I think iOS7 is going to make or break the iPhone for a lot of people. iOS6 to me was the least interesting, least innovative update yet, messing with and kind of clunking up things like app store, podcasts, maps, relatively useless ticket app, ugly icon tiles for facebook twitter print etc, lack of widget and lock screen customization. None of it is terrible, but none of it's A anymore. Feels like nobody is talking over there, nobody managing it all. This is all coming from a huge apple fan, who's used an iPhone since 3G. It seems like they're struggling lately, the new iTunes 11 having issues, maps of couse, whatever is going on with Ive taking over Forstall. They need to seriously come out with a massive iOS7, not just a few tiny tweeks, to convince people they're still number one. The hardware's always been great, but we've hit a point where it's all about the software. They're coasting on 3rd party apps, but they've got more power than anyone, can do whatever they want, can hire whoever they want to help, and they're playing things way too safe.
I tend to agree. I know a couple of people who always were strong supporters of the iPhone and its iOS but increasingly find the grass at least as green over there. So the one major plus remains the phone's build quality. Personally, I would like to have more home screen options or a widget page on the search page like dashboard in MacOS, ability to remove (for me) useless standard apps.
While its of course evolution after revolution I agree that the increments are getting smaller from a user perception standpoint (meaning: I guess many do not really care whether maps come from apple or someone else and do not see the effort involved because it is not a new feature in itself).
Actually, Dick, "I" don't have to be dissatisfied to feel that Cook's job is tentative. He, in my opinion, isn't the most important guy on the team. I think that Ive is the most important guy, but Ive is also not a Steve Jobs.
Steve Jobs was not even the best idea guy, but he was definitely the guy who could plainly see which ideas would work and which ones wouldn't. He had a vision of where he wanted to take Apple. His track record speaks for itself.
Cook on the other hand hasn't shown us yet where he wants to take Apple and, in my opinion, if he has then I'm not sure about his route. A few heads have rolled and we can't necessarily say the right ones have been tossed out the door. That happens... again, we can look at Steve Jobs history with Apple as an example. Rubbing people the wrong way might not be the worst trait one can have in the Apple corporate world.
As I said... more at 6...
I am not sure about this. I think Cook may stick around for quite a while because he is the keeper of Steve's vision and I believe he is managing the ship quite well. To hold the fact that he has not clearly signalled where Apple is going against him is unfair. He has signalled that Apple is continuing in the direction that is well laid out for the time being. No change of direction required. And yet I feel that the future will show that by getting rid of Forstall and handing wider responsibilities to Cue and Ive, among others, he has quite clearly showed us that he is indeed steering Apple. As usual, where to we won't know until after the fact. It was the same with Steve, and remember that Steve didn't always do the right thing.
I tend to agree. I know a couple of people who always were strong supporters of the iPhone and its iOS but increasingly find the grass at least as green over there. So the one major plus remains the phone's build quality. Personally, I would like to have more home screen options or a widget page on the search page like dashboard in MacOS, ability to remove (for me) useless standard apps.
While its of course evolution after revolution I agree that the increments are getting smaller from a user perception standpoint (meaning: I guess many do not really care whether maps come from apple or someone else and do not see the effort involved because it is not a new feature in itself).
Yes, I think people should be allowed to customize the home screen. I think that rigidity is old school Apple and the need to customize is greater on a phone than computer.
My guess would be that a very large percentage of users wouldn't be able to tell you who used to supply the maps for IOS and who does now. Care, much less.
I've been meaning to say something about this. Does it make more sense that he would have said "No, I'm not signing that crap! It's not true!" and that going over poorly or "No, I'm not signing that crap; we'll just fix what's wrong!" and that going over poorly?
Tim Cook's apology was lame. Moreover, it was mostly a reaction to the media. The product needs work especially outside of North America, but it was nowhere as bad as the media made it seem. Apple's biggest mistake was not releasing the product as a beta, like Siri.
Moreover, Jobs wouldn't have asked other managers to fall on their swords. Cook is the CEO. That is why he gets the big bucks. When something goes wrong, he should take the blame. He certainly shouldn't have apologized. instead, he should have just issued a statement outlining all the great new features, explaining Apple had to create a new product because of Google's unwillingness to allow Apple to innovate, and let people know Apple is aware there are some issues that need to be worked out and it really appreciates people's input.
By fumbling for a phone and answering it. If that was safe so many states wouldn't require hands free. My choices are the following:
1. Act in an unsafe manner by answering and holding my phone
Or you can just… not answer the phone while you're driving.
