If Apple releases a model which looks the same it reduces the demand. There is less reason to upgrade from the 4 precisely for the reasons you state - the software is good enough.
We get that for free. Effectively the look of a phone brands it. Having different internals doesn't. The iMac is one model with different processors.
So, if true. Apple has one phone for 2012 , with different internals, from 32 G A5 to 8 G A4. That's sucicide in 2012.
The recent poll bears that out - 41 percent would buy an iPhone 5, but only 15% would buy a spec-bumped 4S.
Do we know this already? Of course not because Assistant is vaporware until proven otherwise. I see no point in using vaporware to claim superiority over other phones.
Since when have I treated Assitant like a confirmed feature? I was just pointing out its supposed (there, that makes you feel better?) differences related to Android's and iOS 4's speech recognition.
Quote:
Assuming this turns out to be true, it will increase the population of folks walking around talking to their phones. Of course, they will all be doing Awesome things.
I would like to see the U.S. follow do what many other countries in the world do...sell all the phones without a contract and without subsidization. THEN we would see the true value of a phone. This would definitely force people to THINK about the phone they are buying as it would likely be a more long-term ownership. Perhaps (riiiiight) we would also see more reasonable phone/data plans as well.
And yes, I purchased my last two phones off contract. Both my Samsung Focus ($180) and my previous iPhone 4 ($475) were purchased on eBay new-in-box with full warranties. If Apple doesn't come out with an upgraded phone, I'll just stick with the Win7 phone and buy an iPad for my iOS needs.
For the record, I do hope that Apple upgrades the design, as I don't care for the hard edges of the iPhone 4, but I am not holding my breath on this one. I expect only an iPhone 4s.
Finally, either way I hope Apple provides voice control at least on par with Mango. I LOVE being able to text purely via voice in Mango.
Even louder whining should it is indeed 4S and Apple stock drop below $340? So much hype was built up around iPhone 5, traders won't show mercy come Thursday morning.
Once again, you are making a fool of yourself. Below $340 would be a gift.
Apple has $82 per share in cash. No debt. It is adding $44 in cash per share per year (and growing) to the balance sheet. At current price of $380, it is trading at a ridiculously low forward P/E of 11.7 without backing out the cash. When you back out the cash, the forward P/E becomes 9.2. That is an 11% earnings yield.
I don't expect you to understand all this given the quality of your posts. But, hey, you want to short Apple? Go ahead.
Agreed. These Fandroids are all excitedly waiting for a new case design, tapered no less. Does not make much sense from a business strategy point of view. How the iPhone works is much more important, especially when the design is near-perfect in my opinion.
The screen needs to be bigger for the iPhone to remain king.
Because it is not cheap. The off contract price of the 3GS is more expensive than most Android devices. If Apple does that again it will not have a viable PAYG phone.
The problem is that enough suckers still buy the 3GS at its current price (in the US at least if you look at the charts of the most popular handsets by sales). The main reason for this is again that US carriers (with the small exception of T-Mobile) don't offer cheaper plans if you don't get a handset subsidy (or a much reduced subsidy). If the carriers have a subsidy of $500-550 built into all their smartphone plans, there is no point in offering a smartphone to them for less than $500. That is why the 3GS (unlocked) still costs $550 (in the UK before tax, a bit more in the Euro area, probably a bit less to AT&T).
That is also why you have the buy one get a second for free deals in the US. If the carriers have $550 of subsidy built into their plans, they can afford to give you two phones if the manufacturer sells them to them for much less than those $550. Cheaper smartphones (and in particular cheaper iPhones) in the US have to start with pressure on the carriers to offer subsidy-less smartphone plans.
Not really. Initially, the 4S will sell to those who own a 3GS from 2 years ago. And new users who are coming off a contract from somewhere else (Android or otherwise). And those who are getting a phone for the first time in the U.S and other countries (i.e. market growth).
Eventually, iPhone 4 users will get the 4s when their contract expires.
This is all just common sense.
