Worker abuse petitions to be delivered Thursday at Apple's Grand Central store

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 160
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    Yawn. Apple sold 37M phones last quarter and they can barely muster 200K to sign some feel good petition? Big whoop.
  • Reply 62 of 160
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    I suspect CNN and NY Slimes will be all over this. Maybe breaking news on MSNBC. Which is all this guy wants - attention.
  • Reply 63 of 160
    realisticrealistic Posts: 1,126member
    What a bunch of idiots. Demonstrating at locations of the one company that has, is trying and has committed to making things better for the workers who assemble Apple' products.
  • Reply 64 of 160
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,360member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wws View Post


    I'm nauseous and frankly puzzled by the vitriol and hyper-defensiveness being displayed here. Talking about how protesters should get a job or how one is going to physically attack them if they restrict "your freedom of movement" is completely absurd and makes the person sound like a fanatic.



    Also, no they are not hypocrites. The only thing they state is that they're concerned about the level of proactive regulation and inspection Apple is conducting or is allowing to be conducted as regards their foreign manufacturing. Apple is incredibly admired and while the labor conditions problem is not exclusive to the company, they are in a *unique* position to advocate and lead the charge on it as they have in so many other realms. Whether they choose to do this, or agree with the assertions being made, is their own decision and is another matter. However, I can't understand the invective against the act of protest, which is certainly anyone's right, however misguided you may believe it is.



    I think I'm going to stop visiting AppleInsider for news as the forums are atrocious and the most important headlines are related by other outlets anyway. AppleInsider, if I were you, I'd consider setting up some trolling policy or other.



    So you support the protesters, but you have a problem with people protesting the protesters?



    I see.
  • Reply 65 of 160
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,595member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iru69 View Post


    The kind of hateful responses being posted here are just sad and pathetic, and only give Apple "enthusiasts" a bad name. I suppose this is the kind of crowd AppleInsider has become well known for.



    There's nothing hypocritical about using a company's products, and wanting that company to do (even) better.



    As an owner of numerous Apple products, I am proud to say that I signed the petition, to put pressure on Apple to do what it can to better the working conditions of workers around the world. It may help, it may not, but it seems like there's nothing to lose and everything to gain.



    I agree with you that it is not hypocritical to use Apple products but also to hold Apple to high(er) standards of ethical and moral behaviour. However, I firmly believe that Apple management and especially Tim Cook, probably expect higher standards of their suppliers and manufacturers in China than even the Chinese government, which should be at the forefront of protecting its citizen's interests. Any of the workers in these factories who are considered migrant workers in their own country, typically it seems, enjoy less rights and privileges than long-term local residents. Western governments and society would find this unacceptable. The Chinese government should be intervening to protect these worker's rights and conditions.



    I'd be more suspicious of this petition if its originator professed to never having used, or was antagonistic to, Apple products. He might be misguided (or not) but not on the face of it, hypocritical.



    All the best.
  • Reply 66 of 160
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,107member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    The first guest on Real Time with Bill Maher last week talked about Apple and Foxconn. He may have been the guy who did the video of the factory, but I'm not sure.



    He mentioned the suicides but failed to compare them to the national average or an average among factory workers in China. He also failed to note the mass suicide threat was at the Xbox plant, not with Apple's products.



    Apple will get more of this if they do nothing and likely even more if they do something. Either way they are screwed here; it's the cost of having the most mindshare. Not a bad place to be overall but they will have to address this as sensationalist remora look to feed off Apple.



    The guy was Mike Daisy, and he was simply whoring himself out and exploiting his 15 min of fame, that's all. The segment was painful to watch, especially the fact that it seems a grown man just made a shocking discovery that shit is actually made it China- and it turned his whole world upside down. There's nothing that he stated that is enlightening, or that can make one come to the conclusion that Apple deserves the be condemned and singled out. Again, he's gonna run around and try to exploit the attention he's gotten.
  • Reply 67 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ort View Post


    Apple needs to be sent a message.



