It is best to say "I'm sorry" even if you feel did not do anything wrong.
If Forstall did that, and wasn't so rigid and egotistical, he would still be with Apple.
He isn't Steve Jobs.
When I replied to you earlier I didn't realize that you worked at Apple in upper management.
Where you and I differ is that I don't think enough time has passed to show us one way or another if Cook can hold the ship together on his own. Running the show with Steve still in the picture and running the show entirely without Steve may be two different things.
Someone brought up the apology letter which, to me, is ironic. All the apology letter said to me was, "I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing but I'm giving it my best". I said as much when the letter was released. As good as he may be about running supply chains that letter alone has given me pause about Cook.
Actually, we differ less than that because I too think that not enough time has passed to make a judgement one way or the other. My previous point was that nothing has happened for us to make the call. There has not been a noticeable shift. Stuff is happening now but a) we don't know the truth behind the rumours, and b) what matter is the outcome in the long term.
As far as the apology goes personally I think that all we can get from that is that it was considered a screw-up by Cook (and presumably others. Personally I think it was MAJOR. Much greater than mobileMe.) and that he felt the best thing to do was to apologize. Since then the whole issue has gone fairly quiet.
This is part of the difference we have noticed in management style between Cook and Jobs over time. Jobs was confrontational whilst Cook is easier going. But there is little we can deduce from that difference. Job's confrontational approach got him into trouble (antenna gate) but in the end it was a 'blip', nothing more. The long term outcome of this management shift might be a better yardstick.
1. Yes, if you are prepared to go out (which SF may well have been, we'll never know )
2. It is not, but its what you were suggesting they do instead of what they actually did. Please correct me if I am wrong (no, saying, "you are wrong" is insufficient...)
3. Maybe, but that's for the user community to decide.
4. OK.
5. Through the magic of cut and paste in Safari (which is apparently more intelligent than we would have thunk)...
2. It is not, but its what you were suggesting they do instead of what they actually did. Please correct me if I am wrong (no, saying, "you are wrong" is insufficient...)
I mean something in the same format as the open letter about Flash and open letter about DRM. Explaining what Apple had done behind the scenes, what didn't work out, and why they decided to do what they did.
3. Maybe, but that's for the user community to decide.
We've decided, I think.
5. Through the magic of cut and paste in Safari (which is apparently more intelligent than we would have thunk)...
At least it still looked good. It was nested properly and everything formatted right.
Cleaner, but doesn't do the right thing: quote only includes the last round of discussion, not any of the previous rounds, unless I am missing something, so context is completely lost.
You really can't issue blame on Forstall without knowing more. Some news articles suggest Apple is getting the data it uses for directions from TomTom and that Apple has to submit errors to Tom Tom to get fixed. If so, the rate at which Apple can make corrections is in Tom Tom's hands. The App is nowhere near as bad as some people would lead you to believe. The person who goofed the most was the one who decided to bring this huge new under taking to the market as a final product as opposed to a beta. Forstall was responsible for Siri as well, yet that was brought to market as a beta.
Even if that's the case, it's still Forstall's fault for agreeing to TomTom's terms in fixing the data. He should have requested for more control over the update process, especially during the build up phase.
As for Siri being a beta, I think the more important question is when it will get out of beta, and what is the final expectation. The term Beta is not a cure.
I think my greatest frustration with Passbook is how Apple has failed to make it take off. It is a brilliant idea. An open ticketing standard, with real time push updates which can simply piggy back off Apple servers.
In the past, Apple has been awesome at taking a new technology, focusing on a few use cases, and selling those cases to the public, allowing the technology to become widespread, and then onpening it up to its full potential. We saw this with touchscreens and the iPhone. However, Apple completely dropped the ball with Passbook.
They should have ensured they had a few partners to begin with, who were completely passbook ready from day 1 (MLB, their biggest partner, supported passbook in like 3 stadiums, at the end of the baseball season). They should have gone with Starbucks, Fandango, etc. Ensured these guys added support everywhere. Allowed users to purchase Passbook based gift cards in the Apple Store, and the iTunes store. Heck, they should have given $5-10 credit for new iphone users to use with Starbucks. Instead, it has taken them months after iOS6 to start supporting Passbook in Apple Stores themselves.
