Simply stated, the web provides about 10% of what we (5 people) use computers for -- it'd be a lot less if I didn't follow these forums.
When I'm at my Mac I typically use several apps. Currently I am using:
-- Safari
-- Mail
-- Interactive Brokers Stocktrader (done for the day, but monitor after-hour trades and news)
-- GarageBand
-- Apple FCP Motion 4
-- QuickTime 7
-- iPhoto
-- iTunes
Sure, some of this I can do through a Web OS -- but where, how do I do the things that can't?
I can visualize classes of uses (not users) where limited Web-based apps would be sufficient.
However, I do not believe that Web-based apps are sufficient to satisfy most uses in business, home and personal.
Safari: surely you know how that can be used on Chrome OS.
Mail: surely you know how that can be access on Chrome OS.
Interactive Stock app: why don?t you think this can?t be done in a web browser?
GarageBand: This is not a common use for a work/education/low income computer.
FCP: same as above.
QuickTime: it plays videos, both online and offline, which you can access via the USB port.
iPhoto: You have offline and online access to your photos.
iTunes: Google and Amazon have just released a couple options and Apple will shortly be following suit.
Again, why do you think overpowered and overpriced machines need to fill corporations just to access the web browser?
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For example: is there a ChromeOS app to teach math; Spanish; how to tell time...
Did you ask these questions about apps the very day the App Store was announced with the presumption it was a failed concept?
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Edit: I know I'm gonna' get zapped for this...
But how is ChromeOS/ChromeBook different than WebTV with a built-in display?
*sigh* Why don?t yoou download and install Chrome OS so you can see how it differs from WebTV. You might as well ask how it differs from a rock. (Not the social browser, an actual rock!)
Every major corporation I?ve worked for leased most of their PCs. It?s not necessarily cheaper, but they get to outsource the repair and replacement and get to alter their unit numbers without incurring high up front cost which makes a big difference to managers trying to balance a budget for the quarter or the year.
So for $20 a month, you can lease a crappy sub-netbook system which doesn't run any of your existing software and does nothing but access the net.
For roughly the same $20 a month, you can lease a low-end desktop system that does everything you expect a computer to do. No need to retrain your employees and no need to obsolete your existing stuff.
No offence but I think you are 100% wrong on this. I work in Education and these things just don't fit the use cases at all.
It reminds me of Microsoft in that they seem to have simply no idea of the market they are trying to sell to. It's almost as if someone on the Chrome project sat down and said "hmmm ... where can we sell these things now we've made them? I bet schools would like them!" Educational technology needs to be designed for the situation from the ground up. These are just cheap laptops that cut out the Microsoft tax, but it isn't enough. I don't see it.
These things are too expensive, too underpowered and just don't have the necessary apps. Nor is there any reasonable expectation they can get them in the near future. Education needs are completely different from just editing a document and cruising the web. Most students need to edit video at a minimum, and there are dozens of specialty apps that simply won't be available.
Also, where is the support? Is Google "in the schools?" No. Do they have reps visiting schools finding out what apps are needed and what they can do to fix things or help out? No.
Apple does.
Edit:
In addition ... schools that do need word processing need Word. Anyone with any tech talent knows MS Word is POS but it's the standard format that everyone uses and it can't be gotten around. Apple is in the schools every day, supporting their needs and *still* they can't get them to switch Word for Pages even though Pages is a better product. A school can'st simply just switch to Google Docs overnight (or even over a matter of years). Ain't gonna happen.
Also, something most people aren't aware of ... most governments and educational institutions outside of the USA can't use Google Docs at all. Period. The reason being that it's illegal to have personal information stored on computers outside of the country. In Canada, it's a violation of the privacy act for example for a school to use Google docs. Some do it anyway but only a small number.
Schools that need MS Word will have machine that can run MS Word. That doesn?t mean that all machines everywhere need to have MS Word.
You say you work in education. So tell me how a college with an admin setup of 50 machines (personal example) for registering for class with everything locked out except for IE will need to have MS Word running on those machines? Tell me why these need to be running C2D and have 4GB RAM just to access IE?
Some people here have no understanding of capital budgets, return on capital, etc.
Obviously including you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz
This is a CIO's dream. $28/mo and everything is taken care off. Vs. having to map out a plan with a high up front capital cost for IT upgrades and having to incur the ongoing costs for software and hardware support.
They're already leasing hardware. For the same $28 / mo, they're getting a decent desktop system that runs all their existing software and that doesn't require them to retrain their employees or lose productivity while the employee tries to figure out how to make the thing work. Not to mention no need to take a risk on an unproven platform from an unproven hardware vendor.
What possible advantage is there? The overwhelming majority of enterprise computers are desktops, so the portability is actually a DISadvantage.
And the small number of people who do need portable computers will probably not find these sub-netbook systems to be suitable.
Simply stated, the web provides about 10% of what we (5 people) use computers for -- it'd be a lot less if I didn't follow these forums.
