'iPad mini' will be challengingly thin thanks to 'GF2' technology

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  • Reply 101 of 121


    Originally Posted by morrolan View Post

    #46: Steve Jobs would never have allowed Apple to do anything that it has done posthumously.


     


    Hey, kudos. image


     


    But given that we have a quotation stating exactly this, I'm pretty sure it's okay to say it.

  • Reply 102 of 121
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post



    How could anyone possibly believe the next model will be the "iPhone 5"?


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    I've been saying that this is the year of discontinuation for three years.


     


    ...




    That's why I don't see the iPad mini being a good product and why I initially didn't believe they'd ever do it (they wouldn't have ever done it under Steve).



     


    Mmm...strikes me that your track record is on par with many Apple analysts...is that you Gene?  Wait, has Gene been dumb enough yet to pull the "they wouldn't have done it under Steve" line?


     


    There are lots of folks wanting an ipad mini whether due to cost or size or both.  I'm really hoping for a LTE+GPS version.  Small enough to comfortably carry around and even mount but big enough to see.  The iPad mini will fit a booqpad or moleskin case (ipad + paper notepad) much better than the full sized ipad.


     



     


     


    http://www.levenger.com/Paper-322/Folios-521/Moleskine---Digital-Folio-for-iPad-Core-8224.aspx?utm_source=GoogleFeed&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=GoogleFeed&utm_content=All&utm_campaign=GoogleFeed&gclid=CKf0n6TylLMCFU-d4Aod6j0A9Q


     


    The current ones are bulky and not just because of the paper pad but because the device is large while an iPhone sized device too small.  A thinner and smaller iPad could allow a folio pad about the size of a normal moleskin pad only with half the pages replaced by the iPad Mini.


     


    So there's two use cases (car GPS and work folio) where a mini ipad is superior to both the full sized ipad and an iphone like device.  There are plenty more (ebook reader, fits better in a purse, gaming tablet, etc).  

  • Reply 103 of 121


    Originally Posted by nht View Post

    Wait, has Gene been dumb enough yet to pull the "they wouldn't have done it under Steve" line?


     


    So Steve himself saying it isn't proof enough for you. Got it.

  • Reply 104 of 121
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    So Steve himself saying it isn't proof enough for you. Got it.



     


    Eddie Cue:  "I believe there will be a 7-inch market and we should do one. I expressed this to Steve several times since Thanksgiving and he seemed very receptive the last time."


     


    Jason Calacanis: "He looked at me and said, Jason, nobody wants to watch video on their iPod. I looked at him and I was like, but Steve, I'm telling you I do. He goes, you're just a minority, people don't want to watch video, Jason, you're absolutely wrong. He said it so convincingly that I actually thought I was an idiot..."


     


    Tim Cook: "He would flip on something so fast that you would forget that he was the one taking the 180 degree polar [opposite] position the day before...I saw it daily. This is a gift, because things do change, and it takes courage to change."


     


    Steve Jobs: "It doesn’t matter how good or bad the product is, the fact is that people don’t read anymore...Forty percent of the people in the U.S. read one book or less last year. The whole conception is flawed at the top because people don’t read anymore.”


     


    The whole "Steve would never do 7" tablets" meme has already been debunked multiple times.  The guy was a master at misdirection as well as possessed the important ability to change his mind to fit the facts rather than the other way around.  


     


    Other folks seem stuck defending ideas that have already proven to be wrong *cough*iPhone 5*cough*.

  • Reply 105 of 121
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    When I hear of even a single purpose for the device that isn't better served as a proper-sized tablet or on a pocketable screen, I'll think about doing that.



     


    I see that you've reneged on this promise...

  • Reply 106 of 121
    strat09strat09 Posts: 158member


    Any iPad Mini that can be used in a car and use 2 bluetooth headphones at the same time is instantly awesome for road trips. And GF2 technology sounds incredible, so I can't wait till tomorrow.

  • Reply 107 of 121
    strat09strat09 Posts: 158member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


     


    This is an Apple forum. Both Windows and Android are cheap, knockoff OS'es that are liked and used by people who are aesthetically challenged, and in the case of Android, that very often includes economically challenged people too.






     


    LOL. Made my day.

  • Reply 108 of 121


    Originally Posted by nht View Post

    Eddie Cue:  "I believe there will be a 7-inch market and we should do one. I expressed this to Steve several times since Thanksgiving and he seemed very receptive the last time."



     


    I think I'd trust the guy who said it himself rather than someone else claiming something about him. 


     




    The whole "Steve would never do 7" tablets" meme has already been debunked multiple times.




     


    No, it hasn't. If you want to keep pretending that he was lying for "marketing" purposes, feel free. If you want to pretend Apple didn't do all the testing imaginable when making the iPad to know one way or another, feel free. Now that they're supposedly trying to sell one, we still have them on record saying "this size of tablet is worthless for content; they're just inherently bad", so wait for the spin toward that the other way.





