I find it funny that you think you can say that seriously or objectively.
I say it factually. Based on the posts of yours I read, the judges win hands down. Regardless, Apple is losing cases at a record pace which shows Apple can no longer innovate so the litigate. The ones they win, equate into nothing, a simple patch, all is well.
Samsung will always win in number of units sold because they make like 300 kinds of phones. No joke. This is fact.
But who has more $$$ in the bank? after all it all comes down to who has more $$$ at the end. Sooner than later, Samsung will be overtaken by the Chinese companies. Unless Samsung improves brand power and develops loyal customer base, they will be screwed big time. Korea is good at manufacturing hardware but lacks creativity to develop software. That is the sad truth.
What end is that? Does not having the bank account of a CEO or superstar athlete mean they're better than you? Samsung will do just fine without selling as many phones as Apple does just as I and/or you do fine without a 7-8 figure salary.
Anecdotal and speculative but that's all we ever really get. especially if we aren't going to believe any legal documents from companies about sales. This article from a just a few weeks shows that Samsung is selling the Galaxy S II well in the US, even beating out popular iPhone models. This article states that the Samsung S III the most popular smartphone in the UK, at least out of the gate. Considering it's the successor to the S II, looks like a solid device, has had several weeks of sales in about 30 countries that all seems like enough to state that 6 million units sold is very likely. I guess there could be global conspiracy at work but I think it would just be easier to sell 6 million phones.
I would not be surprised that Samsung Top Line Phone is getting close to being the Number 3 or 2 phone in the US or global markets (potentially knocking out the iPhone 4 out of the top 3)... They are the 'only other competitor' of note, they have a reasonably profitable smart phone line, and they are getting good press.
And I do think there is a market for 'big screen' phones. My eyes aren't bad, but I'm at the age of bifocals, and I can only imagine people needing bigger brighter screens. Of course, there are people (men;-) who need to 'compensate' with big toys;-)
Yes, I do. Pretty much everyone I know with Android phones were talked into them by someone at a carrier store or kiosk. None of them are rooting them. The feelings in comparing it to the iPhone are mixed. Some are smart enough to know they were duped while others have sour grape responses about how they can do this or that, but when I ask them to show me this or that it turns out that it's too hard or they only heard/read about it's possible. Fact is, the only people I know with Android phones that have rooted them or code from them are developers who use an iPhone (and one a Lumia 900) as their everyday phone.
So your 6 friends equals the world? You think highly of yourself. Ok, if that is the case, all the people I know, 7, bought their Android phones after giving up their iPhone 4S's because they hated them. See, anyone can do it.
Well, they are winning lawsuits all over the world against Apple. Samsung has defended more lawsuits from Apple than Apple has won against them so apparently judges, far smarter than you, feel differently. Apple can only regurgitate so long, Apples motivation and design smarts died with Steve-o, Samsung and other manufactures are leaving them in the dust. Apple will be able to ride the Steve-o wave but not forever and Androids market share shows it.
Really? Why not show us all the lawsuits that Samsung has won. There have been a number of injunctions against Samsung products. Is that a 'win' for Samsung in your mind?
From the April results, stated by Tim Cook:
<span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana, arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;line-height:20px;">"We ended the quarter with about 8.6 million iPhones in channel inventory, a sequential increase of about 2.6 million units, which placed us within our target range of 4 to 6 weeks of iPhone channel inventory."</span>
<span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana, arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;line-height:20px;">"We ended the quarter with about 2 million iPads in channel inventory, a sequential decrease of about 300,000 units, which placed us below our target range of 4 to 6 weeks of iPad channel inventory."</span>
OK. So do the math. Apple shipped 35.1 M iPhones in the Jan-Mar quarter. Channel inventory increased by 2.6 M. so that means that 32.6 M got into consumers' hands.
Samsung shipped 6.5 M SIII phones. They started with zero in inventory and presumably ended with at least some in inventory. So some number less than 6.5 M got into consumers' hands.
So explain again how the SIII is killing the iPhone?
That is why Samsung is the largest cellphone maker in the world. Apple iPhone 5 is late to the market, while Samsung will have sold 30 million Galaxy 3 phones by then.
