Worker abuse petitions to be delivered Thursday at Apple's Grand Central store

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  • Reply 101 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by schmrtzzz View Post


    This discussion is embarrasing. Even if Apple is doing not so bad, it always can do better. And as one of the world's biggest companies (in shareholders value) it should. Especially with all that money in the bank. And everyone loving Apple should be supporting initiatives like this.



    It?s all about CONTEXT: The Apple Boycott Graphically Explained ? http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworst...ally-explained
  • Reply 102 of 160
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,107member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by schmrtzzz View Post


    Well, actually, I think they will. I signed the petition for 'green apple' a few years ago, and wow, did they listen. I like my Apple products but I'll like them even better if the company takes the lead in fair laborconditions. Question: what does it harm you to sign it?



    Wow, it's a good thing you signed that petition then. You and the others who signed it are definitely the reason Apple's products are 'green' (whatever that even means'



    God you're naive.



    And I'd sign a 'make Apple products even more green' petition anyday-cause why not? What I won't sign is a petition that contains language that I don't agree with, that promotes ignorance more than facts, and that doesn't have a stated goalpost. The wording contains so much misinformation, hyperbole, and falsities which should be obvious to anyone that has a clue about Apple and China. That single sentence from shields contains like 5 pieces of disingenuous information:



    Quote:

    "At Foxconn, one of Apple’s biggest manufacturers, there is a history of suicides, abusive working conditions, and almost no pay. These working conditions are appalling, especially for Apple."



    - history of suicides? Like everywhere else on earth? As in lower than the China average? There is nothing notable about the suicide rate at Foxconn. Its not higher than anywhere else, and LOWER than comparable places, and even the US as a whole. Strawman.

    - Abusive working conditions? What does that mean exactly? Less hours than similar manufacturing plants, and higher wages? Cause those are facts.

    -Almost no pay: Just bullshit, as Foxconn has higher pay than almost anyone in that industry in China.



    So yes, it would harm me to sign it, as I'd be signing and agreeing with what amounts to a big lie in my eyes, which to me looks like nothing except self promotion by jumping on a bandwagon. You know what I would sign? A petition urging more companies to meet Apple's standards.
  • Reply 103 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    1) The harm for me is personal. It violates my principles to sign this petition.



    2) Post hoc, ergo propter hoc on thinking you signing a petition a few years ago led Apple's continued (not start of) green initiative.



    The "Green Movement" began as a grassroots movement and became a marketing slogan only later. Whatever "benefits" have been derived from it could easily be ascribed to the grass roots origins, at least partly, and at the very least it would be reasonable to assume that a widespread trend toward "environmentally friendly practices" (viewed from any metric by which you'd judge the diaspora thereof) has not been a product of corporate overzealousness in the realm of altruism, but rather a response to pressures from without. Those pressures should not be confused with the "vote with your wallet" bit, which is summoned only in the presence of the most inveterate naiveté. Perhaps a forward looking company might see the tides of a social re-inscription, as it were, contextualizing certain behaviors in an ominous light, but this is still unrelated to the silliness mentioned above.
  • Reply 104 of 160
    I wonder how many Ferrari workers own one.
  • Reply 105 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rkevwill View Post


    I wonder how many Ferrari workers own one.



    I would imagine engineers at Ferrari are well compensated, and they probably work reasonable hours with ample benefits.



    To answer the question, probably quite a few.
  • Reply 106 of 160
    paul94544paul94544 Posts: 1,027member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post


    So why aren't people complaing about the other companies?



    because it's orchestrated by Samsung? nah NOT



    I'm surrounded by idiots. Of course the people gathering the signatures ask a stupid PC questions like "Do you think apple should be held responsible for...." and like sheep they sign when if fact they know norhing about what they are signing and they want to look good.



    The world is full of do gooders poking their noses in to things they know nothing about. because it makes them feel good , following causes and bolstering their little ego's. Makes em feel like they have power when they don't.



    Like most things it has a momentum for a short time and fades into nothing after a while and then they move on to the next hysteria. Nothing new here.
  • Reply 107 of 160
    Targeting Apple is such BULLS**T! What about Samsung or other Asian companies that dump their products on our market? How many jobs have these companies created in the U.S.? Fact: Apple employes nearly 50,000 in this country alone. Their Applications Stores have created nearly 500,000 jobs in this country as well.



    The tide has changed - the manufacturing jobs in China are NOT coming back. At least Apple is working on the problem of working conditions over there, but is anyone else (and by anyone else, I mean literally EVERYONE producing goods from clothing to electronics)?



    Why is it fashions that cost about $15.00 in materials and labor from over there, sell for $50-$100. over here and no one seems to give a damn about that, at least not anymore.



    Of course it's always more effective for crap journalists to pick on the most successful company to make their point regardless of whether or not their point holds water.



    So buy all means, continue to bitch while your buying your 100% designed and manufactured items from China and Korea.
  • Reply 108 of 160
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,360member
    History of suicides?



    Do these ignorant dipshits know that around a million people work for Foxconn?