If you die from answering your phone because you didn't have Bluetooth, that's not Apple's fault.
Originally Posted by TBell
Moreover, Jobs wouldn't have asked other managers to fall on their swords. Cook is the CEO. That is why he gets the big bucks. When something goes wrong, he should take the blame. He certainly shouldn't have apologized. instead, he should have just issued a statement outlining all the great new features, explaining Apple had to create a new product because of Google's unwillingness to allow Apple to innovate, and let people know Apple is aware there are some issues that need to be worked out and it really appreciates people's input.
Exactly. It would have been "An Open Letter to Our Maps Users" or something. As much of the old deal as could legally be presented would have been laid out, showing what Google refused to do and explaining why Apple chose to do what it did in response.
Ten years at Apple and no second chance? They could have just taken him off the project and assigned him somewhere else. So either they wanted to make a statement or there might be more to it.
I think you have pointed out something what most other articles seemed to have missed. I think it is quite likely that Williamson was too close to Forstall for others to be comfortable working with him. Lets not forget that Forstall had him heading the most significant feature in iOS6, so he obviously placed a lot of faith in him, which would make the guys who disliked forstaall not big fans of Williamson's to say the least.
Forstall's biggest mistake was the secrecy. As a result he failed to communicate the real situation and mismanaged the expectation.
For Eddy to fix Map, he will need to address the expectation and trust problem FIRST. If he can separate the accurate POIs from the unverified ones (yet) visually, it would give the users a way to mitigate their risk and expectation.
They should also impose the 24-48 hour map fix time. This would show the early users that things are getting better relatively quickly.
Small visible changes work best here. If Eddy chooses to revamp the entire thing, he will need to start a parallel effort.
Also getting outside help is a smart or rather the right move. But they should put in as much resources and $$$ as possible to automate the hourly map update.
You really can't issue blame on Forstall without knowing more. Some news articles suggest Apple is getting the data it uses for directions from TomTom and that Apple has to submit errors to Tom Tom to get fixed. If so, the rate at which Apple can make corrections is in Tom Tom's hands. The App is nowhere near as bad as some people would lead you to believe. The person who goofed the most was the one who decided to bring this huge new under taking to the market as a final product as opposed to a beta. Forstall was responsible for Siri as well, yet that was brought to market as a beta.
I think you have pointed out something what most other articles seemed to have missed. I think it is quite likely that Williamson was too close to Forstall for others to be comfortable working with him. Lets not forget that Forstall had him heading the most significant feature in iOS6, so he obviously placed a lot of faith in him, which would make the guys who disliked forstaall not big fans of Williamson's to say the least.
That would still be a stupid reason for letting go of someone with that level of skill & knowledge. He's an asset & could have been useful elsewhere.
I've been meaning to say something about this. Does it make more sense that he would have said "No, I'm not signing that crap! It's not true!" and that going over poorly or "No, I'm not signing that crap; we'll just fix what's wrong!" and that going over poorly?
When I first DJ'd in college, the advice given to me was "If you make a mistake, just keep going. Don't apologize or explain it." And while this doesn't work in life, in terms of PR it seems to. Apologies are fuel for the fire. Wouldn't have made anyone feel better about anything. Would have provided new headlines and invited further comments. I don't know why he didn't sign it. I don't know why he should have.
You really can't issue blame on Forstall without knowing more. Some news articles suggest Apple is getting the data it uses for directions from TomTom and that Apple has to submit errors to Tom Tom to get fixed. If so, the rate at which Apple can make corrections is in Tom Tom's hands. The App is nowhere near as bad as some people would lead you to believe. The person who goofed the most was the one who decided to bring this huge new under taking to the market as a final product as opposed to a beta. Forstall was responsible for Siri as well, yet that was brought to market as a beta.
Siri is Beta the same way that Gmail is beta: it is in wide public release, and you will only know it's beta if you read the fine print. Plus, remember that the S in the 4S stands for Siri. It is correct that Siri is nowhere near ready for prime time, and it should NOT have been so hyped. I am sure Forstall paid for that too.
When I first DJ'd in college, the advice given to me was "If you make a mistake, just keep going. Don't apologize or explain it." And while this doesn't work in life, in terms of PR it seems to. Apologies are fuel for the fire. Wouldn't have made anyone feel better about anything. Would have provided new headlines and invited further comments. I don't know why he didn't sign it. I don't know why he should have.
