Apple employs 4 of the top 5 highest paid execs in the US

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  • Reply 41 of 113
    jdnc123jdnc123 Posts: 233member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AAmais88 View Post


     


    Apple's market cap is currently a little over $396B.  IBM's cap is about $235B.



    sure, and what does market cap tell you about entire value of a company.  if you think anyone would pay 396b to buy apple the company, i have a bridge to sell you.

  • Reply 42 of 113
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member


    Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post

    sure, and what does market cap tell you about entire value of a company.  if you think anyone would pay 396b to buy apple the company, i have a bridge to sell you.




    Right; they're worth WAY more than just their market cap.

  • Reply 43 of 113
    jdnc123jdnc123 Posts: 233member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    Funny, then, that you'd ignore everything they've done both before and after Steve's death.


     


    I'm looking at one right now.


     


     


    That's only because they aren't.


     


    Because acquisitions don't stimulate growth.


     


    And all you have to show is why you think you deserve to know it.



    You can't prove that the executives left running this company are capable and deserving of the money they were paid any more than I can prove they aren't.  


     


    >>Because acquisitions don't stimulate growth.>>


     


    What world do you live in.  Look at IBM as exhibit A.  Google acquired Android for $50 million.  How'd that deal work out for them....no growth from that for their mobile search?  


     


    >>And all you have to show is why you think you deserve to know it.>>


     


    I am a partial OWNER of the company.  I deserve to know what Apple's management plans are for the company as much as I do for any other company I own an interest in.

  • Reply 44 of 113
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    jdnc123 wrote: »
    You forgot, with a stock with one of the lowest valuations in the world, below that of HPQ, DELL, AMD, INTC and more than half the valuation metrics of GOOG.  You are talking about the past.  The market is forward looking and it doesn't like what is sees going forward.

    You are correct here, the market doesn't like what it sees "going forward." (This cliché gives you away.)

    The market doesn't understand Apple. I would say the market is being stupid, but it may be too much to ask that the market be able to understand Apple.

    The same applies to you, since your fundamental erroneous assumption is that the market is right about Apple. I would say that you are being stupid, but it may be too much to ask that you be able to understand Apple.

    You say that TC has the personality of a rock. (This cliché also gives you away.) You said in another thread that Apple needs to do what Samsung is doing and shove out a bigger-screened phone. (Another impossible cliché . . . ) You say that Cook needs to map out Apple's future to reassure the market. (Another . . . )

    Apple and Cook's job is to concentrate on making their, our, "great products," and not pander to the stupid market. The more stupid the market become, the LESS Cook should be saying to it. The stupidity is beneath contempt, therefore beneath comment, from the stoic, solid man—and company—of character.

    Those investors with understanding have patience, and are antcipating how absolutely stupid the impatient and unseeing will be shown to be when the next round of insanely great products arrive. You may see this as a leap of faith, but those using their whole brain see that it's the typical Apple pattern of Zen serenity about their role that is at work. Cook already did his reassuring. All you have to do is listen.
  • Reply 45 of 113
    jdnc123jdnc123 Posts: 233member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post




    Right; they're worth WAY more than just their market cap.



    Honestly don't know what this means.  Company is worth what people will pay for it.  Today, Apple is worth 259 billion and IBM is worth 257 billion.  That is the value of the company's today. 

  • Reply 46 of 113
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    I'd be very surprised if Jony Ive earned any less than these guys.
    Apparently his compensation isn't required to be reported to the SEC.
  • Reply 47 of 113
    jdnc123jdnc123 Posts: 233member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post





    You are correct here, the market doesn't like what it sees "going forward." (This cliché gives you away.)



    The market doesn't understand Apple. I would say the market is being stupid, but it may be too much to ask that the market be able to understand Apple.



    The same applies to you, since your fundamental erroneous assumption is that the market is right about Apple. I would say that you are being stupid, but it may be too much to ask that you be able to understand Apple.



    You say that TC has the personality of a rock. (This cliché also gives you away.) You said in another thread that Apple needs to do what Samsung is doing and shove out a bigger-screened phone. (Another impossible cliché . . . ) You say that Cook needs to map out Apple's future to reassure the market. (Another . . . )



    Apple and Cook's job is to concentrate on making their, our, "great products," and not pander to the stupid market. The more stupid the market become, the LESS Cook should be saying to it. The stupidity is beneath contempt, therefore beneath comment, from the stoic, solid man—and company—of character.



