This has nothing to do with that. In this case we are talking about a functionality that we know many other devices (including standalone) with much less specs run well. In this case, it doesn't pass muster and people should hold Apple accountable to that standard.
Of course stand alone devices can do a particular task well with "much less specs" as they are dedicated devices to doing that task. I have routers that can do a lot more at their dedicated task than anyone can make a PC do when it comes to routing data and yet they do this with an amount of RAM and Flash that is far lower than what you find in even a smartphone.
And I've said this before, maybe to you, that THE NETWORK CAN'T HANDLE that much Siri traffic NOW, and if all you 4 owners are let in, YOU won't even be able to use the service AT ALL, and nor will WE who have shelled out for the new hardware! Deal with it! Stop whining!
Is that the reason Apple gave for iPhone4 users not having access to Siri, or is it just the educated guess of a 3rd party? Just curious.
I'm not sure who you're replying to as you didn't quote anyone in your post but I do wonder how one assumes the inclusion of a feature should be based on a single performance metric like the CPU. Why shouldn't the hit to overall performance instead of just being technically possible be an issue? Why shouldn't the drain on battery life because it has no dedicated HW for specific tasks be an issue? Why is there no consideration that Apple, knowing it was entering this market a couple years prior, also has secretly updated to their A chips to have specific acceleration specifically for their mapping? Finally, why assume that all mapping software is created equally?
My intended recipient has been quoted.
I didn't mention the CPU - nor did I claim to be basing it on any particular metric. However, it's pretty obvious given the examples since that any of the current Apple phones could easily run a version of turn by turn.
As for battery - how many people take a long turn by turn journey and don't have their phone plugged in to charge? Not too many.
All software is created equal? You mean a seven year old Nokia can run turn by turn on Ovi Maps but the iPhone 4S cannot? It can play Infinity Blade but it can't render a map while you drive along? It's a grab, stop trying to justify it.
I liked the look of the maps in the keynote. They look more hand-drawn than Google's, and I like that. Haven't installed the beta on my iPad yet though, so not completely sure.
This just seems like more Apple crap designed to force users to upgrade, They remove Google Maps and replace it with their own partially functional replacement. What a load of crap. Evidence by Siri working on jailbroken iPhone 4.
Apple's products may be lightyears ahead of where they were 15 years ago, but their customer service/treatment is lightyears behind. And this is from someone who has been using Apple products for over 27 years.
C'mon, you want to upgrade anyway, right? If you don't absolutely need the turn by turn you don't have to up-grade, and if you do you probably already have the TomTom or Navigon apps which are both fine apps and work well.
You think Apple's customer service and treatment is lightyears behind the competition? I beg to differ and take the fact that you have been an Apple customer for 27 years as a sign that you are just getting old and turning into a bit of a curmudgeon.
The turn by turn navigation features in iOS 6 are exaggerated- it's really not that good. The google-powered maps app in iOS 5 has traffic (which actually works in Europe unlike iOS 6), routing, directions, alternate routes - all iOS 6 maps does is have the turn directions in a road sign box at the top and adds voice guidance.
Yep, you definitely read the descriptions on Apple's web site and didn't just look at pictures </sarcasm> The new Maps does all of these things. Crowd-sourced traffic (much like Waze, but built in, so it will be much more useful), gives you multiple routes to choose from, gives you turn by turn directions, reroutes if you miss a turn. Please actually use the service for an extended period of time before you blindly criticize something.
In all seriousness, how is this not some type of fragmentation and cause customer confusion?
Siri works here, turn by turn works there but not here...come on. Apple is slowly moving away from that unified coherent experience that separates them from the rest. Crap phones from the 3 years ago with half the specs can handle turn by turn, so the guise of technical limitations seems ridiculous. This doesn't change my opinion of Apple and I'm sure they expect everyone with a 4 to move the new iPhone starting in the fall so it's not a huge issue, but it's still a low move.
I totally agree with you about the fragmentation and this is going to be very confusing for the average user.
If Apple maintains these types of confusing fragmented updates, I could see customer satisfaction ratings heading south for Apple.