And Apple will have clocked up around 120 million iPhones by then, what's your point?
Really? Why not show us all the lawsuits that Samsung has won. There have been a number of injunctions against Samsung products. Is that a 'win' for Samsung in your mind?
If you successfully defend your case than that is a win. Samsung isnt lawsuit happy as Apple is, they are simply defending and have defended very well around the world against Apple. These injunctions, simple software patch and or simple "color" add and they are back up and running and Apple gained ZERO. Yes those are wins.
You shun the success of a competitor company to defend your Apple fanboy cockiness. The Samsung S3 is a great phone and is selling very well, leave it at that. It is an Apple competitor, but not on the scale that Apple sells the iPhone. It cannot go head to head with them, but will certainly take away people from the aging iPhone.
Samsung is going to get a serious butt-hurt when the next iPhone arrives especially with the price drops of the iPhone 4 (likely $0 on contract) and iPhone 4S. Apple will definitely move 40 million new model iPhones by the end of the year. With China on board, the sky's the limit. I'm definitely pumping fanboi cockiness with a capital "C". Time to crow...
Since Samsung stated that 6.5 million "shipped", one could assume that the other 2.5 million have simply not shipped yet. Considering that the SIII is just now finally rolling out to many of the US carriers, this does not seem like an outrageous assumption.
You actually believe people are buying the SIII and do not want it? that somehow the carriers can convince someone, with ease, to drop $249 on a phone? Wow.
I know of 3 people that pre ordered it simply because vzw was changing data plans.
You actually believe people are buying the SIII and do not want it? that somehow the carriers can convince someone, with ease, to drop $249 on a phone? Wow.
Probably got one of the lower end "free" models, Galaxy Y, Fit, Ace if Samsung or Huawei, Pantech, one of Chinese companies that will roll Samsung in a race to the bottom.
Uh uh... you may need to figure out what "revenue recognition" means.
I keep asking but you guys never seem to provide specific cites from the company. I truly would love to see their numbers. Mind you, I am not saying at all that there is zer probability that they could be selling as much -- it's just that I am skeptical, since I've never seen audited numbers. The fact that they're not providing it suggests to me that they are hiding something. Please prove me wrong. Seriously. I don't mind.
I know what "revenue recognition" means.
However... the comment I was replying to was claiming that Samsung's products just sit in a warehouse... and they only get purchased by consumers after the price gets slashed.
That was what I was referring to.
There is this huge debate of "shipped vs sold" on these forums... and I don't know why.
Samsung has been selling mobile phones for decades... don't you think they know how many to produce to not have a bunch of stock leftover?
Factories make the phones... carriers have the phones in their stores... and customers take them home. I'm sick of the ignorance of people who say products are hung up somewhere in those first 2 stages...
Carrier stores have such limited stock in the first place... I can't imagine a store would still have any Q1 stock hanging around today. For the more popular phones... carrier stores don't have any in stock. You must order them. In that case... your new phone skips the carrier store inventory altogether and goes straight to your home.
I agree with you... I would love to have some more solid data about Samsung's numbers. But at the same time... Samsung keeps producing phones every quarter so someone must be buying them, right? Why would Samsung put more products into the channel if the previous supply hasn't moved? Why would any company?
We haven't heard about millions of phones shipped back to Samsung to be ground up and recycled... have we?
Samsung is going to get a serious butt-hurt when the next iPhone arrives especially with the price drops of the iPhone 4 (likely $0 on contract) and iPhone 4S. Apple will definitely move 40 million new model iPhones by the end of the year. With China on board, the sky's the limit. I'm definitely pumping fanboi cockiness with a capital "C". Time to crow...
I like to believe you, but I do think that the it's not so much the desire to have a 0.99 iPhone 4, but the simple fact that 4% of all phones on contract fall off contract every month... They'll buy what every .99 cent phone that fits their need. I do think the 3GS was one of the nicest ones, and the 4 will be pretty good, but the Galaxy II will be dropping in price, and all the others, nothing is for certain.
In time, all the phones will be the same basic chunk of silicon and glass... it's the ecosystem that matters. Apple is 'one' ecosystem. Every android phone out there is 3 (carrier, OEM, google). That I think will win the masses. Nerds will get the 'perfect' phone... but most people want 'something that works as well as... <insert neighbor/brother-in-law/workmate>'s phone.' Apple Phones are 'safe' much like buying a Dell in the late nineties 'was safe.'
