There will always be a general direction smartphones will be heading.
I would respectfully disagree and think that this is why Apple succeeded - they turned the general direction on it's head in terms of design, features, price and usability. And they are doing it with their computer lines as well - the air has been around for some time now and companies are trying to play catchup instead of innovate because hey just think in terms of a general direction.
For the record H-P never stated they were scrapping webOS software, only webOS hardware, so the article as written is inaccurate.
They have always stated that they planned to continue supporting the OS. Whether they live up to this promise is another question of course, especially as H-P seem to be on a path to self-destruction right now.
And of course if you want to sell WebOS you should better say everybody it is great and you see a great future for it (just not in your own business).
It is a bit contradictory what HP is signaling. Though one must say that NeXT once did the same, stop hardware and go on with the software. But that only became a success when they were bought by Apple thus marrying hard- and software again.
I still think there are possible other candidates that have much bigger software weaknesses in their offering (or no software worth mentioning), e.g. Sony, Sony Ericsson, Nintendo, Intel, Amazon, Barnes&Noble....
Those that are currently engaged in an enterprise "relationship" with HP are fully aware of their bottom-tier status, and are reminded of it daily. Where else can it take more than five days to execute a chmod?
Through innovation at least. The only way to destroy Android is through litigation. As even if Apple truly owns the top tier market Android still won't fade.
I disagree!
By buying MMI, Google sends a message to Android licensees, that Google is now in a position to compete with them. Not only that, Moogle has access to parts of Android that are not accessible to its licensee. Moogle, if it chooses, can go into competition with Android phone manufactures -- and it can develop, tune and reserve Android features to Moogle hardware.
Some have suggested Google must make handsets to recoup their $12.5 Billion purchase of MMI:
-- selling the Handset division without the patents makes little sense to a potential buyer
-- killing the handset division means it would take a decade to recoup its investment
-- charging a license fee per handset may drive away Android licensees
-- MMI patents may not be powerful enough to deflect litigation facing Google
AIR, Google pays MMI $2.5 Billion if it backs out of the deal.
Even if Google cuts its losses -- the message has already ben sent to Android Licensees.
So, Google may have gotten itself into a position where anything it does will make the situation worse -- Nice work, Larry!
By buying MMI, Google sends a message to Android licensees, that Google is now in a position to compete with them. Not only that, Moogle has access to parts of Android that are not accessible to its licensee. Moogle, if it chooses, can go into competition with Android phone manufactures -- and it can develop, tune and reserve Android features to Moogle hardware.
Some have suggested Google must make handsets to recoup their $12.5 Billion purchase of MMI:
-- selling the Handset division without the patents makes little sense to a potential buyer
-- killing the handset division means it would take a decade to recoup its investment
-- charging a license fee per handset may drive away Android licensees
-- MMI patents may not be powerful enough to deflect litigation facing Google
AIR, Google pays MMI $2.5 Billion if it backs out of the deal.
Even if Google cuts its losses -- the message has already ben sent to Android Licensees.
So, Google may have gotten itself into a position where anything it does will make the situation worse -- Nice work, Larry!
Maybe they bought Moto so they back up the vendors that want to use Android. (hahahahaha)
Sure, just wait until the Motorola Mobility buy-out is approved. Despite Google's insistence of "we're going to run Motorola like a separate company", does anyone really believe that its Mobile phones won't have an edge over other companies Android phones, much like the current Nexus branded phones do right now, and that eventually Motorola Mobility will disappear into Google. Sure they might put up this pretense to start with, but eventually they're going to realize that having control over the software and hardware gives them an edge over Apple and others.
I want Samsung gone because they refuse to compete. I want actual competition more than all the people who whine that Apple is trying to become a monopoly by suing everyone.
They're suing because no one else is actually innovating. They're copying line for line from Apple's designs, both hardware (list of hardware manufacturers here) and software (Android and any OEM UI overlays).