When I'm at my Mac I typically use several apps. Currently I am using :
-- Safari
-- Mail
-- Interactive Brokers Stocktrader (done for the day, but monitor after-hour trades and news)
-- GarageBand
-- Apple FCP Motion 4
-- QuickTime 7
-- iPhoto
-- iTunes
See bold. That's where your argument starts to fall apart. Your usage is not the same as everybody elses. The average persion is certainly not using Final Cut Pro or even iPhoto.
The average person surfs on the browser, watches stuff on youtube, maybe plays a flash based game on the net, checks facebook, checks webmail, etc. Chrome is perfect for all this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Sure, some of this I can do through a Web OS -- but where, how do I do the things that can't?
On your other machine. While you can do it, how many people use their iPad as their primary device to edit video?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
I can visualize classes of uses (not users) where limited Web-based apps would be sufficient.
However, I do not believe that Web-based apps are sufficient to satisfy most uses in business, home and personal.
You've obviously never seen any kind of simple data entry job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
For example: is there a ChromeOS app to teach math; Spanish; how to tell time...
And if there isn't, why can't these be developed? This is seriously flawed logic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
But how is ChromeOS/ChromeBook different than WebTV with a built-in display?
Mostly it isn't. And there isn't anything wrong with that. It's a tad more powerful (being based on a full and proper browser). And it runs a browser people are already familiar with. There's value in that.
You say you work in education. So tell me how a college with an admin setup of 50 machines (personal example) for registering for class with everything locked out except for IE will need to have MS Word running on those machines? Tell me why these need to be running C2D and have 4GB RAM just to access IE?
Sure - as soon as you tell me why they should buy a crappy sub-notebook which is far more limited which will cost them as much as buying a C2D system with 4 GB of RAM.
But, apparently, it has been in use by business for a while.
I do understand the concept of a laptop. I have one. I have looked at netbooks -- never wanted one.
So, along comes a special, low-cost? laptop that just runs a web browser and some local copies of web apps.
Pardon me, but it is a leap in logic (at least for me) to assume that a browser and some web apps can do what I or any of the other 4 members of the household do on their computers.
Everyone can do surfing, email, WP, SS, etc. -- those are "meets min" for any computing device.
Can you create and edit a simple movie on a ChromeBook? We do this daily.
You obviously lack the imagination to see how most people would find a good browser useful for their computer needs. No use debating when you think the average family edits video every night.
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Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
What about games or other specialty apps?
There's an app store. Angry birds is already out.
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Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
They say you can run apps while off line. What apps?
Everything that runs offline in your browser now (like Google docs) will run offline in Chrome OS....because it's a browser.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
To me, the whole issue is going to be about:
1) the apps available for the device
2) whether these apps can satisfy the bulk of a person's computer needs
3) the cost
At $1,008 ($28 per month for 36 months) I can buy a pretty nice iPad, BT KB, and lots of apps.
1) It'll build up....like the app store for any platform. Just give it time.
2) It'll be part of a solution. Nobody intends for any user to solely use Chromebooks for everything. You aren't going to be doing CAD on a Chromebook.
4) Leasing is one option. That was offered directly by Google as a service to businesses and educational institutions. You can buy directly from a retailer if you wish. And it won't cost you $1000.
The average person doesn?t do this, but there is no reason it can?t be done. Can?t you upload and edit with YouTube already?
Yes and yes. They already announced Angry Birds. They have an app store and you can buy apps for it.
Any app that is localized, which would include native apps for playing audio, video and Google Docs.
This shouldn?t be an issue for you and tells me you?re not looking at this clearly. There are plenty of App Store apps that simply don?t work when your iDevice doesn?t have an internet connection. Flicker, Words with Friends, and Maps are the first three that come to mind.
1) Just like anything else it needs to have apps, but it already has the ones for education and business: docs and web browser. Just like Android Marketplace and Apple?s App Store before it it will take time to build. If it doesn?t it could sink the product but I wouldn?t count out web code based apps just yet when there has been so many impressive feats on the internet proper and on WebOS.
2) Why does it have to be ?the bulk?? My iPhone apps don?t satisfy ?the bulk? of my computer app needs yet they are indispensable nonetheless. I could live without Words with Friends, but I don?t want to. BTW, Wowrds with Friends could be easily added to the Chrome OS app store.
3) The cost has already been shown to be considerably less than a desktop or laptop for the intended utility and market.
That is pretty dumb math. I don?t see you using the same iPad for 3 straight years, but you?re also talking about a $1000+ upfront costs which simply don?t exist since you are paying a per month fee. Are you seriously trying to argue that an iPad is a replacement for an iPad and that an iPad sitting in a keyboard dock could at a 100 tables in a library or 50 terminals at a schools? admin building or at 1000 desks at a company that accesses all data via the browser on their LAN?
Right now, I can't answer all your questions -- I don't have enough knowledge.
I will reserve final opinion until I do some research.
In the mean time, I will play devil's advocate.
