The question now is when? 6 months from now, a year from now? I'd love to buy a iPad mini but not if a updated version is coming out in 6 months. See the dilemma Apple caused today? It could potentially cost them to lose sales.
So when a new Android 7 incher gets released every two months, that means that it would be impossible to make a purchasing decision at any given point in time? Which is probably true since that is mostly what i read on android related posts in tech forums. People declaring that they won't buy a product because a "better" one has already been announced (and of course Apple hate...always Apple hate even though the post has nothing to do with Apple).
It's progress. If you feel compelled to wait because of that then you probably do not even need the product at all...
Google just announced a 32GB Nexus 7 for the same price as the 16GB one. In a month they will probably release a 64GB one with the same price. And so on... I'm sure there customers just love that strategy!
But you're looking at as an extra $30. As you note, maybe it was a drop of $20 to get to a price point that would sell out and kill off the Android market. Remember, Apple doesn't have to match their competiton 1:1 on price to beat them. They offer things their competition simply can't match and this tablet has plenty of that.
Soli, here's my take. As Dick Applebaum said a few days ago, Apple had a chance to be "disruptive" with the iPad Mini. IMO they missed. There's very little that makes it a stand-out product. It won't be as portable as the smaller 7" competitors, which is what I saw mentioned as a primary hope for the Mini by many forum members. It doesn't sport Apple's now-iconic Retina display, which some others felt was a requirement. Not even the emphasis on the Mini as a education device, which many here thought would be the focus at the base end.
Then there's the price. With the intro at this time of the year it's obvious Apple plans to promo this for the holiday gift giving, which is smart. What's not so smart is they could have taken a minimal risk and come in much closer to competitors pricing and really push Mom and Dad to opt Apple rather than "other". And don't try to say Apple doesn't consider something like the Nexus7 as a competitor when Shiller trots them out on stage to compare.
Assume I want to buy a smaller tablet for each of three grandkids. Here in Florida that would set me back about $1056 with tax for the least expensive base model 16GB Wi-Fi Mini. Opting instead for the base Nexus (reportedly a 16GB rather than 8 by the end of the month) would be $639, saving grandpa over $400. Even going for the already shipping 32GB Nexus, doubling Apple's base, I'd still save over $250.
With the pricing and features Apple settled on they've allowed a huge opening for competitors holiday sales, something they apparently decided was less important than holding their traditional margins. Apple no doubt made the best choice for their bottom line, but they had an opportunity to leave the door open only a crack for the competition instead of opening the window too.
The way Apple pitched this product was a mistake IMO. They should've ignored the competition and focused on how the product was thinner, lighter and a smaller form factor. Focus on the build quality, highlight some of the features like front and rear camera, fast wifi, cellular, etc. And then have a software/app focus to really sell the device. Maybe something education related. But the way Phil sold it was basically focusing on web browsing and saying its better than the 7" tablets because it has a bigger screen. It was kind of a head scratcher that he really didn't say anything to make the higher price seem justified.
At $329, this is not particularly attractive. Google and Amazon must be pretty psyched that when Apple had a chance to crush them, it blinked. Well, actually, it got a little too greedy.
They will satisfy the crowd willing to pay $329 pretty quickly, after which the price will probably drop to (a still unsatisfactory) $299. The "right" price is $249. However, the iPod touch starts at $299, so they kind of boxed themselves in with a high floor price, unless they want to admit that smaller devices can/should cost more than their larger counterparts.
I was really looking forward to this device. Now I am looking at maybe picking up a Kindle Fire, just to see what it's like. At $200, that borders on an impulse buy. The fact that I feel this way suggests Apple miscalculated.
At $329, this is not particularly attractive. Google and Amazon must be pretty psyched that when Apple had a chance to crush them, it blinked. Well, actually, it got a little too greedy.
They will satisfy the crowd willing to pay $329 pretty quickly, after which the price will probably drop to (a still unsatisfactory) $299. The "right" price is $249. However, the iPod touch starts at $299, so they kind of boxed themselves in with a high floor price, unless they want to admit that smaller devices can/should cost more than their larger counterparts.
I was really looking forward to this device. Now I am looking at maybe picking up a Kindle Fire, just to see what it's like. At $200, that borders on an impulse buy. The fact that I feel this way suggests Apple miscalculated.