In all this hooting and hollering... you know what we're not hearing... All the WinPhone8 'winners' who will be 'number 2' in the Great Phone race by 2015.
Well, they are winning lawsuits all over the world against Apple. Samsung has defended more lawsuits from Apple than Apple has won against them so apparently judges, far smarter than you, feel differently. Apple can only regurgitate so long, Apples motivation and design smarts died with Steve-o, Samsung and other manufactures are leaving them in the dust. Apple will be able to ride the Steve-o wave but not forever and Androids market share shows it.
I think he was referring more to the convictions for price fixing of LCD panels, the ex-CEO being involved in bribery which was overturned by his mates in government, the 120 or so Samsung factory workers dying of Leukemia and other cancers who aren't being paid any compensation because Samsung got the laws changed.
OK. So do the math. Apple shipped 35.1 M iPhones in the Jan-Mar quarter. Channel inventory increased by 2.6 M. so that means that 32.6 M got into consumers' hands.
Samsung shipped 6.5 M SIII phones. They started with zero in inventory and presumably ended with at least some in inventory. So some number less than 6.5 M got into consumers' hands.
So explain again how the SIII is killing the iPhone?
I love your math. You say Apple shipped 35.1M iphones vs Samsung's 6.5M S3.
Do you see any problem with this statement? If not, let me point out that 35.1M iPhone 4S's did not ship. If you want to lump all iphone shipments together, than you must lump all Samsung phones together, in which case Samsung is killing the iPhone. Not to mention the S3 was only available for less than half the quarter. Iphone shipments include the 3gs, iphone 4 AND iphone 4S.
This is like comparing all Android sales to iphone sales. Stupid logic to justify your loyalty to a particular OS or company. Of course the Android OS has more phones in circulation, because there are several companies making several phones running the OS compared to just Apple producing 3 phones.
As for the S3 sales, most of that 6.5M sales were pre-orders. Not to mention a week delay in Canada and a couple of days delay in shipping pre-orders to US customers, simply because Samsung could not produce enough phones! Kind of tough to say people were forced into buying these phones.
Ahh, but don't let me stop all you guys from whining and trying to defend Apple's iphone. It's enjoyable reading.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I find it funny that you think you can say that seriously or objectively.
I say it factually. Based on the posts of yours I read, the judges win hands down. Regardless, Apple is losing cases at a record pace which shows Apple can no longer innovate so the litigate. The ones they win, equate into nothing, a simple patch, all is well.
What end is that? Does not having the bank account of a CEO or superstar athlete mean they're better than you? Samsung will do just fine without selling as many phones as Apple does just as I and/or you do fine without a 7-8 figure salary.
Since Mike Daisey hasn't done a play about it must all be well above Foxconn in every way¡
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Anecdotal and speculative but that's all we ever really get. especially if we aren't going to believe any legal documents from companies about sales. This article from a just a few weeks shows that Samsung is selling the Galaxy S II well in the US, even beating out popular iPhone models. This article states that the Samsung S III the most popular smartphone in the UK, at least out of the gate. Considering it's the successor to the S II, looks like a solid device, has had several weeks of sales in about 30 countries that all seems like enough to state that 6 million units sold is very likely. I guess there could be global conspiracy at work but I think it would just be easier to sell 6 million phones.
I would not be surprised that Samsung Top Line Phone is getting close to being the Number 3 or 2 phone in the US or global markets (potentially knocking out the iPhone 4 out of the top 3)... They are the 'only other competitor' of note, they have a reasonably profitable smart phone line, and they are getting good press.
And I do think there is a market for 'big screen' phones. My eyes aren't bad, but I'm at the age of bifocals, and I can only imagine people needing bigger brighter screens. Of course, there are people (men;-) who need to 'compensate' with big toys;-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Yes, I do. Pretty much everyone I know with Android phones were talked into them by someone at a carrier store or kiosk. None of them are rooting them. The feelings in comparing it to the iPhone are mixed. Some are smart enough to know they were duped while others have sour grape responses about how they can do this or that, but when I ask them to show me this or that it turns out that it's too hard or they only heard/read about it's possible. Fact is, the only people I know with Android phones that have rooted them or code from them are developers who use an iPhone (and one a Lumia 900) as their everyday phone.