I agree. I think they should have a big dedicated team in the mean time to support companies that have adopted Passbook and work out all the kinks ASAP. They can work with the iOS developers to move the collective goals forward. Square's integration in Starbucks is a natural fit. Other payment services like PayPal integration is useful too.
Also during this season, any multi-party co-marketing deals should make Passbook worthwhile for small businesses or shopping malls as well.
It's not merely for discounts. It works for memberships and any transaction tokens. From Apple's perspective, any sales and marketing activities can be augmented with iOS's point of sales integration. These shops can in turn submit their business info via iPhone, iPod, iPad back to Map.
I see Siri, Map and Passbook as a combined workflow solution, guiding user transactions between the real world and the Internet back and forth.
EDIT:
I don't know what Apple is busy with but their Enterprise team and Developer Support team should work with marketing to spearhead/accelerate iOS front office integration through and through.
I found out that some of my reported Map problems were fixed yesterday. They were still there last week.
Was Williamson let go after the last update to prevent rocking the boat too much ? It looks like a bunch of data in my area is more correct now. Fewer POIs are lying on the roads and car parks. Those that do are usually from Yelp.
Perhaps they are focusing on TomTom data and funneling all the improvements there. The crowd sourced Yelp POIs are more up to date even compared to Google. I went to a new restaurant that Google Maps doesn't know it exists yet. It pointed me to a junction.
Now if Apple can have 2 color pins. One for crowd sourced Yelp POIs that are fast but not so reliable, and another for certified TomTom POIs, it would work for me.
The other thing is the POI search, they should prioritize the search based on locality first, rather than syntax matching. I think a lot of people who are rushing may misspell their destination or type in incomplete address, 'specially when they are late. They tend to be close to where they want to go but couldn't find it. So SOUNDEX + locality search should have the highest priority. Right now the search is purely syntax based. If you misspell your destination, you're done for.
The third point is to be lenient. Sometimes Siri jump the gun and start the route when I make mistakes. They should give me an easy way to interrupt and change my search field quickly. Like saying the F word while on their customer support.
Also please inform me when my Map problem reports are fixed. Impose a 24-48 hour turnaround if possible.
The other map details can be added in bulk over time.
Even if there is a misspelling Apple Maps can still come up with the correct location.
BREAKING!: Eddy Cue has taken a coffee break! How does this fit into the big picture on a quarterly basis? Will it affect revenue projections? We'll talk to Shaw Wu to find out!
Even if there is a misspelling Apple Maps can still come up with the correct location.
I wonder whether you are using Apple Maps.
Not really. Since launch, I have already reported 30-40 issues via the Map app.
I am on the West Coast. This morning when I misspelled a street name, Map routed me to Midwest based on the misspelled street. It ignored the city name I typed in (which was spelled correctly). I use Apple Map everyday and only hope that it gets better quickly.
When it works well, it's solid and can even beat Google at times. But when it fails, it sometimes fails epically.
... Passbook is the most interesting of the lot and in my view the most powerful. ...
Passbook is indeed interesting, but it has one fatal flaw IMO. It can't accept coupons (or really do anything at all) unless you install the companion app for said coupons.
That means that to fill up your passbook with tickets and coupons, you have to install 20 crappy apps and find room on one of your screens for them. This is untenable. Why would I have so many coupon apps that I even need Passbook? Why would anyone?
There are many places and companies that I would accept a coupon or a free ticket from that I wouldn't ever install an app from. I'd never install a "Gap" app, but I do shop there sometimes and would certainly accept a coupon in my passbook when I visited the store.
It seems like a flawed concept to me until they change this. It presupposes that the end user is "app crazy," has hundreds of installed apps and is willing to install many more just to get a few coupons in the Passbook.
Of course, it is going to change when they put in the fingerprint reader and connect Passbook to your Apple Account, and then we will all see the true purpose of it all, but for now it's a broken, silly thing IMO.
Passbook is indeed interesting, but it has one fatal flaw IMO. It can't accept coupons (or really do anything at all) unless you install the companion app for said coupons.
That means that to fill up your passbook with tickets and coupons, you have to install 20 crappy apps and find room on one of your screens for them. This is untenable. Why would I have so many coupon apps that I even need Passbook? Why would anyone?
There are many places and companies that I would accept a coupon or a free ticket from that I wouldn't ever install an app from. I'd never install a "Gap" app, but I do shop there sometimes and would certainly accept a coupon in my passbook when I visited the store.