I am a current 3GS owner (2 1/2 years), and I have to respectfully disagree. I did not see anything in the iPhone 4 that caused me to upgrade, and if the new model is simply a revamped 4, I'll wait again. IOS5 will run on my 3GS, so unless the hardware is a significant upgrade, why would I spend my money? A faster processor and better camera are hardly reasons to spend hundreds of dollars, but a larger screen, resolution, and other enhancements might entice me. I guess we will find out in a few days which way we are headed!
Of course everyone will. I will also be let down should that happen. However, the apocalyptical bullcrap about "iPhone pummeling" and how "the Galaxy Series won the spec war" surrounding the possibility of a minor upgrade is just that. BS.
41 to 15 is the magnitude of the pummeling. Nothing fatal.
.... that's still wrong You're mixing Spanish and Portuguese. The right would be saying "Muito Obrigado"
EDIT 2: Nevermind
Told you I suck at the "romance languages". Dancing seems to pull the chicks. The moment I open my mouth they have a different perception of me. Upper-crust Queen's English was what I was taught in the colonies and my native language. It don't sound too romantic though.
Anyways just when we thought brushing up on Chinese would help dissect the rumour sites now it's time to get familiar with Portuguese too. Ah well, just keep mashing stuff into Google Translate and eventually no one needs to learn any new languages.
I am a current 3GS owner (2 1/2 years), and I have to respectfully disagree. I did not see anything in the iPhone 4 that caused me to upgrade, and if the new model is simply a revamped 4, I'll wait again. IOS5 will run on my 3GS, so unless the hardware is a significant upgrade, why would I spend my money? A faster processor and better camera are hardly reasons to spend hundreds of dollars, but a larger screen, resolution, and other enhancements might entice me. I guess we will find out in a few days which way we are headed!
Kevin
Sent from my iPhone
If I was going to renew my contract with AT&T and the new phone was only a 4S I buy a 3GS with the renewed contract. The 3GS would only cost $50. It would make better sense to save the money and just buy an iPhone 5 (2012?) off contract (and factory unlocked to boot) directly from Apple. I agree in that the iPhone 4 didn't have enough to entice me to keep it. I bought one on eBay and sold it a month later.
The 3GS was essentially the same aesthetically as the 3G. The feature set was not a significant improvement. It was essentially *just* a speed bump, which was proven not to be bad mojo at all as the iPhone only became more popular. On the other hand, 15 months are a long time for a speed bump, unless the software is the reason for the delay.
Yes, but the the 3G to 3GS time span was only 12 months and that was during a time with much less competition from other company's devices. If this announcement turns out to be only the rumored 4S model I think it will be a huge disappoint to investors and customers alike.
It seems very similar to the whining heard when people are inflicted with postAppleproductintroductionitis.
It's all just the same form of whinitis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir
Why can't the 4 be the cheap model and the 4S the high-end one? That would be exactly the same situation that they had with the 3G being the low-end and the 3GS the high-end from summer 2009 through summer 2010.
Because people want a big nice, fat number to say, spend your money on this, the world is coming to a financial apocalypse but hey, it's iPhone 5, that's one more than 4, surely that's worth postponing your mortgage payments!
With so many of the rumors, leaked case designs, premature catalog entries etc., all apparently pointing to a new, thinner IP5 with a 4" screen, it seems hard to believe that they are all wrong. I can imagine case manufacturers speculating on a new form factor, but how would they know where to put the button cutouts?
Timing-wise, one might also expect Apple to want to put out something spectacular and new as reassurance after Steve Jobs' departure.
Apple's control on product release information is certainly impressive, but they must be aware that it also raises expectations and that Tuesday's event needs something pretty special to avoid major disappointment (even if that disappointment is unreasonable). It's conceivable that would be something other than the IP5 of course.
Is my reasoning skewed by wishful thinking perhaps?
iPhone 4S is the new iPhone3GS. iPhone 5 is the new iPhone 4. My feeling. No way iPhone 4S is the latest and greatest. That's like Apple saying, heck, let's just pack up shop now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd
It does look like just the 4s. And one model - well two if colour matters to you.
There are no real indications of iPhone 5 parts in the wild and the accessory makers are just guessing. I don't see them releasing a 4s and announcing a 5 for later as it will hamper the uptake of the 4s.