    Originally Posted by nht View Post

    I see that you've reneged on this promise...


     


    Where was one that I missed?

  • Reply 109 of 121
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    I think I'd trust the guy who said it himself rather than someone else claiming something about him. 



     


    You think that he's going to lie In a private internal email over something that Jobs could easily dispute?  Right.


     


    Quote:



    No, it hasn't. If you want to keep pretending that he was lying for "marketing" purposes, feel free. 





     


    If you want to pretend that Jobs didn't change his mind a lot based on what he learned, feel free.  You have a mighty low opinion of Jobs though, and one disputed by folks that actually knew him.


     


    All accounts indicate that the moment that Steve had information that lead to a different conclusion he fearlessly adopted it even if it was 180 degrees opposite of what he believed before.


     


    Quote:


    If you want to pretend Apple didn't do all the testing imaginable when making the iPad to know one way or another, feel free. Now that they're supposedly trying to sell one, we still have them on record saying "this size of tablet is worthless for content; they're just inherently bad", so wait for the spin toward that the other way.




     


    And we have Steve on record stating that no one reads anymore and yet we have iBooks.  I find it humorous that you trust Apple's usability testing when Steve says 7" android tablets will suck but don't trust Apple's HIG that states that 44x44 points is a sufficiently large UI target size for the expected iPad Mini display density.


     


    Pretty much all of Steve's negatives are addressed in the expected mini design.


     


    "the screens on the seven-inch tablets are a bit smaller than the bottom half of the iPad display. This size isn't sufficient to create great tablet apps in our opinion."


     


    The 4:3 iPad mini display is 7.85" and larger than the 16:9 7" tablets.  It is the same 1024x768 resolution as the iPad.


     


    "Well, one could increase the resolution of the display to make up for some of the difference. It is meaningless, unless your tablet also includes sandpaper, so that the user can sand down their fingers to around one quarter of the present size."


     


    The expected iPad mini pixel density is identical to that of the iPhone and UI targets designed for 44x44 points will be the same size on the iPad Mini and the iPhone.  No sandpaper required.  They are not 1/4 the size as on the iPad.  UI's rendered on the iPad are only 19% larger than the same UI rendered on the iPad Mini.


     


    "Third, every tablet user is also a smartphone user...Given that all tablet users will already have a smartphone in their pockets, giving up precious display area to fit a tablet in our pockets is clearly the wrong trade-off. The 7-inch tablets are tweeners, too big to compete with a smartphone and too small to compete with an iPad."


     


    At 1024x768 there is no tradeoff in usable display area.  UI elements and interaction targets will be smaller BUT STILL MEET APPLE HIG REQUIREMENTS.  If they did not then they would also be too small on the iPhone.


     


    While the mini will not be as portable as the iPhone it will be much more portable than the iPad.


     


    "Fourth, almost all of these new tablets use Android software, but even Google is telling the tablet manufacturers not to use their current release, Froyo, for tablets, and to wait for a special tablet release next year. "


     


    Not Android.  Not a problem.


     


    "Fifth, iPad now has over 35,000 apps on the App Store. This new crop of tablets will have near zero."


     


    The iPad Mini will have the same number of apps on the App Store as the iPad 2.  The same as the iPad 3 if it is retina.


     


    And sixth and last, our potential competitors are having a tough time coming close to iPad's pricing, even with their far smaller, far less expensive screens.


     


    The iPad mini will be cheaper than the iPad.


     


    Quote:



    Where was one that I missed?





     


    Given that you haven't addressed any of the ones presented in this thread then all of them.

  • Reply 110 of 121


    …Apple's HIG that states that 44x44 points…



     


    Blah de blah de blah. For heaven's sake, show some examples of what this implies!


     


    There is a pocketable UI, there is a carried UI. Trying to shoehorn a device between that doesn't work. People expect it to work like the pocketed UI (and that's all you see people claiming; it's the same DPI as such and such, the buttons are the same size as such and such), but they're forced to use it like the carried UI. 

  • Reply 111 of 121
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    Blah de blah de blah. For heaven's sake, show some examples of what this implies!



     


    Given that I've done this twice here and here in posts you've responded to the only conclusions I can draw is that either that you are too lazy to click on a link and see exactly what "this implies" on your own iPad which makes you willfully ignorant OR you don't actually own an iPad and therefore have no clue what you are talking about.


     


     


    Quote:



    There is a pocketable UI, there is a carried UI. Trying to shoehorn a device between that doesn't work. People expect it to work like the pocketed UI (and that's all you see people claiming; it's the same DPI as such and such, the buttons are the same size as such and such), but they're forced to use it like the carried UI. 