It seems like a flawed concept to me until they change this. It presupposes that the end user is "app crazy," has hundreds of installed apps and is willing to install many more just to get a few coupons in the Passbook.
Of course, it is going to change when they put in the fingerprint reader and connect Passbook to your Apple Account, and then we will all see the true purpose of it all, but for now it's a broken, silly thing IMO.
That's completely untrue ! You don't need an app to install Passbook coupons or tokens at all. You can collect Passbook pass by clicking on a URL in Safari or mail. No apps needed.
You should re-read Passbook specs. It's a pure JSON WebService API and protocol. That's it !
There may be some issues because Passbook makes some simple or rigid assumptions but it does not need a client side component except for Apple's builtin PassBook app.
That's completely untrue ! You don't need an app to install Passbook coupons or tokens at all. You can collect Passbook pass by clicking on a URL in Safari or mail. No apps needed.
You should re-read Passbook specs. It's a pure JSON WebService API and protocol. That's it !
There may be some issues because Passbook makes some simple or rigid assumptions but it does not need a client side component except for Apple's building PassBook app.
Well no one is doing that if it is possible. For instance, to use Starbucks cards in the app you need to install the Starbucks app, and the same is true of every service I've found so far.
I get enough SPAM from the GAP already, but despite sending me two or three emails a day, they have never sent me a passbook coupon.
Well no one is doing that if it is possible. For instance, to use Starbucks cards in the app you need to install the Starbucks app, and the same is true of every service I've found so far.
I get enough SPAM from the GAP already, but despite sending me two or three emails a day, they have never sent me a passbook coupon.
That's why people said Apple should follow through with more vigor.
If you check the Passbook apps in AppStore, not all Passbook enabled apps are listed too.
Btw, there are already email campaign management services that integrate with Passbook. There is even a service that integrate Passbook into web ads. You click on the ad banner to download Passbook deals.
Passbook is indeed interesting, but it has one fatal flaw IMO. It can't accept coupons (or really do anything at all) unless you install the companion app for said coupons.
That means that to fill up your passbook with tickets and coupons, you have to install 20 crappy apps and find room on one of your screens for them. This is untenable. Why would I have so many coupon apps that I even need Passbook? Why would anyone?
There are many places and companies that I would accept a coupon or a free ticket from that I wouldn't ever install an app from. I'd never install a "Gap" app, but I do shop there sometimes and would certainly accept a coupon in my passbook when I visited the store.
It seems like a flawed concept to me until they change this. It presupposes that the end user is "app crazy," has hundreds of installed apps and is willing to install many more just to get a few coupons in the Passbook.
Of course, it is going to change when they put in the fingerprint reader and connect Passbook to your Apple Account, and then we will all see the true purpose of it all, but for now it's a broken, silly thing IMO.
I've installed Passbook apps, yet Passbook seems to do nothing when I visit the locations one would expect the app to pop up... Unless I'm doing something wrong, Passbook is relatively worthless to me so far.
Quilt complaining it is, was obvious google for IOS was going to have haft the features than android. Apple realized this quick(probably by IOS 2, It was OK apple looked for what's missing, by this year they made it well enough so release it so much faster improvement rate. They did on IPhone 4, nearly tied with google. iPhone 5, it's improved from google, and I believe it is worked as hard as Siri, fixing to defeat bad reviews, I see errors are likely yet not anything worth google google google maps, hay its apple running apple, google running google, Nokia running Nokia maps, is there a problem.
I've installed Passbook apps, yet Passbook seems to do nothing when I visit the locations one would expect the app to pop up... Unless I'm doing something wrong, Passbook is relatively worthless to me so far.
The Passbook location service only works when your iPhone is active (lock screen or in any app)
There are some rough edges, but that's why Apple should follow up. I have used it to buy Roundtable pizzas.
Comments
Originally Posted by igriv
That's very inspiring, but I am sure the guy knew he could be fired.
When you're right, it's best to go out knowing that.
No what? What is different about what you are suggesting?
It isn't what happened, is all.
Deals are made to be extended...
And they'd extend the same crippled stuff, making Apple Maps the clear victor…
The question is whether iOS users are saddled with beta software (which was deceptively not called "beta")
Ah, now there's a question. I don't believe so, but that's me.
By the way, sorry about the cut and paste, The software here seems to be a bit, umm, weak.
