Just as you still have alternatives for Apple's Maps if it fails. So there's absolutely no difference. When Google's Maps was the standard, you had exactly the same third party options that you have now. In fact, Apple has even more options - since Google is now a third party alternative. So you have MORE options today than you did a month ago.
What is the alternative core Maps app that integrates with Contacts, Calendars, Reminders, and Siri on iOS 6? My "alternatives" are crippled, something that didn't happen with Google Maps' alternatives, hence the flaw in the analogy.
By the way, just to stop this already derailed train of thought, let me remind you that all analogies are flawed in nature due to being inferences from the particular to the particular; they can only be used when all the parties in a debate agree with them, and since I do not agree that Google Maps replaced anything else the same way Apple Maps is replacing Google Maps on iOS, you can not use or defend that analogy.
Yes he can! And you can choose to ignore it.
Just because you have decided that youare right, it doesn't mean that everyone (anyone) else is wrong!
That's the difference between discussion and pedantry!
Apple is becoming just like MS since they are rapidly gaining marketshare. It's all about PUSH THE UNFINISHED BUGGY PRODUCT OUT and we'll deal with it later. Shame shame Apple.
Not at all. Apple pushes out products when they need the public to help fix it faster then they can on their own.
The second post down is the most obvious and intuitive.
Apple had a year left to go on their license with Google Maps.
Unproven rumor. Especially when the article most are sourcing actually said they had a year left when they decided not to continue with Google maps but never gave any information about when that was. It could have been last fall meaning the contract ended when iOS 6 released to the public.
Yesterday, I drove from Orange County to Santa Monica with iOS 6 Maps and my iPhone locked (listening to Siri for turn-by-turn directions). My iPhone 4S was fully-charged before I left and by the time I reached my destination I was down to 35% battery life. I probably spent two hours driving factoring in morning traffic.
Nope sounds about right if you are on battery with the phone constantly pinging the gps for your location and 3G data for the directions. Especially when you could be in an area with sketch 3G quality so the phone may have to rescan for the signal on a very frequent basis.
For Tim Cook the CEO apologizing then the negative feedback must be far greater than the 4-5 negative Fandroids posting here on AI. I'd venture it must be catastrophic.
Nope. Doesn't mean that at all. Just means some of them are loud. Like say David Pogue.
I believe it is both tracking and contributing. Tracking can collect/detect search patterns (as described in other posts). Tracking may, or may not be improved if it knows your location.
If you want control:
Settings--->Privacy---> Location Services--->Maps
I'm not sure how the Maps app can be very useful with Location Services disabled. It is one thing to know and use the user's current location to assist in providing that specific end user with functionality and quite another thing to analyze the user's behavior and aggregate it or save it into a database for their own purposes.
So this crowd sourced info is automatic? Is Apple keeping track of what parts of the world I am searching and where I am located all the time? Or is your description of crowd sourced the fact that there is a report a problem button. I would draw a distinction between simply using the Maps app and actively contributing to updating the data. If they are tracking me then that is going to be a security issue. I think they really need to define what they mean by "It gets better the more people use it".
As you know, it's not tracking you. Furthermore, even if they were tracking you, they would have no way of fixing their maps based on that data. If your home's real address is 1 Main Street, but Apple has it listed as 11 Main St and you go home, Apple simply thinks you went to 11 Main St and wouldn't have any reason to change the data. The only way that they change data is if someone reports it and they can verify it in some way.
So "it gets better the more people who use it" might be better phrased as "it gets better as people report errors", but if the percentage of people who reports errors stays constant, either statement amounts to the same thing in the end.
Well in either case the aerial imagery will not improve unless Apple leases better data. I would suggest buying Geo Eye. Current market cap GEOY 593.49M. Then TomTom with a current market cap of 1.05B. Also Yelp which recently rejected a $500 M offer from Google. If Apple bought those companies they would truly have their own data and a platform from which they could continue to grow. The current collection of third party vendors is not sustainable in my opinion. I think we will see a repeat of this same scenario a couple years from now when Apple can no longer depend on its providers.