Apple has never been one to follow others in a race to the bottom in terms of pricing. With the small tablet market, it is an even more accelerated race to the bottom because they are literally selling them at subsidized prices in hopes that customers will spend enough with the device later to make up the slim margins (or loss) that they made on each sale. But it will definitely be a challenge for Apple to pull this one off with the level of success that they have become accustomed to. Public perception is now that subsidized prices are 'normal' prices and anything higher is out of line or Apple being greedy.
So when a new Android 7 incher gets released every two months, that means that it would be impossible to make a purchasing decision at any given point in time? Which is probably true since that is mostly what i read on android related posts in tech forums. People declaring that they won't buy a product because a "better" one has already been announced (and of course Apple hate...always Apple hate even though the post has nothing to do with Apple).
It's progress. If you feel compelled to wait because of that then you probably do not even need the product at all...
Google just announced a 32GB Nexus 7 for the same price as the 16GB one. In a month they will probably release a 64GB one with the same price. And so on... I'm sure there customers just love that strategy!
Not the same because it's different manufacturers.
If you look at the MS Surface RT — which I think will sell better than most $199 tablets — it has a weak resolution, is designed only or landscape mode, has no apps or ecosystem, and if you want to make a notebook replacement (which seems to be their goal) you really need the 64GB at $700 plus another $130 for the Type Cover. At that price you might as well just get an ultrabook-class notebook with a Core processor.
Soli, here's my take. As Dick Applebaum said a few days ago, Apple had a chance to be "disruptive" with the iPad Mini. IMO they missed. There's very little that makes it a stand-out product. It won't be as portable as the smaller 7" competitors, which is what I saw mentioned as a primary hope for the Mini by many forum members. It doesn't sport Apple's now-iconic Retina display, which some others felt was a requirement. Not even the emphasis on the Mini as a education device, which many here thought would be the focus at the base end.
Then there's the price. With the intro at this time of the year it's obvious Apple plans to promo this for the holiday gift giving, which is smart. What's not so smart is they could have taken a minimal risk and come in much closer to competitors pricing and really push Mom and Dad to opt Apple rather than "other". And don't try to say Apple doesn't consider something like the Nexus7 as a competitor when Shiller trots them out on stage to compare.
Assume I want to buy a smaller tablet for each of three grandkids. Here in Florida that would set me back about $1056 with tax for the least expensive base model 16GB Wi-Fi Mini. Opting instead for the base Nexus (reportedly a 16GB rather than 8 by the end of the month) would be $639, saving grandpa over $400. Even going for the already shipping 32GB Nexus, doubling Apple's base, I'd still save over $250.
With the pricing and features Apple settled on they've allowed a huge opening for competitors holiday sales, something they apparently decided was less important than holding their traditional margins. Apple no doubt made the best choice for their bottom line, but they had an opportunity to leave the door open only a crack for the competition instead of opening the window too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
The way Apple pitched this product was a mistake IMO. They should've ignored the competition and focused on how the product was thinner, lighter and a smaller form factor. Focus on the build quality, highlight some of the features like front and rear camera, fast wifi, cellular, etc. And then have a software/app focus to really sell the device. Maybe something education related. But the way Phil sold it was basically focusing on web browsing and saying its better than the 7" tablets because it has a bigger screen. It was kind of a head scratcher that he really didn't say anything to make the higher price seem justified.
Yes and yes. I feel that Schiller dropped the ball this time.
I wished that they could have been more "disruptive" and focus on the long-term instead of just this quarter.
At $329, this is not particularly attractive. Google and Amazon must be pretty psyched that when Apple had a chance to crush them, it blinked. Well, actually, it got a little too greedy.
They will satisfy the crowd willing to pay $329 pretty quickly, after which the price will probably drop to (a still unsatisfactory) $299. The "right" price is $249. However, the iPod touch starts at $299, so they kind of boxed themselves in with a high floor price, unless they want to admit that smaller devices can/should cost more than their larger counterparts.
I was really looking forward to this device. Now I am looking at maybe picking up a Kindle Fire, just to see what it's like. At $200, that borders on an impulse buy. The fact that I feel this way suggests Apple miscalculated.
Who decides what the right price is? We won't know until we get some sales data on this product. If sales are soft and there aren't known supply constraints that will tell us the price was to high. If not than it wasn't. But I think Apple would've done a better job as pitching this as filling a hole in their line up (between the iPod touch and 9.7" iPad) vs competition for the cheaper 7" tablets. Obviously Apple isn't really looking to compete with them but rather catering to people who want a smaller form factor iPad or a cheaper one that has basically the same experience as the larger iPad.