    If they continue to manufacture their wares in China, the next thing you know, EVERY electronics manufacturer will follow and EVERYTHING we buy will be made in China.



    I can't imagine living in a world like that.



    Heh, heh.
  • Reply 68 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    That guy Mark Shields sounds like a huge pussy and not to mention a hypocrite!



    You're supposed to think different. I want to continue to use and love the products you make, because they're changing the world, and have already changed my life. But I also want to know that when I buy products from you, it's not at the cost of horrible human suffering.



    Yo, fuck that guy and his hypocritical douchebaggish, whining.



    Apple already responded to the criticisms coming from asshats and Apple said "What we will not do - and never have done - is stand still or turn a blind eye to problems in our supply chain".



    If anybody has a problem with Apple, then don't buy their products! Don't dictate your liberal fascist demands to Apple as if they give a shit about what you and your pussy friends think!



    And don't be blocking and protesting in front of any Apple stores that I will be visiting. If I happen to be near any Apple store (I'm not that far away from Grand Central) and there are some douchebags trying to disrupt access or trying to interfere with my business and restrict my freedom of movement, then I will not hesitate to use physical force to put these protest nazis in their place.



    While I also think that these protesters are misguided and ignorant, your post is really scary. You don't seem to be able to make up your mind whether they're liberals or fascists or nazis (concepts that are mutually exclusive). And your propensity to insult and threaten physical force against people who have different viewpoints to your own seems to indicate that maybe you are the Nazi?
  • Reply 69 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wws View Post


    I'm nauseous and frankly puzzled by the vitriol and hyper-defensiveness being displayed here. Talking about how protesters should get a job or how one is going to physically attack them if they restrict "your freedom of movement" is completely absurd and makes the person sound like a fanatic.



    Also, no they are not hypocrites. The only thing they state is that they're concerned about the level of proactive regulation and inspection Apple is conducting or is allowing to be conducted as regards their foreign manufacturing. Apple is incredibly admired and while the labor conditions problem is not exclusive to the company, they are in a *unique* position to advocate and lead the charge on it as they have in so many other realms. Whether they choose to do this, or agree with the assertions being made, is their own decision and is another matter. However, I can't understand the invective against the act of protest, which is certainly anyone's right, however misguided you may believe it is.



    I think I'm going to stop visiting AppleInsider for news as the forums are atrocious and the most important headlines are related by other outlets anyway. AppleInsider, if I were you, I'd consider setting up some trolling policy or other.



    Apple is in business to make a profit. The end.
  • Reply 70 of 160
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,989member
    Meanwhile Nokia is quietly sacking another 4,000 European workers and moving the jobs to Asia, that's on top of the 7,000 they sacked last year.



    Too bad they closed their American stores (and presumably sacked those workers too) or there would be somewhere to protest outside,



    while



    wearing



    Chinese



    made



    clothes.



    Mr protestor,



    are



    the



    buttons



    on



    your



    shirt



    made



    of



    recycled



    plastic



    sourced



    from



    the



    Mumbai



    rubbish



    dumps



    and



    gathered



    by



    five



    year



    olds?
  • Reply 71 of 160
    gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    If anybody has a problem with Apple, then don't buy their products! Don't dictate your liberal fascist demands to Apple as if they give a shit about what you and your pussy friends think!.



    I was with you until you went off the rails with your political nonsense.

    Where do 'liberal fascists' exist outside of Glenn Beck psycho-land?



    BTW, classy language.
  • Reply 72 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    Meanwhile Nokia is quietly sacking another 4,000 European workers and moving the jobs to Asia, that's on top of the 7,000 they sacked last year.



    Too bad they closed their American stores (and presumably sacked those workers too) or there would be somewhere to protest outside,



    while



    wearing



    Chinese



    made



    clothes,



    Well played, sir. These protestors are in it for their own reasons. They give not a whit about Chinese workers.
  • Reply 73 of 160
    gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Do any of these people have a single recommendation as to how one American company can force changes within the world's largest totalitarian country?