So your 6 friends equals the world? You think highly of yourself. Ok, if that is the case, all the people I know, 7, bought their Android phones after giving up their iPhone 4S's because they hated them. See, anyone can do it.
Really? Why not show us all the lawsuits that Samsung has won. There have been a number of injunctions against Samsung products. Is that a 'win' for Samsung in your mind?
OK. So do the math. Apple shipped 35.1 M iPhones in the Jan-Mar quarter. Channel inventory increased by 2.6 M. so that means that 32.6 M got into consumers' hands.
Samsung shipped 6.5 M SIII phones. They started with zero in inventory and presumably ended with at least some in inventory. So some number less than 6.5 M got into consumers' hands.
So explain again how the SIII is killing the iPhone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Can you provide us a cite, or cut and paste an example from Samsung's audited financials?
2.19 Revenue recognition
Revenue comprises the fair value of the consideration received or receivable for the sale of goods and
services in the ordinary course of the Company’s activities. Revenue is shown net of value-added tax,
returns, rebates and discounts and after eliminating sales within the Company.
The Company recognizes revenue when specific recognition criteria have been met for each of the
Company’s activities as described below....
(a) Sales of goods
Sales of products and merchandise are recognized upon delivery when the significant risks and rewards of
ownership of goods have transferred to the buyer, continuing managerial involvement usually associated
with ownership and effective control have ceased, the amount of revenue can be measured reliably, it is
probable that the economic benefits associated with the transaction will flow to the Company and the costs
incurred or to be incurred in respect of the transaction can be measured reliably. The Company records
reductions to revenue for special pricing arrangements, price protection and other volume based discounts. If
product sales are subject to customer acceptance, revenue is not recognized until customer acceptance
occurs.
http://www.samsung.com/us/aboutsamsung/ir/financialinformation/auditedfinancialstatements/downloads/parent/2010_quarter04_note.pdf
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
So explain again how the SIII is killing the iPhone?
Explain who said it is killing the iPhone?
And Apple will have clocked up around 120 million iPhones by then, what's your point?
Two months ago we were told that there were 9 million pre-orders:
http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/18/3028051/samsung-galaxy-s-iii-9-million-pre-orders
What happened to the remaining 2.5 million units?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Really? Why not show us all the lawsuits that Samsung has won. There have been a number of injunctions against Samsung products. Is that a 'win' for Samsung in your mind?
If you successfully defend your case than that is a win. Samsung isnt lawsuit happy as Apple is, they are simply defending and have defended very well around the world against Apple. These injunctions, simple software patch and or simple "color" add and they are back up and running and Apple gained ZERO. Yes those are wins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mostcallmerob
You shun the success of a competitor company to defend your Apple fanboy cockiness. The Samsung S3 is a great phone and is selling very well, leave it at that. It is an Apple competitor, but not on the scale that Apple sells the iPhone. It cannot go head to head with them, but will certainly take away people from the aging iPhone.
Samsung is going to get a serious butt-hurt when the next iPhone arrives especially with the price drops of the iPhone 4 (likely $0 on contract) and iPhone 4S. Apple will definitely move 40 million new model iPhones by the end of the year. With China on board, the sky's the limit. I'm definitely pumping fanboi cockiness with a capital "C". Time to crow...
Quote:
Originally Posted by odyssey3001
Two months ago we were told that there were 9 million pre-orders:
http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/18/3028051/samsung-galaxy-s-iii-9-million-pre-orders
What happened to the remaining 2.5 million units?
Since Samsung stated that 6.5 million "shipped", one could assume that the other 2.5 million have simply not shipped yet. Considering that the SIII is just now finally rolling out to many of the US carriers, this does not seem like an outrageous assumption.
I know of 3 people that pre ordered it simply because vzw was changing data plans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
So explain again how the SIII is killing the iPhone?
Who said they were? Now you're dragging out another strawman.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool
You actually believe people are buying the SIII and do not want it? that somehow the carriers can convince someone, with ease, to drop $249 on a phone? Wow.
