Lack of FaceTime over 3G on iP4 is either a pure commercial move, or a way of limiting network traffic to suit the carriers.
It's unlikely to be for technical reasons - FaceTime works fine over 3G on a jailbroken iP4 with the appropriate hacks. Sure, the 4S has better 3G, but is that a reason to limit FaceTime? 3G speeds vary much more across networks and across areas than they do between 4 and 4S.
Not that there's really anything wrong with it as a commercial move. People can complain all they like, but Apple has no obligation to deliver any new features whatsoever to iPhones after they've been bought.
Still not understanding why video Skype works fine over 3G on the 4, but Facetime won't.
Even more important, all this does is make Facetime even less relevant, useful and popular. I use Skype all the time, even when I'm in WiFi, because don't have to change up and back and Facetime brings nothing to the table Skype doesn't give me. I would think Apple would want to push Facetime to as many users as possible to increase the general use.
Still not understanding why video Skype works fine over 3G on the 4, but Facetime won't.
Even more important, all this does is make Facetime even less relevant, useful and popular. I use Skype all the time, even when I'm in WiFi, because don't have to change up and back and Facetime brings nothing to the table Skype doesn't give me. I would think Apple would want to push Facetime to as many users as possible to increase the general use.
FaceTime and Skype aren't exactly the same in terms of it's technical functions - to some degree Factime is part of the cellular voice system (it does video over voice) - skype is just pure data through and through - they even have their own account system for voice phone calls to the telephony network (in fact their entire network is private) - something that Apple lacks since it uses the carrier network - that's why its availability is limited.
Well lets see. Every phone can use skype and android supports native video calling for years now over data. From the numbers more than 50% of the world smartphones use android AND 100% of the world smartphones can use Skype.
Now add to that research that shows Android users tend to use data more than wifi, AND that if you wanted to video chat you would have skype on your phone ANYWAY....I just can't see how this is a carrier thing.
Its business. At some point you just have to realise its a business. They spend a lot of money developing those iOS features (although more and more they seem to be mimicking features other mobile OS's had for years) and they need to make that back through sales.
And lets be real. Apple isn't the only company. Why didn't Samsung release S-Voice for the GS2? What, does S-Voice need a quad core to work? Of course not, they just want people to buy their latest phone.
Business, people. Business.
While I do believe this is a tactic, I don't believe it's the end all be all with the answer as to why older iPhones won't share in some of these features.
Skype is a NOT a native app on iPhone and there is a huge difference in how this app is viewed visibly by the public and carriers.
When Apple has a keynote with a mass media appeal and subsequent product launch touting these awesome features that are native apps and are extremely beneficial and easy to use, it is a world of difference in how it used and perceived by the public.
When you buy these phones with all the hype and information provided, its bound to be utilized in droves. That shiny new button beckons for it to be touched.
It's like a push button start on a car. It's gonna take a hit.
Skype has to be located downloaded and activated through the user. Also they have to have an individual account.
These difference make just enough separation for it to not be as much of an issue.
I know my dad has used FaceTime as well as my mom. But they show no interest nor have they ever used Skype, even after I had shown them the way.
Don't get me wrong Skype has tons of recognition and users but the app is submitted to apple for approval and a contract exists through them which may provide them with a sort of protection against the cellular networks
I'm sure the networks hate those apps too and wish or plan to do something about it int the future such as metered plans and doing away with unlimited data plans.
WUT? Most of the 4S user's I know have grandfathered data plans along with myself and my wife's phone...upgrading to the new phone would not change your plan..just your contract term length.
Never let reality get into the way of a good theory.
My Android phone is less than a year old and I cannot even get the current OS, not even talking about the next OS, and you complain about getting only 95% of the features of the next OS?
(Actually, I don't have an Android phone but what I said would apply to the vast majority of Android users.)
Major difference with the Android updates and the Apple updates, Google update their core applications quite often, regardless of OS update, while Apple will generally wait for an OS update to do the same
**** you Apple. My iPhone 4 is less than a year old, and you're trying to coerce me into buying new one already? Why, so you can put some random limit on that phone to drive sales of the next one in another couple of months?. It's my data plan, stop arbitrarily telling me what I can use it for. Enough with the 50mb app store dowload limits too, assholes.
