We've upgraded our Pro multiple times. Bigger drives as they became available. More RAM when it got cheap and we started doing more video intensive work. At one point we were looking at swapping out the video card, and we've added and/or upgraded peripheral I/O PCI cards twice. I don't know why you think people don't actually do upgrades. That flexibility is part of the reason we bought that kind of machine in the first place. Perhaps you don't/wouldn't, but that isn't reason to assume others don't.
I don't think Apple has ever made the Pros hard to update (correct me if I am wrong...), iMacs are consumer machines, so are completely different in Apple's view of the world. Even in the PC world one thing that distinguishes servers from consumer boxes is the presence (or lack thereof) of expansion options.
It's true, they take risks and usually it works out for them. They wait until the right moment though, when there's other options that are affordable, e.g. other options for optical drive: cloud services, usb thumbdrive, sd cards, ad hoc network, external optical drive.
So am I imagining those 3TB drives you can stick in the iMac?
If you're talking about the 21" yes. The entry model is available ONLY with a 5400 RPM drive. The next one at least offers Fusion, but it's still capped at 1GB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel
I have 4 2TB drives in an OWC external for 6TB of extra storage (yay raid 0+parity) and part of that is set aside for my Time Machine backups.
I know what you mean and don't disagree, but what that also says is that with current Macs is that you have to buy the computer *AND* buy external storage to compensate for the flawed internals.
Convergence means all media and apps are becoming executable and streamed and securely backed up on-line, this means in future you only need an IO screen of relevant active resolution to run just about anything this interface world will have to offer live on demand pretty much anywhere anytime.
New computer technology is developed to be compatible with whats coming next and drive new media formats to provide the infrastructure to accommodate and perfect the requirements of the paying customers, the newest generation downloads pay-per-view media and pay-per-song and purchases books and apps on-line, the disc market is reducing at a ever increasing rate and TV and the hifi market are moving to pay-per-viewing/listening over isp, and quality is becoming far less of a question than have you really looked at whats on offer lately.
From my prospective Apple seem to have their finger well and truly on the pulse and the drive is on to increase download speeds to accommodate even the latest 4k streaming with surround 192k sound live on demand, including next generation gaming, my job will be to make my work directly available for this on-line market as that is where I will market and make my living from in future, certainly not by living in the past that's a dead cirt..
I hope Apple will also be as innovative with their upcoming Mac-Pro renovation too, a speedy pro-server supporting several collaborative studio iMacs would be quite ideal for the professional market providing the online media.
If you're talking about the 21" yes. The entry model is available ONLY with a 5400 RPM drive. The next one at least offers Fusion, but it's still capped at 1GB.
I know what you mean and don't disagree, but what that also says is that with current Macs is that you have to buy the computer *AND* buy external storage to compensate for the flawed internals.
Yes the entry model only has the low end. You made it sound like there were no options for higher drives and there are. I had 2 of the drives left over from my old PC before its mobo friend. I intentionally replaced my system w/a Mini, knowing about the lack of expandability, figuring I would do external drives later. Would have been the same if I bought a laptop. I don't see it as an issue.
I'm glad they're only using 5400rpm drives. With the optical drive gone and a 5400rpm drive it should be almost silent.
Or trade up to a Fusion drive and the stuff you use most will be on the silent SSD part. Everything else like music will be on the normal portion and honestly, w/other random house noises like the heat running, I never hear my normal drives. Those 4 drives in my external are all 5400rpm. Of course, I think they're all 32MB cache too heh.
[...] this means in future you only need an IO screen of relevant active resolution to run just about anything this interface world will have to offer live on demand pretty much anywhere anytime.
I don't know that I'm looking forward to trying to run an After Effects session online. The requirements of the minority Pro community dramatically exceed those of the majority consumer community. What's good enough for the living room is NOT necessarily sufficient for content creation and creative. THAT'S why pros are annoyed by the dumbing down of the Mac line.
I'm glad they're only using 5400rpm drives. With the optical drive gone and a 5400rpm drive it should be almost silent.
I know, right? One of my biggest complaints is when I'm rushing to make a deadline, trying to get the files across the network, and I can hear this faint little "whizwhiz" every so often. It's really disruptive to the workflow. Silencing that is WAY more important than getting data off the drive quickly! /s
I don't know that I'm looking forward to trying to run an After Effects session on-line. The requirements of the minority Pro community dramatically exceed those of the majority consumer community. What's good enough for the living room is NOT necessarily sufficient for content creation and creative. THAT'S why pros are annoyed by the dumbing down of the Mac line.