Probably got one of the lower end "free" models, Galaxy Y, Fit, Ace if Samsung or Huawei, Pantech, one of Chinese companies that will roll Samsung in a race to the bottom.
I know what "revenue recognition" means.
However... the comment I was replying to was claiming that Samsung's products just sit in a warehouse... and they only get purchased by consumers after the price gets slashed.
That was what I was referring to.
There is this huge debate of "shipped vs sold" on these forums... and I don't know why.
Samsung has been selling mobile phones for decades... don't you think they know how many to produce to not have a bunch of stock leftover?
Factories make the phones... carriers have the phones in their stores... and customers take them home. I'm sick of the ignorance of people who say products are hung up somewhere in those first 2 stages...
Carrier stores have such limited stock in the first place... I can't imagine a store would still have any Q1 stock hanging around today. For the more popular phones... carrier stores don't have any in stock. You must order them. In that case... your new phone skips the carrier store inventory altogether and goes straight to your home.
I agree with you... I would love to have some more solid data about Samsung's numbers. But at the same time... Samsung keeps producing phones every quarter so someone must be buying them, right? Why would Samsung put more products into the channel if the previous supply hasn't moved? Why would any company?
We haven't heard about millions of phones shipped back to Samsung to be ground up and recycled... have we?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo
Samsung is going to get a serious butt-hurt when the next iPhone arrives especially with the price drops of the iPhone 4 (likely $0 on contract) and iPhone 4S. Apple will definitely move 40 million new model iPhones by the end of the year. With China on board, the sky's the limit. I'm definitely pumping fanboi cockiness with a capital "C". Time to crow...
I like to believe you, but I do think that the it's not so much the desire to have a 0.99 iPhone 4, but the simple fact that 4% of all phones on contract fall off contract every month... They'll buy what every .99 cent phone that fits their need. I do think the 3GS was one of the nicest ones, and the 4 will be pretty good, but the Galaxy II will be dropping in price, and all the others, nothing is for certain.
In time, all the phones will be the same basic chunk of silicon and glass... it's the ecosystem that matters. Apple is 'one' ecosystem. Every android phone out there is 3 (carrier, OEM, google). That I think will win the masses. Nerds will get the 'perfect' phone... but most people want 'something that works as well as... <insert neighbor/brother-in-law/workmate>'s phone.' Apple Phones are 'safe' much like buying a Dell in the late nineties 'was safe.'
In all this hooting and hollering... you know what we're not hearing... All the WinPhone8 'winners' who will be 'number 2' in the Great Phone race by 2015.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool
Well, they are winning lawsuits all over the world against Apple. Samsung has defended more lawsuits from Apple than Apple has won against them so apparently judges, far smarter than you, feel differently. Apple can only regurgitate so long, Apples motivation and design smarts died with Steve-o, Samsung and other manufactures are leaving them in the dust. Apple will be able to ride the Steve-o wave but not forever and Androids market share shows it.
I think he was referring more to the convictions for price fixing of LCD panels, the ex-CEO being involved in bribery which was overturned by his mates in government, the 120 or so Samsung factory workers dying of Leukemia and other cancers who aren't being paid any compensation because Samsung got the laws changed.
Those lawsuits Samsung is "winning"?
Do you see any problem with this statement? If not, let me point out that 35.1M iPhone 4S's did not ship. If you want to lump all iphone shipments together, than you must lump all Samsung phones together, in which case Samsung is killing the iPhone. Not to mention the S3 was only available for less than half the quarter. Iphone shipments include the 3gs, iphone 4 AND iphone 4S.
This is like comparing all Android sales to iphone sales. Stupid logic to justify your loyalty to a particular OS or company. Of course the Android OS has more phones in circulation, because there are several companies making several phones running the OS compared to just Apple producing 3 phones.
As for the S3 sales, most of that 6.5M sales were pre-orders. Not to mention a week delay in Canada and a couple of days delay in shipping pre-orders to US customers, simply because Samsung could not produce enough phones! Kind of tough to say people were forced into buying these phones.
Ahh, but don't let me stop all you guys from whining and trying to defend Apple's iphone. It's enjoyable reading.