The problem with that is at the business level. A lot of business software is still optical media only. Apple is slowly refusing to deal with businesses . So they have the luxury of removing optical drives.
I can't believe there are IT departments still using optical disks to distribute anything. I don't think I have seen an optical disk at work in the last ten years. Even if work computers are cut off from the internet (don't see much of that anymore either), surely they are on an internal network and software/updates proceed form a central IT server? We have both Linux/Windows machines at work and all software/updates are pushed to us from IT over the network.
These days home or work often there are multiple computers networked together. Can't macs also mount an Optical drive over the network that is in another computer? So even if you do occasionally need Optical, you don't need every computer to have it. Just one.
I am really struggling to believe there is much need for an optical drive today and home or at work. A further if there is, you can mount the optical drive in another computer, which there must be plenty if the need was so pressing.
<span style="font-size:small;line-height:16px;">I have to disagree with him on one front. Although I do not use it all the time I love my blu-ray drive (I use the old PS3 more). Watching movies in HD while I am working is sweet (I prefer blu-ray because they normally have better quality, and are cheaper and trade-able). I do like to burn dvds for my grandmother with my </span>
<span style="font-size:small;line-height:16px;">niece</span>
<span style="font-size:small;line-height:16px;"> and nephew. For some many disc drive is two important to trade away like the millions who live in areas with crappy internet connections.</span>
I think Apple has made the iMac less valuable to students. Students still use their computers to do things like burn CDs, DVDs, and watch movies. I still use my Macbook to do these things.
With that said, Apple was never going to put a Blue Ray drive in the Mac because the licensing restrictions essentially required one to lock down the whole system with restrictive DRM. The DRM effected performance even when the Blue Ray drive wasn't operating. There were several well written articles by well respected experts explaining how Windows was taking a performance hit over incorporating Blue Ray. Jobs explained the issue briefly himself saying Apple didn't like the licensing requirements.
The problem with that is at the business level. A lot of business software is still optical media only. Apple is slowly refusing to deal with businesses . So they have the luxury of removing optical drives.
This is true. I am an attorney. I have software that is Windows only, which I run through Parallels. The company whose software I need sent me the new version of the software on a CD. CDs and DVDs for some small software companies are more cost effective. If costs them less to send a CD or DVD then it does to host the infrastructure to make the software available online. Moreover, businesses often times host a plethora of different machines ranging in age and are slow to adapt to IT changes.
I really like how Apple is not afraid to get rid of legacy technology. I, however, am not sure I always agree with Apple what is legacy hardware. Along with myself, I still have friends that burn CDs. I remember when Apple did away with Firewire on some of its Macs about two years BEFORE Thunderbolt was announced. It is true a lot of people weren't using Firewire, but for people who have been using Macs for a long time Firewire was wonderful. I often times used it to impress PC friends. Being able to boot a Mac up in Target Disk Mode was indispensable to fixing many problems. It was also great for cloning an old Mac to a New Mac. USB came no where close in terms of ability and speed. I haven't tried Thunderbolt. I hope it has the same capabilities as Firewire.
What also drives me crazy about Apple is its refusal to put in options. It released Safari 4 as a public beta with tabs on top. Jobs touted it as great on stage. I agreed. According to polls half the community loved it, half hated it. When Apple pulled the beta, it removed tabs from on top. The right move would have been to leave tabs on top, but give an option to switch to the old way. You could do that in the beta using the terminal. When the final version shipped, however, Apple also removed the ability to make changes in the terminal. I was so mad at Apple, I switched to Chrome for about a year. I suspect Apple lost a few others to Chrome over that.
Been to college recently? This really isn't the case.
Yes, actually I am taking classes currently. I love going to school, and probably will die taking classes. I can only speak from my perspective, but I know plenty of people who still buy and share music on CDs. Of course they listen to it on their iPods or iPhones. I also will time shift my DVD rentals. I also have friends who are film makers who frequently use the Macs DVD burning capabilities. Come to think of it my photographer friend uses the CD burner to give folks a hard copy of photos she has taken.
Yes, actually I am taking classes currently. I love going to school, and probably will die taking classes. I can only speak from my perspective, but I know plenty of people who still buy and share music on CDs. Of course they listen to it on their iPods or iPhones. I also will time shift my DVD rentals. I also have friends who are film makers who frequently use the Macs DVD burning capabilities. Come to think of it my photographer friend uses the CD burner to give folks a hard copy of photos she has taken.
