<strong>ok, just for clearification, how would you measure intelligence?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Certainly not by your standards. I'm not going to sit here and call you racist, but your position seems really, really ignorant. It's kinda sad to me.
Intelligence is not measured by the size of someone's vocabulary. It's not measured by their accent either. Ability to memorize dates has nothing to do with it. Motivation in your school has nothing to do with it. Motivation in ANY school has nothing to do with it.
As a matter of fact, academics have almost nothing to do with intelligence. It's not measured by testing, it's not measured by attendance, it's not measured by your spelling abilities or your ability to use too many commas in a run on sentence.
Groverat, perhaps you can now see that racism is not so subtly different from my stance, but rather obviously different when you allow an argument to come into focus. Unfortunately for too many people in this thread, "race" has appropriated meanings better used by "community" and "culture." Who can blame you, or them? These appropriations are epidemic, and they derail both sides. Communities and cultures are open to judgement and harsh critique, "race" is just a distraction, a reality also, but not specifically determinant of anything other physical characteristics.
<strong>usualy it's the students who DON'T need help that come for extra lessons...... and the ones that really need help see the after school sessions as punishment.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Holy dogballs, batman, we may have stumbled across something here!
You're telling me they don't perform well in school and actually view school as a punishment? Think those two things might be linked more than a supposed genetic predisposition?
I find it odd that you explain a fact (the blacks in your school do poorly) with speculation (they are genetically wired to be less intelligent) over a very real indicator (they view school as punishment).
Hmmmmmmm I'm no Jean Piaget, but I think we've found something.
[quote]<strong> i never said they're genetically deficent in the smarts department.
i don't think genes are it... if i was a geneticist, i'd be posting somewhere else.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well genes are it, friend, that's all we've got when we're first born and it was you, not me, who said "all men are NOT born equal."
What you do by saying "it's not genes, it's something else" is an attempt to avoid saying something that you don't feel you should/can say.
Of course, you think the restriction is artificial, a construct of an over-sensitive society when in reality you simply are unable to back up your belief.
Your conclusion that blacks/hispanics are born less intelligent is a very very simple and narrow conclusion that requires no study because, to you, it's simply evident.
[quote]<strong>sure it's not scientific. it's just like you didn't get shell shock from watching Vietnam war on your tv set. army dudes who were in the trenches got shell shock, b/c they were there.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You teach high school I am to understand.
And, in your experience with blacks/hispanics from ages 13-18 you have confidence that your observations of that age group's performance in school is a sound basis for believing that their races are born less intelligent?
Unless they are born at age 13, I fail to see where your observations qualify. Surely in your profession you interact with kindergarten teachers (who are as close as public schooling gets to dealing with the child "as they were born"), how many have you met that share your ideas?
[quote]<strong>ok, just for clearification, how would you measure intelligence?</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's really not possible. I am not a big fan of grades because people I consider unable to handle many essential social functions become so adept at how education-testing works that they perform very well, seeming intelligent to you.
Intelligence is too broad a term, which is why your assertion that blacks/hispanics are born as less intelligent is so, shall we say, interesting?
I, too, find it surprising that these attitudes still exist among my fellow educated white brethren outside of Arkansas and Alabama.
Comments
<strong>ok, just for clearification, how would you measure intelligence?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Certainly not by your standards. I'm not going to sit here and call you racist, but your position seems really, really ignorant. It's kinda sad to me.
Intelligence is not measured by the size of someone's vocabulary. It's not measured by their accent either. Ability to memorize dates has nothing to do with it. Motivation in your school has nothing to do with it. Motivation in ANY school has nothing to do with it.
As a matter of fact, academics have almost nothing to do with intelligence. It's not measured by testing, it's not measured by attendance, it's not measured by your spelling abilities or your ability to use too many commas in a run on sentence.
<strong>usualy it's the students who DON'T need help that come for extra lessons...... and the ones that really need help see the after school sessions as punishment.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Holy dogballs, batman, we may have stumbled across something here!
You're telling me they don't perform well in school and actually view school as a punishment? Think those two things might be linked more than a supposed genetic predisposition?
I find it odd that you explain a fact (the blacks in your school do poorly) with speculation (they are genetically wired to be less intelligent) over a very real indicator (they view school as punishment).
Hmmmmmmm I'm no Jean Piaget, but I think we've found something.
[quote]<strong> i never said they're genetically deficent in the smarts department.
i don't think genes are it... if i was a geneticist, i'd be posting somewhere else.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well genes are it, friend, that's all we've got when we're first born and it was you, not me, who said "all men are NOT born equal."
What you do by saying "it's not genes, it's something else" is an attempt to avoid saying something that you don't feel you should/can say.
Of course, you think the restriction is artificial, a construct of an over-sensitive society when in reality you simply are unable to back up your belief.
Your conclusion that blacks/hispanics are born less intelligent is a very very simple and narrow conclusion that requires no study because, to you, it's simply evident.
[quote]<strong>sure it's not scientific. it's just like you didn't get shell shock from watching Vietnam war on your tv set. army dudes who were in the trenches got shell shock, b/c they were there.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You teach high school I am to understand.
And, in your experience with blacks/hispanics from ages 13-18 you have confidence that your observations of that age group's performance in school is a sound basis for believing that their races are born less intelligent?
Unless they are born at age 13, I fail to see where your observations qualify. Surely in your profession you interact with kindergarten teachers (who are as close as public schooling gets to dealing with the child "as they were born"), how many have you met that share your ideas?
[quote]<strong>ok, just for clearification, how would you measure intelligence?</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's really not possible. I am not a big fan of grades because people I consider unable to handle many essential social functions become so adept at how education-testing works that they perform very well, seeming intelligent to you.
Intelligence is too broad a term, which is why your assertion that blacks/hispanics are born as less intelligent is so, shall we say, interesting?
I, too, find it surprising that these attitudes still exist among my fellow educated white brethren outside of Arkansas and Alabama.