    Those investors with understanding have patience, and are antcipating how absolutely stupid the impatient and unseeing will be shown to be when the next round of insanely great products arrive. You may see this as a leap of faith, but those using their whole brain see that it's the typical Apple pattern of Zen serenity about their role that is at work. Cook already did his reassuring. All you have to do is listen.


     


    I'm sure Apple employees don't care about their stock options and how the drop in price is eating into their own net worth.  I'm sure its not chatter at the water cooler or after work out for a beer that someone inside Apple with a good idea is better off to monetize that idea by leaving the company and going somewhere that the stock isn't in freefall and isn't facing the law of large numbers with no articulated strategy to grow earnings again.


     


    Tim Cook guided earnings below what they were last year.  Not me, not the market.  The CEO told the market 'the good times are behind us' and we are going to shrink earnings going forward.  Until he says otherwise, why shouldn't the market believe the CEO?  He is the one who confirmed the fears and gave no guidance on when the fears or reduced earnings would revert back to growth.  Only reason any CEO would say what he did and give no sign of a return to growth is he has no clue himself, which speaks volumes.


     


    So if i'm to believe this forum, no CEO at any company should ever have to articulate a plan or strategy to the owners of the company.

  • Reply 48 of 113
    thepixeldocthepixeldoc Posts: 2,257member
    IMHO... Tim Cook is the best CEO in the industry, and the ONLY logical successor to SJ.

    We won't see another SJ probably in our life time... he was that good. Vision. Passion. Disciplined. And most of all, he was able to get the absolute best out of every single person that worked with/for him, beyond even their own dreams, desires or aspirations. Their very own words and posthumous interviews state that very fact.

    SJ was a business dictator, a visionary guru, and by all accounts from the people that knew him best, a down-to-earth, pretty cool guy... until you didn't live up to the talent and excellence he saw in you... and expected. "That sucks".

    Yesterday I watched the iPad presentation clip on another thread here, for like the umpteenth time. Just amazing: the focus, the clear and concise presentation, the obsession to communicate to every person in that room why the iPad would shake the tech world, and more importantly, "people will love it as soon as they hold it"... truly "magical".

    I seriously doubt we'll see any magic, from ANY tech CEO, any Marketeer, or at any product presentation any time soon... or ever again like those from SJ.

    And I believe it is for exactly that reason that the financial markets has it's doubts about Apple presently... since fundamentally, there certainly is no other reason for it.

    NOTE: just read on the German site CHIP, that Amazon's sales have skidded 40% locally after a damning report of their business practices on our state channel ARD aired a few months ago. The same channel that raked Apple across the coals and needed intervention from a number of major newspapers to set the the record straight, due to the accusations being so blatantly false.

    Just an observation and local info for those that care, since AMZN is supposed to be "the more valuable stock" to hold for the future. :no:
  • Reply 49 of 113
    jd_in_sbjd_in_sb Posts: 1,600member


    Glad that the anti-capitalism "these salaries aren't fair" crowd haven't pounced on this thread.

  • Reply 50 of 113
    thepixeldocthepixeldoc Posts: 2,257member
    Summary Thought From Above:

    I don't think that anyone can deny the fact: that Apple was worth far more with SJ... than without him. :smokey::\
  • Reply 51 of 113
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    jdnc123 wrote: »
    I am a partial OWNER of the company.  I deserve to know what Apple's management plans are for the company as much as I do for any other company I own an interest in.

    The Gruber Question comes to mind: What is it about Apple that causes people to lose their reason?

    First, Tim Cook already told you that the coming product lineup is chock full of great stuff. Second, one reason Apple was so valuable (until people like you lost your reason) is that they keep what they're doing a secret.

    See, they want you and their competitors to be surprised, imagine that!

    If you own Toyota stock, do you expect them to tell you that they have a new magnetic suspension coming out next year?

    Do you want Apple to tell the world what they're working on?

    Edit: changed "the reason" to "one reason."
  • Reply 52 of 113
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member


    Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post

    You can't prove that the executives left running this company are capable and deserving of the money they were paid any more than I can prove they aren't.  


     


    So why do you think you're right? image





    Google acquired Android for $50 million.  How'd that deal work out for them...



     


    They also acquired Motorola for $12 billion. How'd that deal work out for them? image


     


    Intelligent management of resources drives growth. You can have zero acquisitions and grow and nothing but acquisitions and go bankrupt.


     



    I am a partial OWNER of the company.



