But is that because of the audio receiver tech they added to the A5 chip for compressing the audio for Siri's servers? It's an excuse and easily true but is it the complete truth? I'd think the load from piling on several dozen million more devices at once is a more accurate reason than having slightly better local HW for processing the audio for transmission.
It was the same reason Apple posted when they announced Siri.
Any iDevice you had on Sunday worked the same way on Monday. You're just upset over the positional good
Not at all. The map app is entirely different, and actually lacking things at the moment I had yesterday. And yes, I have the beta. I'm not upset over a positional good. I'm upset I was told iOS 6 gives me a new state of the art map experience with navigation features, which apparently it does not. So really, maybe I don't have iOS 6 at all. I guess I have iOS 5.5.
Quote:
Speaking of getting a grip you say you understand about the Siri situation but you don't understand how turn-by-turn uses a back-end server just like Siri does and probably has a lot more continuous contact with the backend and uses a lot more data per transmission since it's also sending new map data to your device.
Siri was addon feature. Not a replacement of a core app. Again, if a 500Mhz phone with half the memory can run navigation while multitasking over a 144kbps 2G internet connection 3 years ago, why can't it now? Apple's that inept? Google's that far ahead? I'll give you the answer. YOU DON"T KNOW. Frankly you're just another person with an opinion and an internet connection .
Quote:
How is there such a huge disconnect for you and others?
So not content with cutting the iPad 1 off from software updates despite the fact that it's only 2 years old, Apple are now crippling iOS6 for iPhone 4 users.
Apple should have just stuck with Google Maps. Then they'd retain Street View, which is an absolutely critical feature, and would have something which actually runs on every device. Perhaps they could have talked Google into porting their Android turn by turn to iOS, as that runs on pretty much any Android device.
This can only be seen in one way - Apple deliberately crippling their own devices to force people to upgrade. Cheap, and nasty.
You might be right about ditching Google Maps too early, and those who will miss it will probably be demanding it's available as an app.
But your last sentence is the dumb interpretation, or the cheap and nasty one. We've been giving you the alternate reason: the data load. Are you just going to ignore that?
Good idea, rate a product still in Beta that won't be released for another 3 months and you've never actually used.
3 months is not a lot of time to transform worldwide maps from something which is clearly amateurish rubbish into something which can compete with the world leader.
Apple look to have made a colossal mistake in ditching the best maps in the world for no sane reason.
Siri was addon feature. Not a replacement of a core app. Again, if a 500Mhz phone with half the memory can run navigation while multitasking over a 144kbps 2G internet connection 3 years ago, why can't it now? Apple's that inept? Google's that far ahead? I'll give you the answer. YOU DON"T KNOW. Frankly you're just another person with an opinion and an internet connection .
This is getting very annoying. Why do keep insisting that Apple's HW cut of point has anything to do with the HW itself? it's been made very clear that the backend can handle only so much traffic. I'm worried that Siri will suffer from turn-by-turn being used excessively causing their data center to be even more bogged down.
And, no!, you did not have turn-by-turn in any previous iOS Maps version so not having it now because you use an older iDevices is not a feature being taken away.
This is a non-issue. Your don't have turn-by-turn now and you won't have it in the future unless you get an iPhone 4S or newer. If you don't like Apple's new Maps app then download some other maps app. i have a feeling Google will jump on this.
The new 3D function is cool, but currently works for a few cities in the US plus Sydney. The satellite images themselves are very poor in most of the world and often come as black and white, or even extremely pixellated. I really doubt this is going to be fixed until next month. With the lack of street view, this implementation is very poor compared to Google maps.
on the contrary isn't this a good thing, if Google thinks it can build a better App with Turn-by-Whatever then they are free to build it for 3GS/4 where there is no competition from apple itself.
The lack of Street View is my major concern for usability right now. I seldom use it but when I do it's indispensable. I hope Google has a maps app for iOS before too long.
I imagine - and hope - Google will bring out a Maps App - that will continue to work much like the present Maps App. That will be good for Apple too, because if what you say in the rest of your comment (not quoted here) is true then Apple Maps is not truly ready for prime time. It needs to be very close to Google Maps in functionality and usability. I use Navigon and Google Maps intermittently. Very rarely street view. But there can be few annoyances greater than a map which doesn't work well.
The directions, which do offer driving, public, and walking, are all there but the way the blue course line is drawn is wonky in several ways.
That is good to know. I had thought previously it was reported that mass transit schedules was missing. That is something I use quite a bit as that is how I get to and from the office everyday and sometimes my schedule varies so I need to find alternate times. How is the business location search by voice capability within the map?
