I see the problem. I checked the website within minutes of the IOS6 announcement. My browser cached the page and this is what it showed. Now I refreshed it, and I do see that they have changed it to 4S.
Looks like, Apple changed their tune from the time they announced to now.
Not on Verizon, they don't. Network throughput is not the reason they are limiting these features to the 4S. There are no hardware limitations either.
You're just making things up here about the hardware and you know it. Anyone who thinks they are being "shafted" or anything similar is just a whiner. It's always the same with every product release, and there is no logical argument to support the whining.
The essential argument being made by the whiners goes like this:
"I want the latest features, but I don't want to upgrade every year to get them."
It may also be that these new advanced features that are very beificial, convienent, and more "flashy" to the public eye may and probable will get more use, and suck up more cellular data because of their ease of use and mainstream attraction.
So knowing this the mobile networks (like Verizon) who are trying to cap or move people away from their grandfathered unlimited data plans, struck a deal to allow it only on the newest devices.
Version won't let you upgrade your phone without switching to a metered cellular plan.
So when The new iPhone comes out, of course you want it . . .
Byebye unlimited plan.
So this makes since in that regard.
Some of these features can be done on older devices but I'm sure it scares the ish out of the networks with all the popularity and unlimited plans out there.
It's a calculated rule, and I'm sure that's what Steve Jobs meant when he announced FaceTime and said something like needing to "work a little" with the networks.
Just imagine what impact "Siri Does Dallas" (Cowboys, Stars, Rangers, Mavericks, Sidekicks...) will have on network usage when people look up scores, stats, etc...
This Siri Sports ability, alone will, likely, drive the Siri servers performance down the drain, day-in-day-out, year 'round.
One way to help assure reasonable performance for desired/limited service is to charge [more] for the service the better it is -- box seats cost more than bleacher seats.
Another way is to provide the service free, but limit access to, say, members of the stadium club (as a benefit of paid membership in the club).
So, what Apple/carriers are doing with these "limited-availability" services -- is providing them free, but limiting the access to them to "members of the club who have paid their dues".
Another way to consider this -- everyone who buys a ticket is not entitled to sit in the executive boxes. Even if the team wanted to allow it, there aren't enough seats for everyone...
In this case, "seats" equates to the bandwidth/server load necessary to deliver an acceptable level of service.
Even if you have the ability to buy executive box seats -- no one is forcing you to... you can buy an end zone seat for a much lower price.
But it is unrealistic to expect when you bought executive boxes last year -- and therefore that entitles you to site in the executive boxes this year (with your end zone ticket).
That's the way of the world with cars, sports, computers, cell phones... you get what you pay for when you buy it.
If you want/need a thing badly enough you will find a way to pay for it.
Would you say that since the original iPhone could do FaceTime over Wi-Fi it could do FaceTime over cellular? Not all 3G is created equal, either.
You're both right. I have no doubt that the iPhone 4 could do FaceTime over 3G. In fact, weren't there hacks to enable this a while back? Apple is just choosing to not allow it...and we all know why. I agree, however, with what you wrote about 3G.
What is it with people calling devices obsolete when they're actively being sold? Very condescending, IMO. This answer is frequently accompanied by the arguments that people should simply buy the latest that the company offers if they want the newest features.
Is it that much to expect that a company support their current offerings? Apple (any company for that matter) should make it clear what the support guidelines are. Wouldn't it be odd if, for example, Mountain Lion didn't support Messages or Facetime with i7 not i5? Only on MacBooks purchased in 2011 and 2012? Only with MacBook Pro and not MacBook Air? I suppose the same arguments could be made there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vandil
Is it really that much of a shock that Apple is making the newest features exclusive to its latest products? If your hardware is 2 years old, it's already obsolete for a company who updates its hardware on a yearly cycle.
I can't imagine what fun feature items will be unavailable for users of 2010 equipment for Mountain Lion later this summer and for iOS7 next year.
People who bought a Mac before this week's refresh and an iPad 2 before the new iPad came out were especially screwed, but they should have known better by doing research and realizing that Apple's behavior is quite established.
If you want to ride the "Latest and Greatest" tech wave with Apple and get the most bang for your hardware buck, your best bet is to have a big wallet and be ready to refresh your hardware every 2 years so that you can leapfrog. Buy every other iPhone. Buy every other MacBook refresh. Dump your old hardware on craigslist, ebay, or to Windows-using relatives.
My forecasts for 2013:
People who bought a Mac computer in the 2011 Back To School season will miss out on some features in 2013's OSX 10.9. (Think of Air Drop, requiring only newer machines when 10.7 came out, for example.)