Prepare to be disappointed.
The lack of hardware updates from 2010-2011 will be why historians see as the major reason for Apples losing the phone market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell
My predictions are Apple will release two phones. One a slightly revised 4G phone, and a significantly revamped 4GS Phone. My only disappointment will be I would like a slightly larger screen, and I think Apple will probably lose a few customers over the screen size if it doesn't deliver (but I don't expect it increase the size). People, however, act like releasing it as a world phone, with double the speed, and a significantly improved camera is somehow a let down. Like always there will be some software development that will only work on the newer models, probably the voice abilities, which usually use a lot of processing power and consequently not work on the 4G and below models. That was what happened with camera functionality when Apple released the iPhone 4, only it could take advantage of new camera functionality. I also understand why Apple wouldn't' significantly redesign the body. It is still the number one selling phone. Why change that significantly when it is unnecessary.
Apple waited for over a year most likely because of iOS 5 not being ready. People forget the same team works on both the Mac OS, and iOS. A while back, the Mac OS was delayed while the team finished up iOS. Now the reverse probably is true. Further, it also made sense to move the release date of iOS 5 to when Apple also updates the iPods.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb
If there is indeed an iphone 4S there is no way there will be an iPhone 5. If they were the same price everyone would buy the 5. If doubt they would upgrade the 4 to a 4S and offer it as a cheaper alternative to a 5. Apple uses old models as the cheaper phone. Apple will launch one model: the iPhone 4S. And we will all skip it and wait until 2012 and buy the iPhone 5LTE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairthrope
You are in the hole so stop digging. Asdad argued, and won, that iPhone 4S isn't going to cut it across the Pacific where contracts are negligible and Samsung's Galaxy Series won the spec battle. Stop backtracking and weaseling, say sorry already.
Not to mention HTC Sense shell has crack Apple's design formula with Nokia SeaRay on shelves in Shanghai, Hong Hong and Kuala Lumper this November. And I mean CASH AND CARRY, not pre-order.
(Demo units of N9 and Sea Ray were in Bangkok Mobile Expo this weekend. If this is going to be a farewell release, they are among the best)
And Asdad, call your broker to short AAPL yet? I could use cash next month.
By the way, if we discount USA market entirely for being too isolate to provide reliable data, how iPhone 4 fare across the Atlantic. On this side iPhone is being pummeled but the line hold, Samsung launches SS Waffen brigade of Galaxy dual-core and 1.5GHz Plus with 3D sets coming from LG(Optimus 3D) and HTC(Evo 3D), all for the price of used iPhone 4.(฿17000)
While BB opens the BlackBerry Store to keep up with branding.
With so many of the rumors, leaked case designs, premature catalog entries etc., all apparently pointing to a new, thinner IP5 with a 4" screen, it seems hard to believe that they are all wrong. I can imagine case manufacturers speculating on a new form factor, but how would they know where to put the button cutouts?
Timing-wise, one might also expect Apple to want to put out something spectacular and new as reassurance after Steve Jobs' departure.
Apple's control on product release information is certainly impressive, but they must be aware that it also raises expectations and that Tuesday's event needs something pretty special to avoid major disappointment (even if that disappointment is unreasonable). It's conceivable that would be something other than the IP5 of course.
Is my reasoning skewed by wishful thinking perhaps?
All the wacky rumours are because of Apple's tight control post iPhone4-leak-fiasco and because iPhone4 is becoming iPhone4S and because of rampant speculation. iPhone5 will be interesting.
Even louder whining should it is indeed 4S and Apple stock drop below $340? So much hype was built up around iPhone 5, traders won't show mercy come Thursday morning.
I hope so. I'll be buying. Looking for something with long term value in an otherwise desolate financial landscape.
I am a current 3GS owner (2 1/2 years), and I have to respectfully disagree. I did not see anything in the iPhone 4 that caused me to upgrade, and if the new model is simply a revamped 4, I'll wait again. IOS5 will run on my 3GS, so unless the hardware is a significant upgrade, why would I spend my money? A faster processor and better camera are hardly reasons to spend hundreds of dollars, but a larger screen, resolution, and other enhancements might entice me. I guess we will find out in a few days which way we are headed!