That's why I love Windows Phone 7 even though I abhor everything else Microsoft has ever done (though I do respect that they've done online gaming right. Way better than either Sony or Nintendo's solutions). Windows Phone 7 is completely different from iOS. They actually did something that wasn't a blatant photocopy of Apple's stuff.
The hardware? Looks like iPhone hardware, but Microsoft's not in charge of that.
But that's beside the point.
My original comment alluded to the fact that WebOS seems to be the herpes of smartphone software. Whoever has it eventually has to snip off the affected areas or risk being done in by it. It meant nothing more than that.
I'm in total agreement with you -- and I usually hate Microsoft apps.
With Windows Phone -- they at LEAST are trying to innovate -- but I think it's not going to be enough.
Samsung has done nothing but be a cloner for a long time -- they just copy everybody else and refine the process.
They are NOT the company that is going to do much with WebOS.
>> I think WebOS has a good future -- but more as a "business solutions" platform that can run on top of other phones, browsers and operating systems. The problem isn't it's quality -- it's "mindshare" -- and I figure that developers are going to do iOS or Android first and then branch out from there. Some old-time Microsoft shops are going to do Windows Phone 7 -- but those are companies that have been churning out "whatever" in Visual Basic for a decade. But those are "solution providers" -- and they might use something like WebOS.
There is a market for the corporate programmers, who are not really that gifted but they are trying to solve problems for their own companies -- so there needs to be a Visual Basic for phones that can mesh with the desktop. WebOS could carve out a nitch there.
But Samsung would probably do another me-to smartphone/tablet. I'm also guessing they will give Acer a run for their money on crapware loaded PCs.
Wrong. The only way to destroy Android is if Google becomes a manufacturer of smartphones.
Wait. What?! Oh yeah... that already happened.
I give Android 2 more good years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
I disagree!
By buying MMI, Google sends a message to Android licensees, that Google is now in a position to compete with them. Not only that, Moogle has access to parts of Android that are not accessible to its licensee. Moogle, if it chooses, can go into competition with Android phone manufactures -- and it can develop, tune and reserve Android features to Moogle hardware.
Some have suggested Google must make handsets to recoup their $12.5 Billion purchase of MMI:
-- selling the Handset division without the patents makes little sense to a potential buyer
-- killing the handset division means it would take a decade to recoup its investment
-- charging a license fee per handset may drive away Android licensees
-- MMI patents may not be powerful enough to deflect litigation facing Google
AIR, Google pays MMI $2.5 Billion if it backs out of the deal.
Even if Google cuts its losses -- the message has already ben sent to Android Licensees.
So, Google may have gotten itself into a position where anything it does will make the situation worse -- Nice work, Larry!
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_lha
Sure, just wait until the Motorola Mobility buy-out is approved. Despite Google's insistence of "we're going to run Motorola like a separate company", does anyone really believe that its Mobile phones won't have an edge over other companies Android phones, much like the current Nexus branded phones do right now, and that eventually Motorola Mobility will disappear into Google. Sure they might put up this pretense to start with, but eventually they're going to realize that having control over the software and hardware gives them an edge over Apple and others.
sounds like a crapload of speculation fueled by your intense hatred of anything non-Apple to me.
My guess is that Google picked up Motorolla's cell phone PATENTS so they could use them to defend against patent lawsuits.
Sure -- it's not really anything involving Android -- but if Apple or some other company sues them on the software they MIGHT sue them on the hardware.
The OTHER angle Google might take is creating a "Carrier free" phone -- it's a hedge against something like AT&T + T-Mobile gobbling up cell towers. You could create wire-less only phones, or pick up G3 when available. MOST of us now have wireless at the office and home -- it's only inbetween when we don't have fast access we could piggy-back off of. So some arrangement with one of the B-List city cell phone companies could cover the lower bandwidth phone calls.
I don't think Google is going to come out with an Android Phone and compete directly against their own licensors --- but you never know. Personally, I think it would KILL Android if they did and give Microsoft or WebOS a chance.
