability would be the same despite the obvious visual keyboard, trackpad and display differences.
OK, I pride myself in seeing the potential of new technology....
I am still not sold, but am going to do the research.
What is the sales potential of the ChromeBook for 2011 -- assuming ramped up availability for the last 5 months of 2011?
My SWAG estimate (with no knowedge, just intuition) says less than 300,000 devices through Dec 31, 2011.
P.S. I did review the engadget link
This is a comment from engadget I found fitting:
Quote:
you know that time a relation of yours gave you that laptop and asked you to fix it, and you took a look at it and it had internet explorer with half the screen filled with tool bars and 100s of smiley based applications and that fake anti virus?
Here's an interesting comment in re iPad using the cloud to do heavy processing like video editing:
Quote:
Author: Walt French
Comment:
@Steko, if you look at the competency of the iPad I imagine you'll find very few actual use cases where the cost of shuffling data around is worth the savings in CPU responsiveness. Google is maybe a year or two ahead of Apple in cloud services but I don't see cloud functions exceeding what the A4 is capable of. The cloud is for sharing, synchronizing, ubiquity, not processing e cept for very unusual cases (e.g., SETI).
Here's an interesting comment in re iPad using the cloud to do heavy processing like video editing:
Just to be clear, an OS built with WebKit as the UI does not mean that it can only work when connected to the internet. Note the USB ports on Chrome notebooks.
Does this apply to an ARM or Atom thin client in general?
I have no idea when this could apply to ARM, but if Intel starts manufacturing ARM CPUs then that could happen in less time.
It?s certainly a possibility for Atom once it reaches 22nm. Here is what Anand says about it:
The bigger story here actually has to do with Atom. The biggest gains Intel is showing are at very low voltages, exactly what will benefit ultra mobile SoCs. Atom has had a tough time getting into smartphones and while we may see limited success at 32nm, the real future is what happens at 22nm. Atom is due for a new microprocessor architecture in 2012, if Intel goes the risky route and combines it with its 22nm process it could have a knockout on its hands.
It uses commoditized netbook hardware (Atom, 12" screen, no optical, blah blah blah). It uses commoditized software (Google bits will cost money just like MS bits).
Will the TCO be cheaper than netbooks? If you think so, why? I don't see any reason for it be so. There will be viruses and malware on it, they'll just be called extensions or rogue javascript code. Will there be as much as XP? Obviously not, but I don't think it will be anymore than Win7 or Mac OS X.
Will the hardware be more reliable? No I don't think so. It's just commoditize netbook parts. You get what you pay for. Somewhere in the value chain, parts have to be serviced or replaced because there is nothing special about the hardware to make more reliable. It will fail just much a other netbooks and laptops. That service cost will be accounted somewhere.
I agree that virtual storage through the cloud would be nice thing as it automatically gives you a backup, but that really doesn't come fore free. There are inherent push-pull problems with virtual drives as bandwidth is not free. When we get there, with the magic cloud invisibly everywhere, it won't be because it is cheaper, but safer and more convenient. Cloud will be more expensive.
Will it make the netbook form factor any better? Why would it? The netbook form factor "niche" has been defined with it not taking over the world. People want 14, 15, 16 screen sizes on laptops, while netbook devices appears to have stopped at about 10% of the PC market (40m units). If Google and friends want it to be a game changer, I think it needs to be a 14" device minimum.
If it is a game changer, it needs to save money (I'm not seeing this yet) or enable better usage models (I'm not seeing this yet). In the end, it's going to be about Google commoditizing software so that it defuses MS operating system and Office automation monopolies. Don't see where ChromeOS does this. Some say it will be great for Enterprise, but I don't see it. MS has at least a 5 year lead on everyone else with MS Office. It's probably a 10 year lead on Google Docs.
Just to be clear, an OS built with WebKit as the UI does not mean that it can only work when connected to the internet. Note the USB ports on Chrome notebooks.
I have no idea when this could apply to ARM, but if Intel starts manufacturing ARM CPUs then that could happen in less time.
It?s certainly a possibility for Atom once it reaches 22nm. Here is what Anand says about it:
The bigger story here actually has to do with Atom. The biggest gains Intel is showing are at very low voltages, exactly what will benefit ultra mobile SoCs. Atom has had a tough time getting into smartphones and while we may see limited success at 32nm, the real future is what happens at 22nm. Atom is due for a new microprocessor architecture in 2012, if Intel goes the risky route and combines it with its 22nm process it could have a knockout on its hands.