Not having 3D graphics on the 4 may be understandable (horsepower)? But lack of turn by turn is BS. There's no technical reason why the 4 can't do it, heck I do it right now with Waze.
This is just typical apple to screw over older devices for no reason.
Not having 3D graphics on the 4 may be understandable (horsepower)? But lack of turn by turn is BS. There's no technical reason why the 4 can't do it, heck I do it right now with Waze.
This is just typical apple to screw over older devices for no reason.
Another one. Did you read the thread at all? It's not your sweaty little phone, it's the network it has to connect to.
Can you give me some examples you can match against the current Maps app?
For example I use Google app. I speak 'Public Library'. It then shows me the search results. I then click the places icon which brings up a map. By clicking on the map it presents a dialogue to go to the Maps app which launches the current iOS Maps app and drops a pin on the location. By clicking directions, it routes it from my current location.
You can also just speak an address and it usually just goes straight to the map.
I can see why people are frustrated, but the reality is decisions like this normally don't have a negative impact on Apple as most of their user's are anxious to upgrade their devices whenever they can.
Personally, I do not believe whether or not Siri can run on iPhone 4 is relevant here. Apple has chosen to really go all out with this 3D, Flyover vector-based mapping. If that is the view used in the turn-by-turn navigation, I would say that performance is very likely an issue. Maybe if they could disable Flyover and 3D on the iPhone 4 and just let iPhone 4 users have flat-2D maps, but I have no idea what would be involved in making that happen. Flyover may be too integrated into turn-by-turn to separate the two.
Here is my main point though...
Remember: Microsoft got sued and labeled a monopoly because it kept forcing software companies out of business by adding features to Windows. We are now in the "app economy". Apple HAS to be careful not to tick off app developers by constantly putting them out of business. If they do, they will end up being sued by developers and in the cross-hairs of the FTC. By not porting turn-by-turn to iPhone 4 or 3GS, apps like MotionX and Waze will still have a market for several years. The app store is a HUGE part of Apple's bottom line and they don't want to tick off developers by constantly making apps irrelevant. At the same time, they cannot stay static and must innovate with new and improved features. There are very few ways they can accomplish both, so I believe making certain apps available only on newer devices will continue. And I certainly believe keeping app developers happy is the main reason for doing so.
Remember when Apple introduced a version of iOS to an older iPhone that made it ver slow for a great many number of users? Remember when people said reason Apple added the update was because they were adding features it couldn't feasibly run so users would be forced to upgrade?
But if Apple doesn't offer a feature to any older device with older HW they are doing it for the same reason of "forcing users to upgrade"? Does that really make sense to suggest that the only way Apple doesn't force people to upgrade is if they never update their HW, SW, or services? I certainly don't think so. But if Apple doesn't update all their stuff at break neck speeds then we hear complaints about how Apple doesn't care about this type of product or this type of user anymore.
I don't think there is anything Apple can do to satisfy the infinitely unsatisfiable.
You're referring to the iPhone 3G, and iOS 4 was horrible on it. Since then, when I hear that a feature won't be supported on an older phone, I just go with it.
The iPhone 4 has 512MB of memory unlike the 3GS and iPad with 256. The CPU is more than a mild overclock as well. The A4, while a Cortex A8 is an entirely different design from it's predecessor in the 3GS. The only common denominator is the SGX535 GPU.
My mistake, you're right about the memory... It's the retina iPod Touches that got the 256MB A4, not the iPhone 4. However, though the A4 is different silicon and no doubt has some optimizations, I still contend that it's essentially the same CPU at a 200MHz advantage over the one in the 3GS. Yeah, it's probably an exaggeration to call a 30% bump a "mild" overclock but the truth is that little of what's done with these devices is CPU bound. It's all memory, GPU, and in fewer cases, flash speed.
Please direct me on how to enable turn-by-turn spoken directions and 3D view with the current Google Maps app, because I don't see it.
He could easily be referring to the missing Transit directions, which are currently in Maps, used heavily by urbanites, and was handed off to other Apps in the App Store during Apple's keynote yesterday.
For example I use Google app. I speak 'Public Library'. It then shows me the search results. I then click the places icon which brings up a map. By clicking on the map it presents a dialogue to go to the Maps app which launches the current iOS Maps app and drops a pin on the location. By clicking directions, it routes it from my current location.
You can also just speak an address and it usually just goes straight to the map.
This currently is a good replacement for you. While the icons for driving, walking and public are there when i try to use the public transportation option in any city it jumps to a window in the app that is trying to show me routing app on the App Store. It's unfortunately blank and to make matters worse it didn't let me know beforehand that public transportation isn't currently supported. If that is how it works at the GM then that's a problem but for now I'll let it slide.
