Jury likely to decide Apple and Samsung case as parties fail to narrow dispute

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  • Reply 141 of 179
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    mstone wrote: »
    That is a nice story however it ignores the actual history. The Spanish missions were built from the late 1760s through around 1830 at which time only the Spanish missionaries spoke Spanish and gave places their names. The native population did not speak Spanish but rather indigenous languages. The immigration of Spanish speaking immigrants from Mexico did not start until after 1910 due to the turmoil of the Mexican revolution. At that time California was already a state and the indigenous population had been given ownership of territories. Before that time there were only a few areas of the southwest that were very sparely populated by Spanish speakers. That early 1900s immigration can not compare to the influx of Spanish speaking immigrants into the US in more recent times, For example the Spanish speaking population in the US has doubled since 1990. It is these immigrants to which I referred as being gathered together into segregated communities and not integrating.

    It's easier for a Spanish speaking immigrant not have a need to integrate, because in certain states no matter where they go they'll most likely find a Spanish speaking person to assist them.
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  • Reply 142 of 179
    galbigalbi Posts: 968member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


     


    I don't know about a hung jury. It's not an "all or nothing" affair. Every item must be decided separately... right?



     


    Nope, its an all or nothing.


     


    The jury needs to be unanimous.

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  • Reply 143 of 179
    galbigalbi Posts: 968member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ewan View Post


    You guys need to understand that people of different cultures always stick together, no matter what. If I killed someone and it was on video but the judge was of the same culture, I guarantee 100% he'd find me not guilty. It seems that Europeans don't have the same loyalties to their fellow immigrants, doesn't mean others don't.


     


    Judge Koh is and will forever be in favour of Samsung because it is from her native land, if you don't want to believe it then that's your problem.



     


    And your bigotry doesnt necessarily mean that Judge Koh will favor Samsung.


     


    You've just contradicted yourself and left open a wide gap in your logic.


     


    You logic is faulty. Please try again....with a different account name (preferably with a different ip address)

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  • Reply 144 of 179
    I am much more interested in debating the merits of Apple's patents. Putting aside whether or not the things they've brought Samsung to trial over are patentable under the current system I do not think they should be patentable. They're just too fundamental.
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  • Reply 145 of 179
    mstone wrote: »
    That is a nice story however it ignores the actual history. The Spanish missions were built from the late 1760s through around 1830 at which time only the Spanish missionaries spoke Spanish and gave places their names. The native population did not speak Spanish but rather indigenous languages. The immigration of Spanish speaking immigrants from Mexico did not start until after 1910 due to the turmoil of the Mexican revolution. At that time California was already a state and the indigenous population had been given ownership of territories. Before that time there were only a few areas of the southwest that were very sparely populated by Spanish speakers. That early 1900s immigration can not compare to the influx of Spanish speaking immigrants into the US in more recent times, For example the Spanish speaking population in the US has doubled since 1990. It is these immigrants to which I referred as being gathered together into segregated communities and not integrating.
    That's California, think Texas instead. Both Spain and later Mexico encouraged colonization of what is now Texas as a buffer from American expansion. While many empresarios brought European and American colonies, there was significant Mexican emmigration as well and they received preferential treatment in land grants.
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  • Reply 146 of 179
    dasanman69 wrote: »
    There were phones before the LG Chocolate that were referred to as "candy bar" form factor. The Moto SLVR was the first I'd heard but it started even before then.
    You are way too serious, read it again slowly and think about it, he was making a joke. I will admit my first reaction was the same as yours though, until I asked myself, "of all the phones why did he pick that one?"
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  • Reply 147 of 179

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Samson Corwell View Post



    I am much more interested in debating the merits of Apple's patents. Putting aside whether or not the things they've brought Samsung to trial over are patentable under the current system I do not think they should be patentable. They're just too fundamental.


     


    They're only `fundamental' because Apple's implementation and success with them have made them seem fundamental.

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  • Reply 148 of 179
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


     


    They're only `fundamental' because Apple's implementation and success with them have made them seem fundamental.



    That is a complete load of crap. Pick whichever one you wish to address. They make some cool stuff with many of these concepts, but virtually none of those concepts were actually invented by Apple. I find their products work just as well  without the RDF :).

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  • Reply 149 of 179
    sennensennen Posts: 1,472member


     


    Quote:


    They're only `fundamental' because Apple's implementation and success with them have made them seem fundamental.



     


    Exactly. Most of you will know where I picked this from, perhaps GTR in particular:


     


    “The more original a discovery the more obvious it seems afterward.” — Arthur Koestler in The Act of Creation, 1964.

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  • Reply 150 of 179
    sennensennen Posts: 1,472member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hmm View Post


    That is a complete load of crap. Pick whichever one you wish to address. They make some cool stuff with many of these concepts, but virtually none of those concepts were actually invented by Apple. I find their products work just as well  without the RDF :).



     


    Idea vs implementation...

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  • Reply 151 of 179

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Galbi View Post


     


    Nope, its an all or nothing.


     


    The jury needs to be unanimous.



     


    Not quite. The jury needs to be unanimous, but the case will be broken down into multiple parts. So the jury could be unanimous in finding Samsung guilty in one patent, not-guilty on another patent and hung on still another patent.

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  • Reply 152 of 179
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sennen View Post


     


    Idea vs implementation...





    Did you note the context?

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  • Reply 153 of 179
    sennensennen Posts: 1,472member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hmm View Post




    Did you note the context?