Soli, here's my take. As Dick Applebaum said a few days ago, Apple had a chance to be "disruptive" with the iPad Mini. IMO they missed. There's very little that makes it a stand-out product. It won't be as portable as the smaller 7" competitors, which is what I saw mentioned as a primary hope for the Mini by many forum members. It doesn't sport Apple's now-iconic Retina display, which some others felt was a requirement. Not even the emphasis on the Mini as a education device, which many here thought would be the focus at the base end.
Then there's the price. With the intro at this time of the year it's obvious Apple plans to promo this for the holiday gift giving, which is smart. What's not so smart is they could have taken a minimal risk and come in much closer to competitors pricing and really push Mom and Dad to opt Apple rather than "other". And don't try to say Apple doesn't consider something like the Nexus7 as a competitor when Shiller trots them out on stage to compare.
Assume I want to buy a smaller tablet for each of three grandkids. Here in Florida that would set me back about $1056 with tax for the least expensive base model 16GB Wi-Fi Mini. Opting instead for the base Nexus (reportedly a 16GB rather than 8 by the end of the month) would be $639, saving grandpa over $400. Even going for the already shipping 32GB Nexus, doubling Apple's base, I'd still save over $250.
With the pricing and features Apple settled on they've allowed a huge opening for competitors holiday sales, something they apparently decided was less important than holding their traditional margins. Apple no doubt made the best choice for their bottom line, but they had an opportunity to leave the door open only a crack for the competition instead of opening the window too.
This is one of those things we'l have to wait and see to find out. Despite there being cheaper Android tablets (even less than $100) since the iPad launched we still see the iPad starting at $499 dominating. They even updated their flagship product after half a year.
My guess is that Apple worked all this out a long time ago. Adding to their solid history of understanding markets, consumers, and being very disruptive in markets I have to think they have a lot of more relevant data than we do so I wouldn't count them out.
At $329 I think we'll see a much faster adoption in education and business where $499 was simply too much or too big. Sure, there are some that will still say that 7.9 4:3 is still too big and too much at that price but what does that matter? Apple isn't trying to get every possible customer or they would have made a sub-$100 tablet. They are just trying to get every customer that can make them money... and I think this will do it.
Soli, here's my take. As Dick Applebaum said a few days ago, Apple had a chance to be "disruptive" with the iPad Mini. IMO they missed.
How do you know they missed?
There is now a purse sized iOS device with LTE and a month to month no contract plan probably around $30 for 3GB. Using the conservative rule of thumb of 1 mins = 0.5MB then the $30 plan gives you 500 mins of talk time and 2GB of data.
As near as I can tell 80% of my wife's pants have no pockets and she never uses them in the other 20% anyway. The current iPad doesn't fit her purse but the iPad Mini does.
It's a lot bigger than her 4S but it's also a lot more useful. It beats carrying both a kindle and a iPhone.
I can always get her a pre-pay phone as a backup and toss it in to the glove compartment.
Now a LTE iPod Touch would have been a lot more disruptive but I bet the carriers would scream bloody murder.
Now I am looking at maybe picking up a Kindle Fire, just to see what it's like. At $200, that borders on an impulse buy. The fact that I feel this way suggests Apple miscalculated.
I have one and been waiting for the iPad Mini. I have a couple cheap tablets (TouchPad fire sale, Kindle) and we use the our iPad almost exclusively.
That's even considering I have Amazon Prime and some free Amazon Video content.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxMacCary
Look geniuses ....
We're all Apple fans here, that's why we're -- here ....
But we all know, perhaps better than the non-Apple faithful, that not everything's a home run.
You know "Cult Of Mac", right?
They kiss Apple's ass so much, it's embarassing to see themselves described as "journalists".
Well, here's what they have to say about the iPad Mini ....
The iPad Mini was announced today, and frankly, it missed the mark.
The iPad Mini will simply have no effect on non-Apple users.
Apple needed to go $299 or less to make the iPad Mini seep into consumers heads and play devil's advocate.
At $329, that simply isn't going to happen ....
And I agree.
Wholeheartadly.
I looks nice & all, but $330?!?
NOBODY'S GONNA BUY THAT.
Just accept that sooner rather than later & it'll hurt a lot less.
You'll see.
So if they sell one....you will be wrong?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Do you read what you write? If there's a difference then they are not the same.
So when the tegra 3 is packaged with a different GPU it's a completely new generation becasue "there is a difference"?
That would would be a lot of generations of Tegra 3 just this year... Fantastic pace of innovation!