I agree that Apple should (likely, will) buy the resources needed for maps and bring them in house.
As to being held ransom by TomTom or some other supplier... you can almost guarantee that Apple has options to broaden its contracts to include new features and extend the length of the contract.
Speak for yourself, apologist! This is the BIGGEST mistake Apple has made since the release of the iPhone. They put their hated of Google AHEAD of its userbase. An apology was VERY appropriate in this situation.
You can keep saying that but it doesn't make it true.
A video of Tim Cook saying they hate Google and all choices are made to screw Google, now that would be proof.
Your wrong, actually stock holders have a lot to say in Apples plans.
What's trust got to do with this issue? They made a big mistake. Now they need to act quickly and offer a satisfying correction. ASAP.
You must be one of those people who doesn't put his money where his mouth is. Me on the other hand I have done very nicely investing in Apple in spite of the lousy economy.
Apple stock has gone down this week partly because of the negative press associated with this Apples limited mapping choices.
I know of 3 people who planned to upgrade to the new phone but are holding off because of this app issue.
Tim's apology is not adequate he needs to get the Google app available for OS 6 now.
That they haven't (a say in apples plans) is evident, or all shareholders must disagree with you.
It's you opinion that Apple made a big mistake, and you think they are not handling it well enough.
So I would say that's a lack of trust in Apple. But if trust has nothing to do with it - as you say - it must be that your only in it for the money.
(As a side note: don't you think you could be wrong on both accounts, not having all the information Apple has and not realizing Apples complex situation, and possibly underestimating a company with an incredible track record?)
a "half a billion" search requests that returned some, valid, invalid or no map data...
<< "half a billion" search requests that have been follow-ons to unsatisfactory searches...
Now, we know Apple is logging all these searches! The search data, return data and search patterns (follow-on searches) can be analyzed by computer to quickly focus on problem areas that need attention, e.g.:
"Where were you when you made the search?"
"Why was no Address found?"
"Why did you make an additional search with slightly modified search terms?"
"Why did you make a right turn followed by a U-tern when I told you to make a left turn?"
"What problems were reported?"
By having access to all of the data, Apple now has the ability and opportunity to refine the maps experience.
Apple never had that the ability and opportunity with Google and iOS5 maps.
Shunting, those 2 billion searches (per month) back to Google would defeat the opportunity for Apple to build a superior maps experience.
So they are not tracking me? Or they are tracking me? Which is it?
Knowing Apple, I assume that if you turn off the setting in Settings--->Privacy--->Location Services--->Maps, they are not tracking your device or its movement.
However, I see no reason why they wouldn't log the requests and responses on their servers. They could generate an arbitrary, perishable, synthetic device ID so that they could tie all the requests from one device together -- but not be able to tie it back to your device.
I suspect that Google did something like that on their servers -- but didn't have access to the device ID.
wow I never thought I'd see the day. David Pogue, only second to Gruber for his love of all things Apple has written a scathing review of Maps. Good on him.
"In short, Maps is an appalling first release. It may be the most embarrassing, least usable piece of software Apple has ever unleashed. "
No your wrong, that must be Final Cut Pro X.
Absolutely the most horrible software in the universe ever. At least according to a few people complaining as hell, a year or so ago, when it was introduced.
A few months later few complaints could be heard, blown away by the facts and the quality of the software.
Think about it.
Google has demonstrated that it is not a viable "partner" for Apple's future mapping needs!
Maybe they were once "good partnerships", but things change! Like maps, "partnership agreements" need to be updated to reflect current conditions.
Apple could not get what they wanted from Google, so they changed "partners".
Viable or not, iOS 5 Maps was light-years ahead of what Apple came up with. Sure no Turn-By-Turn...Boo-fricken'-Hoo. Sure not Flyover...Streetview was better. Everything (except for the whole vector graphics bit) was better in iOS 5.1.1 maps. iOS 6 Maps is no better than some crappy Store-bought GPS device from TomTom or Garmin. Google Maps was not just maps, but so much more.