I do have some pretty good intuition and 55 years worth of experience with computers and their predecessors.
As I understand the ChromeBook/Chrome OS offering it has to get critical mass to be broadly accepted.
I have yet to see anything to convince me that it will attain that critical mass.
I have seen a series of half-assed, half-hearted Google offerings -- that are announced with great noise -- then left to wither and die.
Who knows -- Chrome may be a whole-assed offering.
But a lot of Chrome's success depends on the enterprise where Microsoft is active and entrenched.
Much as I'd like to see MS get some come-uppance, I don't believe Google has the chops to compete in this arena (neither does Apple).
Sure - as soon as you tell me why they should buy a crappy sub-notebook which is far more limited which will cost them as much as buying a C2D system with 4 GB of RAM.
You can get a C2D with 4GB of RAM for $429? Where???
Schools that need MS Word will have machine that can run MS Word. That doesn?t mean that all machines everywhere need to have MS Word.
You say you work in education. So tell me how a college with an admin setup of 50 machines (personal example) for registering for class with everything locked out except for IE will need to have MS Word running on those machines? Tell me why these need to be running C2D and have 4GB RAM just to access IE?
I've never seen such a setup.
I was talking "class sets" of machines bought for schools (elementary and high school), for educational use. These chromebooks are just no good for that at all.
I work at a University so I'm not sure what a US college is like. Colleges are a whole different thing up here. In Canada, colleges are budget places where you go to prepare for University usually because you can't afford the University or your grades are poor or you are starting late in life etc. Regular students go from high-school direct to University unless their grades aren't good enough. The Universities generally have multiple, large computer labs fitted out with multi-purpose computers (Mac or PC). They are secured, and the applications are controlled, but they all have Word. I don't think I've even seen a computer without MS Office on it for years.
I've never heard of one that "locked a lab down" to be only "browsers only" for any purpose. You register from one of the labs, or more likely from home. If you don't have access to the web from home it's just too bad. I'm not sure what the point would be for a college or university to buy all that hardware/software and then only allow people to browse? and only within the college admissions system??? If that really happens then a chromebook would be a good replacement for that situation I guess, but WTF are they doing in the first place with that?
Also, by the time you get to University, if you don't have your own computer you would be in a very, very, tiny minority. You have to be rich to go to University or upper-middle class at least. Why would you not have your own laptop even if it wasn't a new one?
Yep I agree with this. I think it's a good gamble by Google. I wonder how much people are willing ot have google tracking everything they do and say.
What Google is gambling on is people's ignorance/apathy about Google's snooping into everyone's lives in pursuit of ad revenue. At least half of my friends have gmail accounts, and when I get all "tin-foil hat" about Google's intrusive behavior, their general response is "Meh, whatever".
Schools and universities might even like that--if students know that their correspondence is being constantly monitored, then they might be more likely to behave themselves. Google is the new hall-monitor. They track student online behavior so school administrators don't have to! \
You need to remember this includes service/upgrade etc for the schools, which is a huge cost to schools, it's not consumers renting this for $20/month.
36 months = $720 vs $499. for iPad which has browser and multiple education apps.
Need a a keyboard - Bluetooth $69. Need an external monitor $100 plus a connector. Damn good system, still less than $720.
What infrastructure does Google have to services the scools. Google just want the added advert impressions on the school kids.
However, could be a threat to the netbooks out there.
I reckon Apple can offer iPads with the same deal.
What Google is gambling on is people's ignorance/apathy about Google's snooping into everyone's lives in pursuit of ad revenue. At least half of my friends have gmail accounts, and when I get all "tin-foil hat" about Google's intrusive behavior, their general response is "Meh, whatever".
Schools and universities might even like that--if students know that their correspondence is being constantly monitored, then they might be more likely to behave themselves. Google is the new hall-monitor. They track student online behavior so school administrators don't have to! \
Yep the truth is most people don't mind Google tracking everything they are doing as long as they can do it. That's a fair point.
what happens when they stop paying? does google send out a team to collect? it's a certainty that those $20 per month charges will have an enormous default rate.
where is the support coming from? this is a new kettle of fish for google to try and fry.
Hmm. All good points. As I've posted before, I can see the ChromeBooks as a great concept... but...
- Lease them only to institutions and businesses (perhaps of a certain size/# of Cbooks?) to keep the default rate down (or at least you can recover the Cbooks).
- Support could come from "partners" like Best Buy or Fry's, etc... otherwise the institution has to mail in the Cbook... yuck.
- Re: losing the machine. Well, it could be disabled and the institution (again) has their CC auto debited some depreciating amount.
It's really sad when people let their inner fanboy blind them from technological advances.
Solipsism got it right. He sees the value in this.
As do I. For the average high schooler or non-science/engineering student, what is the need for a laptop that costs on average $500-%700...or if you go Apple, closer to $1000? Do they really need that kind of processing or graphics power to surf the web, write essays and check Facebook? And then there's the cost of all the Office software you have to buy. You're never spending just $500.