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
The question now is when? 6 months from now, a year from now? I'd love to buy a iPad mini but not if a updated version is coming out in 6 months. See the dilemma Apple caused today? It could potentially cost them to lose sales.
So when a new Android 7 incher gets released every two months, that means that it would be impossible to make a purchasing decision at any given point in time? Which is probably true since that is mostly what i read on android related posts in tech forums. People declaring that they won't buy a product because a "better" one has already been announced (and of course Apple hate...always Apple hate even though the post has nothing to do with Apple).
It's progress. If you feel compelled to wait because of that then you probably do not even need the product at all...
Google just announced a 32GB Nexus 7 for the same price as the 16GB one. In a month they will probably release a 64GB one with the same price. And so on... I'm sure there customers just love that strategy!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
But you're looking at as an extra $30. As you note, maybe it was a drop of $20 to get to a price point that would sell out and kill off the Android market. Remember, Apple doesn't have to match their competiton 1:1 on price to beat them. They offer things their competition simply can't match and this tablet has plenty of that.
Soli, here's my take. As Dick Applebaum said a few days ago, Apple had a chance to be "disruptive" with the iPad Mini. IMO they missed. There's very little that makes it a stand-out product. It won't be as portable as the smaller 7" competitors, which is what I saw mentioned as a primary hope for the Mini by many forum members. It doesn't sport Apple's now-iconic Retina display, which some others felt was a requirement. Not even the emphasis on the Mini as a education device, which many here thought would be the focus at the base end.
Then there's the price. With the intro at this time of the year it's obvious Apple plans to promo this for the holiday gift giving, which is smart. What's not so smart is they could have taken a minimal risk and come in much closer to competitors pricing and really push Mom and Dad to opt Apple rather than "other". And don't try to say Apple doesn't consider something like the Nexus7 as a competitor when Shiller trots them out on stage to compare.
Assume I want to buy a smaller tablet for each of three grandkids. Here in Florida that would set me back about $1056 with tax for the least expensive base model 16GB Wi-Fi Mini. Opting instead for the base Nexus (reportedly a 16GB rather than 8 by the end of the month) would be $639, saving grandpa over $400. Even going for the already shipping 32GB Nexus, doubling Apple's base, I'd still save over $250.
With the pricing and features Apple settled on they've allowed a huge opening for competitors holiday sales, something they apparently decided was less important than holding their traditional margins. Apple no doubt made the best choice for their bottom line, but they had an opportunity to leave the door open only a crack for the competition instead of opening the window too.
I would guess SJ said no because it wasn't time and couldn't make a great product so small then
They will satisfy the crowd willing to pay $329 pretty quickly, after which the price will probably drop to (a still unsatisfactory) $299. The "right" price is $249. However, the iPod touch starts at $299, so they kind of boxed themselves in with a high floor price, unless they want to admit that smaller devices can/should cost more than their larger counterparts.
I was really looking forward to this device. Now I am looking at maybe picking up a Kindle Fire, just to see what it's like. At $200, that borders on an impulse buy. The fact that I feel this way suggests Apple miscalculated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxSampleXX
At $329, this is not particularly attractive. Google and Amazon must be pretty psyched that when Apple had a chance to crush them, it blinked. Well, actually, it got a little too greedy.
They will satisfy the crowd willing to pay $329 pretty quickly, after which the price will probably drop to (a still unsatisfactory) $299. The "right" price is $249. However, the iPod touch starts at $299, so they kind of boxed themselves in with a high floor price, unless they want to admit that smaller devices can/should cost more than their larger counterparts.
I was really looking forward to this device. Now I am looking at maybe picking up a Kindle Fire, just to see what it's like. At $200, that borders on an impulse buy. The fact that I feel this way suggests Apple miscalculated.
Apple has never been one to follow others in a race to the bottom in terms of pricing. With the small tablet market, it is an even more accelerated race to the bottom because they are literally selling them at subsidized prices in hopes that customers will spend enough with the device later to make up the slim margins (or loss) that they made on each sale. But it will definitely be a challenge for Apple to pull this one off with the level of success that they have become accustomed to. Public perception is now that subsidized prices are 'normal' prices and anything higher is out of line or Apple being greedy.
Not the same because it's different manufacturers.
I never said that. Sales do slow down before the refresh date but then picks up exponentially.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
If you look at the MS Surface RT — which I think will sell better than most $199 tablets — it has a weak resolution, is designed only or landscape mode, has no apps or ecosystem, and if you want to make a notebook replacement (which seems to be their goal) you really need the 64GB at $700 plus another $130 for the Type Cover. At that price you might as well just get an ultrabook-class notebook with a Core processor.