I hear you bro, that's why I also commented on...
Quote:
I hope Apple will also be as innovative with their upcoming Mac-Pro renovation too, a speedy pro-server supporting several collaborative studio iMacs would be quite ideal for the professional market providing the on-line media.
The iMac screen is perfect quality for most professional requirements but needs the additional processing oomph of a rack support processor/server, the mac-mini server or multiples thereof serves home and small office duties and I believe the next MacPro should be capable of mixing it with the best studio requirements, many professional creative studios I'm sure would be happy with iMacs as app work terminals offloading the post heavy render lifting to a suitable pci MacPro server or multiples thereof built up to requirements leaving the iMacs instantly free for editing the next job along, hence enhanced pro_ductivity.
I would be quite prepared to reconsider returning to the mac fold if this were the case, wouldn't you?.
... I know what you mean and don't disagree, but what that also says is that with current Macs is that you have to buy the computer *AND* buy external storage to compensate for the flawed internals.
Oh, the way language is butchered. There isn't anything "flawed" with the internals, they work just fine.
Cook and Schiller are becoming increasingly arrogant and snotty in these presentations. Love Apple's stuff, but kept wincing during the keynote at the number of times they sounded completely full of themselves.
I don't think Apple has ever made the Pros hard to update (correct me if I am wrong...)
Technically true. Since the Mac Pro came out, it has always been easy to upgrade (VERY easy).
However, some of Apple's earlier Pro machines were disasters from an upgrade perspective. The PowerMac 8600 and 9600 were horrible to upgrade. But that's ancient history.
Cook and Schiller are becoming increasingly arrogant and snotty in these presentations. Love Apple's stuff, but kept wincing during the keynote at the number of times they sounded completely full of themselves.
No, it's more "they're not as good at slipping Steveisms in undetected". Their delivery is the problem, and it can be improved if they actually work on it.
Yes, really. My Canopus gets my cherished moments from VHS onto HDD/SSD. FW400 only. But if the next PM doesn't have FW but TB I'll simply get a different Canopus, or whatever box. If I'm not done by then.
[...] but they might surprise me. Just like people buying Blue-Ray DVD's.
I buy my media on optical discs because it's harder for the creator to dictate how and where and when I can view it, unlike the @#$%&!!! DRM-encumbered movies on the iTunes store.
Is that still DRM-ed? But one can sync it to an iPad? I do think a digital copy is a lot better than an OD; can't stick it in my comfy 747 chair so the creator is dictating I cannot easily watch a DVD during flight.
When you insert a DVD into a PC running a clean copy of Windows XP, Windows Media Player would launch and tell you that Windows doesn't ship with a codec for playing back DVD video…
That really was the pits! What were they thinking? An 1997 invention, not supported in an 2001 OS? From MS, really? I was flabbergasted.
We've upgraded our Pro multiple times. Bigger drives as they became available. More RAM when it got cheap and we started doing more video intensive work. At one point we were looking at swapping out the video card, and we've added and/or upgraded peripheral I/O PCI cards twice. I don't know why you think people don't actually do upgrades. That flexibility is part of the reason we bought that kind of machine in the first place. Perhaps you don't/wouldn't, but that isn't reason to assume others don't.
It's a fantastic machine, isn't it? Also their cheapest, considering you won't need to get a new display at every iteration of the iMac.
I don't think Apple has ever made the Pros hard to update (correct me if I am wrong...), iMacs are consumer machines, so are completely different in Apple's view of the world.
You're right; they haven't Not with the MP, not with the G4, G3. Indeed, iMacs are consumer PC's, and them being All-in-One of course you can't upgrade them. Why people think you should be able to is beyond me. Don't they look at all the offerings from Apple before making a decision?
I don't know that I'm looking forward to trying to run an After Effects session online. The requirements of the minority Pro community dramatically exceed those of the majority consumer community. What's good enough for the living room is NOT necessarily sufficient for content creation and creative. THAT'S why pros are annoyed by the dumbing down of the Mac line.
Strange to think Pro's would buy an iMac. Don't these Pro's understand the limitations of the iMac, and should begetting a MP instead?
Technically true. Since the Mac Pro came out, it has always been easy to upgrade (VERY easy).
However, some of Apple's earlier Pro machines were disasters from an upgrade perspective. The PowerMac 8600 and 9600 were horrible to upgrade. But that's ancient history.
Was easy even before the MP; the PowerMac G5, G4 was also easy, Heck the whole Mac would come out on the side!