Although iPhone 4 is a two year old phone (June 2010 release). The iPhone 4 did basically get all of iOS5 excepting Siri. That said, I do think that this iOS strategy is quite a bit more severe than it need be, and has ever been because previously it was about hardware limitation on legacy models, and now it's about software and data usage and hardware. FaceTime on 3G should be on iPhone 4, likewise turn by turn, and everything else software related. The rest I could understand.
The thing with FaceTime is that sometime in the not too distant future, most if not all people will be on a Siri capable model and more (especially now Apple are keen for you to do so by limiting a bunch of the great stuff to the 4S), so the networks asking Apple to limit the phone to one model doesn't make sense to me. It feels more like an Apple decision to me, I mean they're not going to impose FaceTime 3G limits on the whole world because some US carriers don't like the idea of the data usage hike on their networks in their country. All countries and networks are different. Why would they do this? Just a new push to get the user to upgrade. I'm upgrading to the iPhone 5 anyway, but there are going to be some annoyed loyal people because of stuff like this because the need to upgrade hardware to benefit the software hasn't been imposed so harshly before.
I wasn't referring to the 3GS, I was referring to the iPhone 4, which is also still available to buy.
But that was your point.
Quote:
…artificially restrict features (like Face Time and Siri) for no rational reason…
You're certain of this?
Yes it was my point, and I think it's valid.
As for my certainty, it might depend on one's definition of rational, however Apple have a happy habit of killing compatibility very early and it's often not for good reasons. Is there really any reason Logic 8 shouldn't have worked on Lion, especially given if you bypass the package shortcut it actually does. Is there any reason Facetime, iMessage or even iCloud can't work on 32-bit Intel Macs? Apple seems to support WindowsXP better than it supports Snow Leopard. Is there any reason the iPad 2 cannot have dictation, given it has exactly the same CPU and audio processing capabilities as the New iPad? Why can't a 2.26ghz Mac Mini with a 9400m playback iTunes 1080p smoothly, when Windows machines with much lower CPU speeds can (it's because they can't be arsed to write efficient hardware decode drivers). Again, XP gets better support than OS X here.
Again, I don't know why AI isn't a little more discerning in its critical outlook of Apple.
There are technical reasons - here is the reason for Siri - there is new hardware built into the A5 that is specifically to support Siri. Apple won't release as substandard implementation on devices that don't have this hardware.
Everyone says this so I'm going to have to throw it out:
Both the iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S have earSmart (albiet different generations) and both are designed for wide fields of noise cancelation - the 4S's introduction of the updated generation of earSmart is merely an incremental upgrade. People who are willing to do their research can find documents with this information in it.
Also, don't bump it until you've tried it, dudes and dudette, Siri on an iPhone 4 and don't have problems over here.
For everything else that's missing, looks like I'll be continuing jailbreaking with iOS6 until I get get the cash for the next iPhone upgrade. Bummer.
Nooooooooooooooooo! FaceTime has NOTHING to do with the power of the A4 and A5 chip. I want FaceTime over 3G. I could understand if it was due to 4G limitations, but the 4S doesn't use 4G so they can't blame it on that. I am super disappointed.
Just imagine what impact "Siri Does Dallas" (Cowboys, Stars, Rangers, Mavericks, Sidekicks...) will have on network usage when people look up scores, stats, etc...
This Siri Sports ability, alone will, likely, drive the Siri servers performance down the drain, day-in-day-out, year 'round.
One way to help assure reasonable performance for desired/limited service is to charge [more] for the service the better it is -- box seats cost more than bleacher seats.
Another way is to provide the service free, but limit access to, say, members of the stadium club (as a benefit of paid membership in the club).
So, what Apple/carriers are doing with these "limited-availability" services -- is providing them free, but limiting the access to them to "members of the club who have paid their dues".
Another way to consider this -- everyone who buys a ticket is not entitled to sit in the executive boxes. Even if the team wanted to allow it, there aren't enough seats for everyone...
In this case, "seats" equates to the bandwidth/server load necessary to deliver an acceptable level of service.
Even if you have the ability to buy executive box seats -- no one is forcing you to... you can buy an end zone seat for a much lower price.