I could care less of the negative feedback Apple's Maps are getting. Tim Cook has acknowledged the problem and addressed it. This is all I need to hear, and most definitely will not deter me from getting my iPhone5. The Maps will only get better from here on. The iPhone5 has beaten the competition already in significant categories, so when a flaw does finally show up, the 'haters' feel they finally have something to bring Apple down. This will not change the millions and millions of iPhone5's that will sell around the world! Like I said, Tim Cook acknowledged the problem and it's only going to be better. Let's move on....
So you are calling him out for saying something that is true? If you think there are not "Apple fanboys" on here then you are being lumped into that group because you are closing your eyes/mind to the obvious truth. Android, WP, BB and iOS all have their supporters and then they have their rabid fans. When you ignore the extremists and don't call them out on the stuff they do, you run the risk of them being the public support of your favourite product and no one wants that. Idiots about in all parts of life and it's up to others to call them out on it.
Using the phrase "Apple fanboys" here is like walking into a gay bar and calling the other patrons "fags". It's hate speech that doesn't add anything to the discussion, and is the sign of a demented mind venting over its own frustrations in life.
That you pretend these "Apple fanboys" are "extremists", acting like they are some sort of Taliban, and pretending there's some sort of moral equivalency there, tells me you've got some issues yourself.
Here's the bottom line. Apple makes great products. Some of us like that. Some people apparently are bothered by it. Some of us expect that when Apple isn't 100% perfect, they know it and intend to fix the problems as soon as they can, even when the extent of them are overblown. Some people like to label the appreciation of general excellence in this case a "cult", while they hypocritically "worship at other alters," usually because they have some sort of irrational dislike of Apple or have got the idea in their heads that anything with the label "open" attached to it has to be the best.
Some of us are tired of listening to the tirades of trolls, shills, astroturfers and haters. So, stop pretending that anyone who defends Apple is the Taliban, and stop using language that makes that equivalence. Some of us just happen to think they have the best products, threaten our privacy less than the alternatives, and would like to see them succeed as long as they maintain their commitment to general excellence.
Knowing Apple, I assume that if you turn off the setting in Settings--->Privacy--->Location Services--->Maps, they are not tracking your device or its movement.
No, turning location off in settings will not disable Apple tracking thru maps. There is currently no option to completely disable it AFAIK. By necessity Apple will log your travels and current/past locations via Apple Maps. How else to get statistics for traffic flow, road geometry errors and the like?
Using the phrase "Apple fanboys" here is like walking into a gay bar and calling the other patrons "fags". It's hate speech that doesn't add anything to the discussion, and is the sign of a demented mind venting over its own frustrations in life.
That you pretend these "Apple fanboys" are "extremists", acting like they are some sort of Taliban, and pretending there's some sort of moral equivalency there, tells me you've got some issues yourself.
Here's the bottom line. Apple makes great products. Some of us like that. Some people apparently are bothered by it. Some of us expect that when Apple isn't 100% perfect, they know it and intend to fix the problems as soon as they can, even when the extent of them are overblown. Some people like to label the appreciation of general excellence in this case a "cult", while they hypocritically "worship at other alters," usually because they have some sort of irrational dislike of Apple or have got the idea in their heads that anything with the label "open" attached to it has to be the best.
Some of us are tired of listening to the tirades of trolls, shills, astroturfers and haters. So, stop pretending that anyone who defends Apple is the Taliban, and stop using language that makes that equivalence. Some of us just happen to think they have the best products, threaten our privacy less than the alternatives, and would like to see them succeed as long as they maintain their commitment to general excellence.
From this very thread:
Quote:
"Somebody should virtually beat the living shit out of these psychopaths, in my humble opinion."
...
"From now on, I will not engage Fandroids and obvious Apple haters in any rational discussion, I will aggressively attack, while destroying and eliminating them. They're like cockroaches, and nobody wants a cockroach infestation. What do you do with cockroaches? You kill them and get rid of them."