Is that the reason Apple gave for iPhone4 users not having access to Siri, or is it just the educated guess of a 3rd party? Just curious.
I don't believe Apple gave any answer. The educated guess is from seeing Siri come to a crawl the first weekend of Siri's release with just iPhone 4Ses on the loose. There is also word of special chips that have only been added to more recent devices.
Apple is the mot consistent tech company when it comes to products and yet they get blasted for the stupidest reasons. Just like these GPS complaints people complained about iOS not having cut/copy/paste in 2007 and actually used the argument that smartphones have had it for years so Apple must be artificially holding it back with absolutely not conception of how it might actually require a different implemention.
You can buy the same non-Apple smartphone across a country border that has wildly different specs and yet I see no complaining about that.
Bottom line: if people don't like the the positional goods Apple creates by not updating their products with perfect equality through all previous products then stop using their products or get over it because technology and business simply will never work the way some people want it to.
Remember when Apple introduced a version of iOS to an older iPhone that made it ver slow for a great many number of users? Remember when people said reason Apple added the update was because they were adding features it couldn't feasibly run so users would be forced to upgrade?
But if Apple doesn't offer a feature to any older device with older HW they are doing it for the same reason of "forcing users to upgrade"? Does that really make sense to suggest that the only way Apple doesn't force people to upgrade is if they never update their HW, SW, or services? I certainly don't think so. But if Apple doesn't update all their stuff at break neck speeds then we hear complaints about how Apple doesn't care about this type of product or this type of user anymore.
I don't think there is anything Apple can do to satisfy the infinitely unsatisfiable.
I think the sentence needs to be adjusted to : "Apple added x feature(s) which forces people to upgrade if they can no longer live without this feature which they have been living without up until now".
A lot of people take delight in pointing out the negative regardless of circumstance.
I think all forum users should be advised to enable two types of filters - the troll filter which makes you automatically skip to the next post, and the curmudgeon filter, which brings up a flag whenever you read posts clearly written without much thought, with too much venom, and too quickly after the 'news' has broken. Generally its the 'venom' part of the filter that is the most significant. It shows personal anguish and an existential need to vent, which is not a good sign. (oh and these are internal filters, built into each one of us. They just need to be enabled)
Is that the reason Apple gave for iPhone4 users not having access to Siri, or is it just the educated guess of a 3rd party? Just curious.
Thank you for asking. I haven't seen anything from anyone, except for maybe one or two posters here, about Apple's capacity to handle real-time data loads from Siri. I'm using this ancient technique called "logic," which is in short supply in today's overwrought minds, who can only think about what THEY want.
It goes like this.
1. All Siri requests are processed centrally by Apple, even those that ask her to dial a number out of your own contact list. At least that's my understanding, correct me if i'm wrong.
2. From the beginning, Siri has been overloaded at certain times, like Friday nights, or on Oscar weekend here in LA. "I'm really sorry about this, but I can't take any requests right now. Please try again in a little why-uhl."
3. Therefore I draw the radical conclusion that Apple's network and processing capacity is limited at this early stage—they just opened the new data center, they're simultaneously rolling out iCloud, and they're selling new phones with Siri at unprecedented rates.
So you (not you but certain others) want them to further bog down Siri by opening her up to the iPhone 4 crowd as well? Then NOBODY WOULD BE HAPPY. That's not what Apple wants.
The same goes for turn-by-turn. IT'S THE NETWORK, people! They are not trying to force you to upgrade, or deprecating your older hardware. They are scrambling to get their data load covered—obviously!
Edit: SoliX reminds us of the first Siri weekend, when hardly anybody had a good time with her. I missed that party. Anyway, I bet turn-by-turn is going to be unusable at certain times for a while, after it rolls out.
This just seems like more Apple crap designed to force users to upgrade, They remove Google Maps and replace it with their own partially functional replacement. What a load of crap. Evidence by Siri working on jailbroken iPhone 4.
Apple's products may be lightyears ahead of where they were 15 years ago, but their customer service/treatment is lightyears behind. And this is from someone who has been using Apple products for over 27 years.
Yeah, because you want people to just buy your products once and never upgrade.