    "Hey Foxconn... here's 10 billion dollars, and we insist that you pass it on to your workers."

    Followed by a big uptick in the Chinese executive yacht industry.



    If Apple pulled up stakes (even if it were possible) it would barely make a dent in Foxconn's bottom line.

    But if everyone did, then care to go back and tell the now starving, unemployed Chinese workers how you made their lives better?
  • Reply 74 of 160
    kaethkaeth Posts: 11member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    Well played, sir. These protestors are in it for their own reasons. They give not a whit about Chinese workers.



    What? That doesn't make sense. Apple elitists who have the money to pour into a new iphone every 18 months are not the people who would otherwise be making minimum wage in an apple processing factory...
  • Reply 75 of 160
    nagrommenagromme Posts: 2,834member
    A worthy cause. I only hope this action spurs improvement from all the companies (i.e., every other electronics company) that are worse than Apple and take these matters less seriously than Apple does!
  • Reply 76 of 160
    gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kaeth View Post


    Choosing to not endorse their labor practices by not participating in them is not dictating who they are or how they should operate.



    So Apple unilaterally pull out, HP et al stay in, and Apple goes out of business.

    No one has been helped, and way more hurt.



    Brilliant.
  • Reply 77 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    No... if you are protesting at Apple and still buying anything at Walmart or any number of other goods made in China then you are a hypocrite.



    Yes. Just as protesting slavery while eating/wearing products produced by slaves would be hypocritical. Clearly the answer is that slavery NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN PROTESTED, since it would have meant starvation, right genius?



    To give Apple a "pass" on human rights violations because everyone that is offended by it (read: people possessed of the slightest decency) don't immediately cast off all products produced within the paradigm of capitalism and live wild and free like the wolves is ridiculous.



    If you want to bury your head in the sand and argue that children in China don't deserve our concern on the grounds that they are chinese, fine.



    There are A LOT of people who don't view the world through the nationalistic, ethnocentric, and xenophobic filters that color your meagre moral canvas.



    Passing an imaginary national border, to those of us not steeped in the ideologies of a half-witted tribalist dogma, is not at all tantamount to entering into a realm of psuedo-existence where ethical judgments are put on standby until the goods are safely transported back to "reality." As far as I am concerned Alabama and Hong Kong are equally incomprehensible, but the fact that I can't place myself in those contexts doesn't by any means make me eager to apply toto caelo opposed ethical standards to the existence of "Unknown Humans X" and "Unknown Humans Y."



    This thread is, by and large, an exhibition of the perverse and pathetic lowliness of the standard 150-200 lbs sack of American refuse. Still, despite your profound unloveliness, I would still contend that you should be given a chance to express your existence with dignity and freedom; whether you choose to do so is another matter.
  • Reply 78 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    Oh, cool... moral indignation.



    Thanks for making me chuckle.



    Let's ask these people if they want to sign the petition?



    http://news.yahoo.com/many-chinese-w...190754170.html
  • Reply 79 of 160
    irnchrizirnchriz Posts: 1,580member
    <<removed>>
  • Reply 80 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    If somebody buys and uses Apple products, yet whines like a big pussy about Apple and even goes so far as to protest against Apple, then that is the definition of a hypocrite.



    I am a bit torn on this because as is often pointed out... Apple is being unfairly singled out even though all their peers are just as guilty. It's not like I can say "I don't want to support a company that lets such abuses occur in the manufacture of their products." and then go buy something else. The only non-hypocritical choice would be to not buy any electronics, textiles, or plastic product ever again. Obviously that is not very practical.



    On the other hand... I understand why some of Apple's customers might come to expect more from Apple as opposed to Dell or HP. We like to think that Apple is a better company in all regards. Boycotting all Chinese made products is not practical, but perhaps these people are taking the next best course of action and applying public relations pressure on Apple.
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