But how did you manage to grab my entire post's formatting?
When I replied to you earlier I didn't realize that you worked at Apple in upper management.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
Where you and I differ is that I don't think enough time has passed to show us one way or another if Cook can hold the ship together on his own. Running the show with Steve still in the picture and running the show entirely without Steve may be two different things.
Someone brought up the apology letter which, to me, is ironic. All the apology letter said to me was, "I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing but I'm giving it my best". I said as much when the letter was released. As good as he may be about running supply chains that letter alone has given me pause about Cook.
Actually, we differ less than that because I too think that not enough time has passed to make a judgement one way or the other. My previous point was that nothing has happened for us to make the call. There has not been a noticeable shift. Stuff is happening now but a) we don't know the truth behind the rumours, and b) what matter is the outcome in the long term.
As far as the apology goes personally I think that all we can get from that is that it was considered a screw-up by Cook (and presumably others. Personally I think it was MAJOR. Much greater than mobileMe.) and that he felt the best thing to do was to apologize. Since then the whole issue has gone fairly quiet.
This is part of the difference we have noticed in management style between Cook and Jobs over time. Jobs was confrontational whilst Cook is easier going. But there is little we can deduce from that difference. Job's confrontational approach got him into trouble (antenna gate) but in the end it was a 'blip', nothing more. The long term outcome of this management shift might be a better yardstick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
When you're right, it's best to go out knowing that.
It isn't what happened, is all.
And they'd extend the same crippled stuff, making Apple Maps the clear victor…
Ah, now there's a question. I don't believe so, but that's me.
But how did you manage to grab my entire post's formatting?
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }In order.
1. Yes, if you are prepared to go out (which SF may well have been, we'll never know
2. It is not, but its what you were suggesting they do instead of what they actually did. Please correct me if I am wrong (no, saying, "you are wrong" is insufficient...)
3. Maybe, but that's for the user community to decide.
4. OK.
5. Through the magic of cut and paste in Safari (which is apparently more intelligent than we would have thunk)...
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
double. delete please
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
But how did you manage to grab my entire post's formatting?
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
5. Through the magic of cut and paste in Safari (which is apparently more intelligent than we would have thunk)...
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
Ok so now we know, but man was that FUGLY! igriv, just use the Quote button. Much cleaner.
Originally Posted by igriv
2. It is not, but its what you were suggesting they do instead of what they actually did. Please correct me if I am wrong (no, saying, "you are wrong" is insufficient...)
I mean something in the same format as the open letter about Flash and open letter about DRM. Explaining what Apple had done behind the scenes, what didn't work out, and why they decided to do what they did.
3. Maybe, but that's for the user community to decide.
We've decided, I think.
5. Through the magic of cut and paste in Safari (which is apparently more intelligent than we would have thunk)...
At least it still looked good. It was nested properly and everything formatted right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel
Ok so now we know, but man was that FUGLY! igriv, just use the Quote button. Much cleaner.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }Cleaner, but doesn't do the right thing: quote only includes the last round of discussion, not any of the previous rounds, unless I am missing something, so context is completely lost.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
Even if that's the case, it's still Forstall's fault for agreeing to TomTom's terms in fixing the data. He should have requested for more control over the update process, especially during the build up phase.
As for Siri being a beta, I think the more important question is when it will get out of beta, and what is the final expectation. The term Beta is not a cure.
I agree. I think they should have a big dedicated team in the mean time to support companies that have adopted Passbook and work out all the kinks ASAP. They can work with the iOS developers to move the collective goals forward. Square's integration in Starbucks is a natural fit. Other payment services like PayPal integration is useful too.
Also during this season, any multi-party co-marketing deals should make Passbook worthwhile for small businesses or shopping malls as well.
It's not merely for discounts. It works for memberships and any transaction tokens. From Apple's perspective, any sales and marketing activities can be augmented with iOS's point of sales integration. These shops can in turn submit their business info via iPhone, iPod, iPad back to Map.
I see Siri, Map and Passbook as a combined workflow solution, guiding user transactions between the real world and the Internet back and forth.
EDIT:
I don't know what Apple is busy with but their Enterprise team and Developer Support team should work with marketing to spearhead/accelerate iOS front office integration through and through.
Even if there is a misspelling Apple Maps can still come up with the correct location.