Tablets are not a decent solution. Nobody is going to sit down and work on an essay for hours on an iPad. The iPad is also severely limited by onboard storage.
Now bring in a thin client connected to the cloud. It's perfect for any student that doesn't have to do CAD or graphics work. No need for MS Office. Just work off Google Docs. And given that many universities are now switching their e-mail systems over to Google (Google Apps), and given that most campuses have great wifi, the next logical step is to deploy these kinds of thin clients.
And even better if Google is offering a total solution for hardware and software and if they will manage it all for $20 per month. It's an attractive proposition for universities. Costs are low. Capital budgets are preserved. And Google manages the whole thing for them.
As for competition with Apple. It's not the same thing. Apple sells computers to schools and students. They haven't cared much for actually taking the whole responsibility for IT, out of the hands of university CIOs.
It might take off. It might not. Too early to tell. But I don't think the idea should be dismissed off-hand just because it came from Google.
Good points. When I was in university, there were terminals all over campus, and so you were never more than 10 steps away from access to your e-mail/schedule/grades/etc. (pre-smartphone days). The "thin-client model". This process would be even more streamlined if everyone could carry their thin-clients with them. Really, if you're just writing papers, you wouldn't need more than 256 MB RAM (plenty to run a browser), and maybe a couple GB of flash storage. But you would need a full-sized keyboard. Apple's MBA is a beautiful little machine for your typical English major, but is way overpowered and overpriced for an English major's needs.
(I can't believe I'm actually arguing against Apple!)
As for the subscription, a university could easily fold that cost into the tuition.
Peabody, the reason Apple can't get schools to adopt iWork is because as a default iwork saves all files in a format that you can ONLY read with another apple computer that also has iwork. Sure, they are working on a web version, but it still requires that YOU have a apple computer with iwork (or at leas the login of one) to access the information.
Gdocs can read almost any format (save apples) when it comes to popular document formats, and it lets you download them in ANY format you want. Yes, you can do this with iWork, but it's not the default option. MS office is the default choice for schools because it is nearly universal (even iwork can read MS office docs) and it works a heck of a lot better then OpenOffice (loads faster, etc). What they need is a word processor whose format is universal. Gdocs provides that.
And you don't have to retrain, not really.
1- It's a browser. If people can't understand a browser you need to train them PERIOD.
2- A lot of schools and businesses are running on WindowsXP and 5+ year old hardware. This means that they're not "throwing these computers away" it means they're finally updating.
And most universities have locked down computer labs. In fact, most of them do. If you haven't heard of it it's because your system is obviously very different. And you don't have to be "rich" to go to university. Far from it.
But you bring up a good point. Why should someone (where money is an issue) drop $1000 on a macbook, or a few hundred on a crappy suboptimized laptop when they can buy a product that does EVERYTHING the typical student needs, offers a full keyboard and larger screen, better battery life, etc... all for the same price as cheap-ass laptops that double as heating pads?
It's really sad when people let their inner fanboy blind them from technological advances.
Solipsism got it right. He sees the value in this.
As do I. For the average high schooler or non-science/engineering student, what is the need for a laptop that costs on average $500-%700...or if you go Apple, closer to $1000? Do they really need that kind of processing or graphics power to surf the web, write essays and check Facebook? And then there's the cost of all the Office software you have to buy. You're never spending just $500.
Tablets are not a decent solution. Nobody is going to sit down and work on an essay for hours on an iPad. The iPad is also severely limited by onboard storage.
The iPad, assuming on the net, has as much storage as a chromebook, no?
The iPad with a good keyboard dock is just as viable for writing essays. Even more so for a tablet like the Eee Pad Transformer. All three have netbook style keyboards as near as I can tell.
I'd rather have an Android or iOS tablet.
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Now bring in a thin client connected to the cloud. It's perfect for any student that doesn't have to do CAD or graphics work. No need for MS Office.
Except that MS Office is in the cloud as well and costs $6 per month for business users. Not $28. And you can deploy to your own servers which schools systems already maintains.
Just work off Google Docs. And given that many universities are now switching their e-mail systems over to Google (Google Apps), and given that most campuses have great wifi, the next logical step is to deploy these kinds of thin clients.
There's no need to deploy thin clients when most students bring a real laptop to school with them. $28/month vs $0/month. Or less than $6 if you want to deploy MS Office 360.
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It might take off. It might not. Too early to tell. But I don't think the idea should be dismissed off-hand just because it came from Google.
Nobody is dismissing it just because it came from Google as much as the only reason it has any credibility is because it comes from Google.
Given how easily is seems HB Gary got compromised on Google I'd sure as hell not use GMail and Google Apps for business. The weakest link, even at a security company, is the executive staff. At least two-factor is available on Google apps but it's a real pain in the ass.
Comments
Will there be a Chrome-based tablet?
See my earlier post!
Simply stated, the web provides about 10% of what we (5 people) use computers for -- it'd be a lot less if I didn't follow these forums.