But it is unrealistic to expect when you bought executive boxes last year -- and therefore that entitles you to site in the executive boxes this year (with your end zone ticket).
That's the way of the world with cars, sports, computers, cell phones... you get what you pay for when you buy it.
If you want/need a thing badly enough you will find a way to pay for it.
Exactly, and very well put. But I do believe In some way Apple wants us to Have "executive boxes" but they must maintain a healthy relationship with the carriers, which may lead to complications with data draining features.
Incorrect, it's last years model, notice the lesser space provided then when it was the flagship.
Once again it may be a current model but not the flagship.
Get your facts straight.
Does that mean the 3GS a current model according to your reasoning not 3 years old? It's still quite dated but supported non the less.
The 3GS absolutely IS a current model.
Any device still being manufactured and sold new is by definition a current model. A 3GS bought new today is most certainly NOT 3 years old, it's likely less than 3 weeks old.
This was a Cook decision, not a Jobs decision. You'll recall that Jobs had offered up two things about FaceTime when launching the iPhone 4:
a) FaceTime was going to be open-sourced, freely available to anyone who wanted to integrate Apple's technology, regardless of platform or carrier. (Didn't happen...two years and counting....)
b) The "WiFi-only" restriction was a temporary concession to the carriers by Jobs, not a hardware restriction. (Lots of Jailbroken iPhone 4s have proven this, as well as tethering with a 3G hotspot)
Video from WWDC: (spoiler: "Wi-Fi only in 2010")
Translation: The iPhone 4S is making Apple money, legacy users are not.
Conclusion: We can expect this to be par for the course going forward with Apple under the Cook administration.
I wasn't referring to the 3GS, I was referring to the iPhone 4, which is also still available to buy.
It's one thing for these devices to be technically inferior in some ways (speed, camera quality etc) but another to artificially restrict features (like Face Time and Siri) for no rational reason, other than a nod to the carriers to restrict data on their networks.
Quite honestly, AI needs to get a bit more objective too in its reporting, rather than being an apologist for every decision Apple makes.
AI isn't horrible.
Some of the fanboi commenters on here most certainly are, though. I've even seen comments complaining about discussions of unreleased products (really, people whining that someone broke their NDA), which is exactly what sites like AI are supposed to be about.
Apple makes some really great stuff. But not everything Apple does is good for us, Apple very frequently makes some really stupid decisions AND ALWAYS HAS, and people here need to understand that.
Any device still being manufactured and sold new is by definition a current model. A 3GS bought new today is most certainly NOT 3 years old, it's likely less than 3 weeks old.
You clearly need to get YOUR facts straight.
Hardware Age is not determined by when it was purchased...are people really dense or what?
Notice the 3GS has not been been changed or updated (other then os) since its unveiling in 2009?
The 3GS is 3+ year old hardware. Period.
Idiotic I swear did you even read what I posted?. Kinda like the chumps going I'm waiting for the iPhone 5...
Comments
Lack of FaceTime over 3G on iP4 is either a pure commercial move, or a way of limiting network traffic to suit the carriers.
It's unlikely to be for technical reasons - FaceTime works fine over 3G on a jailbroken iP4 with the appropriate hacks. Sure, the 4S has better 3G, but is that a reason to limit FaceTime? 3G speeds vary much more across networks and across areas than they do between 4 and 4S.
Not that there's really anything wrong with it as a commercial move. People can complain all they like, but Apple has no obligation to deliver any new features whatsoever to iPhones after they've been bought.
Still not understanding why video Skype works fine over 3G on the 4, but Facetime won't.
Even more important, all this does is make Facetime even less relevant, useful and popular. I use Skype all the time, even when I'm in WiFi, because don't have to change up and back and Facetime brings nothing to the table Skype doesn't give me. I would think Apple would want to push Facetime to as many users as possible to increase the general use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
It doesn't matter when you bought it.
The iPhone 4 is by definition 1 year and 9 months old, not "less than a year." When iOS 6 is out it will be over 2 years old.
(the rest of your post is mindless insults based on zero facts and not worth answering).
The iPhone 4 is a current model. It is not last year's model - it is still sold as a current version.