We never had a problem with replacing the HDD's in those 9600's. What was difficult for you?
Yes, really. My Canopus gets my cherished moments from VHS onto HDD/SSD. FW400 only. But if the next PM doesn't have FW but TB I'll simply get a different Canopus, or whatever box. If I'm not done by then.
1) Why not just the TB-to-FW800 adapter and then an adapter for FW800-to-FW400?
2) FW400 and VHS are very old technologies, as you are aware. That isn't to say they aren't still useful but no one using them should expect any company to stll support them, especially not Apple.
Strange to think Pro's would buy an iMac. Don't these Pro's understand the limitations of the iMac, and should begetting a MP instead?
That is fully dependent on the type of "Pro" you are. I do very little in the way of "processing" that really warrants the power of an iMac. In fact, I've been a "Pro" with my notebook PCs for well over a decade. The iMac will be my first at home Desktop "PC" in about 14 years, save for an old iMac with the swivel head that I bought for someone but then have connected as a remote machine to connect to my network routing equipment.
I am also on the Nvidia GeForce 320M. This iMac will be a huge upgrade in performance but all I'm really needing/wanting is the 27" display. Maybe my projects in Xcode will compile faster but I'm not at a point yet in my coding where my apps are big enough to require the extra power of a Mac Pro over a 2010 13" MBP.
Then you have professional writers. I bet most of them would prefer a notebook. You don't need extra HW performance to keep up with keystrokes (unless you are using the Surface RT )
That said, I do plan on getting the fastest model with 2x8GB RAM and Fusion Drive.
Yes, really. My Canopus gets my cherished moments from VHS onto HDD/SSD. FW400 only. But if the next PM doesn't have FW but TB I'll simply get a different Canopus, or whatever box. If I'm not done by then.
1) Why not just the TB-to-FW800 adapter and then an adapter for FW800-to-FW400?
2) FW400 and VHS are very old technologies, as you are aware. That isn't to say they aren't still useful but no one using them should expect any company to stll support them, especially not Apple.
1) Good point; that should work.
2) Yep, I am aware. And all will go to the dumpster once all is digitized. And yes, Apple shouldn't hang on to old tech, and I'm certain the new MP won't be getting FW.
Strange to think Pro's would buy an iMac. Don't these Pro's understand the limitations of the iMac, and should begetting a MP instead?
That is fully dependent on the type of "Pro" you are. I do very little in the way of "processing" that really warrants the power of an iMac. In fact, I've been a "Pro" with my notebook PCs for well over a decade. The iMac will be my first at home Desktop "PC" in about 14 years, save for an old iMac with the swivel head that I bought for someone but then have connected as a remote machine to connect to my network routing equipment.
I am also on the Nvidia GeForce 320M. This iMac will be a huge upgrade in performance but all I'm really needing/wanting is the 27" display. Maybe my projects in Xcode will compile faster but I'm not at a point yet in my coding where my apps are big enough to require the extra power of a Mac Pro over a 2010 13" MBP.
Then you have professional writers. I bet most of them would prefer a notebook. You don't need extra HW performance to keep up with keystrokes (unless you are using the Surface RT )
That said, I do plan on getting the fastest model with 2x8GB RAM and Fusion Drive.
Haha the keystroke lag! I read @ AnandTech that it didn't catch all strokes.
I'm positive you're going to like that iMac, ETA Nov 23, no? From what you wrote here it is entirely possible that a Mini would've sufficed as well. A crying shame you can't get the 30" ACD anymore. I really hope the glare on those 27" screens aren't that visibly (or annoying) - I simply couldn't get anything other than the MP + ACD back in 2010 as I use it for my photography hobby.
Any apps you create commercially? With your vast amount of informative posts I'd be interested in what you've created.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v
We've upgraded our Pro multiple times. Bigger drives as they became available. More RAM when it got cheap and we started doing more video intensive work. At one point we were looking at swapping out the video card, and we've added and/or upgraded peripheral I/O PCI cards twice. I don't know why you think people don't actually do upgrades. That flexibility is part of the reason we bought that kind of machine in the first place. Perhaps you don't/wouldn't, but that isn't reason to assume others don't.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }I don't think Apple has ever made the Pros hard to update (correct me if I am wrong...), iMacs are consumer machines, so are completely different in Apple's view of the world. Even in the PC world one thing that distinguishes servers from consumer boxes is the presence (or lack thereof) of expansion options.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
It's true, they take risks and usually it works out for them. They wait until the right moment though, when there's other options that are affordable, e.g. other options for optical drive: cloud services, usb thumbdrive, sd cards, ad hoc network, external optical drive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel
So am I imagining those 3TB drives you can stick in the iMac?