When I'm at my Mac I typically use several apps. Currently I am using:
-- Safari
-- Mail
-- Interactive Brokers Stocktrader (done for the day, but monitor after-hour trades and news)
-- GarageBand
-- Apple FCP Motion 4
-- QuickTime 7
-- iPhoto
-- iTunes
Sure, some of this I can do through a Web OS -- but where, how do I do the things that can't?
I can visualize classes of uses (not users) where limited Web-based apps would be sufficient.
However, I do not believe that Web-based apps are sufficient to satisfy most uses in business, home and personal.
Safari: surely you know how that can be used on Chrome OS.
Mail: surely you know how that can be access on Chrome OS.
Interactive Stock app: why don?t you think this can?t be done in a web browser?
GarageBand: This is not a common use for a work/education/low income computer.
FCP: same as above.
QuickTime: it plays videos, both online and offline, which you can access via the USB port.
iPhoto: You have offline and online access to your photos.
iTunes: Google and Amazon have just released a couple options and Apple will shortly be following suit.
Again, why do you think overpowered and overpriced machines need to fill corporations just to access the web browser?
For example: is there a ChromeOS app to teach math; Spanish; how to tell time...
Did you ask these questions about apps the very day the App Store was announced with the presumption it was a failed concept?
Edit: I know I'm gonna' get zapped for this...
But how is ChromeOS/ChromeBook different than WebTV with a built-in display?
*sigh* Why don?t yoou download and install Chrome OS so you can see how it differs from WebTV. You might as well ask how it differs from a rock. (Not the social browser, an actual rock!)
Every major corporation I?ve worked for leased most of their PCs. It?s not necessarily cheaper, but they get to outsource the repair and replacement and get to alter their unit numbers without incurring high up front cost which makes a big difference to managers trying to balance a budget for the quarter or the year.
So for $20 a month, you can lease a crappy sub-netbook system which doesn't run any of your existing software and does nothing but access the net.
For roughly the same $20 a month, you can lease a low-end desktop system that does everything you expect a computer to do. No need to retrain your employees and no need to obsolete your existing stuff.
Explain again why it makes sense?
No offence but I think you are 100% wrong on this. I work in Education and these things just don't fit the use cases at all.
It reminds me of Microsoft in that they seem to have simply no idea of the market they are trying to sell to. It's almost as if someone on the Chrome project sat down and said "hmmm ... where can we sell these things now we've made them? I bet schools would like them!" Educational technology needs to be designed for the situation from the ground up. These are just cheap laptops that cut out the Microsoft tax, but it isn't enough. I don't see it.
These things are too expensive, too underpowered and just don't have the necessary apps. Nor is there any reasonable expectation they can get them in the near future. Education needs are completely different from just editing a document and cruising the web. Most students need to edit video at a minimum, and there are dozens of specialty apps that simply won't be available.
Also, where is the support? Is Google "in the schools?" No. Do they have reps visiting schools finding out what apps are needed and what they can do to fix things or help out? No.
Apple does.
Edit:
In addition ... schools that do need word processing need Word. Anyone with any tech talent knows MS Word is POS but it's the standard format that everyone uses and it can't be gotten around. Apple is in the schools every day, supporting their needs and *still* they can't get them to switch Word for Pages even though Pages is a better product. A school can'st simply just switch to Google Docs overnight (or even over a matter of years). Ain't gonna happen.
Also, something most people aren't aware of ... most governments and educational institutions outside of the USA can't use Google Docs at all. Period. The reason being that it's illegal to have personal information stored on computers outside of the country. In Canada, it's a violation of the privacy act for example for a school to use Google docs. Some do it anyway but only a small number.
Schools that need MS Word will have machine that can run MS Word. That doesn?t mean that all machines everywhere need to have MS Word.
You say you work in education. So tell me how a college with an admin setup of 50 machines (personal example) for registering for class with everything locked out except for IE will need to have MS Word running on those machines? Tell me why these need to be running C2D and have 4GB RAM just to access IE?
+1
A lot of companies already do this.
Some people here have no understanding of capital budgets, return on capital, etc.
Obviously including you.
This is a CIO's dream. $28/mo and everything is taken care off. Vs. having to map out a plan with a high up front capital cost for IT upgrades and having to incur the ongoing costs for software and hardware support.
They're already leasing hardware. For the same $28 / mo, they're getting a decent desktop system that runs all their existing software and that doesn't require them to retrain their employees or lose productivity while the employee tries to figure out how to make the thing work. Not to mention no need to take a risk on an unproven platform from an unproven hardware vendor.
What possible advantage is there? The overwhelming majority of enterprise computers are desktops, so the portability is actually a DISadvantage.
And the small number of people who do need portable computers will probably not find these sub-netbook systems to be suitable.
See my earlier post!
Simply stated, the web provides about 10% of what we (5 people) use computers for -- it'd be a lot less if I didn't follow these forums.