I'm not going to research the links but the improvement to Atom is either lower power or more processing... Net, not that big a deal... And 2012 or beyond.
I work as a counselor for the school district and most of the computers in the labs are Apples of one generation or another. I usually see an iMac sitting at the teacher's desk as they use them for presentation and teaching.
Google's just looking for more eyes to advertise to. Apple truly cares about the student's experience, imho.
I'm not going to research the links but the improvement to Atom is either lower power or more processing... Net, not that big a deal... And 2012 or beyond.
Hey, Sol, I respect your opinion and expertise...
What's your SWAG for ChromeBook sales for 2011?
1) I’m not sure how that saying got started but it’s axiomatically false. Future Atom CPUs will be better and you balance both the performance and power usage to get gains in both areas, or push it to the extreme in one or the other areas to equal previous systems in one aspect which therefore maximizing the effect in the other.
2) Thanks, and I yours… even though we don’t always agree.
3) The Acer ChromeBook, Samasung Series 5 notebook and other such machines that will come out this year, like the desktop versions, are difficult to gauge because we’ve never had anything like this before. It could be much like the iPad where its sales potential was greatly underestimated. Even if it does become a hit and, say, take 10% of Windows market share in 5 years it might also take awhile for the enterprise, education, and other consumers see a need for it .
Furthermore, there could be some major issues with the OS that will need to mature. Their app store certainly needs to mature. It will be sold for 7 months of the year and will have the option for monthly payments. Through 2011 that’s about $$140-196 out of pocket. Or $349-$499 paying out of pocket for a consumer.
I’ll weigh in I can see 4-5 million units being sold for calendar 2011. Let’s see who is closer in 2012 using your 300,000 figure. Note they shipped 60,000 CR-48 test machines
So it is a cheap PC using a traditional mouse / keyboard interface with a very limited OS. This is too little too late piece of junk makes an iPad look like something from the 23rd Century. I really think Google must have started planning this before they thought of copying iOS and somehow forgot to cancel the project. This will be another Beta project that will fizzle out. Google have more chance with Honeycomb, after all there is about 17% or the tablet market to fight over for the iPad copycats.
Schools are far better of with iPads BUT Apple need to beef up educational pricing and apps and ebooks.
except for the whole watsitcalled OH YAH!! typing... these are cheaper to have, maintain etc than An iPad (if you have an Ipad you still need a device students can type on) and also the software that comes with it
So for $20 a month, you can lease a crappy sub-netbook system which doesn't run any of your existing software and does nothing but access the net.
For roughly the same $20 a month, you can lease a low-end desktop system that does everything you expect a computer to do. No need to retrain your employees and no need to obsolete your existing stuff.
Explain again why it makes sense?
It greatly reduces IT costs for maintenance because no one in their right mind would use this PoS.
1) I?m not sure how that saying got started but it?s axiomatically false. Future Atom CPUs will be better and you balance both the performance and power usage to get gains in both areas, or push it to the extreme in one or the other areas to equal previous systems in one aspect which therefore maximizing the effect in the other.
2) Thanks, and I yours? even though we don?t always agree.
3) The Acer ChromeBook, Samasung Series 5 notebook and other such machines that will come out this year, like the desktop versions, are difficult to gauge because we?ve never had anything like this before. It could be much like the iPad where its sales potential was greatly underestimated. Even if it does become a hit and, say, take 10% of Windows market share in 5 years it might also take awhile for the enterprise, education, and other consumers see a need for it .
Furthermore, there could be some major issues with the OS that will need to mature. Their app store certainly needs to mature. It will be sold for 7 months of the year and will have the option for monthly payments. Through 2011 that?s about $200 out of pocket.
I?ll weigh in I can see 4-5 million units being sold for calendar 2011. Let?s see who is closer in 2012 using your 300,000 figure.
<300K vs 4-5 Million... Not to bad a range.
As I learn more, I could move in your direction... Or not.
I did pretty good on iPad 1 at 10 million in CY 2010.
I'm on record for 60 million iPads (1and2) for CY 2011.
Somewhere I read that iPad isn't affecting netbook sales... 'course they didn't count iPad 2 sales...
Will the TCO be cheaper than netbooks? If you think so, why? I don't see any reason for it be so. There will be viruses and malware on it, they'll just be called extensions or rogue javascript code. Will there be as much as XP? Obviously not, but I don't think it will be anymore than Win7 or Mac OS X.