Nah, they need to develop their existing concepts deeper. Passbook is the most interesting of the lot and in my view the most powerful. Siri needs another upgrade in accuracy based on users' collective search history since they own Safari and the iOS screen search. Then introduce integration and swiping across apps.
I think my greatest frustration with Passbook is how Apple has failed to make it take off. It is a brilliant idea. An open ticketing standard, with real time push updates which can simply piggy back off Apple servers.
In the past, Apple has been awesome at taking a new technology, focusing on a few use cases, and selling those cases to the public, allowing the technology to become widespread, and then opening it up to its full potential. We saw this with touchscreens and the iPhone. However, Apple completely dropped the ball with Passbook.
They should have ensured they had a few partners to begin with, who were completely passbook ready from day 1 (MLB, their biggest partner, supported passbook in like 3 stadiums, at the end of the baseball season). They should have gone with Starbucks, Fandango, etc. Ensured these guys added support everywhere. Allowed users to purchase Passbook based gift cards in the Apple Store, and the iTunes store. Heck, they should have given $5-10 credit for new iphone users to use with Starbucks. Instead, it has taken them months after iOS6 to start supporting Passbook in Apple Stores themselves.
Or you can just… not answer the phone while you're driving.
If you die from answering your phone because you didn't have Bluetooth, that's not Apple's fault.
Exactly. It would have been "An Open Letter to Our Maps Users" or something. As much of the old deal as could legally be presented would have been laid out, showing what Google refused to do and explaining why Apple chose to do what it did in response.
That would have been a bogus reason: "Google is charging us too much, so we are going to screw you guys [the users] over. Have a nice day!" The right thing would have been to allow the users the choice between the (beta) Apple product and the Google product for another year, until iOS 7.0, and eat the licensing fee for that period (apple can certainly afford it). In a year, with the benefit of user feedback, Maps would have been (and will be, one hopes) a much better product.
No one can replace Steve so I think it's good that someone who isn't trying to be a mini-Steve is running the company, I like the fact that Cook has aligned the company under core competencies (design, software, services) and there are DRI's for each, Of course Ive, Federighi and Cue have a lot of responsibilities so I hope Cook allows them to staff up as much as necessary, I think for the most part Apple is rock solid when it comes to hardware, but software and services need work. I think it's fair to say the impression out there (right or wrong) is that iOS has stagnated; that Siri hasn't progressed as much as it should and that other companies like Amazon, Google and Microsoft are better in the cloud. And the whole meme that Apple isn't innovating enough. Of course I think that one is BS, but its out there and is gaining traction. I think (hope) this reorg will address those issues (real or perceived). Especially since it now seems Apple has an executive team that can work together and no one is posturing for Cook's job.
I have been using the new maps app since I got my iphone 5 (my first iphone). I haven't had any issues with it. We use it for turn by turn directions all the time.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s
All I want to know is, where's iTunes 11?
Good question. I'm sure you're not the only one. Not like there's many days left in November.
I tend to agree. I know a couple of people who always were strong supporters of the iPhone and its iOS but increasingly find the grass at least as green over there. So the one major plus remains the phone's build quality. Personally, I would like to have more home screen options or a widget page on the search page like dashboard in MacOS, ability to remove (for me) useless standard apps.
While its of course evolution after revolution I agree that the increments are getting smaller from a user perception standpoint (meaning: I guess many do not really care whether maps come from apple or someone else and do not see the effort involved because it is not a new feature in itself).
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
Actually, Dick, "I" don't have to be dissatisfied to feel that Cook's job is tentative. He, in my opinion, isn't the most important guy on the team. I think that Ive is the most important guy, but Ive is also not a Steve Jobs.
Steve Jobs was not even the best idea guy, but he was definitely the guy who could plainly see which ideas would work and which ones wouldn't. He had a vision of where he wanted to take Apple. His track record speaks for itself.
Cook on the other hand hasn't shown us yet where he wants to take Apple and, in my opinion, if he has then I'm not sure about his route. A few heads have rolled and we can't necessarily say the right ones have been tossed out the door. That happens... again, we can look at Steve Jobs history with Apple as an example. Rubbing people the wrong way might not be the worst trait one can have in the Apple corporate world.
As I said... more at 6...