I have put my kids through high school and now college. Only twice have I had to buy CDs for them, and that was a few years ago. The scenario you describe is a shrinking minority. Apple does not give 2 seconds of thinking to such a market sector.
You know how the optical disk drive got eliminated? It wasn't just a wild idea. It was a series of small indignities, one after another that did it in.
LOL. People in the year 2021 will look at that photo and think: shiny plastic disks were sooo early 2000s, now they're in landfills. Back then, computers were these big boxes on desktops with keyboards, mice, and boxy CRT monitors, like in those old movies from the era. The people loaded media and software from these shiny plastic disks onto their brand new Packard-Bell PCs...
<span style="color:rgb(24,24,24);font-family:'lucida grande', verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;line-height:normal;background-color:rgb(226,225,225);">"Even if the market was going there, we weren't going to chase everybody downhill,"</span>
That attitude keeps them at the top of all technology companies in the world.
Yep. They create for the common market but in a way that it can be expanded for other needs. Plugins for Aperture, Final Cut, external optical drives etc. you need it, get it. But the majority don't so why make them pay for something they won't use.
Unlike PCs, that try to be everything for everyone. What's the saying, jack of all trades but master of none.
Steve etc were smart enough to see that a tablet doesn't work as a full computer for several reasons so they didn't try. Microsoft may be about to learn this lesson in a very very hard way
Count how many times in a year when you actually use the ODD.
Maybe ten times. What blu rays I have I use with a standalone player and a 60 inch TV. For backups etc I use a hard drive or a thumb drive for sharing.
This doesn't explain the Mac Pro. Sure you can do a lot of things with 7" screens, but for some reason back in 1988 Apple saw the wisdom of making computers that could handle more screen size. Now all of a sudden Apple thinks a modern computer should not allow more than two screens? Good grief, all they have to do is put USB and thunderbolt in the Mac Pro and problem solved. Sure, go ahead, do something different, who cares what, but do something! What rationale could there be for abandoning the market for multiple screen flexible setups altogether?
Nobody is going to buy a computer these days without thunderbolt or USB3, certainly not a Mac Pro. What are they thinking?
How do they think that? The new Retina MBP (I believe both 15 and 13") is capable of running 2 monitors via TB and another from HDMI. Look 3 monitors! If they can manage 3 monitors on a MBP, I don't think the new Mac Pro next year will be lacking that ability
But you are still carrying something extra. So the argument that you don't want to carry something extra falls apart because you are still carrying something extras with those discs
Good grief, all they have to do is put USB and thunderbolt in the Mac Pro and problem solved.
Hardly. If it doesn't have 200 GB of better than lightening fast RAM, a processor so latest and greatest that it won't be invented for another decade and graphics better than NASA etc have in a pretty box that makes no noise, never gets warm much less hot and costs less than $1000 it's over priced trash.
So what that 99.9% of folks making such demands will never use more than 1/10th of the machines power and will never actually so any upgrades. They just want it to want it
[...] So what that 99.9% of folks making such demands will never use more than 1/10th of the machines power and will never actually so any upgrades. They just want it to want it
We've upgraded our Pro multiple times. Bigger drives as they became available. More RAM when it got cheap and we started doing more video intensive work. At one point we were looking at swapping out the video card, and we've added and/or upgraded peripheral I/O PCI cards twice. I don't know why you think people don't actually do upgrades. That flexibility is part of the reason we bought that kind of machine in the first place. Perhaps you don't/wouldn't, but that isn't reason to assume others don't.
Why force everyone to buy an internal disc, whether they want one or not ....... when you can easily give 100% of the consumers the choice .... with an external one. So just wtf are you complaining about?
Because it's no cheaper so essentially you weren't buying an internal disc, you got it for free.
So on that basis we see the flip side of your argument. Why force everyone to not have an internal disc, whether they want one or not.
No. 12x Blu-Ray tops out at 432Mbit. USB 2 tops out at 480.
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v
"No compromise?!" How about making the chassis so thin that there's no room for a high capacity drive? Or cramming stuff in so tight that it can no longer dissipate heat effectively enough to allow for even a high speed version of the mini drive? Those not only meet the accepted definition of "compromise," they also do a lot more than just hint at "Form over function."
So am I imagining those 3TB drives you can stick in the iMac? 3TB, 1TB Fusion or 3TB Fusion. Sounds like decent options to me. I have 4 2TB drives in an OWC external for 6TB of extra storage (yay raid 0+parity) and part of that is set aside for my Time Machine backups. Apple sells externals strictly for that purpose w/Time Capsules. If you aren't using the possibilities to their fullest, yeah ya might be worried about data loss. About the only problem I'm looking at is lightning killing everything at once.