I want a forth bedroom in my 3 bedroom house. Sure, my house has all the rooms that I payed for, but I'm gonna complain anyway. I mean, my neighbors house has four rooms, so I should just automatically get that too for free, right?
Exactly. And while everyone wants to dump on the 3GS, it is in many graphics-intensive cases faster than the iPhone 4. The iPhone 4 is essentially a 3GS with a mild overclock and 4 times as many pixels to push. The iPhone 4 and iPhone 3GS (and the iPad 1) have single core CPUs, the same GPU, and 256MB memory. In the 3GS's favor, is that all that memory isn't tied-up with 4x (5x for iPad 1) images. Even with the differences in CPU, I'm sure they all have enough horsepower to do turn by turn directions. However, the 3GS is the only one that isn't in a severe hurt for memory pretty much all the time. In the end, if there was actually a technical limitation that prompted Apple to limit availability of turn by turn, it'd probably be the memory overhead of having that code in memory at all times. As for flyover, it runs like a dog on my iPad 2... I wouldn't want to think about it on an earlier device.
This post is chock-full of errors. You totally botched all your iphone 4 specs which pretty much negated your entire point.
That said, I agree that performance has something to do with why it hasn't been released on older devices.
C'mon, you want to upgrade anyway, right? If you don't absolutely need the turn by turn you don't have to up-grade, and if you do you probably already have the TomTom or Navigon apps which are both fine apps and work well.
You think Apple's customer service and treatment is lightyears behind the competition? I beg to differ and take the fact that you have been an Apple customer for 27 years as a sign that you are just getting old and turning into a bit of a curmudgeon.
I will upgrade when the new one comes out. I don't need it, but taking out a fully functional component for a not fully functional one is pretty poor.
As for their customer service, yes it has declined precipitously. Yes, they have the genius bar and lost of face to face support. However, Apple's current MO is to deny issues exist and make you pay for replacements even when thousands of people experience the same issue. There are common problems that occur on their devices that instead of admitting there are issues, they just screw over the customers. I'm not even talking about the antenna issue.
Comments
Of course stand alone devices can do a particular task well with "much less specs" as they are dedicated devices to doing that task. I have routers that can do a lot more at their dedicated task than anyone can make a PC do when it comes to routing data and yet they do this with an amount of RAM and Flash that is far lower than what you find in even a smartphone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur
And I've said this before, maybe to you, that THE NETWORK CAN'T HANDLE that much Siri traffic NOW, and if all you 4 owners are let in, YOU won't even be able to use the service AT ALL, and nor will WE who have shelled out for the new hardware! Deal with it! Stop whining!
Is that the reason Apple gave for iPhone4 users not having access to Siri, or is it just the educated guess of a 3rd party? Just curious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I'm not sure who you're replying to as you didn't quote anyone in your post but I do wonder how one assumes the inclusion of a feature should be based on a single performance metric like the CPU. Why shouldn't the hit to overall performance instead of just being technically possible be an issue? Why shouldn't the drain on battery life because it has no dedicated HW for specific tasks be an issue? Why is there no consideration that Apple, knowing it was entering this market a couple years prior, also has secretly updated to their A chips to have specific acceleration specifically for their mapping? Finally, why assume that all mapping software is created equally?
My intended recipient has been quoted.
I didn't mention the CPU - nor did I claim to be basing it on any particular metric. However, it's pretty obvious given the examples since that any of the current Apple phones could easily run a version of turn by turn.
As for battery - how many people take a long turn by turn journey and don't have their phone plugged in to charge? Not too many.
All software is created equal? You mean a seven year old Nokia can run turn by turn on Ovi Maps but the iPhone 4S cannot? It can play Infinity Blade but it can't render a map while you drive along? It's a grab, stop trying to justify it.
I liked the look of the maps in the keynote. They look more hand-drawn than Google's, and I like that. Haven't installed the beta on my iPad yet though, so not completely sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J
This just seems like more Apple crap designed to force users to upgrade, They remove Google Maps and replace it with their own partially functional replacement. What a load of crap. Evidence by Siri working on jailbroken iPhone 4.