     


    At NO point does anyone claim it will work like a "pocketed UI" because at EVERY point everyone states it has the SAME UI layout as the current iPad.  


     


    The comparison with the iPhone is specifically to show that buttons that you see on the current iPad will be no smaller than if they would be if they were rendered instead on the iPhone because it has the same PPI.  If you weren't so pig headed you'd simply click on the links on your iPad and see exactly how regular iPad apps will look on the iPad mini.


     


    I provided an example textbook to compare.  Seveneightyfive.fscked.com has the main springboard, safari, flipboard, garageband (lock your ipad in portrait mode), pages, tweetbot, calendar, iPhoto and the portrait and landscape (lock in portrait again) keyboards.  Which you would have known if you clicked on any of the links provided in those two posts from the other thread.


     


    All of these apps are usable on the iPad mini without any changes in layout or design.  How many more fricking examples do you bloody need?  


     


    Same for use cases where a smaller iPad works better than the full sized one.   There are four or five in this thread alone and you've not refuted a single one.

  • Reply 112 of 121


    Originally Posted by nht View Post


    At NO point does anyone claim it will work like a "pocketed UI" because at EVERY point everyone states it has the SAME UI layout as the current iPad.  



     


    Really? Where you've said "it will have buttons at the same size as the iPhone, just on a larger area screen" isn't claiming it'd work like the pocketable UI?


     



    Same for use cases where a smaller iPad works better than the full sized one.



     


    Which are these, is what I'm asking.

  • Reply 113 of 121
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Really? Where you've said "it will have buttons at the same size as the iPhone, just on a larger area screen" isn't claiming it'd work like the pocketable UI?



     


     


    No.  I'm getting the serious impression that you don't know what UI means.  There are two (and a half) UI layouts for iOS:  iPhone (+iPhone 5) and iPad.  So the "pocketable" UI is defined by iPhone layout and app style conventions (which widgets to use for certain kinds of data, etc).  How the iPhone "works" is not defined by button sizes.  The iPad mini will not work like a "pocketable UI".  It works just like a regular iPad UI only at 84% the size.


     


    You haven't clicked any links have you?  Do you not own an iPad?


     


    Quote:



    Which are these, is what I'm asking.




     


    Do you seriously want me to provide links to posts in the same thread?  Especially since you just ignored a whole slew of examples you just asked for and I provided?


     


    mstone:  commuting tablet that fits in a backpack better


    wizard69: smaller ipad on the plant floor


    gazoobee:  kids iPad


    dick:  handier than the iPad as a camera


    me: car GPS and Moleskin iPad


     


    An iPad mini would also work better as a kneeboard or yoke mount than the full sized iPad.  Given the amount of press regarding the use of the iPad EFBs for pilots this isn't some esoteric niche application no one has heard of.

  • Reply 114 of 121


    Originally Posted by nht View Post

    There are two (and a half) UI layouts for iOS:  iPhone (+iPhone 5) and iPad.  So the "pocketable" UI is defined by iPhone layout and app style conventions (which widgets to use for certain kinds of data, etc).


     


    Right, so what's your rebuttal? It's a carried device being used like a pocketed device.






    How the iPhone "works" is not defined by button sizes.



     





     


    Sounds like that's exactly what is happening. Or are you saying that the buttons could be smaller (22x22) or larger (one button visible at once) and it would work the same way?


     



    Do you seriously want me to provide links to posts in the same thread?  Especially since you just ignored a whole slew of examples you just asked for and I provided?


     


    mstone:  commuting tablet that fits in a backpack better


    wizard69: smaller ipad on the plant floor


    gazoobee:  kids iPad


    dick:  handier than the iPad as a camera


    me: car GPS and Moleskin iPad



     


     


    Yes, I thought you had some standouts. Thanks. Can you explain why a slower, smaller tablet is better in these situations? What backpacks are too small for an iPad? Why not replace a clipboard with a device the same size? The hundreds of YouTube videos of their use show the iPad needs to be smaller for kids? And where do you propose this GPS device be placed? Remember, it's huge.


     


    Dick's is really the only one I'm finding myself agreeing with, simply because cameras trend physically smaller for stability. And yes, the best camera is the one you have on you at any given time, but it's a tablet! Its final shape, and how it's able to be held, will determine whether his guess is correct.

  • Reply 115 of 121
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Right, so what's your rebuttal? It's a carried device being used like a pocketed device.


     





     


    Sounds like that's exactly what is happening. Or are you saying that the buttons could be smaller (22x22) or larger (one button visible at once) and it would work the same way?



     


     


    You haven't clicked a link yet have you?  Why do you ask for examples if you steadfastly refuse to look at them? 


     


    Or is the problem you don't have an iPad?  