My 3GS is laggy as hell with the latest iOS releases. With iOS 5 designed for the A5 processor, I can only imagine how poorly it will run on older, slower 3GS hardware.
Comments
If Apple releases a model which looks the same it reduces the demand. There is less reason to upgrade from the 4 precisely for the reasons you state - the software is good enough.
We get that for free. Effectively the look of a phone brands it. Having different internals doesn't. The iMac is one model with different processors.
So, if true. Apple has one phone for 2012 , with different internals, from 32 G A5 to 8 G A4. That's sucicide in 2012.
The recent poll bears that out - 41 percent would buy an iPhone 5, but only 15% would buy a spec-bumped 4S.
Suicide is right.
Do we know this already? Of course not because Assistant is vaporware until proven otherwise. I see no point in using vaporware to claim superiority over other phones.
Since when have I treated Assitant like a confirmed feature? I was just pointing out its supposed (there, that makes you feel better?) differences related to Android's and iOS 4's speech recognition.
Assuming this turns out to be true, it will increase the population of folks walking around talking to their phones. Of course, they will all be doing Awesome things.
Ouch. Way to cut out my optimism...
And yes, I purchased my last two phones off contract. Both my Samsung Focus ($180) and my previous iPhone 4 ($475) were purchased on eBay new-in-box with full warranties. If Apple doesn't come out with an upgraded phone, I'll just stick with the Win7 phone and buy an iPad for my iOS needs.
For the record, I do hope that Apple upgrades the design, as I don't care for the hard edges of the iPhone 4, but I am not holding my breath on this one. I expect only an iPhone 4s.
Finally, either way I hope Apple provides voice control at least on par with Mango. I LOVE being able to text purely via voice in Mango.
Even louder whining should it is indeed 4S and Apple stock drop below $340? So much hype was built up around iPhone 5, traders won't show mercy come Thursday morning.
Once again, you are making a fool of yourself. Below $340 would be a gift.
Apple has $82 per share in cash. No debt. It is adding $44 in cash per share per year (and growing) to the balance sheet. At current price of $380, it is trading at a ridiculously low forward P/E of 11.7 without backing out the cash. When you back out the cash, the forward P/E becomes 9.2. That is an 11% earnings yield.
I don't expect you to understand all this given the quality of your posts. But, hey, you want to short Apple? Go ahead.
Agreed. These Fandroids are all excitedly waiting for a new case design, tapered no less. Does not make much sense from a business strategy point of view. How the iPhone works is much more important, especially when the design is near-perfect in my opinion.
The screen needs to be bigger for the iPhone to remain king.
Because it is not cheap. The off contract price of the 3GS is more expensive than most Android devices. If Apple does that again it will not have a viable PAYG phone.
The problem is that enough suckers still buy the 3GS at its current price (in the US at least if you look at the charts of the most popular handsets by sales). The main reason for this is again that US carriers (with the small exception of T-Mobile) don't offer cheaper plans if you don't get a handset subsidy (or a much reduced subsidy). If the carriers have a subsidy of $500-550 built into all their smartphone plans, there is no point in offering a smartphone to them for less than $500. That is why the 3GS (unlocked) still costs $550 (in the UK before tax, a bit more in the Euro area, probably a bit less to AT&T).
That is also why you have the buy one get a second for free deals in the US. If the carriers have $550 of subsidy built into their plans, they can afford to give you two phones if the manufacturer sells them to them for much less than those $550. Cheaper smartphones (and in particular cheaper iPhones) in the US have to start with pressure on the carriers to offer subsidy-less smartphone plans.
Not really. Initially, the 4S will sell to those who own a 3GS from 2 years ago. And new users who are coming off a contract from somewhere else (Android or otherwise). And those who are getting a phone for the first time in the U.S and other countries (i.e. market growth).
Eventually, iPhone 4 users will get the 4s when their contract expires.
This is all just common sense.