The iPhone 3GS will be replaced by the iPhone4 as the legacy "free" phone. The iPhone4S will not get every feature in 2013's iOS7 -- those features require the A6 processor found only in the iPhone5. The iPad4 runs everything in iOS7. The new iPad (3) runs most things.
If the iPhone 4 can do FaceTime over Wi-Fi, it can do FaceTime over 3G...
They could be compressing the image more for 3G connections to reduce bandwidth which may require the faster processor in the 4S to get the reliability and performance Apple wants.
See the Siri example, You can hack Siri to run on the iPhone 4 as well, but the 4 doesn't have the hardware support that's built into the 4S that allows for better voice recognition. So in that case it wasn't an arbitrary decision to require the 4S. I doubt it was just an arbitrary decision in the case of FaceTime.
As for turn by turn that was mentioned. That service is tied to Siri and Siri requires 4S, so of course turn by turn requires the 4S.
Almost as bad as Siri not being made available for iPad 2 in iOS 6, even though you can still buy it new now.
What does that have to do with anything? Do you really think the iPhone 3GS is going to get virtually any new features whatsoever? It'll get Facebook integration; that's about it.
"Fragmentation" here is referring to the number of active smartphones on a particular platform running different OS versions. And platform is a proxy for and is being conflated with actual features. iOS 6 will support all actively sold mobile devices and likely be quickly installed. The features, however, will not be available on all devices. That VIP and flagged mail and Offline Reading List won't work on 3GS is peculiar. HTH.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamC
I do it is great for talking to my son in Japan and the best part is it is free.
What fragmenting are you referring to and do you know the meaning of fragmenting.
FaceTime over a cellular network requires iPhone 4S or iPad (3rd generation) with cellular data capability. Carrier data charges may apply. FaceTime is not available in all countries.
What does that have to do with anything? Do you really think the iPhone 3GS is going to get virtually any new features whatsoever? It'll get Facebook integration; that's about it.
I wasn't referring to the 3GS, I was referring to the iPhone 4, which is also still available to buy.
It's one thing for these devices to be technically inferior in some ways (speed, camera quality etc) but another to artificially restrict features (like Face Time and Siri) for no rational reason, other than a nod to the carriers to restrict data on their networks.
Quite honestly, AI needs to get a bit more objective too in its reporting, rather than being an apologist for every decision Apple makes.
[quote name="Zoolook" url="/t/150685/facetime-over-3g-with-ios-6-limited-to-iphone-4s-ipad-3/40#post_2127345"]I wasn't referring to the 3GS, I was referring to the iPhone 4, which is also [B]still available to buy[/B].[/QUOTE]
But [B]that[/B] was your point.
[QUOTE]…artificially restrict features (like Face Time and Siri) for no rational reason…[/QUOTE]
I wasn't referring to the 3GS, I was referring to the iPhone 4, which is also still available to buy.
It's one thing for these devices to be technically inferior in some ways (speed, camera quality etc) but another to artificially restrict features (like Face Time and Siri) for no rational reason, other than a nod to the carriers to restrict data on their networks.
Quite honestly, AI needs to get a bit more objective too in its reporting, rather than being an apologist for every decision Apple makes.
There are technical reasons - here is the reason for Siri - there is new hardware built into the A5 that is specifically to support Siri. Apple won't release as substandard implementation on devices that don't have this hardware.
iPhone 4S has special noise reduction hardware for SIRI, makes official iPhone 4 Siri port unlikely
It turns out that Apple's Siri voice assistant is enabled by special noise reduction hardware called earSmart, wired right into the Apple A5 processor. The technology is made by Audience, which has an earSmart-less chip in the iPhone 4. The difference is, the iPhone 4 chip was designed to reduce noise when speaking directly into the microphone (like when you're on a phone call), while the chip in the iPhone 4S is designed for a wider field of sound, so you could talk to your phone at arm's-length (as one tends to with Siri) and still benefit from noise cancellation. The bundling of earSmart with the processor explains why the A5 chip was so much bigger than expected, even after taking into account the second core. It also means that, if you're still desperately clinging to the hope that Apple will someday update the iPhone 4with Siri functionality, now's the time to let go.
Comments
I see the problem. I checked the website within minutes of the IOS6 announcement. My browser cached the page and this is what it showed. Now I refreshed it, and I do see that they have changed it to 4S.
Looks like, Apple changed their tune from the time they announced to now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylersdad
Not on Verizon, they don't. Network throughput is not the reason they are limiting these features to the 4S. There are no hardware limitations either.
You're just making things up here about the hardware and you know it. Anyone who thinks they are being "shafted" or anything similar is just a whiner. It's always the same with every product release, and there is no logical argument to support the whining.