If you're talking about the 21" yes. The entry model is available ONLY with a 5400 RPM drive. The next one at least offers Fusion, but it's still capped at 1GB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel
I have 4 2TB drives in an OWC external for 6TB of extra storage (yay raid 0+parity) and part of that is set aside for my Time Machine backups.
I know what you mean and don't disagree, but what that also says is that with current Macs is that you have to buy the computer *AND* buy external storage to compensate for the flawed internals.
Convergence means all media and apps are becoming executable and streamed and securely backed up on-line, this means in future you only need an IO screen of relevant active resolution to run just about anything this interface world will have to offer live on demand pretty much anywhere anytime.
New computer technology is developed to be compatible with whats coming next and drive new media formats to provide the infrastructure to accommodate and perfect the requirements of the paying customers, the newest generation downloads pay-per-view media and pay-per-song and purchases books and apps on-line, the disc market is reducing at a ever increasing rate and TV and the hifi market are moving to pay-per-viewing/listening over isp, and quality is becoming far less of a question than have you really looked at whats on offer lately.
From my prospective Apple seem to have their finger well and truly on the pulse and the drive is on to increase download speeds to accommodate even the latest 4k streaming with surround 192k sound live on demand, including next generation gaming, my job will be to make my work directly available for this on-line market as that is where I will market and make my living from in future, certainly not by living in the past that's a dead cirt..
I hope Apple will also be as innovative with their upcoming Mac-Pro renovation too, a speedy pro-server supporting several collaborative studio iMacs would be quite ideal for the professional market providing the online media.
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v
If you're talking about the 21" yes. The entry model is available ONLY with a 5400 RPM drive. The next one at least offers Fusion, but it's still capped at 1GB.
I know what you mean and don't disagree, but what that also says is that with current Macs is that you have to buy the computer *AND* buy external storage to compensate for the flawed internals.
Yes the entry model only has the low end. You made it sound like there were no options for higher drives and there are. I had 2 of the drives left over from my old PC before its mobo friend. I intentionally replaced my system w/a Mini, knowing about the lack of expandability, figuring I would do external drives later. Would have been the same if I bought a laptop. I don't see it as an issue.
I'm glad they're only using 5400rpm drives. With the optical drive gone and a 5400rpm drive it should be almost silent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii
I'm glad they're only using 5400rpm drives. With the optical drive gone and a 5400rpm drive it should be almost silent.
Or trade up to a Fusion drive and the stuff you use most will be on the silent SSD part. Everything else like music will be on the normal portion and honestly, w/other random house noises like the heat running, I never hear my normal drives. Those 4 drives in my external are all 5400rpm. Of course, I think they're all 32MB cache too heh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanMc
[...] this means in future you only need an IO screen of relevant active resolution to run just about anything this interface world will have to offer live on demand pretty much anywhere anytime.
I don't know that I'm looking forward to trying to run an After Effects session online. The requirements of the minority Pro community dramatically exceed those of the majority consumer community. What's good enough for the living room is NOT necessarily sufficient for content creation and creative. THAT'S why pros are annoyed by the dumbing down of the Mac line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii
I'm glad they're only using 5400rpm drives. With the optical drive gone and a 5400rpm drive it should be almost silent.
I know, right? One of my biggest complaints is when I'm rushing to make a deadline, trying to get the files across the network, and I can hear this faint little "whizwhiz" every so often. It's really disruptive to the workflow. Silencing that is WAY more important than getting data off the drive quickly! /s
It also makes sure nothing can come loose in transit so a good saving in costs are made there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v
I don't know that I'm looking forward to trying to run an After Effects session on-line. The requirements of the minority Pro community dramatically exceed those of the majority consumer community. What's good enough for the living room is NOT necessarily sufficient for content creation and creative. THAT'S why pros are annoyed by the dumbing down of the Mac line.
I hear you bro, that's why I also commented on...
Quote:
I hope Apple will also be as innovative with their upcoming Mac-Pro renovation too, a speedy pro-server supporting several collaborative studio iMacs would be quite ideal for the professional market providing the on-line media.
The iMac screen is perfect quality for most professional requirements but needs the additional processing oomph of a rack support processor/server, the mac-mini server or multiples thereof serves home and small office duties and I believe the next MacPro should be capable of mixing it with the best studio requirements, many professional creative studios I'm sure would be happy with iMacs as app work terminals offloading the post heavy render lifting to a suitable pci MacPro server or multiples thereof built up to requirements leaving the iMacs instantly free for editing the next job along, hence enhanced pro_ductivity.