As a new member I find this quite appalling that this sort of conduct is not subject of moderation.
I wouldn't even call someone making such statements an "Apple fanboy", just out of touch with reality.
Oh well, enough attention given - time to find the ignore functionality in this board.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Just as you still have alternatives for Apple's Maps if it fails. So there's absolutely no difference. When Google's Maps was the standard, you had exactly the same third party options that you have now. In fact, Apple has even more options - since Google is now a third party alternative. So you have MORE options today than you did a month ago.
What is the alternative core Maps app that integrates with Contacts, Calendars, Reminders, and Siri on iOS 6? My "alternatives" are crippled, something that didn't happen with Google Maps' alternatives, hence the flaw in the analogy.
By the way, just to stop this already derailed train of thought, let me remind you that all analogies are flawed in nature due to being inferences from the particular to the particular; they can only be used when all the parties in a debate agree with them, and since I do not agree that Google Maps replaced anything else the same way Apple Maps is replacing Google Maps on iOS, you can not use or defend that analogy.
Yes he can! And you can choose to ignore it.
Just because you have decided that you are right, it doesn't mean that everyone (anyone) else is wrong!
That's the difference between discussion and pedantry!
Not at all. Apple pushes out products when they need the public to help fix it faster then they can on their own.
Microsoft just pushes out products period.
Unproven rumor. Especially when the article most are sourcing actually said they had a year left when they decided not to continue with Google maps but never gave any information about when that was. It could have been last fall meaning the contract ended when iOS 6 released to the public.
Nope sounds about right if you are on battery with the phone constantly pinging the gps for your location and 3G data for the directions. Especially when you could be in an area with sketch 3G quality so the phone may have to rescan for the signal on a very frequent basis.
Nope. Doesn't mean that at all. Just means some of them are loud. Like say David Pogue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
I believe it is both tracking and contributing. Tracking can collect/detect search patterns (as described in other posts). Tracking may, or may not be improved if it knows your location.
If you want control:
Settings--->Privacy---> Location Services--->Maps
I'm not sure how the Maps app can be very useful with Location Services disabled. It is one thing to know and use the user's current location to assist in providing that specific end user with functionality and quite another thing to analyze the user's behavior and aggregate it or save it into a database for their own purposes.
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2012/09/18/apple-stock-soars-to-over-700-for-1st-time-on-iphone-5-sales/
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
So this crowd sourced info is automatic? Is Apple keeping track of what parts of the world I am searching and where I am located all the time? Or is your description of crowd sourced the fact that there is a report a problem button. I would draw a distinction between simply using the Maps app and actively contributing to updating the data. If they are tracking me then that is going to be a security issue. I think they really need to define what they mean by "It gets better the more people use it".
As you know, it's not tracking you. Furthermore, even if they were tracking you, they would have no way of fixing their maps based on that data. If your home's real address is 1 Main Street, but Apple has it listed as 11 Main St and you go home, Apple simply thinks you went to 11 Main St and wouldn't have any reason to change the data. The only way that they change data is if someone reports it and they can verify it in some way.
So "it gets better the more people who use it" might be better phrased as "it gets better as people report errors", but if the percentage of people who reports errors stays constant, either statement amounts to the same thing in the end.
Well in either case the aerial imagery will not improve unless Apple leases better data. I would suggest buying Geo Eye. Current market cap GEOY 593.49M. Then TomTom with a current market cap of 1.05B. Also Yelp which recently rejected a $500 M offer from Google. If Apple bought those companies they would truly have their own data and a platform from which they could continue to grow. The current collection of third party vendors is not sustainable in my opinion. I think we will see a repeat of this same scenario a couple years from now when Apple can no longer depend on its providers.
I agree that Apple should (likely, will) buy the resources needed for maps and bring them in house.
As to being held ransom by TomTom or some other supplier... you can almost guarantee that Apple has options to broaden its contracts to include new features and extend the length of the contract.
You can keep saying that but it doesn't make it true.