A current version sold in every official outlet - not in bargain basements.
The consumer does not know or care when it was released. The consumer should know that it is a current line of product, given that it is sold as such.
Incorrect, it's last years model, notice the lesser space provided then when it was the flagship.
Once again it may be a current model but not the flagship.
Get your facts straight.
Does that mean the 3GS a current model according to your reasoning not 3 years old? It's still quite dated but supported non the less.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J
Still not understanding why video Skype works fine over 3G on the 4, but Facetime won't.
Even more important, all this does is make Facetime even less relevant, useful and popular. I use Skype all the time, even when I'm in WiFi, because don't have to change up and back and Facetime brings nothing to the table Skype doesn't give me. I would think Apple would want to push Facetime to as many users as possible to increase the general use.
FaceTime and Skype aren't exactly the same in terms of it's technical functions - to some degree Factime is part of the cellular voice system (it does video over voice) - skype is just pure data through and through - they even have their own account system for voice phone calls to the telephony network (in fact their entire network is private) - something that Apple lacks since it uses the carrier network - that's why its availability is limited.
While I do believe this is a tactic, I don't believe it's the end all be all with the answer as to why older iPhones won't share in some of these features.
Skype is a NOT a native app on iPhone and there is a huge difference in how this app is viewed visibly by the public and carriers.
When Apple has a keynote with a mass media appeal and subsequent product launch touting these awesome features that are native apps and are extremely beneficial and easy to use, it is a world of difference in how it used and perceived by the public.
When you buy these phones with all the hype and information provided, its bound to be utilized in droves. That shiny new button beckons for it to be touched.
It's like a push button start on a car. It's gonna take a hit.
Skype has to be located downloaded and activated through the user. Also they have to have an individual account.
These difference make just enough separation for it to not be as much of an issue.
I know my dad has used FaceTime as well as my mom. But they show no interest nor have they ever used Skype, even after I had shown them the way.
Don't get me wrong Skype has tons of recognition and users but the app is submitted to apple for approval and a contract exists through them which may provide them with a sort of protection against the cellular networks
I'm sure the networks hate those apps too and wish or plan to do something about it int the future such as metered plans and doing away with unlimited data plans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash_beezy
WUT? Most of the 4S user's I know have grandfathered data plans along with myself and my wife's phone...upgrading to the new phone would not change your plan..just your contract term length.
Never let reality get into the way of a good theory.
Major difference with the Android updates and the Apple updates, Google update their core applications quite often, regardless of OS update, while Apple will generally wait for an OS update to do the same
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka
**** you Apple. My iPhone 4 is less than a year old, and you're trying to coerce me into buying new one already? Why, so you can put some random limit on that phone to drive sales of the next one in another couple of months?. It's my data plan, stop arbitrarily telling me what I can use it for. Enough with the 50mb app store dowload limits too, assholes.
Although iPhone 4 is a two year old phone (June 2010 release). The iPhone 4 did basically get all of iOS5 excepting Siri. That said, I do think that this iOS strategy is quite a bit more severe than it need be, and has ever been because previously it was about hardware limitation on legacy models, and now it's about software and data usage and hardware. FaceTime on 3G should be on iPhone 4, likewise turn by turn, and everything else software related. The rest I could understand.
The thing with FaceTime is that sometime in the not too distant future, most if not all people will be on a Siri capable model and more (especially now Apple are keen for you to do so by limiting a bunch of the great stuff to the 4S), so the networks asking Apple to limit the phone to one model doesn't make sense to me. It feels more like an Apple decision to me, I mean they're not going to impose FaceTime 3G limits on the whole world because some US carriers don't like the idea of the data usage hike on their networks in their country. All countries and networks are different. Why would they do this? Just a new push to get the user to upgrade. I'm upgrading to the iPhone 5 anyway, but there are going to be some annoyed loyal people because of stuff like this because the need to upgrade hardware to benefit the software hasn't been imposed so harshly before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook
I wasn't referring to the 3GS, I was referring to the iPhone 4, which is also still available to buy.
But that was your point.
Quote:
…artificially restrict features (like Face Time and Siri) for no rational reason…
You're certain of this?
Yes it was my point, and I think it's valid.