-the entire OS is sandboxed, this means that if something infects one tab, it cannot access the information on your device OR in the other active tabs.
-the OS checks itself on boot for corruption, and will fix automatically
-everything is encrypted as a default.
Quote:
Will the hardware be more reliable? No I don't think so. It's just commoditize netbook parts. You get what you pay for. Somewhere in the value chain, parts have to be serviced or replaced because there is nothing special about the hardware to make more reliable. It will fail just much a other netbooks and laptops. That service cost will be accounted somewhere.
builds have to be sighed off by Google before they're allowed to use the Chrome name. It's not commoditized netbook parts.
Quote:
I agree that virtual storage through the cloud would be nice thing as it automatically gives you a backup, but that really doesn't come fore free. There are inherent push-pull problems with virtual drives as bandwidth is not free. When we get there, with the magic cloud invisibly everywhere, it won't be because it is cheaper, but safer and more convenient. Cloud will be more expensive.
this is assuming bandwidth will stay the same price or increase the opposite is true. And again, this is NOT meant to replace your full computer if you use the computer a lot. IT's meant to add to it, or for those users who do almost everything on the web.
Quote:
Will it make the netbook form factor any better? Why would it? The netbook form factor "niche" has been defined with it not taking over the world. People want 14, 15, 16 screen sizes on laptops, while netbook devices appears to have stopped at about 10% of the PC market (40m units). If Google and friends want it to be a game changer, I think it needs to be a 14" device minimum.
netbooks struggled because of cramped keyboards and because windows sucked on that hardware. This offers a full keyboard, and the software is optimized for the hardware. larger screen resolutions will most likely come. This is the INITIAL RELEASE.
Quote:
If it is a game changer, it needs to save money (I'm not seeing this yet) or enable better usage models (I'm not seeing this yet). In the end, it's going to be about Google commoditizing software so that it defuses MS operating system and Office automation monopolies. Don't see where ChromeOS does this. Some say it will be great for Enterprise, but I don't see it. MS has at least a 5 year lead on everyone else with MS Office. It's probably a 10 year lead on Google Docs.
-It can save companies and schools potentially thousands a year, and reduce headaches considerably.
-Better usage models? you mean like their programs for schools and businesses?
-or the fact that you can access your information from ANY chrome machine? That's a new usage model. Or the fact that you never have to worry about updating your device, or dealing with clearing out space.. also a new usage model.
-This is the Freaking INITIAL RELEASE. It WILL NOT be able to do everything the currently industry leader can out the gate. Seriously, this expectation for everything to be "instantly better" is stupid.
-For how MOST people use MS Office, Google Documents does more than what they need. All the "added" features are for continuously smaller niche markets. And again, it's the freaking initial release. The product was given a launch date and devices TODAY.
Somewhere I read that iPad isn't affecting netbook sales... 'course they didn't count iPad 2 sales...
...I heard that were very smooth...
Here are the specs of the Samsung model.
12.1" (1280x800) 300 nit Display
3.26 lbs / 1.48 kg
8.5 hours of continuous usage
Intel® AtomTM Dual-Core Processor
Built in dual-band Wi-Fi and World-mode 3G (optional)
HD Webcam with noise cancelling microphone
2 USB 2.0 ports
4-in-1 memory card slot
Mini-VGA port
Fullsize Chrome keyboard
Oversize fully-clickable trackpad
Higher ppi than 13? MBP though very likely not as good a display.
Lightweight with long battery life (5 hours of continuous video, BTW).
The big things I want to note are the keyboard and trackpad that mirror Apple?s notebooks. in fact, the reports say it?s the best trackpad outside of Apple?s notebooks.
Those are netbook features and the price isn?t much higher.
So? what are netbook sales projections for 2011? Surely higher than 300k. While this uses the same CPU as a netbook that?s pretty much it as you can see from the specs. Could a chromebook put another hurt on the cramped netbooks that take minutes to boot compared to this 8 second boot machine? I think it can. I think it will.
Will the TCO be cheaper than netbooks? If you think so, why? I don't see any reason for it be so. There will be viruses and malware on it, they'll just be called extensions or rogue javascript code. Will there be as much as XP? Obviously not, but I don't think it will be anymore than Win7 or Mac OS X.
TCO is not just removing malware and viruses but also things like installing and updating software, applying patches, updating drivers, ...