A video of Tim Cook saying they hate Google and all choices are made to screw Google, now that would be proof.
That they haven't (a say in apples plans) is evident, or all shareholders must disagree with you.
It's you opinion that Apple made a big mistake, and you think they are not handling it well enough.
So I would say that's a lack of trust in Apple. But if trust has nothing to do with it - as you say - it must be that your only in it for the money.
(As a side note: don't you think you could be wrong on both accounts, not having all the information Apple has and not realizing Apples complex situation, and possibly underestimating a company with an incredible track record?)
J.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
These are pretty big numbers
a "half a billion" search requests in 1+ weeks...
a "half a billion" search requests that returned some, valid, invalid or no map data...
<< "half a billion" search requests that have been follow-ons to unsatisfactory searches...
Now, we know Apple is logging all these searches! The search data, return data and search patterns (follow-on searches) can be analyzed by computer to quickly focus on problem areas that need attention, e.g.:
"Where were you when you made the search?"
"Why was no Address found?"
"Why did you make an additional search with slightly modified search terms?"
"Why did you make a right turn followed by a U-tern when I told you to make a left turn?"
"What problems were reported?"
By having access to all of the data, Apple now has the ability and opportunity to refine the maps experience.
Apple never had that the ability and opportunity with Google and iOS5 maps.
Shunting, those 2 billion searches (per month) back to Google would defeat the opportunity for Apple to build a superior maps experience.
So they are not tracking me? Or they are tracking me? Which is it?
Knowing Apple, I assume that if you turn off the setting in Settings--->Privacy--->Location Services--->Maps, they are not tracking your device or its movement.
However, I see no reason why they wouldn't log the requests and responses on their servers. They could generate an arbitrary, perishable, synthetic device ID so that they could tie all the requests from one device together -- but not be able to tie it back to your device.
I suspect that Google did something like that on their servers -- but didn't have access to the device ID.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lerxt
Where I live, and where i regularly travel too, it's hopelessly unusable.
I second that!
No your wrong, that must be Final Cut Pro X.
Absolutely the most horrible software in the universe ever. At least according to a few people complaining as hell, a year or so ago, when it was introduced.
A few months later few complaints could be heard, blown away by the facts and the quality of the software.
Think about it.
J.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Did you miss the word "partner"?
Google has demonstrated that it is not a viable "partner" for Apple's future mapping needs!
Maybe they were once "good partnerships", but things change! Like maps, "partnership agreements" need to be updated to reflect current conditions.
Apple could not get what they wanted from Google, so they changed "partners".
Viable or not, iOS 5 Maps was light-years ahead of what Apple came up with. Sure no Turn-By-Turn...Boo-fricken'-Hoo. Sure not Flyover...Streetview was better. Everything (except for the whole vector graphics bit) was better in iOS 5.1.1 maps. iOS 6 Maps is no better than some crappy Store-bought GPS device from TomTom or Garmin. Google Maps was not just maps, but so much more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshonhall
Give them a break. Look at it with new eyes. Relax. Breathe. It's just a maps app, that happens to do a LOT more than the app it's replacing.
It appears that most of the issues are with international people. That said, I'm completely with you.
Ground breaking improvements are generally faced with a first generation that seems like a step back, if for no other reason than it is a change.
Was everyone thrilled when Apple came out with OSX and broke backwards compatibility?
I recall a few complaints when Apple moved to Intel.
Any major changes in technology are faced with this. Change rarely inspires cheers.
I could care less of the negative feedback Apple's Maps are getting. Tim Cook has acknowledged the problem and addressed it. This is all I need to hear, and most definitely will not deter me from getting my iPhone5. The Maps will only get better from here on. The iPhone5 has beaten the competition already in significant categories, so when a flaw does finally show up, the 'haters' feel they finally have something to bring Apple down. This will not change the millions and millions of iPhone5's that will sell around the world! Like I said, Tim Cook acknowledged the problem and it's only going to be better. Let's move on....
