Worker abuse petitions to be delivered Thursday at Apple's Grand Central store

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  • Reply 41 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kaeth View Post


    What exactly do you call the giant mass suicide threat a few months ago? Can you imagine a bunch of office workers negotiating with suicide?





    Since you cite it, that event was reportedly Foxconn workers who were making the XBox for Microsoft, oddly enough. Never really got much in the way of details about why them, why then, and what the demands were. Not Apple related, except by extension via Foxconn.



    Apple, like it or not, is now the big kahuna making the mobile and computer devices that people all over the world want to have. With the success comes all sorts of scrutiny. They are now the poster boy for all of the Chinese factory workers problems regardless of what they make and as such will have to learn to deal with it, and hopefully get out ahead of it. The disclosures and answering to half-baked accusation is a bad fit for their corporate culture but if they handle it right, they could do a lot of good for both the workers who are hard at work furiously trying to build enough, and for the corporate 'good citizen - exemplar' badge that Apple would like to wear.



    The really hard thing is that Apple is growing so fast that the pressure is constant for execs, managers, and on down to the supply chain and to the factory floor. Extremely trying conditions, the type that breed abuse, even when Apple is trying to prevent it. That said, I hope they are getting Foxconn to be generous with overtime pay ... even if no one else is over there.
  • Reply 42 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tallest skil View Post


    they planning on going to a best buy the day after and protesting dell, hp, samsung, toshiba, sony, nintendo, microsoft, and everyone else?



    And then wal-mart to protest companies whose toys are made in china?



    And then clothing stores after that to protest clothing brands sewn in china?



    And then the offices of nearly every other company in the country?



    No?



    Then shut up, hypocrites.



    +1(,000,000)
  • Reply 43 of 160
    kaethkaeth Posts: 11member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    ... or any number of other products made in China.



    china does not equal foxconn
  • Reply 44 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kaeth View Post


    china does not equal foxconn



    ????
  • Reply 45 of 160
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,360member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kaeth View Post


    Without getting into a ridiculously long discussion about the state of the chinese workforce and the laws that govern it...I think its generally accepted that the Foxconn factory has some pretty shady a$$ practices, at least by western standards, and western companies should be holding themselves to a higher standard.



    But China is not a western country. Wages are different, their standard of living is different, their culture is different etc.



    Who are we in the west to dictate how another country should operate? Isn't that what people complain about all of the time?
  • Reply 46 of 160
    kaethkaeth Posts: 11member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    ????



    maybe i misunderstood you, you responded to me and i thought you were saying that if you used ANY product from china you were supporting companies like foxconn.
  • Reply 47 of 160
    kaethkaeth Posts: 11member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    But China is not a western country. Wages are different, their standard of living is different, their culture is different etc.



    Who are we in the west to dictate how another country should operate? Isn't that what people complain about all of the time?



    Choosing to not endorse their labor practices by not participating in them is not dictating who they are or how they should operate.
  • Reply 48 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kaeth View Post


    maybe i misunderstood you, you responded to me and i thought you were saying that if you used ANY product from china you were supporting companies like foxconn.



    No... if you are protesting at Apple and still buying anything at Walmart or any number of other goods made in China then you are a hypocrite.
  • Reply 49 of 160
    kaethkaeth Posts: 11member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    No... if you are protesting at Apple and still buying anything at Walmart or any number of other goods made in China then you are a hypocrite.



    agreed
  • Reply 50 of 160
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,989member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kaeth View Post


    ...wow. clearly we have different opinions about the value of human life.



    I guess you could also apply that statement to the workers at the X-Box factory who were using the threat of suicide as a negotiating tool.



    What value were they placing on human life?
  • Reply 51 of 160
    wovelwovel Posts: 956member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    I don't think that's necessarily true. If there was some real abuse going on, that could be factually documented, like slave labor or using 9 year old kids to assemble products, then most people would say that is not cool.



    However, there is nothing like that going on and everything is just fine and dandy. They're going to have to do better than whining about a 60 hour work week and a suicide rate that is less than the general population.



    In fact these are some of the highest paid workers in China. Probably why the suicide rate among foxconn workers is significantly lower than the national average in China (or the US for that matter). Lets not let facts cloud up a good protest though.
  • Reply 52 of 160
    The kind of hateful responses being posted here are just sad and pathetic, and only give Apple "enthusiasts" a bad name. I suppose this is the kind of crowd AppleInsider has become well known for.



    There's nothing hypocritical about using a company's products, and wanting that company to do (even) better.



    As an owner of numerous Apple products, I am proud to say that I signed the petition, to put pressure on Apple to do what it can to better the working conditions of workers around the world. It may help, it may not, but it seems like there's nothing to lose and everything to gain.
  • Reply 53 of 160
    Why is the "AppleInsider Staff" wasting its time reporting on what nobodys (like Mark Shields) are doing? Is AppleInsider becoming a tabloid?" Damn, I hope this isn't a preview of the future of 'Insider.
  • Reply 54 of 160
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wovel View Post


    In fact these are some of the highest paid workers in China. Probably why the suicide rate among foxconn workers is significantly lower than the national average in China (or the US for that matter). Lets not let facts cloud up a good protest though.