When I'm at my Mac I typically use several apps. Currently I am using :
-- Safari
-- Mail
-- Interactive Brokers Stocktrader (done for the day, but monitor after-hour trades and news)
-- GarageBand
-- Apple FCP Motion 4
-- QuickTime 7
-- iPhoto
-- iTunes
See bold. That's where your argument starts to fall apart. Your usage is not the same as everybody elses. The average persion is certainly not using Final Cut Pro or even iPhoto.
The average person surfs on the browser, watches stuff on youtube, maybe plays a flash based game on the net, checks facebook, checks webmail, etc. Chrome is perfect for all this.
Sure, some of this I can do through a Web OS -- but where, how do I do the things that can't?
On your other machine. While you can do it, how many people use their iPad as their primary device to edit video?
I can visualize classes of uses (not users) where limited Web-based apps would be sufficient.
However, I do not believe that Web-based apps are sufficient to satisfy most uses in business, home and personal.
You've obviously never seen any kind of simple data entry job.
For example: is there a ChromeOS app to teach math; Spanish; how to tell time...
And if there isn't, why can't these be developed? This is seriously flawed logic.
But how is ChromeOS/ChromeBook different than WebTV with a built-in display?
Mostly it isn't. And there isn't anything wrong with that. It's a tad more powerful (being based on a full and proper browser). And it runs a browser people are already familiar with. There's value in that.
You say you work in education. So tell me how a college with an admin setup of 50 machines (personal example) for registering for class with everything locked out except for IE will need to have MS Word running on those machines? Tell me why these need to be running C2D and have 4GB RAM just to access IE?
Sure - as soon as you tell me why they should buy a crappy sub-notebook which is far more limited which will cost them as much as buying a C2D system with 4 GB of RAM.
But, apparently, it has been in use by business for a while.
I do understand the concept of a laptop. I have one. I have looked at netbooks -- never wanted one.
So, along comes a special, low-cost? laptop that just runs a web browser and some local copies of web apps.
Pardon me, but it is a leap in logic (at least for me) to assume that a browser and some web apps can do what I or any of the other 4 members of the household do on their computers.
Everyone can do surfing, email, WP, SS, etc. -- those are "meets min" for any computing device.
Can you create and edit a simple movie on a ChromeBook? We do this daily.
You obviously lack the imagination to see how most people would find a good browser useful for their computer needs. No use debating when you think the average family edits video every night.
What about games or other specialty apps?
There's an app store. Angry birds is already out.
They say you can run apps while off line. What apps?
Everything that runs offline in your browser now (like Google docs) will run offline in Chrome OS....because it's a browser.
To me, the whole issue is going to be about:
1) the apps available for the device
2) whether these apps can satisfy the bulk of a person's computer needs
3) the cost
At $1,008 ($28 per month for 36 months) I can buy a pretty nice iPad, BT KB, and lots of apps.
1) It'll build up....like the app store for any platform. Just give it time.
2) It'll be part of a solution. Nobody intends for any user to solely use Chromebooks for everything. You aren't going to be doing CAD on a Chromebook.
3) Cheaper than a iPad: http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/11/s...me-os-laptops/
4) Leasing is one option. That was offered directly by Google as a service to businesses and educational institutions. You can buy directly from a retailer if you wish. And it won't cost you $1000.
The average person doesn?t do this, but there is no reason it can?t be done. Can?t you upload and edit with YouTube already?
Yes and yes. They already announced Angry Birds. They have an app store and you can buy apps for it.
Any app that is localized, which would include native apps for playing audio, video and Google Docs.
This shouldn?t be an issue for you and tells me you?re not looking at this clearly. There are plenty of App Store apps that simply don?t work when your iDevice doesn?t have an internet connection. Flicker, Words with Friends, and Maps are the first three that come to mind.
1) Just like anything else it needs to have apps, but it already has the ones for education and business: docs and web browser. Just like Android Marketplace and Apple?s App Store before it it will take time to build. If it doesn?t it could sink the product but I wouldn?t count out web code based apps just yet when there has been so many impressive feats on the internet proper and on WebOS.
2) Why does it have to be ?the bulk?? My iPhone apps don?t satisfy ?the bulk? of my computer app needs yet they are indispensable nonetheless. I could live without Words with Friends, but I don?t want to. BTW, Wowrds with Friends could be easily added to the Chrome OS app store.
3) The cost has already been shown to be considerably less than a desktop or laptop for the intended utility and market.
That is pretty dumb math. I don?t see you using the same iPad for 3 straight years, but you?re also talking about a $1000+ upfront costs which simply don?t exist since you are paying a per month fee. Are you seriously trying to argue that an iPad is a replacement for an iPad and that an iPad sitting in a keyboard dock could at a 100 tables in a library or 50 terminals at a schools? admin building or at 1000 desks at a company that accesses all data via the browser on their LAN?
Right now, I can't answer all your questions -- I don't have enough knowledge.
I will reserve final opinion until I do some research.