Companies are already migrating their software into the browser to reduce IT costs. Moving from Windows to ChromeOS is just the final step.
netbooks struggled because of cramped keyboards and because windows sucked on that hardware. This offers a full keyboard, and the software is optimized for the hardware. larger screen resolutions will most likely come. This is the INITIAL RELEASE.
I think you may have defined the market place -- users that didn't want to do much but bought netbooks and Windows got in their way.
What remains to be seen is: did these users really need Windows or will they be satisfied with less capability... That can actually be used.
I have no experience here...
I don't know!
Edit: If a ChromeBook can deliver on the promise of a netbook... Then I can see some real potential!
Comments
I wasnt going to add anymore to this thread but you keep making these special cases that obviously aren?t suitable for Chrome OS or iOS or Android or anything other than a traditional PC setup. 60 GB of raw video?! Come on!
You also seem to think there is some all-or-nothing concept here and there simply isn?t. There have been very clear areas as to how Chrome OS would be better suited in both utilize and price than other options.
There is no ?be all end all solutions for everything? never has been and never will be. You show me such a product and I?ll show you a business opportunity.
You missed this:There are still a lot of reasons this isn?t practical but your arguments aren?t dealing with the practical aspects, your going from one extreme of mobile computing with the iPad to another extreme of heavy CPU usage. Why can?t there be a middle ground for a usage that doesn?t have anything to do with your needs?
The bottom line pretty much everyone on this forum will have absolutely no need Chrome OS as a personal machine, much in the same way I find little utility with the iPad as it sits between my iPhone and 13? MBP, but that doesn?t mean I discount the iPad as a viable computing option.
PS: Calling this a thin client is inaccurate. It can run offline. It read and write to a USB stick or HDD. It?s not a dead duck that can?t do a single task once you have no internet access.
I agree with most of what you say.
If it can run offline can it do the things a basic tablet can do of line?
i am not asking for iMovie here, but things like photos, music, as well as the holy trinity.
To me, even the grandparents (long gone now) would want to do iPhoto-like stuff and play music -- the web would have been a problem for all of them -- mail, not so much!
You seem to know a lot about Chrome. Later, I will try and find a link to download the OS -- so I can see for myself.
I keep hearing the "average consumers" argument -- not sure that means a sizeable majority or a small niche.
In our household we have 2 adults and 3 children (11, 12, 15). Maybe we're spoiled, but we could not get buy with just a browser and the web apps that people say will satisfy the "average consumer".
I don't get around much so I have no idea of the usage requirements of typical users.
I support almost anything that will enable users to improve their lives -- the ChromeBook could well be one of them
You're also the family of a computer programmer. they grew up with the technology, and I'm willing to bet that if you found out something cool to do, you'd show them, correct? (I do the same with technology) Nothing wrong with that. I'm sure whenever I have kids I'll do the same thing.
I used to sell cellphones, so I got to interact with the 'average" consumer quite a bit. (people who are into tech largely bought online). With smartphones, I got two questions more than any other. "Is this an iphone" (they think that iphone is a type of device, not a specific one, aka apple iphone, Motorola iPhone) and "Can my phone do Farmville/Angry birds"
For a lot of users, the web is all that matters. take my mom for instance. She's on the computer every night. She checks her email, browses facebook, and reads some news. The only program she uses is Quicken. Her computer is dying and our family was considering getting her a macbook (~1000) since it is a much better (and easier) experience overall. If Chromebook has a nice checkbook client, we might just get her that instead and save $600. Is she getting an equivalent device? No. But will the experience for her be largely the same? Yes. Possibly even better because she won't have to worry about updates.
They're not for everyone, but a growing number of people basically use their computer just for online things. Heck, I'm a pretty heavy user and removing the apps I play online, I use the following products on my computer:
-Windows Media Player (itunes if I need to sync my ipad)
-Portal2 (video game)
-light photo editing software.
-open office for when I need to open a document that someone sends me outside of Gmail/Chrome.
I used to use more, but honestly, most of that has shifted to the cloud. I used to travel a lot with my old job, so I was an early adopter for a lot of the "cloud" technologies. I know that people use their devices for a lot more (like photo editing) but a lot of us just want to get online. I'm debating between getting a tablet or a laptop. I was set on a Transformer, but these offerings make me want to wait for the reviews.
The Chromebook won't take users away from mac, I don't think it will impact tablet sales too much. It's meant squarely at the Netbook environment (and businesses), which I think it's well suited for.