    The first guest on Real Time with Bill Maher last week talked about Apple and Foxconn. He may have been the guy who did the video of the factory, but I'm not sure.



    He mentioned the suicides but failed to compare them to the national average or an average among factory workers in China. He also failed to note the mass suicide threat was at the Xbox plant, not with Apple's products.



    Apple will get more of this if they do nothing and likely even more if they do something. Either way they are screwed here; it's the cost of having the most mindshare. Not a bad place to be overall but they will have to address this as sensationalist remora look to feed off Apple.
  • Reply 55 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iru69 View Post


    There's nothing hypocritical about using a company's products, and wanting that company to do (even) better.



    You'll notice that's not the argument here. You read the responses, right?
  • Reply 56 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iru69 View Post


    The kind of hateful responses being posted here are just sad and pathetic, and only give Apple "enthusiasts" a bad name. I suppose this is the kind of crowd AppleInsider has become well known for.



    There's nothing hypocritical about using a company's products, and wanting that company to do (even) better.



    As an owner of numerous Apple products, I am proud to say that I signed the petition, to put pressure on Apple to do what it can to better the working conditions of workers around the world. It may help, it may not, but it seems like there's nothing to lose and everything to gain.



    Oh, cool... moral indignation.
  • Reply 57 of 160
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,360member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iru69 View Post


    As an owner of numerous Apple products, I am proud to say that I signed the petition



    I bet that the people who signed that petition consists of a few misguided Apple users such as yourself, combined with the majority, which happens to be a ton of Fandroids and Apple haters who no doubt will sign anything as long as it's something that is anti-Apple.



    And yes, if the conditions are as terrible and as abusive that the whiny and speculative petition claims, then you are directly causing suffering and pain every time you purchase an Apple product. That is hypocrisy.



    The next time you buy a new iPhone, at least 3 Chinese workers will be directly suffering because of your inhumane choice.
  • Reply 58 of 160
    kaethkaeth Posts: 11member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    You'll notice that's not the argument here. You read the responses, right?



    actually, that has actually been a significant topic of conversation
  • Reply 59 of 160
    I'm nauseous and frankly puzzled by the vitriol and hyper-defensiveness being displayed here. Talking about how protesters should get a job or how one is going to physically attack them if they restrict "your freedom of movement" is completely absurd and makes the person sound like a fanatic.



    Also, no they are not hypocrites. The only thing they state is that they're concerned about the level of proactive regulation and inspection Apple is conducting or is allowing to be conducted as regards their foreign manufacturing. Apple is incredibly admired and while the labor conditions problem is not exclusive to the company, they are in a *unique* position to advocate and lead the charge on it as they have in so many other realms. Whether they choose to do this, or agree with the assertions being made, is their own decision and is another matter. However, I can't understand the invective against the act of protest, which is certainly anyone's right, however misguided you may believe it is.



    I think I'm going to stop visiting AppleInsider for news as the forums are atrocious and the most important headlines are related by other outlets anyway. AppleInsider, if I were you, I'd consider setting up some trolling policy or other.
  • Reply 60 of 160
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,103member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by schmrtzzz View Post


    This discussion is embarrasing. Even if Apple is doing not so bad, it always can do better. And as one of the world's biggest companies (in shareholders value) it should. Especially with all that money in the bank. And everyone loving Apple should be supporting initiatives like this.



    This isn't an 'initiative'. It's attention whoring. You think Apple will look at a petition like this and think OH GEE WE NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT THIS CHINA THING MAYBE WE SHOULD LOOK INTO IT. I wonder is this guy actually took the time to read Apple's audit reports? Isn't that 'Apple doing something about it'? Or the fact that wages have increased steadily and substantially since Apple has been involved in the area? Or that they're higher in Foxconn than pretty much any other manufacturing plant?



    I'm still waiting on ONE documented incident of 'worker abuse' as this petition states (Foxconn has like a million workers, shouldn't be tough to find one). And I don't consider 'abuse' to be defined as working hours in line with the rest of the industry in that country.



    I'm all for 'doing something'. What I'm not all for is taking knee-jerk, ignorant actions that have no basis in facts, context, or knowledge about the situation. This makes things worse, as it misrepresents the realities, promotes ignorance, and gives no new insight or tools for improvement. I can't of another situation where the one company who has done THE MOST to try and improve a situation, out of dozens of others, is solely attacked. Does this not promote ignorance? There are things you can protest if you're concerned about Chinese working conditions (Chinese gvt, etc) but Apple is not one of those things.
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