[quote]Guys, guys, guys, have a little place in your monotheistic hearts for polytheists. We're people too <hr></blockquote>
hindus (polytheists) are taught to be tolerant, perhaps it's because one of there gods is half man, half elephant!
wait i've got it! "in ganesh we trust" and put a picture of him on the back of all coins! i'd go for that! and he's a god, so you know, all you guys who dig god could get behind it!
not that I even resemble an authority on hinduism, though - iirc, many (if not all?) hindu gods are incarnations of the same god... different images of the same god. In this perspective, they don't seem quite as polytheistic. maybe someone can shed a little light on this
BR, the Founding Fathers firmly believed that the nation they created was a vehicle of a higher power. They were enamoured with the idea of the US as the New Jerusalem, the City on a Hill. They started every session of the Constitutional Convention with a prayer for guidance. In fact, religion was such a pervasive part of thought and life then that it would only be truly remarkable if they didn't see things through God-colored glasses. What is true, of course, is that they didn't necessarily subscribe to the traditional Protestant-nee-Baptist view of things. Many of them were more Diests (God-as-watchmaker) than Christians. I think it's better to think of the God in "In God We Trust" as the Higher Power of AA, rather than the God of the New Testament. But to deny that our nation was founded in such spirituality is to deny an essential part of our heritage.</strong><hr></blockquote>oh yeah . . . um......no
adamantly against having the word "God" on our money . . adamantly they were. . . and why would a CHristian want God on money . . . .um . . . render onto Ceasar?!?!?
as for the founding attitudes, to that founder once again:
[quote] The Christian god can be easily pictured as virtually the same as the many ancient gods of past civilisations. The Christian god is a three-headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the calibre of the people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites."
Maybe if the criticism of this country were done in a more constructive and less hostile way, people might listen.
Some of you guys that want to criticize "the system", seem very intolerant of people who disagree with you, yet you are the very ones who LOUDLY accuse others of intolerance.
it's not fun having god rammed down your throat on a daily basis, if you think it's a bunch of hoodoo. normally i say nothing, but this is a forum where we can express our feelings, even if they are hostile, in fact if our feelings are hostile are they any less legitimate?
so either state your position or bugger off, don't pretend to help us decide what's constructive or not.
[quote]as for the founding attitudes, to that founder once again:<hr></blockquote>
Jefferson also wrote the rather more famous line "...are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights...". I don't necessarily disagree with you that Jefferson disliked the notion of the Christian God of his day, but that doesn't mean Jefferson was a pure humanist. In fact, much of his writing seems to bring out a faith in a higher power of some sort.
As for currency, I'd be curious to read some primary sources about the Founding Father's views on the appropriateness of a motto containing "God". If America was the New Jersusalem, then it wouldn't suprise me if the God/Caesar thing didn't bother them, or if the unity of the two was even appealing. And didn't "Rebellion against tyranny is Obedience to God" narrowly lose out to "E pluribus unum?" (thankfully; such a perfect motto we wound up with, IMO).
come to think of it he may be the perfect embodiment of everything america is.
but think about the first amendment, the first thing the founding fathers decided to add on to the constitution was an amendment prohibiting the government from making any laws "respecting an establishment of religion."
"under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in the 50s, at least keep your arguments straight.</strong><hr></blockquote>
On July 30, 1956, the 84th Congress passed a law declaring "IN GOD WE TRUST" to be the national motto of the United States.(P.L. 84-140)Law 36 U.S.C. 186, titled "National Motto," and states in its entirety:
?The national motto of the United States is declared to be `In God We Trust"
Comments
hindus (polytheists) are taught to be tolerant, perhaps it's because one of there gods is half man, half elephant!
wait i've got it! "in ganesh we trust" and put a picture of him on the back of all coins! i'd go for that! and he's a god, so you know, all you guys who dig god could get behind it!
is there a satire smiley?
more directly on topic:
god bless america, and may god bless the world.
<strong>
god bless america, and may god bless the world.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Um. Thank you.