I am not sure about this. I think Cook may stick around for quite a while because he is the keeper of Steve's vision and I believe he is managing the ship quite well. To hold the fact that he has not clearly signalled where Apple is going against him is unfair. He has signalled that Apple is continuing in the direction that is well laid out for the time being. No change of direction required. And yet I feel that the future will show that by getting rid of Forstall and handing wider responsibilities to Cue and Ive, among others, he has quite clearly showed us that he is indeed steering Apple. As usual, where to we won't know until after the fact. It was the same with Steve, and remember that Steve didn't always do the right thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonkoTheSane
I tend to agree. I know a couple of people who always were strong supporters of the iPhone and its iOS but increasingly find the grass at least as green over there. So the one major plus remains the phone's build quality. Personally, I would like to have more home screen options or a widget page on the search page like dashboard in MacOS, ability to remove (for me) useless standard apps.
While its of course evolution after revolution I agree that the increments are getting smaller from a user perception standpoint (meaning: I guess many do not really care whether maps come from apple or someone else and do not see the effort involved because it is not a new feature in itself).
Yes, I think people should be allowed to customize the home screen. I think that rigidity is old school Apple and the need to customize is greater on a phone than computer.
My guess would be that a very large percentage of users wouldn't be able to tell you who used to supply the maps for IOS and who does now. Care, much less.
By fumbling for a phone and answering it. If that was safe so many states wouldn't require hands free. My choices are the following:
1. Act in an unsafe manner by answering and holding my phone
2. Not use a phone and an in-vehicle phone system I paid for many $$ for.
If someone at Apple would just say "We know about it and are working on it" I would be satisfied.
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I've been meaning to say something about this. Does it make more sense that he would have said "No, I'm not signing that crap! It's not true!" and that going over poorly or "No, I'm not signing that crap; we'll just fix what's wrong!" and that going over poorly?
Tim Cook's apology was lame. Moreover, it was mostly a reaction to the media. The product needs work especially outside of North America, but it was nowhere as bad as the media made it seem. Apple's biggest mistake was not releasing the product as a beta, like Siri.
Moreover, Jobs wouldn't have asked other managers to fall on their swords. Cook is the CEO. That is why he gets the big bucks. When something goes wrong, he should take the blame. He certainly shouldn't have apologized. instead, he should have just issued a statement outlining all the great new features, explaining Apple had to create a new product because of Google's unwillingness to allow Apple to innovate, and let people know Apple is aware there are some issues that need to be worked out and it really appreciates people's input.
Originally Posted by ibapples
By fumbling for a phone and answering it. If that was safe so many states wouldn't require hands free. My choices are the following:
1. Act in an unsafe manner by answering and holding my phone
Or you can just… not answer the phone while you're driving.
If you die from answering your phone because you didn't have Bluetooth, that's not Apple's fault.
Originally Posted by TBell
Moreover, Jobs wouldn't have asked other managers to fall on their swords. Cook is the CEO. That is why he gets the big bucks. When something goes wrong, he should take the blame. He certainly shouldn't have apologized. instead, he should have just issued a statement outlining all the great new features, explaining Apple had to create a new product because of Google's unwillingness to allow Apple to innovate, and let people know Apple is aware there are some issues that need to be worked out and it really appreciates people's input.
Exactly. It would have been "An Open Letter to Our Maps Users" or something. As much of the old deal as could legally be presented would have been laid out, showing what Google refused to do and explaining why Apple chose to do what it did in response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonkoTheSane
Ten years at Apple and no second chance? They could have just taken him off the project and assigned him somewhere else. So either they wanted to make a statement or there might be more to it.
I think you have pointed out something what most other articles seemed to have missed. I think it is quite likely that Williamson was too close to Forstall for others to be comfortable working with him. Lets not forget that Forstall had him heading the most significant feature in iOS6, so he obviously placed a lot of faith in him, which would make the guys who disliked forstaall not big fans of Williamson's to say the least.
Quote:
Originally Posted by patsu
Forstall's biggest mistake was the secrecy. As a result he failed to communicate the real situation and mismanaged the expectation.
For Eddy to fix Map, he will need to address the expectation and trust problem FIRST. If he can separate the accurate POIs from the unverified ones (yet) visually, it would give the users a way to mitigate their risk and expectation.
They should also impose the 24-48 hour map fix time. This would show the early users that things are getting better relatively quickly.
Small visible changes work best here. If Eddy chooses to revamp the entire thing, he will need to start a parallel effort.
Also getting outside help is a smart or rather the right move. But they should put in as much resources and $$$ as possible to automate the hourly map update.