The essential argument being made by the whiners goes like this:
"I want the latest features, but I don't want to upgrade every year to get them."
Rational? No.
Pls remove this post, admins.
Thanks for posting a link to this. Very helpful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciwiz
From Engadget: http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/12/psa-which-ios-6-features-can-my-device-run/
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylersdad
Siri? Works on jailbroken phones.
But not as well.
A large part of the quality of Siri's voice recognition is the new microphone on the 4S.
Even on my 4S if I use a bluetooth mic, Siri does not work as well on my 4S.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StephanJobs
It may also be that these new advanced features that are very beificial, convienent, and more "flashy" to the public eye may and probable will get more use, and suck up more cellular data because of their ease of use and mainstream attraction.
So knowing this the mobile networks (like Verizon) who are trying to cap or move people away from their grandfathered unlimited data plans, struck a deal to allow it only on the newest devices.
Version won't let you upgrade your phone without switching to a metered cellular plan.
So when The new iPhone comes out, of course you want it . . .
Byebye unlimited plan.
So this makes since in that regard.
Some of these features can be done on older devices but I'm sure it scares the ish out of the networks with all the popularity and unlimited plans out there.
It's a calculated rule, and I'm sure that's what Steve Jobs meant when he announced FaceTime and said something like needing to "work a little" with the networks.
Just imagine what impact "Siri Does Dallas" (Cowboys, Stars, Rangers, Mavericks, Sidekicks...) will have on network usage when people look up scores, stats, etc...
This Siri Sports ability, alone will, likely, drive the Siri servers performance down the drain, day-in-day-out, year 'round.
One way to help assure reasonable performance for desired/limited service is to charge [more] for the service the better it is -- box seats cost more than bleacher seats.
Another way is to provide the service free, but limit access to, say, members of the stadium club (as a benefit of paid membership in the club).
So, what Apple/carriers are doing with these "limited-availability" services -- is providing them free, but limiting the access to them to "members of the club who have paid their dues".
Another way to consider this -- everyone who buys a ticket is not entitled to sit in the executive boxes. Even if the team wanted to allow it, there aren't enough seats for everyone...
In this case, "seats" equates to the bandwidth/server load necessary to deliver an acceptable level of service.
Even if you have the ability to buy executive box seats -- no one is forcing you to... you can buy an end zone seat for a much lower price.
But it is unrealistic to expect when you bought executive boxes last year -- and therefore that entitles you to site in the executive boxes this year (with your end zone ticket).
That's the way of the world with cars, sports, computers, cell phones... you get what you pay for when you buy it.
If you want/need a thing badly enough you will find a way to pay for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
No, that's not how you determine it.
Would you say that since the original iPhone could do FaceTime over Wi-Fi it could do FaceTime over cellular? Not all 3G is created equal, either.
You're both right. I have no doubt that the iPhone 4 could do FaceTime over 3G. In fact, weren't there hacks to enable this a while back? Apple is just choosing to not allow it...and we all know why. I agree, however, with what you wrote about 3G.
What is it with people calling devices obsolete when they're actively being sold? Very condescending, IMO. This answer is frequently accompanied by the arguments that people should simply buy the latest that the company offers if they want the newest features.
Is it that much to expect that a company support their current offerings? Apple (any company for that matter) should make it clear what the support guidelines are. Wouldn't it be odd if, for example, Mountain Lion didn't support Messages or Facetime with i7 not i5? Only on MacBooks purchased in 2011 and 2012? Only with MacBook Pro and not MacBook Air? I suppose the same arguments could be made there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vandil
Is it really that much of a shock that Apple is making the newest features exclusive to its latest products? If your hardware is 2 years old, it's already obsolete for a company who updates its hardware on a yearly cycle.
I can't imagine what fun feature items will be unavailable for users of 2010 equipment for Mountain Lion later this summer and for iOS7 next year.
People who bought a Mac before this week's refresh and an iPad 2 before the new iPad came out were especially screwed, but they should have known better by doing research and realizing that Apple's behavior is quite established.
If you want to ride the "Latest and Greatest" tech wave with Apple and get the most bang for your hardware buck, your best bet is to have a big wallet and be ready to refresh your hardware every 2 years so that you can leapfrog. Buy every other iPhone. Buy every other MacBook refresh. Dump your old hardware on craigslist, ebay, or to Windows-using relatives.
My forecasts for 2013:
People who bought a Mac computer in the 2011 Back To School season will miss out on some features in 2013's OSX 10.9. (Think of Air Drop, requiring only newer machines when 10.7 came out, for example.)
The iPhone 3GS will be replaced by the iPhone4 as the legacy "free" phone. The iPhone4S will not get every feature in 2013's iOS7 -- those features require the A6 processor found only in the iPhone5. The iPad4 runs everything in iOS7. The new iPad (3) runs most things.