My guess is that Google picked up Motorolla's cell phone PATENTS so they could use them to defend against patent lawsuits.
Sure -- it's not really anything involving Android -- but if Apple or some other company sues them on the software they MIGHT sue them on the hardware.
The OTHER angle Google might take is creating a "Carrier free" phone -- it's a hedge against something like AT&T + T-Mobile gobbling up cell towers. You could create wire-less only phones, or pick up G3 when available. MOST of us now have wireless at the office and home -- it's only inbetween when we don't have fast access we could piggy-back off of. So some arrangement with one of the B-List city cell phone companies could cover the lower bandwidth phone calls.
I don't think Google is going to come out with an Android Phone and compete directly against their own licensors --- but you never know. Personally, I think it would KILL Android if they did and give Microsoft or WebOS a chance.
Google going vertical would decimate Android beyond repair. I know I'm not alone here but I kinda wish they would. at the same time though I don't trust Google's design paradigm. if they even have one.
By buying MMI, Google sends a message to Android licensees, that Google is now in a position to compete with them.
I don't think any of us know what message Google has sent to the Open Handset Alliance members. I'd be pretty surprised if they made their communications with them public.
Quote:
Some have suggested Google must make handsets to recoup their $12.5 Billion purchase of MMI. . .
And some have suggested that they were concerned only with the patents.Some have suggested it's more about the cable boxes. It will be some time before there's any clear indications which camp is correct, or if any of them are.
But your opinion on what Google will actually do may be perfectly correct when all is said and done. Or all of us may be way off-base. Some commenters are making the assumption that Google just isn't very smart and hasn't mapped out a direction. Bad assumption IMHO.
When Google signs on the dotted line consider anything from MotoMobility to be a Google phone.
I can't see Google pissing $2.5 billion down the drain so I'd consider the deal as done.
Android has only 2 good years left and then it's cooked. LG will be gone from Android. Samsung will be gone from Android. Windows Phone will be gaining market share. Larry will be having his way with Android. ... and Google will have to go head to head with Apple.
iPhone 6 or 7 against Motorola Whatever.
That walled garden will start looking better and better to Page and Brin.
sounds like a crapload of speculation fueled by your intense hatred of anything non-Apple to me.
I'll match my, and Island Hermit's reasoned, and unbiased posting records against yours any day...
... I don't know enough about dr_lha to comment on his.
As to speculation, I am just analyzing Google's options -- of course that is speculation.
What do you think Google will do?
As to the chilling effect on Android licensees -- I have recently read articles about Sammy executives and South Korean Govt. officials urging [South Korean handset makers] to get off the Android train.
I will try to run them down and post links later, in an update.
Edit 1: Here's a link to an article, though not the best, showing Sammy's concern about the MMI purchase:
As to "intense hatred of anything non-Apple". That is overstated! I like non-apple products, and dislike some Apple products/choices.
I do not trust MS, because of personal dealings. I do not like Google because of their unethical, if not illegal, practices -- while flaunting their "Do No Evil" mantra.
Sammy, appears to make good products, but I do not respect them -- it appears as if they are violating the IP of others.
I choose to support and do business with those I trust, like, and respect!
Comments
There will always be a general direction smartphones will be heading.
I would respectfully disagree and think that this is why Apple succeeded - they turned the general direction on it's head in terms of design, features, price and usability. And they are doing it with their computer lines as well - the air has been around for some time now and companies are trying to play catchup instead of innovate because hey just think in terms of a general direction.
For the record H-P never stated they were scrapping webOS software, only webOS hardware, so the article as written is inaccurate.
They have always stated that they planned to continue supporting the OS. Whether they live up to this promise is another question of course, especially as H-P seem to be on a path to self-destruction right now.
And of course if you want to sell WebOS you should better say everybody it is great and you see a great future for it (just not in your own business).