In the mean time, I will play devil's advocate.
I do have some pretty good intuition and 55 years worth of experience with computers and their predecessors.
As I understand the ChromeBook/Chrome OS offering it has to get critical mass to be broadly accepted.
I have yet to see anything to convince me that it will attain that critical mass.
I have seen a series of half-assed, half-hearted Google offerings -- that are announced with great noise -- then left to wither and die.
Who knows -- Chrome may be a whole-assed offering.
But a lot of Chrome's success depends on the enterprise where Microsoft is active and entrenched.
Much as I'd like to see MS get some come-uppance, I don't believe Google has the chops to compete in this arena (neither does Apple).
Here's an interesting question:
Will there be a Chrome-based tablet?
No.
Chrome is not a touch friendly OS.
Sure - as soon as you tell me why they should buy a crappy sub-notebook which is far more limited which will cost them as much as buying a C2D system with 4 GB of RAM.
You can get a C2D with 4GB of RAM for $429? Where???
Schools that need MS Word will have machine that can run MS Word. That doesn?t mean that all machines everywhere need to have MS Word.
You say you work in education. So tell me how a college with an admin setup of 50 machines (personal example) for registering for class with everything locked out except for IE will need to have MS Word running on those machines? Tell me why these need to be running C2D and have 4GB RAM just to access IE?
I've never seen such a setup.
I was talking "class sets" of machines bought for schools (elementary and high school), for educational use. These chromebooks are just no good for that at all.
I work at a University so I'm not sure what a US college is like. Colleges are a whole different thing up here. In Canada, colleges are budget places where you go to prepare for University usually because you can't afford the University or your grades are poor or you are starting late in life etc. Regular students go from high-school direct to University unless their grades aren't good enough. The Universities generally have multiple, large computer labs fitted out with multi-purpose computers (Mac or PC). They are secured, and the applications are controlled, but they all have Word. I don't think I've even seen a computer without MS Office on it for years.
I've never heard of one that "locked a lab down" to be only "browsers only" for any purpose. You register from one of the labs, or more likely from home. If you don't have access to the web from home it's just too bad. I'm not sure what the point would be for a college or university to buy all that hardware/software and then only allow people to browse? and only within the college admissions system??? If that really happens then a chromebook would be a good replacement for that situation I guess, but WTF are they doing in the first place with that?
Also, by the time you get to University, if you don't have your own computer you would be in a very, very, tiny minority. You have to be rich to go to University or upper-middle class at least. Why would you not have your own laptop even if it wasn't a new one?
Yep I agree with this. I think it's a good gamble by Google. I wonder how much people are willing ot have google tracking everything they do and say.
What Google is gambling on is people's ignorance/apathy about Google's snooping into everyone's lives in pursuit of ad revenue. At least half of my friends have gmail accounts, and when I get all "tin-foil hat" about Google's intrusive behavior, their general response is "Meh, whatever".
Schools and universities might even like that--if students know that their correspondence is being constantly monitored, then they might be more likely to behave themselves. Google is the new hall-monitor. They track student online behavior so school administrators don't have to!
You need to remember this includes service/upgrade etc for the schools, which is a huge cost to schools, it's not consumers renting this for $20/month.
36 months = $720 vs $499. for iPad which has browser and multiple education apps.
Need a a keyboard - Bluetooth $69. Need an external monitor $100 plus a connector. Damn good system, still less than $720.
What infrastructure does Google have to services the scools. Google just want the added advert impressions on the school kids.
However, could be a threat to the netbooks out there.
I reckon Apple can offer iPads with the same deal.
Yep, cloud computing sucks.
Good thing there's nothing like that for OS X.
"Cloud Computing" and utilizing "the cloud" on a stand alone computer are two very different things. Just pointing that out.
What Google is gambling on is people's ignorance/apathy about Google's snooping into everyone's lives in pursuit of ad revenue. At least half of my friends have gmail accounts, and when I get all "tin-foil hat" about Google's intrusive behavior, their general response is "Meh, whatever".
Schools and universities might even like that--if students know that their correspondence is being constantly monitored, then they might be more likely to behave themselves. Google is the new hall-monitor. They track student online behavior so school administrators don't have to!
Yep the truth is most people don't mind Google tracking everything they are doing as long as they can do it. That's a fair point.
what happens when soemone loses their machine?
what happens when they stop paying? does google send out a team to collect? it's a certainty that those $20 per month charges will have an enormous default rate.
where is the support coming from? this is a new kettle of fish for google to try and fry.
Hmm. All good points. As I've posted before, I can see the ChromeBooks as a great concept... but...
- Lease them only to institutions and businesses (perhaps of a certain size/# of Cbooks?) to keep the default rate down (or at least you can recover the Cbooks).
- Support could come from "partners" like Best Buy or Fry's, etc... otherwise the institution has to mail in the Cbook... yuck.
- Re: losing the machine. Well, it could be disabled and the institution (again) has their CC auto debited some depreciating amount.