Here is a preliminary hands-on review that does a lot of comparisons to netbooks, which something many of you have been doing in this thread and just assuming the usability would be the same despite the obvious visual keyboard, trackpad and display differences.
This is my next just updated their impressions:
http://thisismynext.com/2011/05/11/s...es-5-hands-on/
Not many details (yet) but some nice pictures.
I am still not sold, but am going to do the research.
What is the sales potential of the ChromeBook for 2011 -- assuming ramped up availability for the last 5 months of 2011?
My SWAG estimate (with no knowedge, just intuition) says less than 300,000 devices through Dec 31, 2011.
P.S. I did review the engadget link
OK, I pride myself in seeing the potential of new technology....
I am still not sold, but am going to do the research.
What is the sales potential of the ChromeBook for 2011 -- assuming ramped up availability for the last 5 months of 2011?
My SWAG estimate (with no knowedge, just intuition) says less than 300,000 devices through Dec 31, 2011.
P.S. I did review the engadget link
This is a comment from engadget I found fitting:
you know that time a relation of yours gave you that laptop and asked you to fix it, and you took a look at it and it had internet explorer with half the screen filled with tool bars and 100s of smiley based applications and that fake anti virus?
This computer is for them.
Author: Walt French
Comment:
@Steko, if you look at the competency of the iPad I imagine you'll find very few actual use cases where the cost of shuffling data around is worth the savings in CPU responsiveness. Google is maybe a year or two ahead of Apple in cloud services but I don't see cloud functions exceeding what the A4 is capable of. The cloud is for sharing, synchronizing, ubiquity, not processing e cept for very unusual cases (e.g., SETI).
Intel 3-D Transistors: Why and When?
Does this apply to an ARM or Atom thin client in general?
Here's an interesting comment in re iPad using the cloud to do heavy processing like video editing:
Just to be clear, an OS built with WebKit as the UI does not mean that it can only work when connected to the internet. Note the USB ports on Chrome notebooks.
Intel 3-D Transistors: Why and When?
Does this apply to an ARM or Atom thin client in general?
I have no idea when this could apply to ARM, but if Intel starts manufacturing ARM CPUs then that could happen in less time.
It?s certainly a possibility for Atom once it reaches 22nm. Here is what Anand says about it:
It uses commoditized netbook hardware (Atom, 12" screen, no optical, blah blah blah). It uses commoditized software (Google bits will cost money just like MS bits).
Will the TCO be cheaper than netbooks? If you think so, why? I don't see any reason for it be so. There will be viruses and malware on it, they'll just be called extensions or rogue javascript code. Will there be as much as XP? Obviously not, but I don't think it will be anymore than Win7 or Mac OS X.
Will the hardware be more reliable? No I don't think so. It's just commoditize netbook parts. You get what you pay for. Somewhere in the value chain, parts have to be serviced or replaced because there is nothing special about the hardware to make more reliable. It will fail just much a other netbooks and laptops. That service cost will be accounted somewhere.
I agree that virtual storage through the cloud would be nice thing as it automatically gives you a backup, but that really doesn't come fore free. There are inherent push-pull problems with virtual drives as bandwidth is not free. When we get there, with the magic cloud invisibly everywhere, it won't be because it is cheaper, but safer and more convenient. Cloud will be more expensive.
Will it make the netbook form factor any better? Why would it? The netbook form factor "niche" has been defined with it not taking over the world. People want 14, 15, 16 screen sizes on laptops, while netbook devices appears to have stopped at about 10% of the PC market (40m units). If Google and friends want it to be a game changer, I think it needs to be a 14" device minimum.
If it is a game changer, it needs to save money (I'm not seeing this yet) or enable better usage models (I'm not seeing this yet). In the end, it's going to be about Google commoditizing software so that it defuses MS operating system and Office automation monopolies. Don't see where ChromeOS does this. Some say it will be great for Enterprise, but I don't see it. MS has at least a 5 year lead on everyone else with MS Office. It's probably a 10 year lead on Google Docs.
Just to be clear, an OS built with WebKit as the UI does not mean that it can only work when connected to the internet. Note the USB ports on Chrome notebooks.
I have no idea when this could apply to ARM, but if Intel starts manufacturing ARM CPUs then that could happen in less time.
It?s certainly a possibility for Atom once it reaches 22nm. Here is what Anand says about it:
I'm not going to research the links but the improvement to Atom is either lower power or more processing... Net, not that big a deal... And 2012 or beyond.