It is a bit contradictory what HP is signaling. Though one must say that NeXT once did the same, stop hardware and go on with the software. But that only became a success when they were bought by Apple thus marrying hard- and software again.
I still think there are possible other candidates that have much bigger software weaknesses in their offering (or no software worth mentioning), e.g. Sony, Sony Ericsson, Nintendo, Intel, Amazon, Barnes&Noble....
yeah we sure as hell wouldn't want competition now would we.
Heh. "Competition" is androidspeak for "copy"
You're not thinking outside the box.
Those that are currently engaged in an enterprise "relationship" with HP are fully aware of their bottom-tier status, and are reminded of it daily. Where else can it take more than five days to execute a chmod?
Try IBM
Bada is a replacement for Samsung's proprietary OS that is meant to run on the low end devices. Not on the overpowered devices that run Android.
Microsoft should buy Bada instead and include Bing search, then call the whole thing Bada-Bing!
Microsoft should buy Bada instead and include Bing search, then call the whole thing Bada-Bing!
*rimshot*
^^This
None will destroy the other.
Through innovation at least. The only way to destroy Android is through litigation. As even if Apple truly owns the top tier market Android still won't fade.
I disagree!
By buying MMI, Google sends a message to Android licensees, that Google is now in a position to compete with them. Not only that, Moogle has access to parts of Android that are not accessible to its licensee. Moogle, if it chooses, can go into competition with Android phone manufactures -- and it can develop, tune and reserve Android features to Moogle hardware.
Some have suggested Google must make handsets to recoup their $12.5 Billion purchase of MMI:
-- selling the Handset division without the patents makes little sense to a potential buyer
-- killing the handset division means it would take a decade to recoup its investment
-- charging a license fee per handset may drive away Android licensees
-- MMI patents may not be powerful enough to deflect litigation facing Google
AIR, Google pays MMI $2.5 Billion if it backs out of the deal.
Even if Google cuts its losses -- the message has already ben sent to Android Licensees.
So, Google may have gotten itself into a position where anything it does will make the situation worse -- Nice work, Larry!
I disagree!
By buying MMI, Google sends a message to Android licensees, that Google is now in a position to compete with them. Not only that, Moogle has access to parts of Android that are not accessible to its licensee. Moogle, if it chooses, can go into competition with Android phone manufactures -- and it can develop, tune and reserve Android features to Moogle hardware.
Some have suggested Google must make handsets to recoup their $12.5 Billion purchase of MMI:
-- selling the Handset division without the patents makes little sense to a potential buyer
-- killing the handset division means it would take a decade to recoup its investment
-- charging a license fee per handset may drive away Android licensees
-- MMI patents may not be powerful enough to deflect litigation facing Google
AIR, Google pays MMI $2.5 Billion if it backs out of the deal.
Even if Google cuts its losses -- the message has already ben sent to Android Licensees.
So, Google may have gotten itself into a position where anything it does will make the situation worse -- Nice work, Larry!
Maybe they bought Moto so they back up the vendors that want to use Android. (hahahahaha)
Wrong. The only way to destroy Android is if Google becomes a manufacturer of smartphones.
Wait. What?! Oh yeah... that already happened.
I give Android 2 more good years.
show me a Google built phone...I'll be waiting
show me a Google built phone...I'll be waiting
Sure, just wait until the Motorola Mobility buy-out is approved. Despite Google's insistence of "we're going to run Motorola like a separate company", does anyone really believe that its Mobile phones won't have an edge over other companies Android phones, much like the current Nexus branded phones do right now, and that eventually Motorola Mobility will disappear into Google. Sure they might put up this pretense to start with, but eventually they're going to realize that having control over the software and hardware gives them an edge over Apple and others.
?
I want Samsung gone because they refuse to compete. I want actual competition more than all the people who whine that Apple is trying to become a monopoly by suing everyone.
They're suing because no one else is actually innovating. They're copying line for line from Apple's designs, both hardware (list of hardware manufacturers here) and software (Android and any OEM UI overlays).