I am a current 3GS owner (2 1/2 years), and I have to respectfully disagree. I did not see anything in the iPhone 4 that caused me to upgrade, and if the new model is simply a revamped 4, I'll wait again. IOS5 will run on my 3GS, so unless the hardware is a significant upgrade, why would I spend my money? A faster processor and better camera are hardly reasons to spend hundreds of dollars, but a larger screen, resolution, and other enhancements might entice me. I guess we will find out in a few days which way we are headed!
Kevin
Sent from my iPhone
Of course everyone will. I will also be let down should that happen. However, the apocalyptical bullcrap about "iPhone pummeling" and how "the Galaxy Series won the spec war" surrounding the possibility of a minor upgrade is just that. BS.
41 to 15 is the magnitude of the pummeling. Nothing fatal.
.... that's still wrong
EDIT 2: Nevermind
Anyways just when we thought brushing up on Chinese would help dissect the rumour sites now it's time to get familiar with Portuguese too. Ah well, just keep mashing stuff into Google Translate and eventually no one needs to learn any new languages.
Where's the hype about the iPhone 5? Have you seen a SINGLE Apple announcement?
Nope - it's all feeding frenzy from people who need a life.
People like AI writers "need a life"? Huh?
I am a current 3GS owner (2 1/2 years), and I have to respectfully disagree. I did not see anything in the iPhone 4 that caused me to upgrade, and if the new model is simply a revamped 4, I'll wait again. IOS5 will run on my 3GS, so unless the hardware is a significant upgrade, why would I spend my money? A faster processor and better camera are hardly reasons to spend hundreds of dollars, but a larger screen, resolution, and other enhancements might entice me. I guess we will find out in a few days which way we are headed!
Kevin
Sent from my iPhone
If I was going to renew my contract with AT&T and the new phone was only a 4S I buy a 3GS with the renewed contract. The 3GS would only cost $50. It would make better sense to save the money and just buy an iPhone 5 (2012?) off contract (and factory unlocked to boot) directly from Apple. I agree in that the iPhone 4 didn't have enough to entice me to keep it. I bought one on eBay and sold it a month later.
So...we wait another 48 hours.
The 3GS was essentially the same aesthetically as the 3G. The feature set was not a significant improvement. It was essentially *just* a speed bump, which was proven not to be bad mojo at all as the iPhone only became more popular. On the other hand, 15 months are a long time for a speed bump, unless the software is the reason for the delay.
Yes, but the the 3G to 3GS time span was only 12 months and that was during a time with much less competition from other company's devices. If this announcement turns out to be only the rumored 4S model I think it will be a huge disappoint to investors and customers alike.
-kpluck
It's all just the same form of whinitis.
Why can't the 4 be the cheap model and the 4S the high-end one? That would be exactly the same situation that they had with the 3G being the low-end and the 3GS the high-end from summer 2009 through summer 2010.
Because people want a big nice, fat number to say, spend your money on this, the world is coming to a financial apocalypse but hey, it's iPhone 5, that's one more than 4, surely that's worth postponing your mortgage payments!
Timing-wise, one might also expect Apple to want to put out something spectacular and new as reassurance after Steve Jobs' departure.
Apple's control on product release information is certainly impressive, but they must be aware that it also raises expectations and that Tuesday's event needs something pretty special to avoid major disappointment (even if that disappointment is unreasonable). It's conceivable that would be something other than the IP5 of course.
Is my reasoning skewed by wishful thinking perhaps?
It does look like just the 4s. And one model - well two if colour matters to you.
There are no real indications of iPhone 5 parts in the wild and the accessory makers are just guessing. I don't see them releasing a 4s and announcing a 5 for later as it will hamper the uptake of the 4s.
Prepare to be disappointed.
The lack of hardware updates from 2010-2011 will be why historians see as the major reason for Apples losing the phone market.