     


    A 22x22 button doesn't meet the HIG.  I am saying that given the entire range of pixel densities for iOS devices that Apple has determined the 44x44 points is an acceptable minimum size for buttons. The iPad Mini is expected to reuse an existing pixel density.  If you want to see what this looks like you should try it on your iPad.


     


    You DO own an iPad right?


     


    Quote:


    Yes, I thought you had some standouts. Thanks. Can you explain why a slower, smaller tablet is better in these situations? What backpacks are too small for an iPad? Why not replace a clipboard with a device the same size? The hundreds of YouTube videos of their use show the iPad needs to be smaller for kids? And where do you propose this GPS device be placed? Remember, it's huge.


     


    Dick's is really the only one I'm finding myself agreeing with, simply because cameras trend physically smaller for stability. And yes, the best camera is the one you have on you at any given time, but it's a tablet! Its final shape, and how it's able to be held, will determine whether his guess is correct.




     


    There is no reason to believe it will be slower.  The iPhone 5 is as fast or faster than the iPad 3 in many benchmarks so it's not a size constraint.  If Apple decides to drop a A5X in there it will be the same or faster.  If Apple decides to drop a normal A5 in there it'll be a little slower.


     


    A smaller tablet fits in handbags, backpacks, jackets better than larger tablets.  What needs to be explained here?  


     


    What backpacks are too small?  Did you read his post?  Backpacks WITH OTHER STUFF IN THEM.


     


    Why do iPads need to be smaller for kids?  Because typically MOM carries these tablets in their purses for their kids.  YOU tell your wife to carry a bigger handbag to lug around the iPad vs the Kindle.  That goes over really well.  Do you have kids?  Or a wife?  Hell, do you even have an iPad?


     


    Why replace a clipboard with a device the same size?  Because many of these clipboards are smaller than the iPad so it isn't the same size.  Many are leg width for better pilot mobility without needing to take it off your flight suit.  The electronic kneeboards I used to code for are more kindle width than iPad width.  Do you have legs?  Do you have an iPad?  If the answer is yes to both you can easily see why some pilots would prefer a smaller sized tablet by trying it out.  Especially the ones in more cramped cockpits.


     


    The Mini iPad as a GPS device can be dash mounted more easily than the full sized iPad.  It is not nearly as "huge" as the iPad.  It is...amazingly...around the same size as 7" GPS units like the Magellan RoadMate 1700.  This is the same reason why the iPad mini would be better for yoke mounts in some aircraft than the full sized iPad.

  • Reply 116 of 121


    Originally Posted by nht View Post


    There is no reason to believe it will be slower.



     


    Note to self: if it has an A5, it won't be slower than an A6. So why was the A6 even made?


     



    If Apple decides to drop a A5X in there it will be the same or faster.



     


    But they WON'T. It doesn't need it. It has no use for quad-core graphics. Of course the iPhone is faster than the iPad. It's using a newer generation chip.






    If Apple decides to drop a normal A5 in there it'll be a little slower.



     


    Wow. Where have I heard something like this before? Oh, yes: 






    Originally Posted by nht View Post


    There is no reason to believe it will be slower.



  • Reply 117 of 121
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Note to self: if it has an A5, it won't be slower than an A6. So why was the A6 even made?


     


    But they WON'T. It doesn't need it. It has no use for quad-core graphics. Of course the iPhone is faster than the iPad. It's using a newer generation chip.


     


    Wow. Where have I heard something like this before? Oh, yes: 



     


    This is what you choose to comment on in a stupid manner?  You asserted it must be slower than the iPad 3.  There are 2 options where it will not be and only one where it would be.


     


    You don't have an iPad do you? 

  • Reply 118 of 121


    Originally Posted by nht View Post

    You asserted it must be slower than the iPad 3.


     


    And using an A5, it will be. 




    Hey, it could use an A6. I'd actually prefer that to what I'm thinking it'll be. That would clear the speed issue up immediately.

  • Reply 119 of 121
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    And using an A5, it will be. 




    Hey, it could use an A6. I'd actually prefer that to what I'm thinking it'll be. That would clear the speed issue up immediately.



     


    That was my point.  The iPad Mini does not NEED to be slower than the iPad 3.  We'll know in an hour.


     


    Again, you failed to answer the very direct: "Do you actually own an iPad" question.  


     


    If not then why do you keep asking for examples you cannot see for a device you never cared enough to own?  Have you been talking out of your ass this whole time?

  • Reply 120 of 121
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member


    Guess you and melgoss was wrong.  Apps are exactly as they were on the iPad.


     


    "We began with a display that has the same resolution as the ipad 2...so all your apps and content look and work the same way..."


     


    iPad mini video starting 0:39


     


    Are you finally going to buy one TS?

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