As for my certainty, it might depend on one's definition of rational, however Apple have a happy habit of killing compatibility very early and it's often not for good reasons. Is there really any reason Logic 8 shouldn't have worked on Lion, especially given if you bypass the package shortcut it actually does. Is there any reason Facetime, iMessage or even iCloud can't work on 32-bit Intel Macs? Apple seems to support WindowsXP better than it supports Snow Leopard. Is there any reason the iPad 2 cannot have dictation, given it has exactly the same CPU and audio processing capabilities as the New iPad? Why can't a 2.26ghz Mac Mini with a 9400m playback iTunes 1080p smoothly, when Windows machines with much lower CPU speeds can (it's because they can't be arsed to write efficient hardware decode drivers). Again, XP gets better support than OS X here.
Again, I don't know why AI isn't a little more discerning in its critical outlook of Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alandail
There are technical reasons - here is the reason for Siri - there is new hardware built into the A5 that is specifically to support Siri. Apple won't release as substandard implementation on devices that don't have this hardware.
http://article-interlingual.blogspot.com/2012/02/iphone-4s-has-special-noise-reduction.html
Everyone says this so I'm going to have to throw it out:
Both the iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S have earSmart (albiet different generations) and both are designed for wide fields of noise cancelation - the 4S's introduction of the updated generation of earSmart is merely an incremental upgrade. People who are willing to do their research can find documents with this information in it.
Also, don't bump it until you've tried it, dudes and dudette, Siri on an iPhone 4 and don't have problems over here.
For everything else that's missing, looks like I'll be continuing jailbreaking with iOS6 until I get get the cash for the next iPhone upgrade. Bummer.
Exactly, and very well put. But I do believe In some way Apple wants us to Have "executive boxes" but they must maintain a healthy relationship with the carriers, which may lead to complications with data draining features.
Nice post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash_beezy
Incorrect, it's last years model, notice the lesser space provided then when it was the flagship.
Once again it may be a current model but not the flagship.
Get your facts straight.
Does that mean the 3GS a current model according to your reasoning not 3 years old? It's still quite dated but supported non the less.
The 3GS absolutely IS a current model.
Any device still being manufactured and sold new is by definition a current model. A 3GS bought new today is most certainly NOT 3 years old, it's likely less than 3 weeks old.
You clearly need to get YOUR facts straight.
I thought there was a radio difference between the 4 and 4S ? No?
This was a Cook decision, not a Jobs decision. You'll recall that Jobs had offered up two things about FaceTime when launching the iPhone 4:
a) FaceTime was going to be open-sourced, freely available to anyone who wanted to integrate Apple's technology, regardless of platform or carrier. (Didn't happen...two years and counting....)
b) The "WiFi-only" restriction was a temporary concession to the carriers by Jobs, not a hardware restriction. (Lots of Jailbroken iPhone 4s have proven this, as well as tethering with a 3G hotspot)
Video from WWDC:
Translation: The iPhone 4S is making Apple money, legacy users are not.
Conclusion: We can expect this to be par for the course going forward with Apple under the Cook administration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook
I wasn't referring to the 3GS, I was referring to the iPhone 4, which is also still available to buy.
It's one thing for these devices to be technically inferior in some ways (speed, camera quality etc) but another to artificially restrict features (like Face Time and Siri) for no rational reason, other than a nod to the carriers to restrict data on their networks.
Quite honestly, AI needs to get a bit more objective too in its reporting, rather than being an apologist for every decision Apple makes.
AI isn't horrible.
Some of the fanboi commenters on here most certainly are, though. I've even seen comments complaining about discussions of unreleased products (really, people whining that someone broke their NDA), which is exactly what sites like AI are supposed to be about.
Apple makes some really great stuff. But not everything Apple does is good for us, Apple very frequently makes some really stupid decisions AND ALWAYS HAS, and people here need to understand that.
Hardware Age is not determined by when it was purchased...are people really dense or what?
Notice the 3GS has not been been changed or updated (other then os) since its unveiling in 2009?
The 3GS is 3+ year old hardware. Period.
Idiotic I swear did you even read what I posted?. Kinda like the chumps going I'm waiting for the iPhone 5...
There is. Hspa+ support