I like the comment on the Surface RT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Soli, here's my take. As Dick Applebaum said a few days ago, Apple had a chance to be "disruptive" with the iPad Mini. IMO they missed. There's very little that makes it a stand-out product. It won't be as portable as the smaller 7" competitors, which is what I saw mentioned as a primary hope for the Mini by many forum members. It doesn't sport Apple's now-iconic Retina display, which some others felt was a requirement. Not even the emphasis on the Mini as a education device, which many here thought would be the focus at the base end.
Then there's the price. With the intro at this time of the year it's obvious Apple plans to promo this for the holiday gift giving, which is smart. What's not so smart is they could have taken a minimal risk and come in much closer to competitors pricing and really push Mom and Dad to opt Apple rather than "other". And don't try to say Apple doesn't consider something like the Nexus7 as a competitor when Shiller trots them out on stage to compare.
Assume I want to buy a smaller tablet for each of three grandkids. Here in Florida that would set me back about $1056 with tax for the least expensive base model 16GB Wi-Fi Mini. Opting instead for the base Nexus (reportedly a 16GB rather than 8 by the end of the month) would be $639, saving grandpa over $400. Even going for the already shipping 32GB Nexus, doubling Apple's base, I'd still save over $250.
With the pricing and features Apple settled on they've allowed a huge opening for competitors holiday sales, something they apparently decided was less important than holding their traditional margins. Apple no doubt made the best choice for their bottom line, but they had an opportunity to leave the door open only a crack for the competition instead of opening the window too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
The way Apple pitched this product was a mistake IMO. They should've ignored the competition and focused on how the product was thinner, lighter and a smaller form factor. Focus on the build quality, highlight some of the features like front and rear camera, fast wifi, cellular, etc. And then have a software/app focus to really sell the device. Maybe something education related. But the way Phil sold it was basically focusing on web browsing and saying its better than the 7" tablets because it has a bigger screen. It was kind of a head scratcher that he really didn't say anything to make the higher price seem justified.
Yes and yes. I feel that Schiller dropped the ball this time.
I wished that they could have been more "disruptive" and focus on the long-term instead of just this quarter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
Today's keynote was really, really bad news for the competition.
And my bank account.
This is one of those things we'l have to wait and see to find out. Despite there being cheaper Android tablets (even less than $100) since the iPad launched we still see the iPad starting at $499 dominating. They even updated their flagship product after half a year.
My guess is that Apple worked all this out a long time ago. Adding to their solid history of understanding markets, consumers, and being very disruptive in markets I have to think they have a lot of more relevant data than we do so I wouldn't count them out.
At $329 I think we'll see a much faster adoption in education and business where $499 was simply too much or too big. Sure, there are some that will still say that 7.9 4:3 is still too big and too much at that price but what does that matter? Apple isn't trying to get every possible customer or they would have made a sub-$100 tablet. They are just trying to get every customer that can make them money... and I think this will do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Soli, here's my take. As Dick Applebaum said a few days ago, Apple had a chance to be "disruptive" with the iPad Mini. IMO they missed.
How do you know they missed?
There is now a purse sized iOS device with LTE and a month to month no contract plan probably around $30 for 3GB. Using the conservative rule of thumb of 1 mins = 0.5MB then the $30 plan gives you 500 mins of talk time and 2GB of data.
As near as I can tell 80% of my wife's pants have no pockets and she never uses them in the other 20% anyway. The current iPad doesn't fit her purse but the iPad Mini does.
It's a lot bigger than her 4S but it's also a lot more useful. It beats carrying both a kindle and a iPhone.
I can always get her a pre-pay phone as a backup and toss it in to the glove compartment.
Now a LTE iPod Touch would have been a lot more disruptive but I bet the carriers would scream bloody murder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
How do you know they missed?
I don't know that they missed. That's what IMO means.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
I don't know that they missed. That's what IMO means.
Yah sure...but I think that Apple has been trying to do an end run around the telcos...who aren't stupid and realize that...
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxSampleXX
Now I am looking at maybe picking up a Kindle Fire, just to see what it's like. At $200, that borders on an impulse buy. The fact that I feel this way suggests Apple miscalculated.
I have one and been waiting for the iPad Mini. I have a couple cheap tablets (TouchPad fire sale, Kindle) and we use the our iPad almost exclusively.
That's even considering I have Amazon Prime and some free Amazon Video content.