That's why I love Windows Phone 7 even though I abhor everything else Microsoft has ever done (though I do respect that they've done online gaming right. Way better than either Sony or Nintendo's solutions). Windows Phone 7 is completely different from iOS. They actually did something that wasn't a blatant photocopy of Apple's stuff.
The hardware? Looks like iPhone hardware, but Microsoft's not in charge of that.
But that's beside the point.
My original comment alluded to the fact that WebOS seems to be the herpes of smartphone software. Whoever has it eventually has to snip off the affected areas or risk being done in by it. It meant nothing more than that.
I'm in total agreement with you -- and I usually hate Microsoft apps.
With Windows Phone -- they at LEAST are trying to innovate -- but I think it's not going to be enough.
Samsung has done nothing but be a cloner for a long time -- they just copy everybody else and refine the process.
They are NOT the company that is going to do much with WebOS.
>> I think WebOS has a good future -- but more as a "business solutions" platform that can run on top of other phones, browsers and operating systems. The problem isn't it's quality -- it's "mindshare" -- and I figure that developers are going to do iOS or Android first and then branch out from there. Some old-time Microsoft shops are going to do Windows Phone 7 -- but those are companies that have been churning out "whatever" in Visual Basic for a decade. But those are "solution providers" -- and they might use something like WebOS.
There is a market for the corporate programmers, who are not really that gifted but they are trying to solve problems for their own companies -- so there needs to be a Visual Basic for phones that can mesh with the desktop. WebOS could carve out a nitch there.
But Samsung would probably do another me-to smartphone/tablet. I'm also guessing they will give Acer a run for their money on crapware loaded PCs.
Wrong. The only way to destroy Android is if Google becomes a manufacturer of smartphones.
Wait. What?! Oh yeah... that already happened.
I give Android 2 more good years.
I disagree!
By buying MMI, Google sends a message to Android licensees, that Google is now in a position to compete with them. Not only that, Moogle has access to parts of Android that are not accessible to its licensee. Moogle, if it chooses, can go into competition with Android phone manufactures -- and it can develop, tune and reserve Android features to Moogle hardware.
Some have suggested Google must make handsets to recoup their $12.5 Billion purchase of MMI:
-- selling the Handset division without the patents makes little sense to a potential buyer
-- killing the handset division means it would take a decade to recoup its investment
-- charging a license fee per handset may drive away Android licensees
-- MMI patents may not be powerful enough to deflect litigation facing Google
AIR, Google pays MMI $2.5 Billion if it backs out of the deal.
Even if Google cuts its losses -- the message has already ben sent to Android Licensees.
So, Google may have gotten itself into a position where anything it does will make the situation worse -- Nice work, Larry!
Sure, just wait until the Motorola Mobility buy-out is approved. Despite Google's insistence of "we're going to run Motorola like a separate company", does anyone really believe that its Mobile phones won't have an edge over other companies Android phones, much like the current Nexus branded phones do right now, and that eventually Motorola Mobility will disappear into Google. Sure they might put up this pretense to start with, but eventually they're going to realize that having control over the software and hardware gives them an edge over Apple and others.
sounds like a crapload of speculation fueled by your intense hatred of anything non-Apple to me.
show me a Google built phone...I'll be waiting
My guess is that Google picked up Motorolla's cell phone PATENTS so they could use them to defend against patent lawsuits.
Sure -- it's not really anything involving Android -- but if Apple or some other company sues them on the software they MIGHT sue them on the hardware.
The OTHER angle Google might take is creating a "Carrier free" phone -- it's a hedge against something like AT&T + T-Mobile gobbling up cell towers. You could create wire-less only phones, or pick up G3 when available. MOST of us now have wireless at the office and home -- it's only inbetween when we don't have fast access we could piggy-back off of. So some arrangement with one of the B-List city cell phone companies could cover the lower bandwidth phone calls.