Apple's products may be lightyears ahead of where they were 15 years ago, but their customer service/treatment is lightyears behind. And this is from someone who has been using Apple products for over 27 years.
C'mon, you want to upgrade anyway, right? If you don't absolutely need the turn by turn you don't have to up-grade, and if you do you probably already have the TomTom or Navigon apps which are both fine apps and work well.
You think Apple's customer service and treatment is lightyears behind the competition? I beg to differ and take the fact that you have been an Apple customer for 27 years as a sign that you are just getting old and turning into a bit of a curmudgeon.
FYI: Looks like Apple will get street view as well
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbakerstl
FYI: Looks like Apple will get street view as well
Navteq is owned by Nokia, not by Tomtom
Quote:
Originally Posted by kfury77
The turn by turn navigation features in iOS 6 are exaggerated- it's really not that good. The google-powered maps app in iOS 5 has traffic (which actually works in Europe unlike iOS 6), routing, directions, alternate routes - all iOS 6 maps does is have the turn directions in a road sign box at the top and adds voice guidance.
Yep, you definitely read the descriptions on Apple's web site and didn't just look at pictures </sarcasm> The new Maps does all of these things. Crowd-sourced traffic (much like Waze, but built in, so it will be much more useful), gives you multiple routes to choose from, gives you turn by turn directions, reroutes if you miss a turn. Please actually use the service for an extended period of time before you blindly criticize something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion
Navteq is owned by Nokia, not by Tomtom
I thought someone said Apple was using NavTec as well... ohh well.. I guess Nokia is getting street view
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe
In all seriousness, how is this not some type of fragmentation and cause customer confusion?
Siri works here, turn by turn works there but not here...come on. Apple is slowly moving away from that unified coherent experience that separates them from the rest. Crap phones from the 3 years ago with half the specs can handle turn by turn, so the guise of technical limitations seems ridiculous. This doesn't change my opinion of Apple and I'm sure they expect everyone with a 4 to move the new iPhone starting in the fall so it's not a huge issue, but it's still a low move.
I totally agree with you about the fragmentation and this is going to be very confusing for the average user.
If Apple maintains these types of confusing fragmented updates, I could see customer satisfaction ratings heading south for Apple.
I don't believe Apple gave any answer. The educated guess is from seeing Siri come to a crawl the first weekend of Siri's release with just iPhone 4Ses on the loose. There is also word of special chips that have only been added to more recent devices.
Apple is the mot consistent tech company when it comes to products and yet they get blasted for the stupidest reasons. Just like these GPS complaints people complained about iOS not having cut/copy/paste in 2007 and actually used the argument that smartphones have had it for years so Apple must be artificially holding it back with absolutely not conception of how it might actually require a different implemention.
You can buy the same non-Apple smartphone across a country border that has wildly different specs and yet I see no complaining about that.
Bottom line: if people don't like the the positional goods Apple creates by not updating their products with perfect equality through all previous products then stop using their products or get over it because technology and business simply will never work the way some people want it to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Remember when Apple introduced a version of iOS to an older iPhone that made it ver slow for a great many number of users? Remember when people said reason Apple added the update was because they were adding features it couldn't feasibly run so users would be forced to upgrade?
But if Apple doesn't offer a feature to any older device with older HW they are doing it for the same reason of "forcing users to upgrade"? Does that really make sense to suggest that the only way Apple doesn't force people to upgrade is if they never update their HW, SW, or services? I certainly don't think so. But if Apple doesn't update all their stuff at break neck speeds then we hear complaints about how Apple doesn't care about this type of product or this type of user anymore.
I don't think there is anything Apple can do to satisfy the infinitely unsatisfiable.
I think the sentence needs to be adjusted to : "Apple added x feature(s) which forces people to upgrade if they can no longer live without this feature which they have been living without up until now".
A lot of people take delight in pointing out the negative regardless of circumstance.
I think all forum users should be advised to enable two types of filters - the troll filter which makes you automatically skip to the next post, and the curmudgeon filter, which brings up a flag whenever you read posts clearly written without much thought, with too much venom, and too quickly after the 'news' has broken. Generally its the 'venom' part of the filter that is the most significant. It shows personal anguish and an existential need to vent, which is not a good sign. (oh and these are internal filters, built into each one of us. They just need to be enabled)
Not having turn-by-turn on my iPhone 4 will be a drag. I was really hoping it would at least be made available on this edition of the iPhone. #Sucks!