I do it is great for talking to my son in Japan and the best part is it is free.
What fragmenting are you referring to and do you know the meaning of fragmenting.
iOS 6 on iPhone 4 can do Facetime over 3G cellular.
The blogger of this piece is flat wrong and I am surprise he didn't amend this blog.
FAIL.
Almost as bad as Siri not being made available for iPad 2 in iOS 6, even though you can still buy it new now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpriceslc
If the iPhone 4 can do FaceTime over Wi-Fi, it can do FaceTime over 3G...
They could be compressing the image more for 3G connections to reduce bandwidth which may require the faster processor in the 4S to get the reliability and performance Apple wants.
See the Siri example, You can hack Siri to run on the iPhone 4 as well, but the 4 doesn't have the hardware support that's built into the 4S that allows for better voice recognition. So in that case it wasn't an arbitrary decision to require the 4S. I doubt it was just an arbitrary decision in the case of FaceTime.
As for turn by turn that was mentioned. That service is tied to Siri and Siri requires 4S, so of course turn by turn requires the 4S.
What does that have to do with anything? Do you really think the iPhone 3GS is going to get virtually any new features whatsoever? It'll get Facebook integration; that's about it.
"Fragmentation" here is referring to the number of active smartphones on a particular platform running different OS versions. And platform is a proxy for and is being conflated with actual features. iOS 6 will support all actively sold mobile devices and likely be quickly installed. The features, however, will not be available on all devices. That VIP and flagged mail and Offline Reading List won't work on 3GS is peculiar. HTH.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamC
I do it is great for talking to my son in Japan and the best part is it is free.
What fragmenting are you referring to and do you know the meaning of fragmenting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamC
iOS 6 on iPhone 4 can do Facetime over 3G cellular.
The blogger of this piece is flat wrong and I am surprise he didn't amend this blog.
FAIL.
According to Apple he is right - their website explicitly says that the iPhone 4 running iOS6 will not run facetime over cellular.
Quote: Apple
FaceTime over a cellular network requires iPhone 4S or iPad (3rd generation) with cellular data capability. Carrier data charges may apply. FaceTime is not available in all countries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
What does that have to do with anything? Do you really think the iPhone 3GS is going to get virtually any new features whatsoever? It'll get Facebook integration; that's about it.
I wasn't referring to the 3GS, I was referring to the iPhone 4, which is also still available to buy.
It's one thing for these devices to be technically inferior in some ways (speed, camera quality etc) but another to artificially restrict features (like Face Time and Siri) for no rational reason, other than a nod to the carriers to restrict data on their networks.
Quite honestly, AI needs to get a bit more objective too in its reporting, rather than being an apologist for every decision Apple makes.
But [B]that[/B] was your point.
[QUOTE]…artificially restrict features (like Face Time and Siri) for no rational reason…[/QUOTE]
You're certain of this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook
I wasn't referring to the 3GS, I was referring to the iPhone 4, which is also still available to buy.
It's one thing for these devices to be technically inferior in some ways (speed, camera quality etc) but another to artificially restrict features (like Face Time and Siri) for no rational reason, other than a nod to the carriers to restrict data on their networks.
Quite honestly, AI needs to get a bit more objective too in its reporting, rather than being an apologist for every decision Apple makes.
There are technical reasons - here is the reason for Siri - there is new hardware built into the A5 that is specifically to support Siri. Apple won't release as substandard implementation on devices that don't have this hardware.
http://article-interlingual.blogspot.com/2012/02/iphone-4s-has-special-noise-reduction.html
Quote:
iPhone 4S has special noise reduction hardware for SIRI, makes official iPhone 4 Siri port unlikely
It turns out that Apple's Siri voice assistant is enabled by special noise reduction hardware called earSmart, wired right into the Apple A5 processor. The technology is made by Audience, which has an earSmart-less chip in the iPhone 4. The difference is, the iPhone 4 chip was designed to reduce noise when speaking directly into the microphone (like when you're on a phone call), while the chip in the iPhone 4S is designed for a wider field of sound, so you could talk to your phone at arm's-length (as one tends to with Siri) and still benefit from noise cancellation. The bundling of earSmart with the processor explains why the A5 chip was so much bigger than expected, even after taking into account the second core. It also means that, if you're still desperately clinging to the hope that Apple will someday update the iPhone 4with Siri functionality, now's the time to let go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacVertigo
Wow - us iphone 4 owners are really getting the shaft. Pretty shitty move Apple - considering my phone is only a little over a year old.
Nothing prevents you from using Tango or Skype.