I don't think Google is going to come out with an Android Phone and compete directly against their own licensors --- but you never know. Personally, I think it would KILL Android if they did and give Microsoft or WebOS a chance.
My guess is that Google picked up Motorolla's cell phone PATENTS so they could use them to defend against patent lawsuits.
Sure -- it's not really anything involving Android -- but if Apple or some other company sues them on the software they MIGHT sue them on the hardware.
The OTHER angle Google might take is creating a "Carrier free" phone -- it's a hedge against something like AT&T + T-Mobile gobbling up cell towers. You could create wire-less only phones, or pick up G3 when available. MOST of us now have wireless at the office and home -- it's only inbetween when we don't have fast access we could piggy-back off of. So some arrangement with one of the B-List city cell phone companies could cover the lower bandwidth phone calls.
I don't think Google is going to come out with an Android Phone and compete directly against their own licensors --- but you never know. Personally, I think it would KILL Android if they did and give Microsoft or WebOS a chance.
Google going vertical would decimate Android beyond repair. I know I'm not alone here but I kinda wish they would. at the same time though I don't trust Google's design paradigm. if they even have one.
By buying MMI, Google sends a message to Android licensees, that Google is now in a position to compete with them.
I don't think any of us know what message Google has sent to the Open Handset Alliance members. I'd be pretty surprised if they made their communications with them public.
Some have suggested Google must make handsets to recoup their $12.5 Billion purchase of MMI. . .
And some have suggested that they were concerned only with the patents.Some have suggested it's more about the cable boxes. It will be some time before there's any clear indications which camp is correct, or if any of them are.
But your opinion on what Google will actually do may be perfectly correct when all is said and done. Or all of us may be way off-base. Some commenters are making the assumption that Google just isn't very smart and hasn't mapped out a direction. Bad assumption IMHO.
show me a Google built phone...I'll be waiting
Show me Google truly embracing "open" by releasing all their search algorithms... I'll be waiting.
show me a Google built phone...I'll be waiting
When Google signs on the dotted line consider anything from MotoMobility to be a Google phone.
I can't see Google pissing $2.5 billion down the drain so I'd consider the deal as done.
Android has only 2 good years left and then it's cooked. LG will be gone from Android. Samsung will be gone from Android. Windows Phone will be gaining market share. Larry will be having his way with Android. ... and Google will have to go head to head with Apple.
iPhone 6 or 7 against Motorola Whatever.
That walled garden will start looking better and better to Page and Brin.
sounds like a crapload of speculation fueled by your intense hatred of anything non-Apple to me.
I'll match my, and Island Hermit's reasoned, and unbiased posting records against yours any day...
... I don't know enough about dr_lha to comment on his.
As to speculation, I am just analyzing Google's options -- of course that is speculation.
What do you think Google will do?
As to the chilling effect on Android licensees -- I have recently read articles about Sammy executives and South Korean Govt. officials urging [South Korean handset makers] to get off the Android train.
I will try to run them down and post links later, in an update.
Edit 1: Here's a link to an article, though not the best, showing Sammy's concern about the MMI purchase:
Elaboration system of Samsung Bada or abandon the Android development itself
Edit 2: Here's a link about the South Korean Governmant:
South Korean Government Urges Samsung And LG To Forsake Android: "We Cannot Go On Like This"
As to "intense hatred of anything non-Apple". That is overstated! I like non-apple products, and dislike some Apple products/choices.
I do not trust MS, because of personal dealings. I do not like Google because of their unethical, if not illegal, practices -- while flaunting their "Do No Evil" mantra.
Sammy, appears to make good products, but I do not respect them -- it appears as if they are violating the IP of others.
I choose to support and do business with those I trust, like, and respect!
How about you?
And... I like New York in June... How about you?
I'll match my, and Island Hermit's reasoned, and unbiased posting records against yours any day...
How dare you say I'm reasoned and unbiased...