Thank you for asking. I haven't seen anything from anyone, except for maybe one or two posters here, about Apple's capacity to handle real-time data loads from Siri. I'm using this ancient technique called "logic," which is in short supply in today's overwrought minds, who can only think about what THEY want.
It goes like this.
1. All Siri requests are processed centrally by Apple, even those that ask her to dial a number out of your own contact list. At least that's my understanding, correct me if i'm wrong.
2. From the beginning, Siri has been overloaded at certain times, like Friday nights, or on Oscar weekend here in LA. "I'm really sorry about this, but I can't take any requests right now. Please try again in a little why-uhl."
3. Therefore I draw the radical conclusion that Apple's network and processing capacity is limited at this early stage—they just opened the new data center, they're simultaneously rolling out iCloud, and they're selling new phones with Siri at unprecedented rates.
So you (not you but certain others) want them to further bog down Siri by opening her up to the iPhone 4 crowd as well? Then NOBODY WOULD BE HAPPY. That's not what Apple wants.
The same goes for turn-by-turn. IT'S THE NETWORK, people! They are not trying to force you to upgrade, or deprecating your older hardware. They are scrambling to get their data load covered—obviously!
Edit: SoliX reminds us of the first Siri weekend, when hardly anybody had a good time with her. I missed that party. Anyway, I bet turn-by-turn is going to be unusable at certain times for a while, after it rolls out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J
This just seems like more Apple crap designed to force users to upgrade, They remove Google Maps and replace it with their own partially functional replacement. What a load of crap. Evidence by Siri working on jailbroken iPhone 4.
Apple's products may be lightyears ahead of where they were 15 years ago, but their customer service/treatment is lightyears behind. And this is from someone who has been using Apple products for over 27 years.
Yeah, because you want people to just buy your products once and never upgrade.
I want a forth bedroom in my 3 bedroom house. Sure, my house has all the rooms that I payed for, but I'm gonna complain anyway. I mean, my neighbors house has four rooms, so I should just automatically get that too for free, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by StigsHero
Exactly. And while everyone wants to dump on the 3GS, it is in many graphics-intensive cases faster than the iPhone 4. The iPhone 4 is essentially a 3GS with a mild overclock and 4 times as many pixels to push. The iPhone 4 and iPhone 3GS (and the iPad 1) have single core CPUs, the same GPU, and 256MB memory. In the 3GS's favor, is that all that memory isn't tied-up with 4x (5x for iPad 1) images. Even with the differences in CPU, I'm sure they all have enough horsepower to do turn by turn directions. However, the 3GS is the only one that isn't in a severe hurt for memory pretty much all the time. In the end, if there was actually a technical limitation that prompted Apple to limit availability of turn by turn, it'd probably be the memory overhead of having that code in memory at all times. As for flyover, it runs like a dog on my iPad 2... I wouldn't want to think about it on an earlier device.
This post is chock-full of errors. You totally botched all your iphone 4 specs which pretty much negated your entire point.
That said, I agree that performance has something to do with why it hasn't been released on older devices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman
C'mon, you want to upgrade anyway, right? If you don't absolutely need the turn by turn you don't have to up-grade, and if you do you probably already have the TomTom or Navigon apps which are both fine apps and work well.
You think Apple's customer service and treatment is lightyears behind the competition? I beg to differ and take the fact that you have been an Apple customer for 27 years as a sign that you are just getting old and turning into a bit of a curmudgeon.
I will upgrade when the new one comes out. I don't need it, but taking out a fully functional component for a not fully functional one is pretty poor.
As for their customer service, yes it has declined precipitously. Yes, they have the genius bar and lost of face to face support. However, Apple's current MO is to deny issues exist and make you pay for replacements even when thousands of people experience the same issue. There are common problems that occur on their devices that instead of admitting there are issues, they just screw over the customers. I'm not even talking about the antenna issue.