I wonder whether you are using Apple Maps.
BREAKING!: Eddy Cue has taken a coffee break! How does this fit into the big picture on a quarterly basis? Will it affect revenue projections? We'll talk to Shaw Wu to find out!
Not really. Since launch, I have already reported 30-40 issues via the Map app.
I am on the West Coast. This morning when I misspelled a street name, Map routed me to Midwest based on the misspelled street. It ignored the city name I typed in (which was spelled correctly). I use Apple Map everyday and only hope that it gets better quickly.
When it works well, it's solid and can even beat Google at times. But when it fails, it sometimes fails epically.
Quote:
Originally Posted by patsu
... Passbook is the most interesting of the lot and in my view the most powerful. ...
Passbook is indeed interesting, but it has one fatal flaw IMO. It can't accept coupons (or really do anything at all) unless you install the companion app for said coupons.
That means that to fill up your passbook with tickets and coupons, you have to install 20 crappy apps and find room on one of your screens for them. This is untenable. Why would I have so many coupon apps that I even need Passbook? Why would anyone?
There are many places and companies that I would accept a coupon or a free ticket from that I wouldn't ever install an app from. I'd never install a "Gap" app, but I do shop there sometimes and would certainly accept a coupon in my passbook when I visited the store.
It seems like a flawed concept to me until they change this. It presupposes that the end user is "app crazy," has hundreds of installed apps and is willing to install many more just to get a few coupons in the Passbook.
Of course, it is going to change when they put in the fingerprint reader and connect Passbook to your Apple Account, and then we will all see the true purpose of it all, but for now it's a broken, silly thing IMO.
That's completely untrue ! You don't need an app to install Passbook coupons or tokens at all. You can collect Passbook pass by clicking on a URL in Safari or mail. No apps needed.
You should re-read Passbook specs. It's a pure JSON WebService API and protocol. That's it !
There may be some issues because Passbook makes some simple or rigid assumptions but it does not need a client side component except for Apple's builtin PassBook app.
Quote:
Originally Posted by patsu
That's completely untrue ! You don't need an app to install Passbook coupons or tokens at all. You can collect Passbook pass by clicking on a URL in Safari or mail. No apps needed.
You should re-read Passbook specs. It's a pure JSON WebService API and protocol. That's it !
There may be some issues because Passbook makes some simple or rigid assumptions but it does not need a client side component except for Apple's building PassBook app.
Well no one is doing that if it is possible. For instance, to use Starbucks cards in the app you need to install the Starbucks app, and the same is true of every service I've found so far.
I get enough SPAM from the GAP already, but despite sending me two or three emails a day, they have never sent me a passbook coupon.
That's why people said Apple should follow through with more vigor.
So far they only did this:
http://thenextweb.com/apple/2012/10/03/apple-debuts-new-add-to-passbook-badge-to-increase-branding-and-boost-usage/
If you check the Passbook apps in AppStore, not all Passbook enabled apps are listed too.
Btw, there are already email campaign management services that integrate with Passbook. There is even a service that integrate Passbook into web ads. You click on the ad banner to download Passbook deals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
Passbook is indeed interesting, but it has one fatal flaw IMO. It can't accept coupons (or really do anything at all) unless you install the companion app for said coupons.
That means that to fill up your passbook with tickets and coupons, you have to install 20 crappy apps and find room on one of your screens for them. This is untenable. Why would I have so many coupon apps that I even need Passbook? Why would anyone?
There are many places and companies that I would accept a coupon or a free ticket from that I wouldn't ever install an app from. I'd never install a "Gap" app, but I do shop there sometimes and would certainly accept a coupon in my passbook when I visited the store.
It seems like a flawed concept to me until they change this. It presupposes that the end user is "app crazy," has hundreds of installed apps and is willing to install many more just to get a few coupons in the Passbook.
Of course, it is going to change when they put in the fingerprint reader and connect Passbook to your Apple Account, and then we will all see the true purpose of it all, but for now it's a broken, silly thing IMO.
I've installed Passbook apps, yet Passbook seems to do nothing when I visit the locations one would expect the app to pop up... Unless I'm doing something wrong, Passbook is relatively worthless to me so far.
The Passbook location service only works when your iPhone is active (lock screen or in any app)
There are some rough edges, but that's why Apple should follow up. I have used it to buy Roundtable pizzas.