My predictions are Apple will release two phones. One a slightly revised 4G phone, and a significantly revamped 4GS Phone. My only disappointment will be I would like a slightly larger screen, and I think Apple will probably lose a few customers over the screen size if it doesn't deliver (but I don't expect it increase the size). People, however, act like releasing it as a world phone, with double the speed, and a significantly improved camera is somehow a let down. Like always there will be some software development that will only work on the newer models, probably the voice abilities, which usually use a lot of processing power and consequently not work on the 4G and below models. That was what happened with camera functionality when Apple released the iPhone 4, only it could take advantage of new camera functionality. I also understand why Apple wouldn't' significantly redesign the body. It is still the number one selling phone. Why change that significantly when it is unnecessary.
Apple waited for over a year most likely because of iOS 5 not being ready. People forget the same team works on both the Mac OS, and iOS. A while back, the Mac OS was delayed while the team finished up iOS. Now the reverse probably is true. Further, it also made sense to move the release date of iOS 5 to when Apple also updates the iPods.
If there is indeed an iphone 4S there is no way there will be an iPhone 5. If they were the same price everyone would buy the 5. If doubt they would upgrade the 4 to a 4S and offer it as a cheaper alternative to a 5. Apple uses old models as the cheaper phone. Apple will launch one model: the iPhone 4S. And we will all skip it and wait until 2012 and buy the iPhone 5LTE.
You are in the hole so stop digging. Asdad argued, and won, that iPhone 4S isn't going to cut it across the Pacific where contracts are negligible and Samsung's Galaxy Series won the spec battle. Stop backtracking and weaseling, say sorry already.
Not to mention HTC Sense shell has crack Apple's design formula with Nokia SeaRay on shelves in Shanghai, Hong Hong and Kuala Lumper this November. And I mean CASH AND CARRY, not pre-order.
(Demo units of N9 and Sea Ray were in Bangkok Mobile Expo this weekend. If this is going to be a farewell release, they are among the best)
And Asdad, call your broker to short AAPL yet? I could use cash next month.
By the way, if we discount USA market entirely for being too isolate to provide reliable data, how iPhone 4 fare across the Atlantic. On this side iPhone is being pummeled but the line hold, Samsung launches SS Waffen brigade of Galaxy dual-core and 1.5GHz Plus with 3D sets coming from LG(Optimus 3D) and HTC(Evo 3D), all for the price of used iPhone 4.(฿17000)
While BB opens the BlackBerry Store to keep up with branding.
It seems very similar to the whining heard when people are inflicted with postAppleproductintroductionitis.
Punctuated with about an hour of ecstasy/agony (simultaneously) in between.......
With so many of the rumors, leaked case designs, premature catalog entries etc., all apparently pointing to a new, thinner IP5 with a 4" screen, it seems hard to believe that they are all wrong. I can imagine case manufacturers speculating on a new form factor, but how would they know where to put the button cutouts?
Timing-wise, one might also expect Apple to want to put out something spectacular and new as reassurance after Steve Jobs' departure.
Apple's control on product release information is certainly impressive, but they must be aware that it also raises expectations and that Tuesday's event needs something pretty special to avoid major disappointment (even if that disappointment is unreasonable). It's conceivable that would be something other than the IP5 of course.
Is my reasoning skewed by wishful thinking perhaps?
All the wacky rumours are because of Apple's tight control post iPhone4-leak-fiasco and because iPhone4 is becoming iPhone4S and because of rampant speculation. iPhone5 will be interesting.
Even louder whining should it is indeed 4S and Apple stock drop below $340? So much hype was built up around iPhone 5, traders won't show mercy come Thursday morning.
I hope so. I'll be buying. Looking for something with long term value in an otherwise desolate financial landscape.
I am a current 3GS owner (2 1/2 years), and I have to respectfully disagree. I did not see anything in the iPhone 4 that caused me to upgrade, and if the new model is simply a revamped 4, I'll wait again. IOS5 will run on my 3GS, so unless the hardware is a significant upgrade, why would I spend my money? A faster processor and better camera are hardly reasons to spend hundreds of dollars, but a larger screen, resolution, and other enhancements might entice me. I guess we will find out in a few days which way we are headed!
My 3GS is laggy as hell with the latest iOS releases. With iOS 5 designed for the A5 processor, I can only imagine how poorly it will run on older, slower 3GS hardware.