<strong>
BR, the Founding Fathers firmly believed that the nation they created was a vehicle of a higher power. They were enamoured with the idea of the US as the New Jerusalem, the City on a Hill. They started every session of the Constitutional Convention with a prayer for guidance. In fact, religion was such a pervasive part of thought and life then that it would only be truly remarkable if they didn't see things through God-colored glasses. What is true, of course, is that they didn't necessarily subscribe to the traditional Protestant-nee-Baptist view of things. Many of them were more Diests (God-as-watchmaker) than Christians. I think it's better to think of the God in "In God We Trust" as the Higher Power of AA, rather than the God of the New Testament. But to deny that our nation was founded in such spirituality is to deny an essential part of our heritage.</strong><hr></blockquote>oh yeah . . . um......no
adamantly against having the word "God" on our money . . adamantly they were. . . and why would a CHristian want God on money . . . .um . . . render onto Ceasar?!?!?
as for the founding attitudes, to that founder once again:
[quote] The Christian god can be easily pictured as virtually the same as the many ancient gods of past civilisations. The Christian god is a three-headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the calibre of the people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites."
-----(Thomas Jefferson)
<hr></blockquote>
oh yeah, and white only drinking fountains, mccarthyism, blacklists, etc.
Some of you guys that want to criticize "the system", seem very intolerant of people who disagree with you, yet you are the very ones who LOUDLY accuse others of intolerance.
Too many people have too short fuses these days.
i was being intolerant facetiously.
it's not fun having god rammed down your throat on a daily basis, if you think it's a bunch of hoodoo. normally i say nothing, but this is a forum where we can express our feelings, even if they are hostile, in fact if our feelings are hostile are they any less legitimate?
so either state your position or bugger off, don't pretend to help us decide what's constructive or not.
Jefferson also wrote the rather more famous line "...are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights...". I don't necessarily disagree with you that Jefferson disliked the notion of the Christian God of his day, but that doesn't mean Jefferson was a pure humanist. In fact, much of his writing seems to bring out a faith in a higher power of some sort.
As for currency, I'd be curious to read some primary sources about the Founding Father's views on the appropriateness of a motto containing "God". If America was the New Jersusalem, then it wouldn't suprise me if the God/Caesar thing didn't bother them, or if the unity of the two was even appealing. And didn't "Rebellion against tyranny is Obedience to God" narrowly lose out to "E pluribus unum?" (thankfully; such a perfect motto we wound up with, IMO).
can be found at the U.S. Treasury <a href="http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.html"; target="_blank">here.</a>
(and it was the Civil War)
edit: That means it dates back to 1864, which was a loooong time ago.
[ 02-03-2003: Message edited by: alcimedes ]</p>
"all men created equal" / slave-owner
come to think of it he may be the perfect embodiment of everything america is.
but think about the first amendment, the first thing the founding fathers decided to add on to the constitution was an amendment prohibiting the government from making any laws "respecting an establishment of religion."
that speaks volumes doesn't it?
can be found at the U.S. Treasury here.
(and it was the Civil War)
edit: That means it dates back to 1864, which was a loooong time ago. <hr></blockquote>
and it also says that it was not adopted as our national motto until the 1950's.
"under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in the 50s, at least keep your arguments straight.
<strong>National motto?
"under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in the 50s, at least keep your arguments straight.</strong><hr></blockquote>
On July 30, 1956, the 84th Congress passed a law declaring "IN GOD WE TRUST" to be the national motto of the United States.(P.L. 84-140)Law 36 U.S.C. 186, titled "National Motto," and states in its entirety:
?The national motto of the United States is declared to be `In God We Trust"
[ 02-03-2003: Message edited by: BR ]</p>
[ 02-03-2003: Message edited by: superkaratemonkeydeathcar ]</p>
<strong>so are you talking about coins still or something else now?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Coins, Motto, Pledge, foreign policy speeches...It's all one issue.
Fricking stupid and certainly unConstitutional as a legal document if you ask me.