Another issue is that you can't switch between the three types of transit easily. You have to cancel the route, then choose a different method, and then input the destination again (and the source if it's not your current location, and then click Route. I love the current Maps app that lets me click through each to see which method is more efficient. I hope they change this because that is a step back in UI efficiency.
Speaking the locations and directions into Siri worked very well from the Siri end but it unravels quickly on the app side. It seems like a lot to fix on the front and backends in a few months.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
But is that because of the audio receiver tech they added to the A5 chip for compressing the audio for Siri's servers? It's an excuse and easily true but is it the complete truth? I'd think the load from piling on several dozen million more devices at once is a more accurate reason than having slightly better local HW for processing the audio for transmission.
It was the same reason Apple posted when they announced Siri.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Any iDevice you had on Sunday worked the same way on Monday. You're just upset over the positional good
Not at all. The map app is entirely different, and actually lacking things at the moment I had yesterday. And yes, I have the beta. I'm not upset over a positional good. I'm upset I was told iOS 6 gives me a new state of the art map experience with navigation features, which apparently it does not. So really, maybe I don't have iOS 6 at all. I guess I have iOS 5.5.
Quote:
Speaking of getting a grip you say you understand about the Siri situation but you don't understand how turn-by-turn uses a back-end server just like Siri does and probably has a lot more continuous contact with the backend and uses a lot more data per transmission since it's also sending new map data to your device.
Siri was addon feature. Not a replacement of a core app. Again, if a 500Mhz phone with half the memory can run navigation while multitasking over a 144kbps 2G internet connection 3 years ago, why can't it now? Apple's that inept? Google's that far ahead? I'll give you the answer. YOU DON"T KNOW. Frankly you're just another person with an opinion and an internet connection .
Quote:
How is there such a huge disconnect for you and others?
Touche.
You might be right about ditching Google Maps too early, and those who will miss it will probably be demanding it's available as an app.
But your last sentence is the dumb interpretation, or the cheap and nasty one. We've been giving you the alternate reason: the data load. Are you just going to ignore that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilution
Good idea, rate a product still in Beta that won't be released for another 3 months and you've never actually used.
3 months is not a lot of time to transform worldwide maps from something which is clearly amateurish rubbish into something which can compete with the world leader.
Apple look to have made a colossal mistake in ditching the best maps in the world for no sane reason.
This is getting very annoying. Why do keep insisting that Apple's HW cut of point has anything to do with the HW itself? it's been made very clear that the backend can handle only so much traffic. I'm worried that Siri will suffer from turn-by-turn being used excessively causing their data center to be even more bogged down.
And, no!, you did not have turn-by-turn in any previous iOS Maps version so not having it now because you use an older iDevices is not a feature being taken away.
This is a non-issue. Your don't have turn-by-turn now and you won't have it in the future unless you get an iPhone 4S or newer. If you don't like Apple's new Maps app then download some other maps app. i have a feeling Google will jump on this.
The new 3D function is cool, but currently works for a few cities in the US plus Sydney. The satellite images themselves are very poor in most of the world and often come as black and white, or even extremely pixellated. I really doubt this is going to be fixed until next month. With the lack of street view, this implementation is very poor compared to Google maps.
on the contrary isn't this a good thing, if Google thinks it can build a better App with Turn-by-Whatever then they are free to build it for 3GS/4 where there is no competition from apple itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
The lack of Street View is my major concern for usability right now. I seldom use it but when I do it's indispensable. I hope Google has a maps app for iOS before too long.
I imagine - and hope - Google will bring out a Maps App - that will continue to work much like the present Maps App. That will be good for Apple too, because if what you say in the rest of your comment (not quoted here) is true then Apple Maps is not truly ready for prime time. It needs to be very close to Google Maps in functionality and usability. I use Navigon and Google Maps intermittently. Very rarely street view. But there can be few annoyances greater than a map which doesn't work well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
The directions, which do offer driving, public, and walking, are all there but the way the blue course line is drawn is wonky in several ways.
That is good to know. I had thought previously it was reported that mass transit schedules was missing. That is something I use quite a bit as that is how I get to and from the office everyday and sometimes my schedule varies so I need to find alternate times. How is the business location search by voice capability within the map?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J
They remove Google Maps and replace it with their own partially functional replacement.
Please direct me on how to enable turn-by-turn spoken directions and 3D view with the current Google Maps app, because I don't see it.
Not having 3D graphics on the 4 may be understandable (horsepower)? But lack of turn by turn is BS. There's no technical reason why the 4 can't do it, heck I do it right now with Waze.
This is just typical apple to screw over older devices for no reason.