The G4 Cube was being talked about on the prior pages and I just wanted to mention that the Cube is what really jumped out at me and said Apple could pull off some amazing stuff. Price it $200 lower at launch and maybe that model would have lasted. Part of me still wants one
Comments
I can't believe there are IT departments still using optical disks to distribute anything. I don't think I have seen an optical disk at work in the last ten years. Even if work computers are cut off from the internet (don't see much of that anymore either), surely they are on an internal network and software/updates proceed form a central IT server? We have both Linux/Windows machines at work and all software/updates are pushed to us from IT over the network.
These days home or work often there are multiple computers networked together. Can't macs also mount an Optical drive over the network that is in another computer? So even if you do occasionally need Optical, you don't need every computer to have it. Just one.
I am really struggling to believe there is much need for an optical drive today and home or at work. A further if there is, you can mount the optical drive in another computer, which there must be plenty if the need was so pressing.
I think Apple has made the iMac less valuable to students. Students still use their computers to do things like burn CDs, DVDs, and watch movies. I still use my Macbook to do these things.
With that said, Apple was never going to put a Blue Ray drive in the Mac because the licensing restrictions essentially required one to lock down the whole system with restrictive DRM. The DRM effected performance even when the Blue Ray drive wasn't operating. There were several well written articles by well respected experts explaining how Windows was taking a performance hit over incorporating Blue Ray. Jobs explained the issue briefly himself saying Apple didn't like the licensing requirements.
This is true. I am an attorney. I have software that is Windows only, which I run through Parallels. The company whose software I need sent me the new version of the software on a CD. CDs and DVDs for some small software companies are more cost effective. If costs them less to send a CD or DVD then it does to host the infrastructure to make the software available online. Moreover, businesses often times host a plethora of different machines ranging in age and are slow to adapt to IT changes.
I really like how Apple is not afraid to get rid of legacy technology. I, however, am not sure I always agree with Apple what is legacy hardware. Along with myself, I still have friends that burn CDs. I remember when Apple did away with Firewire on some of its Macs about two years BEFORE Thunderbolt was announced. It is true a lot of people weren't using Firewire, but for people who have been using Macs for a long time Firewire was wonderful. I often times used it to impress PC friends. Being able to boot a Mac up in Target Disk Mode was indispensable to fixing many problems. It was also great for cloning an old Mac to a New Mac. USB came no where close in terms of ability and speed. I haven't tried Thunderbolt. I hope it has the same capabilities as Firewire.
What also drives me crazy about Apple is its refusal to put in options. It released Safari 4 as a public beta with tabs on top. Jobs touted it as great on stage. I agreed. According to polls half the community loved it, half hated it. When Apple pulled the beta, it removed tabs from on top. The right move would have been to leave tabs on top, but give an option to switch to the old way. You could do that in the beta using the terminal. When the final version shipped, however, Apple also removed the ability to make changes in the terminal. I was so mad at Apple, I switched to Chrome for about a year. I suspect Apple lost a few others to Chrome over that.
Originally Posted by TBell
Students still use their computers to do things like burn CDs, DVDs, and watch movies.
Been to college recently? This really isn't the case.
Yes, actually I am taking classes currently. I love going to school, and probably will die taking classes. I can only speak from my perspective, but I know plenty of people who still buy and share music on CDs. Of course they listen to it on their iPods or iPhones. I also will time shift my DVD rentals. I also have friends who are film makers who frequently use the Macs DVD burning capabilities. Come to think of it my photographer friend uses the CD burner to give folks a hard copy of photos she has taken.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell
Yes, actually I am taking classes currently. I love going to school, and probably will die taking classes. I can only speak from my perspective, but I know plenty of people who still buy and share music on CDs. Of course they listen to it on their iPods or iPhones. I also will time shift my DVD rentals. I also have friends who are film makers who frequently use the Macs DVD burning capabilities. Come to think of it my photographer friend uses the CD burner to give folks a hard copy of photos she has taken.
I have put my kids through high school and now college. Only twice have I had to buy CDs for them, and that was a few years ago. The scenario you describe is a shrinking minority. Apple does not give 2 seconds of thinking to such a market sector.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky
You know how the optical disk drive got eliminated? It wasn't just a wild idea. It was a series of small indignities, one after another that did it in.