    Yes.

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  • Reply 154 of 179

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post





    Just curious - how do you manage to survive in junior high without getting beat to a pulp for being a loud-mouthed, obnoxious bigot?




    He is still in high school

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  • Reply 155 of 179
    fracfrac Posts: 480member
    Did no one else read the respective jury forms?
    Apple uses simple language.
    Samsung uses legalese with repetition of the various sections of Samsung with lots of and/or qualifiers aiming to frustrate the jury members with too many choices to keep in mind when decision making.
    Same old Samsung tactics.
    Deception, prevarication, confusion and dissembling.
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  • Reply 156 of 179
    umrk_labumrk_lab Posts: 550member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post





    Technically, it's not racism because "Korean" isn't a race. It's more akin to bigotry.


     


    Careful with this argument. According to genetics, races do not exist within human species (they did, at some point in time, with the co-existence of several distinct human races (neanderthal & homo erectus (and possibly others, the picture becomes more and more complicated). This does not imply that nobody can rightfully be considered as racist ...

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  • Reply 157 of 179
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    muppetry wrote: »
    I noticed also, from his spelling, that he is not American - or at least wasn't educated in the US.

    As many of the posters demonstrate on a daily basis, it is possible to be American and go to school in the US and still not be educated.
    galbi wrote: »
    Nope, its an all or nothing.

    The jury needs to be unanimous.

    Maybe.

    First, in civil cases, juries do not need to be unanimous:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juries
    "As of 1999 over thirty states had laws allowing less than unanimity in civil cases,"
    Don't assume that it needs to be unanimous.

    However, CA is split. State courts only require 3/4 of the jurors to find someone guilty. Federal courts require unanimous decision in civil cases:
    http://www.lawguru.com/legal-questions/california-constitutional-law/jurors-win-civil-court-case-690122453/a

    The more important factor, though, is that the jury will not simply find Samsung guilty or not guilty once. There are many different charges and it is not uncommon for someone to be guilty for some charges, but not others. Therefore, it is NOT 'all or nothing'.
    umrk_lab wrote: »
    Careful with this argument. According to genetics, races do not exist within human species (they did, at some point in time, with the co-existence of several distinct human races (neanderthal & homo erectus (and possibly others, the picture becomes more and more complicated). This does not imply that nobody can rightfully be considered as racist ...

    Incorrect. By standard biology definitions, there are three races: Mongoloid, Caucasoid and Negroid (some sites add a fourth for Australian natives).
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  • Reply 158 of 179
    umrk_labumrk_lab Posts: 550member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post



    Incorrect. By standard biology definitions, there are three races: Mongoloid, Caucasoid and Negroid (some sites add a fourth for Australian natives).


     


     


    No. Although we enter into linguistic debate (but words do matter, especially in this case ..). What you call "races" are cross fecund, which is one important criteria (but not the only one). In fact geneticians are amazed by the astonishing low genetics diversity among human populations. This can only be explained by the fact that the entire present human population derives from a relatively small initial tribe (a few thousands, may be just a few hundreds of individuals) which are the only ones who managed (somewhat miraculously) to survive to the last ice age/period.


     


    (edit) : do not confuse phenotype and genotype ...

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  • Reply 159 of 179
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,771member


    Pretty surprisingly Samsung was successful in getting Judge Koh to issue jury instructions that BOTH Apple and Samsung destroyed evidence that might be helpful to the other party. In essence it nullifies any advantage that Apple thought they might get from adverse instructions targeting Samsung only.


     


    http://www.fosspatents.com/2012/08/samsung-successfully-neutralizes.html


     


    Unless things change again today, this is what jurors will be told about Samsung and destruction of evidence:


    "Samsung Electronics Company has failed to preserve evidence for Apple's use in this litigation after Samsung Electronics Company's duty to preserve arose. Whether this fact is important to you in reaching a verdict in this case is for you to decide."


     


    and what they'll be told about Apple and destruction of evidence:


    "Apple has failed to preserve evidence for Samsung's use in this litigation after Apple's duty to preserve arose. Whether this fact is important to you in reaching a verdict in this case is for you to decide."

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  • Reply 160 of 179
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    gatorguy wrote: »
    Pretty surprisingly Samsung was successful in getting Judge Koh to issue jury instructions that BOTH Apple and Samsung destroyed evidence that might be helpful to the other party. In essence it nullifies any advantage that Apple thought they might get from adverse instructions targeting Samsung only.

    http://www.fosspatents.com/2012/08/samsung-successfully-neutralizes.html

    Unless things change again today, this is what jurors will be told about Samsung and destruction of evidence:
    <span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Georgia, serif;line-height:16.883333206176758px;">"Samsung Electronics Company has failed to preserve evidence for Apple's use in this litigation after Samsung Electronics Company's duty to preserve arose. Whether this fact is important to you in reaching a verdict in this case is for you to decide."</span>


    <span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Georgia, serif;line-height:16.883333206176758px;">and what they'll be told about Apple and destruction of evidence:</span>

    <span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Georgia, serif;line-height:16.883333206176758px;">"Apple has failed to preserve evidence for Samsung's use in this litigation after Apple's duty to preserve arose. Whether this fact is important to you in reaching a verdict in this case is for you to decide."</span>

    If Apple loses, this is plenty of grounds for appeal.

    Samsung failed to show any relevance or a single example of destroyed evidence. Apple showed plenty of examples of where evidence that was destroyed would have been relevant.
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