I would be quite prepared to reconsider returning to the mac fold if this were the case, wouldn't you?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v
... I know what you mean and don't disagree, but what that also says is that with current Macs is that you have to buy the computer *AND* buy external storage to compensate for the flawed internals.
Oh, the way language is butchered. There isn't anything "flawed" with the internals, they work just fine.
Technically true. Since the Mac Pro came out, it has always been easy to upgrade (VERY easy).
However, some of Apple's earlier Pro machines were disasters from an upgrade perspective. The PowerMac 8600 and 9600 were horrible to upgrade. But that's ancient history.
Originally Posted by Drac
Cook and Schiller are becoming increasingly arrogant and snotty in these presentations. Love Apple's stuff, but kept wincing during the keynote at the number of times they sounded completely full of themselves.
No, it's more "they're not as good at slipping Steveisms in undetected". Their delivery is the problem, and it can be improved if they actually work on it.
Yes, really. My Canopus gets my cherished moments from VHS onto HDD/SSD. FW400 only. But if the next PM doesn't have FW but TB I'll simply get a different Canopus, or whatever box. If I'm not done by then.
Fully agree with your post, nonetheless.
Is that still DRM-ed? But one can sync it to an iPad? I do think a digital copy is a lot better than an OD; can't stick it in my comfy 747 chair so the creator is dictating I cannot easily watch a DVD during flight.
Why would they do that if they sell a Pro mac themselves? And I'd hardly want to call the iMac a fashion accessory.
Ease of use. Just sync a couple of vids to your iPad. Your carrying an iPad anyway, so no need for extra discs to carry.
I wish they'd ask $999 for the 16GB model so we'd have less people complaining about the price!
That really was the pits! What were they thinking? An 1997 invention, not supported in an 2001 OS? From MS, really? I was flabbergasted.
It's a fantastic machine, isn't it? Also their cheapest, considering you won't need to get a new display at every iteration of the iMac.
You're right; they haven't Not with the MP, not with the G4, G3. Indeed, iMacs are consumer PC's, and them being All-in-One of course you can't upgrade them. Why people think you should be able to is beyond me. Don't they look at all the offerings from Apple before making a decision?
Strange to think Pro's would buy an iMac. Don't these Pro's understand the limitations of the iMac, and should begetting a MP instead?
Was easy even before the MP; the PowerMac G5, G4 was also easy, Heck the whole Mac would come out on the side!
We never had a problem with replacing the HDD's in those 9600's. What was difficult for you?
1) Why not just the TB-to-FW800 adapter and then an adapter for FW800-to-FW400?
2) FW400 and VHS are very old technologies, as you are aware. That isn't to say they aren't still useful but no one using them should expect any company to stll support them, especially not Apple.
That is fully dependent on the type of "Pro" you are. I do very little in the way of "processing" that really warrants the power of an iMac. In fact, I've been a "Pro" with my notebook PCs for well over a decade. The iMac will be my first at home Desktop "PC" in about 14 years, save for an old iMac with the swivel head that I bought for someone but then have connected as a remote machine to connect to my network routing equipment.
I am also on the Nvidia GeForce 320M. This iMac will be a huge upgrade in performance but all I'm really needing/wanting is the 27" display. Maybe my projects in Xcode will compile faster but I'm not at a point yet in my coding where my apps are big enough to require the extra power of a Mac Pro over a 2010 13" MBP.
Then you have professional writers. I bet most of them would prefer a notebook. You don't need extra HW performance to keep up with keystrokes (unless you are using the Surface RT
That said, I do plan on getting the fastest model with 2x8GB RAM and Fusion Drive.
1) Good point; that should work.
2) Yep, I am aware. And all will go to the dumpster once all is digitized. And yes, Apple shouldn't hang on to old tech, and I'm certain the new MP won't be getting FW.
Haha the keystroke lag! I read @ AnandTech that it didn't catch all strokes.
I'm positive you're going to like that iMac, ETA Nov 23, no? From what you wrote here it is entirely possible that a Mini would've sufficed as well. A crying shame you can't get the 30" ACD anymore. I really hope the glare on those 27" screens aren't that visibly (or annoying) - I simply couldn't get anything other than the MP + ACD back in 2010 as I use it for my photography hobby.
Any apps you create commercially? With your vast amount of informative posts I'd be interested in what you've created.