It's really sad when people let their inner fanboy blind them from technological advances.
Solipsism got it right. He sees the value in this.
As do I. For the average high schooler or non-science/engineering student, what is the need for a laptop that costs on average $500-%700...or if you go Apple, closer to $1000? Do they really need that kind of processing or graphics power to surf the web, write essays and check Facebook? And then there's the cost of all the Office software you have to buy. You're never spending just $500.
Tablets are not a decent solution. Nobody is going to sit down and work on an essay for hours on an iPad. The iPad is also severely limited by onboard storage.
Now bring in a thin client connected to the cloud. It's perfect for any student that doesn't have to do CAD or graphics work. No need for MS Office. Just work off Google Docs. And given that many universities are now switching their e-mail systems over to Google (Google Apps), and given that most campuses have great wifi, the next logical step is to deploy these kinds of thin clients.
And even better if Google is offering a total solution for hardware and software and if they will manage it all for $20 per month. It's an attractive proposition for universities. Costs are low. Capital budgets are preserved. And Google manages the whole thing for them.
As for competition with Apple. It's not the same thing. Apple sells computers to schools and students. They haven't cared much for actually taking the whole responsibility for IT, out of the hands of university CIOs.
It might take off. It might not. Too early to tell. But I don't think the idea should be dismissed off-hand just because it came from Google.
Good points. When I was in university, there were terminals all over campus, and so you were never more than 10 steps away from access to your e-mail/schedule/grades/etc. (pre-smartphone days). The "thin-client model". This process would be even more streamlined if everyone could carry their thin-clients with them. Really, if you're just writing papers, you wouldn't need more than 256 MB RAM (plenty to run a browser), and maybe a couple GB of flash storage. But you would need a full-sized keyboard. Apple's MBA is a beautiful little machine for your typical English major, but is way overpowered and overpriced for an English major's needs.
(I can't believe I'm actually arguing against Apple!)
As for the subscription, a university could easily fold that cost into the tuition.
Gdocs can read almost any format (save apples) when it comes to popular document formats, and it lets you download them in ANY format you want. Yes, you can do this with iWork, but it's not the default option. MS office is the default choice for schools because it is nearly universal (even iwork can read MS office docs) and it works a heck of a lot better then OpenOffice (loads faster, etc). What they need is a word processor whose format is universal. Gdocs provides that.
And you don't have to retrain, not really.
1- It's a browser. If people can't understand a browser you need to train them PERIOD.
2- A lot of schools and businesses are running on WindowsXP and 5+ year old hardware. This means that they're not "throwing these computers away" it means they're finally updating.
And most universities have locked down computer labs. In fact, most of them do. If you haven't heard of it it's because your system is obviously very different. And you don't have to be "rich" to go to university. Far from it.
But you bring up a good point. Why should someone (where money is an issue) drop $1000 on a macbook, or a few hundred on a crappy suboptimized laptop when they can buy a product that does EVERYTHING the typical student needs, offers a full keyboard and larger screen, better battery life, etc... all for the same price as cheap-ass laptops that double as heating pads?
It's really sad when people let their inner fanboy blind them from technological advances.
Solipsism got it right. He sees the value in this.
As do I. For the average high schooler or non-science/engineering student, what is the need for a laptop that costs on average $500-%700...or if you go Apple, closer to $1000? Do they really need that kind of processing or graphics power to surf the web, write essays and check Facebook? And then there's the cost of all the Office software you have to buy. You're never spending just $500.
Tablets are not a decent solution. Nobody is going to sit down and work on an essay for hours on an iPad. The iPad is also severely limited by onboard storage.
The iPad, assuming on the net, has as much storage as a chromebook, no?
The iPad with a good keyboard dock is just as viable for writing essays. Even more so for a tablet like the Eee Pad Transformer. All three have netbook style keyboards as near as I can tell.
I'd rather have an Android or iOS tablet.
Now bring in a thin client connected to the cloud. It's perfect for any student that doesn't have to do CAD or graphics work. No need for MS Office.
Except that MS Office is in the cloud as well and costs $6 per month for business users. Not $28. And you can deploy to your own servers which schools systems already maintains.
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/offic...-software.aspx
Just work off Google Docs. And given that many universities are now switching their e-mail systems over to Google (Google Apps), and given that most campuses have great wifi, the next logical step is to deploy these kinds of thin clients.
There's no need to deploy thin clients when most students bring a real laptop to school with them. $28/month vs $0/month. Or less than $6 if you want to deploy MS Office 360.
It might take off. It might not. Too early to tell. But I don't think the idea should be dismissed off-hand just because it came from Google.
Nobody is dismissing it just because it came from Google as much as the only reason it has any credibility is because it comes from Google.
Given how easily is seems HB Gary got compromised on Google I'd sure as hell not use GMail and Google Apps for business. The weakest link, even at a security company, is the executive staff. At least two-factor is available on Google apps but it's a real pain in the ass.