You really can't issue blame on Forstall without knowing more. Some news articles suggest Apple is getting the data it uses for directions from TomTom and that Apple has to submit errors to Tom Tom to get fixed. If so, the rate at which Apple can make corrections is in Tom Tom's hands. The App is nowhere near as bad as some people would lead you to believe. The person who goofed the most was the one who decided to bring this huge new under taking to the market as a final product as opposed to a beta. Forstall was responsible for Siri as well, yet that was brought to market as a beta.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44
I think you have pointed out something what most other articles seemed to have missed. I think it is quite likely that Williamson was too close to Forstall for others to be comfortable working with him. Lets not forget that Forstall had him heading the most significant feature in iOS6, so he obviously placed a lot of faith in him, which would make the guys who disliked forstaall not big fans of Williamson's to say the least.
That would still be a stupid reason for letting go of someone with that level of skill & knowledge. He's an asset & could have been useful elsewhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I've been meaning to say something about this. Does it make more sense that he would have said "No, I'm not signing that crap! It's not true!" and that going over poorly or "No, I'm not signing that crap; we'll just fix what's wrong!" and that going over poorly?
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }What does it matter? A decision was taken (presumably by the CEO), and any refusal is insubordination.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astra4
Does the pic show Williamson or Cue?
Cue
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell
You really can't issue blame on Forstall without knowing more. Some news articles suggest Apple is getting the data it uses for directions from TomTom and that Apple has to submit errors to Tom Tom to get fixed. If so, the rate at which Apple can make corrections is in Tom Tom's hands. The App is nowhere near as bad as some people would lead you to believe. The person who goofed the most was the one who decided to bring this huge new under taking to the market as a final product as opposed to a beta. Forstall was responsible for Siri as well, yet that was brought to market as a beta.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }Siri is Beta the same way that Gmail is beta: it is in wide public release, and you will only know it's beta if you read the fine print. Plus, remember that the S in the 4S stands for Siri. It is correct that Siri is nowhere near ready for prime time, and it should NOT have been so hyped. I am sure Forstall paid for that too.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotScott
When I first DJ'd in college, the advice given to me was "If you make a mistake, just keep going. Don't apologize or explain it." And while this doesn't work in life, in terms of PR it seems to. Apologies are fuel for the fire. Wouldn't have made anyone feel better about anything. Would have provided new headlines and invited further comments. I don't know why he didn't sign it. I don't know why he should have.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
Because his CEO made the decision, and not doing it is insubordination and grounds for immediate termination?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsu
Nah, they need to develop their existing concepts deeper. Passbook is the most interesting of the lot and in my view the most powerful. Siri needs another upgrade in accuracy based on users' collective search history since they own Safari and the iOS screen search. Then introduce integration and swiping across apps.
I think my greatest frustration with Passbook is how Apple has failed to make it take off. It is a brilliant idea. An open ticketing standard, with real time push updates which can simply piggy back off Apple servers.
In the past, Apple has been awesome at taking a new technology, focusing on a few use cases, and selling those cases to the public, allowing the technology to become widespread, and then opening it up to its full potential. We saw this with touchscreens and the iPhone. However, Apple completely dropped the ball with Passbook.
They should have ensured they had a few partners to begin with, who were completely passbook ready from day 1 (MLB, their biggest partner, supported passbook in like 3 stadiums, at the end of the baseball season). They should have gone with Starbucks, Fandango, etc. Ensured these guys added support everywhere. Allowed users to purchase Passbook based gift cards in the Apple Store, and the iTunes store. Heck, they should have given $5-10 credit for new iphone users to use with Starbucks. Instead, it has taken them months after iOS6 to start supporting Passbook in Apple Stores themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Or you can just… not answer the phone while you're driving.
If you die from answering your phone because you didn't have Bluetooth, that's not Apple's fault.
Exactly. It would have been "An Open Letter to Our Maps Users" or something. As much of the old deal as could legally be presented would have been laid out, showing what Google refused to do and explaining why Apple chose to do what it did in response.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
That would have been a bogus reason: "Google is charging us too much, so we are going to screw you guys [the users] over. Have a nice day!" The right thing would have been to allow the users the choice between the (beta) Apple product and the Google product for another year, until iOS 7.0, and eat the licensing fee for that period (apple can certainly afford it). In a year, with the benefit of user feedback, Maps would have been (and will be, one hopes) a much better product.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s
All I want to know is, where's iTunes 11?
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Why?
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I think this whole thing is way overblown.