    Statistically speaking, just this week a few of them probably got pregnant, four people had heart attacks, 7% cheated on their wives, and yeah, maybe somebody offs themselves every once in a while . That's fucking life.
  • Reply 109 of 160
    BRAVO! That's what I call hitting the nail on the head! Shields is a completely uninformed bonehead!
  • Reply 110 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DeanSolecki View Post


    Yes. Just as protesting slavery while eating/wearing products produced by slaves would be hypocritical. Clearly the answer is that slavery NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN PROTESTED, since it would have meant starvation, right genius?



    To give Apple a "pass" on human rights violations because everyone that is offended by it (read: people possessed of the slightest decency) don't immediately cast off all products produced within the paradigm of capitalism and live wild and free like the wolves is ridiculous.



    If you want to bury your head in the sand and argue that children in China don't deserve our concern on the grounds that they are chinese, fine.



    There are A LOT of people who don't view the world through the nationalistic, ethnocentric, and xenophobic filters that color your meagre moral canvas.



    Passing an imaginary national border, to those of us not steeped in the ideologies of a half-witted tribalist dogma, is not at all tantamount to entering into a realm of psuedo-existence where ethical judgments are put on standby until the goods are safely transported back to "reality." As far as I am concerned Alabama and Hong Kong are equally incomprehensible, but the fact that I can't place myself in those contexts doesn't by any means make me eager to apply toto caelo opposed ethical standards to the existence of "Unknown Humans X" and "Unknown Humans Y."



    This thread is, by and large, an exhibition of the perverse and pathetic lowliness of the standard 150-200 lbs sack of American refuse. Still, despite your profound unloveliness, I would still contend that you should be given a chance to express your existence with dignity and freedom; whether you choose to do so is another matter.



    Fuck off, Dean and go sign the petition.
  • Reply 111 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    Fuck off, Dean and go sign the petition.



    Charming.
  • Reply 112 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DeanSolecki View Post


    Charming.



    Thank you.
  • Reply 113 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    Thank you.



    You're quite welcome.
  • Reply 114 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DeanSolecki View Post


    You're quite welcome.



    See, Mods, we're all pals here.
  • Reply 115 of 160
    sennensennen Posts: 1,465member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kaeth View Post


    I would genuinely like to know why the vibe here seems to be that because other people do it, its acceptable? I assume your response is going to be something like...because no one is complaining about the other companies, but thats just faulty reasoning. Two wrongs, or 100 wrongs, don't make a right...



    I'm still not sure why you are taking Apple to task for problems in Microsoft's factory.



    Apple has already come out on the record to say that they are endeavoring to improve conditions for workers in their factories, and despite the negative press that they get from the chinese labour union, said union also admits Apple is doing alot more for workers rights than any other tech manufacturer.



    Perhaps the chinese people should petition their government for laws to better protect/compensate workers. Perhaps they should also petition the owners of the local and Taiwanese manufacturing companies for the same. Chinese company executives (and government officials) are more to blame for workers being taken advantage of than foreign corporations, and are profiting handsomely for doing so.



    Edit: I should add, I have no problem with people being concerned with the working conditions under which the products they purchase are made. I don't see why a consumer of Apple products (or Nike, or Nintendo etc etc) can't concern themselves with these issues - it doesn't have to be a binary proposition. However, I do take issue with one company being singled out, especially when said company is actually doing more than any other in it's industry. And one should also consider other factors, not just look at it as a simplistic case of western exploitation of a weaker third world nation - it's not the "Eight Foreign Powers" sacking the Summer Palace - China will never let that happen again.
  • Reply 116 of 160
    sennensennen Posts: 1,465member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    It has one of the best reputations in China - which is the standard they are measured by. You can't measure them by western standards...



    Coincidentally China's argument about human rights abuses within the PRC is exactly this.
  • Reply 117 of 160
    chris_cachris_ca Posts: 2,543member
    and to help spread the word, all these protesters will use their iPhones to send emails to all their friends using iPhones (and other phones made by FoxConn in China).



    That'll teach 'em...
  • Reply 118 of 160
    These posts are ridiculous. I can't believe people are saying "well everyone does it so lets just ignore the problem". Apple is sitting on a pile of cash. Stock prices are affected mostly by revenue and growth. There is no reason they can't give all their overseas workers a raise. It would significantly improve their lives and cost Apple almost nothing. This protest is simply saying Apple can do better and it should think different and show other companies how to do things. It's easy to sit in your home, with air conditioning, food in the fridge, TV and internet on demand and ignore the fact that most people don't have these luxuries. You have absolutely no idea what it's like to be these people. Your careless attitudes are embarrassing.
  • Reply 119 of 160
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,660member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


    You already are. Including your clothes etc



    Please adjust your sarcasm meter. Thank you.
  • Reply 120 of 160
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post


    These posts are ridiculous. I can't believe people are saying "well everyone does it so lets just ignore the problem". Apple is sitting on a pile of cash. Stock prices are affected mostly by revenue and growth. There is no reason they can't give all their overseas workers a raise. It would significantly improve their lives and cost Apple almost nothing. This protest is simply saying Apple can do better and it should think different and show other companies how to do things. It's easy to sit in your home, with air conditioning, food in the fridge, TV and internet on demand and ignore the fact that most people don't have these luxuries. You have absolutely no idea what it's like to be these people. Your careless attitudes are embarrassing.



    That's been done before and yet Apple is singling out for allowing this child and forced labor camp.
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