Can you give me some examples you can match against the current Maps app?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcorban
Please direct me on how to enable turn-by-turn spoken directions and 3D view with the current Google Maps app, because I don't see it.
It didn't say it did less than google maps, but that it doesn't work perfectly. Far from it. Too bad because I like the design of the maps.
Another one. Did you read the thread at all? It's not your sweaty little phone, it's the network it has to connect to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Can you give me some examples you can match against the current Maps app?
For example I use Google app. I speak 'Public Library'. It then shows me the search results. I then click the places icon which brings up a map. By clicking on the map it presents a dialogue to go to the Maps app which launches the current iOS Maps app and drops a pin on the location. By clicking directions, it routes it from my current location.
You can also just speak an address and it usually just goes straight to the map.
I can see why people are frustrated, but the reality is decisions like this normally don't have a negative impact on Apple as most of their user's are anxious to upgrade their devices whenever they can.
Personally, I do not believe whether or not Siri can run on iPhone 4 is relevant here. Apple has chosen to really go all out with this 3D, Flyover vector-based mapping. If that is the view used in the turn-by-turn navigation, I would say that performance is very likely an issue. Maybe if they could disable Flyover and 3D on the iPhone 4 and just let iPhone 4 users have flat-2D maps, but I have no idea what would be involved in making that happen. Flyover may be too integrated into turn-by-turn to separate the two.
Here is my main point though...
Remember: Microsoft got sued and labeled a monopoly because it kept forcing software companies out of business by adding features to Windows. We are now in the "app economy". Apple HAS to be careful not to tick off app developers by constantly putting them out of business. If they do, they will end up being sued by developers and in the cross-hairs of the FTC. By not porting turn-by-turn to iPhone 4 or 3GS, apps like MotionX and Waze will still have a market for several years. The app store is a HUGE part of Apple's bottom line and they don't want to tick off developers by constantly making apps irrelevant. At the same time, they cannot stay static and must innovate with new and improved features. There are very few ways they can accomplish both, so I believe making certain apps available only on newer devices will continue. And I certainly believe keeping app developers happy is the main reason for doing so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Remember when Apple introduced a version of iOS to an older iPhone that made it ver slow for a great many number of users? Remember when people said reason Apple added the update was because they were adding features it couldn't feasibly run so users would be forced to upgrade?
But if Apple doesn't offer a feature to any older device with older HW they are doing it for the same reason of "forcing users to upgrade"? Does that really make sense to suggest that the only way Apple doesn't force people to upgrade is if they never update their HW, SW, or services? I certainly don't think so. But if Apple doesn't update all their stuff at break neck speeds then we hear complaints about how Apple doesn't care about this type of product or this type of user anymore.
I don't think there is anything Apple can do to satisfy the infinitely unsatisfiable.
You're referring to the iPhone 3G, and iOS 4 was horrible on it. Since then, when I hear that a feature won't be supported on an older phone, I just go with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe
The iPhone 4 has 512MB of memory unlike the 3GS and iPad with 256. The CPU is more than a mild overclock as well. The A4, while a Cortex A8 is an entirely different design from it's predecessor in the 3GS. The only common denominator is the SGX535 GPU.
My mistake, you're right about the memory... It's the retina iPod Touches that got the 256MB A4, not the iPhone 4. However, though the A4 is different silicon and no doubt has some optimizations, I still contend that it's essentially the same CPU at a 200MHz advantage over the one in the 3GS. Yeah, it's probably an exaggeration to call a 30% bump a "mild" overclock but the truth is that little of what's done with these devices is CPU bound. It's all memory, GPU, and in fewer cases, flash speed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcorban
Please direct me on how to enable turn-by-turn spoken directions and 3D view with the current Google Maps app, because I don't see it.
He could easily be referring to the missing Transit directions, which are currently in Maps, used heavily by urbanites, and was handed off to other Apps in the App Store during Apple's keynote yesterday.
This currently is a good replacement for you. While the icons for driving, walking and public are there when i try to use the public transportation option in any city it jumps to a window in the app that is trying to show me routing app on the App Store. It's unfortunately blank and to make matters worse it didn't let me know beforehand that public transportation isn't currently supported. If that is how it works at the GM then that's a problem but for now I'll let it slide.
Another issue is that you can't switch between the three types of transit easily. You have to cancel the route, then choose a different method, and then input the destination again (and the source if it's not your current location, and then click Route. I love the current Maps app that lets me click through each to see which method is more efficient. I hope they change this because that is a step back in UI efficiency.
Speaking the locations and directions into Siri worked very well from the Siri end but it unravels quickly on the app side. It seems like a lot to fix on the front and backends in a few months.