Hey, Sol, I respect your opinion and expertise...
What's your SWAG for ChromeBook sales for 2011?
Google's just looking for more eyes to advertise to. Apple truly cares about the student's experience, imho.
I'm not going to research the links but the improvement to Atom is either lower power or more processing... Net, not that big a deal... And 2012 or beyond.
Hey, Sol, I respect your opinion and expertise...
What's your SWAG for ChromeBook sales for 2011?
1) I’m not sure how that saying got started but it’s axiomatically false. Future Atom CPUs will be better and you balance both the performance and power usage to get gains in both areas, or push it to the extreme in one or the other areas to equal previous systems in one aspect which therefore maximizing the effect in the other.
2) Thanks, and I yours… even though we don’t always agree.
3) The Acer ChromeBook, Samasung Series 5 notebook and other such machines that will come out this year, like the desktop versions, are difficult to gauge because we’ve never had anything like this before. It could be much like the iPad where its sales potential was greatly underestimated. Even if it does become a hit and, say, take 10% of Windows market share in 5 years it might also take awhile for the enterprise, education, and other consumers see a need for it .
Furthermore, there could be some major issues with the OS that will need to mature. Their app store certainly needs to mature. It will be sold for 7 months of the year and will have the option for monthly payments. Through 2011 that’s about $$140-196 out of pocket. Or $349-$499 paying out of pocket for a consumer.
I’ll weigh in I can see 4-5 million units being sold for calendar 2011. Let’s see who is closer in 2012 using your 300,000 figure.
So it is a cheap PC using a traditional mouse / keyboard interface with a very limited OS. This is too little too late piece of junk makes an iPad look like something from the 23rd Century. I really think Google must have started planning this before they thought of copying iOS and somehow forgot to cancel the project. This will be another Beta project that will fizzle out. Google have more chance with Honeycomb, after all there is about 17% or the tablet market to fight over for the iPad copycats.
Schools are far better of with iPads BUT Apple need to beef up educational pricing and apps and ebooks.
except for the whole watsitcalled OH YAH!! typing... these are cheaper to have, maintain etc than An iPad (if you have an Ipad you still need a device students can type on) and also the software that comes with it
This isnot mean to compete with iPad....
So for $20 a month, you can lease a crappy sub-netbook system which doesn't run any of your existing software and does nothing but access the net.
For roughly the same $20 a month, you can lease a low-end desktop system that does everything you expect a computer to do. No need to retrain your employees and no need to obsolete your existing stuff.
Explain again why it makes sense?
It greatly reduces IT costs for maintenance because no one in their right mind would use this PoS.
1) I?m not sure how that saying got started but it?s axiomatically false. Future Atom CPUs will be better and you balance both the performance and power usage to get gains in both areas, or push it to the extreme in one or the other areas to equal previous systems in one aspect which therefore maximizing the effect in the other.
2) Thanks, and I yours? even though we don?t always agree.
3) The Acer ChromeBook, Samasung Series 5 notebook and other such machines that will come out this year, like the desktop versions, are difficult to gauge because we?ve never had anything like this before. It could be much like the iPad where its sales potential was greatly underestimated. Even if it does become a hit and, say, take 10% of Windows market share in 5 years it might also take awhile for the enterprise, education, and other consumers see a need for it .
Furthermore, there could be some major issues with the OS that will need to mature. Their app store certainly needs to mature. It will be sold for 7 months of the year and will have the option for monthly payments. Through 2011 that?s about $200 out of pocket.
I?ll weigh in I can see 4-5 million units being sold for calendar 2011. Let?s see who is closer in 2012 using your 300,000 figure.
<300K vs 4-5 Million... Not to bad a range.
As I learn more, I could move in your direction... Or not.
I did pretty good on iPad 1 at 10 million in CY 2010.
I'm on record for 60 million iPads (1and2) for CY 2011.
Somewhere I read that iPad isn't affecting netbook sales... 'course they didn't count iPad 2 sales...
...I heard that were very smooth...
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Will the TCO be cheaper than netbooks? If you think so, why? I don't see any reason for it be so. There will be viruses and malware on it, they'll just be called extensions or rogue javascript code. Will there be as much as XP? Obviously not, but I don't think it will be anymore than Win7 or Mac OS X.
-the entire OS is sandboxed, this means that if something infects one tab, it cannot access the information on your device OR in the other active tabs.