Quote:
Originally Posted by icoco3
Riiiiight...Street View while driving your car.
This comment makes no sense. you wouldn't use Street View or Flyover while driving anyway. So what's your point?
His point was that streetview is how PEOPLE visualize the world. Flyover is how a Gamer or an evil dictator visualizes the world. :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy2shoes
So you are calling him out for saying something that is true? If you think there are not "Apple fanboys" on here then you are being lumped into that group because you are closing your eyes/mind to the obvious truth. Android, WP, BB and iOS all have their supporters and then they have their rabid fans. When you ignore the extremists and don't call them out on the stuff they do, you run the risk of them being the public support of your favourite product and no one wants that. Idiots about in all parts of life and it's up to others to call them out on it.
Using the phrase "Apple fanboys" here is like walking into a gay bar and calling the other patrons "fags". It's hate speech that doesn't add anything to the discussion, and is the sign of a demented mind venting over its own frustrations in life.
That you pretend these "Apple fanboys" are "extremists", acting like they are some sort of Taliban, and pretending there's some sort of moral equivalency there, tells me you've got some issues yourself.
Here's the bottom line. Apple makes great products. Some of us like that. Some people apparently are bothered by it. Some of us expect that when Apple isn't 100% perfect, they know it and intend to fix the problems as soon as they can, even when the extent of them are overblown. Some people like to label the appreciation of general excellence in this case a "cult", while they hypocritically "worship at other alters," usually because they have some sort of irrational dislike of Apple or have got the idea in their heads that anything with the label "open" attached to it has to be the best.
Some of us are tired of listening to the tirades of trolls, shills, astroturfers and haters. So, stop pretending that anyone who defends Apple is the Taliban, and stop using language that makes that equivalence. Some of us just happen to think they have the best products, threaten our privacy less than the alternatives, and would like to see them succeed as long as they maintain their commitment to general excellence.
+++ QFT
Nicely done!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Knowing Apple, I assume that if you turn off the setting in Settings--->Privacy--->Location Services--->Maps, they are not tracking your device or its movement.
No, turning location off in settings will not disable Apple tracking thru maps. There is currently no option to completely disable it AFAIK. By necessity Apple will log your travels and current/past locations via Apple Maps. How else to get statistics for traffic flow, road geometry errors and the like?
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Using the phrase "Apple fanboys" here is like walking into a gay bar and calling the other patrons "fags". It's hate speech that doesn't add anything to the discussion, and is the sign of a demented mind venting over its own frustrations in life.
That you pretend these "Apple fanboys" are "extremists", acting like they are some sort of Taliban, and pretending there's some sort of moral equivalency there, tells me you've got some issues yourself.
Here's the bottom line. Apple makes great products. Some of us like that. Some people apparently are bothered by it. Some of us expect that when Apple isn't 100% perfect, they know it and intend to fix the problems as soon as they can, even when the extent of them are overblown. Some people like to label the appreciation of general excellence in this case a "cult", while they hypocritically "worship at other alters," usually because they have some sort of irrational dislike of Apple or have got the idea in their heads that anything with the label "open" attached to it has to be the best.
Some of us are tired of listening to the tirades of trolls, shills, astroturfers and haters. So, stop pretending that anyone who defends Apple is the Taliban, and stop using language that makes that equivalence. Some of us just happen to think they have the best products, threaten our privacy less than the alternatives, and would like to see them succeed as long as they maintain their commitment to general excellence.
From this very thread:
Quote:
"Somebody should virtually beat the living shit out of these psychopaths, in my humble opinion."
...
"From now on, I will not engage Fandroids and obvious Apple haters in any rational discussion, I will aggressively attack, while destroying and eliminating them. They're like cockroaches, and nobody wants a cockroach infestation. What do you do with cockroaches? You kill them and get rid of them."
As a new member I find this quite appalling that this sort of conduct is not subject of moderation.
I wouldn't even call someone making such statements an "Apple fanboy", just out of touch with reality.
Oh well, enough attention given - time to find the ignore functionality in this board.