LOL. People in the year 2021 will look at that photo and think: shiny plastic disks were sooo early 2000s, now they're in landfills. Back then, computers were these big boxes on desktops with keyboards, mice, and boxy CRT monitors, like in those old movies from the era. The people loaded media and software from these shiny plastic disks onto their brand new Packard-Bell PCs...
Yep. They create for the common market but in a way that it can be expanded for other needs. Plugins for Aperture, Final Cut, external optical drives etc. you need it, get it. But the majority don't so why make them pay for something they won't use.
Unlike PCs, that try to be everything for everyone. What's the saying, jack of all trades but master of none.
Steve etc were smart enough to see that a tablet doesn't work as a full computer for several reasons so they didn't try. Microsoft may be about to learn this lesson in a very very hard way
Maybe ten times. What blu rays I have I use with a standalone player and a 60 inch TV. For backups etc I use a hard drive or a thumb drive for sharing.
That you don't want to change is your issue, not Apples. If they catered to everyone like you we'd still have 5&1/4 drives in machines
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralphbu
This doesn't explain the Mac Pro. Sure you can do a lot of things with 7" screens, but for some reason back in 1988 Apple saw the wisdom of making computers that could handle more screen size. Now all of a sudden Apple thinks a modern computer should not allow more than two screens? Good grief, all they have to do is put USB and thunderbolt in the Mac Pro and problem solved. Sure, go ahead, do something different, who cares what, but do something! What rationale could there be for abandoning the market for multiple screen flexible setups altogether?
Nobody is going to buy a computer these days without thunderbolt or USB3, certainly not a Mac Pro. What are they thinking?
How do they think that? The new Retina MBP (I believe both 15 and 13") is capable of running 2 monitors via TB and another from HDMI. Look 3 monitors! If they can manage 3 monitors on a MBP, I don't think the new Mac Pro next year will be lacking that ability
But you are still carrying something extra. So the argument that you don't want to carry something extra falls apart because you are still carrying something extras with those discs
How many folks really need to be able to do such upgrades.
Hardly. If it doesn't have 200 GB of better than lightening fast RAM, a processor so latest and greatest that it won't be invented for another decade and graphics better than NASA etc have in a pretty box that makes no noise, never gets warm much less hot and costs less than $1000 it's over priced trash.
So what that 99.9% of folks making such demands will never use more than 1/10th of the machines power and will never actually so any upgrades. They just want it to want it
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
[...] So what that 99.9% of folks making such demands will never use more than 1/10th of the machines power and will never actually so any upgrades. They just want it to want it
We've upgraded our Pro multiple times. Bigger drives as they became available. More RAM when it got cheap and we started doing more video intensive work. At one point we were looking at swapping out the video card, and we've added and/or upgraded peripheral I/O PCI cards twice. I don't know why you think people don't actually do upgrades. That flexibility is part of the reason we bought that kind of machine in the first place. Perhaps you don't/wouldn't, but that isn't reason to assume others don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee
Why force everyone to buy an internal disc, whether they want one or not ....... when you can easily give 100% of the consumers the choice .... with an external one. So just wtf are you complaining about?
Because it's no cheaper so essentially you weren't buying an internal disc, you got it for free.
So on that basis we see the flip side of your argument. Why force everyone to not have an internal disc, whether they want one or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Can Blu-ray even saturate a USB 3 port?No. 12x Blu-Ray tops out at 432Mbit. USB 2 tops out at 480.
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v
"No compromise?!" How about making the chassis so thin that there's no room for a high capacity drive? Or cramming stuff in so tight that it can no longer dissipate heat effectively enough to allow for even a high speed version of the mini drive? Those not only meet the accepted definition of "compromise," they also do a lot more than just hint at "Form over function."
http://www.apple.com/imac/specs/
So am I imagining those 3TB drives you can stick in the iMac? 3TB, 1TB Fusion or 3TB Fusion. Sounds like decent options to me. I have 4 2TB drives in an OWC external for 6TB of extra storage (yay raid 0+parity) and part of that is set aside for my Time Machine backups. Apple sells externals strictly for that purpose w/Time Capsules. If you aren't using the possibilities to their fullest, yeah ya might be worried about data loss. About the only problem I'm looking at is lightning killing everything at once.
The G4 Cube was being talked about on the prior pages and I just wanted to mention that the Cube is what really jumped out at me and said Apple could pull off some amazing stuff. Price it $200 lower at launch and maybe that model would have lasted. Part of me still wants one
Originally Posted by SSquirrel
No. 12x Blu-Ray tops out at 432Mbit.
Wow. Barely surpasses FireWire 400. And why would anyone on Earth want to use this, again?