-the OS checks itself on boot for corruption, and will fix automatically
-everything is encrypted as a default.
Will the hardware be more reliable? No I don't think so. It's just commoditize netbook parts. You get what you pay for. Somewhere in the value chain, parts have to be serviced or replaced because there is nothing special about the hardware to make more reliable. It will fail just much a other netbooks and laptops. That service cost will be accounted somewhere.
builds have to be sighed off by Google before they're allowed to use the Chrome name. It's not commoditized netbook parts.
I agree that virtual storage through the cloud would be nice thing as it automatically gives you a backup, but that really doesn't come fore free. There are inherent push-pull problems with virtual drives as bandwidth is not free. When we get there, with the magic cloud invisibly everywhere, it won't be because it is cheaper, but safer and more convenient. Cloud will be more expensive.
this is assuming bandwidth will stay the same price or increase the opposite is true. And again, this is NOT meant to replace your full computer if you use the computer a lot. IT's meant to add to it, or for those users who do almost everything on the web.
Will it make the netbook form factor any better? Why would it? The netbook form factor "niche" has been defined with it not taking over the world. People want 14, 15, 16 screen sizes on laptops, while netbook devices appears to have stopped at about 10% of the PC market (40m units). If Google and friends want it to be a game changer, I think it needs to be a 14" device minimum.
netbooks struggled because of cramped keyboards and because windows sucked on that hardware. This offers a full keyboard, and the software is optimized for the hardware. larger screen resolutions will most likely come. This is the INITIAL RELEASE.
If it is a game changer, it needs to save money (I'm not seeing this yet) or enable better usage models (I'm not seeing this yet). In the end, it's going to be about Google commoditizing software so that it defuses MS operating system and Office automation monopolies. Don't see where ChromeOS does this. Some say it will be great for Enterprise, but I don't see it. MS has at least a 5 year lead on everyone else with MS Office. It's probably a 10 year lead on Google Docs.
-It can save companies and schools potentially thousands a year, and reduce headaches considerably.
-Better usage models? you mean like their programs for schools and businesses?
-or the fact that you can access your information from ANY chrome machine? That's a new usage model. Or the fact that you never have to worry about updating your device, or dealing with clearing out space.. also a new usage model.
-This is the Freaking INITIAL RELEASE. It WILL NOT be able to do everything the currently industry leader can out the gate. Seriously, this expectation for everything to be "instantly better" is stupid.
-For how MOST people use MS Office, Google Documents does more than what they need. All the "added" features are for continuously smaller niche markets. And again, it's the freaking initial release. The product was given a launch date and devices TODAY.
Somewhere I read that iPad isn't affecting netbook sales... 'course they didn't count iPad 2 sales...
...I heard that were very smooth...
Here are the specs of the Samsung model.Higher ppi than 13? MBP though very likely not as good a display.
Lightweight with long battery life (5 hours of continuous video, BTW).
The big things I want to note are the keyboard and trackpad that mirror Apple?s notebooks. in fact, the reports say it?s the best trackpad outside of Apple?s notebooks.
Those are netbook features and the price isn?t much higher.
So? what are netbook sales projections for 2011? Surely higher than 300k. While this uses the same CPU as a netbook that?s pretty much it as you can see from the specs. Could a chromebook put another hurt on the cramped netbooks that take minutes to boot compared to this 8 second boot machine? I think it can. I think it will.
I don't get it. What's the advantage of this?
Will the TCO be cheaper than netbooks? If you think so, why? I don't see any reason for it be so. There will be viruses and malware on it, they'll just be called extensions or rogue javascript code. Will there be as much as XP? Obviously not, but I don't think it will be anymore than Win7 or Mac OS X.
TCO is not just removing malware and viruses but also things like installing and updating software, applying patches, updating drivers, ...
Companies are already migrating their software into the browser to reduce IT costs. Moving from Windows to ChromeOS is just the final step.
netbooks struggled because of cramped keyboards and because windows sucked on that hardware. This offers a full keyboard, and the software is optimized for the hardware. larger screen resolutions will most likely come. This is the INITIAL RELEASE.
I think you may have defined the market place -- users that didn't want to do much but bought netbooks and Windows got in their way.
What remains to be seen is: did these users really need Windows or will they be satisfied with less capability... That can actually be used.
I have no experience here...
I don't know!
Edit: If a ChromeBook can deliver on the promise of a netbook... Then I can see some real potential!