     



     


    And this means what? Do you know how to run it? Do you know what they've been doing internally for the past ten years? Do you know what they've been planning for the next five years? 


     


    So why do you think articulating the current step in that process 1. is good for the company, since everyone gets to hear it or 2. would "be acceptable" to you, having not heard the past or the future? 





    Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post

    The CEO told the market 'the good times are behind us'…


     


    Nowhere did he say that, ever, at any time.






    Until he says otherwise, why shouldn't the market believe the CEO?



     


    First you say the "market" doesn't trust him and then you say the "market" should believe him 100%.


     


    Which is it.






    Only reason any CEO would say what he did and give no sign of a return to growth is he has no clue himself, which speaks volumes.



     


    It speaks volumes about you that you think it's the "ONLY REASON".





    So if i'm to believe this forum, no CEO at any company should ever have to articulate a plan or strategy to the owners of the company.



     


    Again, you own it; that means nothing. You don't work for it, you don't have input in regard to product, and you don't drive strategy in the industry. Why should Apple tell all their competitors what they have on their plate?

  • Reply 53 of 113
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    jdnc123 wrote: »
    I'm sure Apple employees don't care about their stock options and how the drop in price is eating into their own net worth.  I'm sure its not chatter at the water cooler or after work out for a beer that someone inside Apple with a good idea is better off to monetize that idea by leaving the company and going somewhere that the stock isn't in freefall and isn't facing the law of large numbers with no articulated strategy to grow earnings again.

    Tim Cook guided earnings below what they were last year.  Not me, not the market.  The CEO told the market 'the good times are behind us' and we are going to shrink earnings going forward.  Until he says otherwise, why shouldn't the market believe the CEO?  He is the one who confirmed the fears and gave no guidance on when the fears or reduced earnings would revert back to growth.  Only reason any CEO would say what he did and give no sign of a return to growth is he has no clue himself, which speaks volumes.

    So if i'm to believe this forum, no CEO at any company should ever have to articulate a plan or strategy to the owners of the company.

    Employees know to be patient, and know that they're working on great things. I'm imagining the best-case here, because I don't really know, and because I am not filled with fear over my investment. (I don't have any in AAPL)

    Your second paragraph tells the fearful story. The rational interpretation of Cook's or Oppenheimer's guidance is that they're working on some expensive and difficult development this year, which they would be crazy to articulate in any specific way to assuage the nervous flock of investors. And he would be crazy to predict the future beyond one quarter. That "speaks volumes" about their discipline and adherence to conventional conservative practice.
  • Reply 54 of 113
    igrivigriv Posts: 1,177member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NormM View Post



    How about hedge fund managers? David Tepper, founder of hedge fund firm Appaloosa Management, made $2.2 billion last year.


     


    That's a red herring. A lot of that was return on his own money.

  • Reply 55 of 113
    jdnc123jdnc123 Posts: 233member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    So why do you think you're right? image


     


    They also acquired Motorola for $12 billion. How'd that deal work out for them? image


     


    Intelligent management of resources drives growth. You can have zero acquisitions and grow and nothing but acquisitions and go bankrupt.


     


     



     


    And this means what? Do you know how to run it? Do you know what they've been doing internally for the past ten years? Do you know what they've been planning for the next five years? 


     


    So why do you think articulating the current step in that process 1. is good for the company, since everyone gets to hear it or 2. would "be acceptable" to you, having not heard the past or the future? 


     


    Nowhere did he say that, ever, at any time.


     


    First you say the "market" doesn't trust him and then you say the "market" should believe him 100%.


     


    Which is it.


     


    It speaks volumes about you that you think it's the "ONLY REASON".


     


    Again, you own it; that means nothing. You don't work for it, you don't have input in regard to product, and you don't drive strategy in the industry. Why should Apple tell all their competitors what they have on their plate?



     


    >>Nowhere did he say that, ever, at any time.>>


     


    You like using half my sentences.  The first half of what you are referencing said he told the market earnings would significantly decline this qtr versus last year.  He indeed said that.


     


    I could name numerous examples of me telling company executives they had best take another tact otherwise their companies were in trouble.  I'm a debt/bankruptcy guy so usually it was less strategic and more financial comments like 'if you don't raise equity and delever, you guys are going to file soon.'  I've been right a number of times with those calls.  This concept that you have to be an insider otherwise your input is invalid is so absurdly naive its not even worth commenting on.  It is a sign of arrogance and I think arrogance is what will be the downfall of Apple.  Here is a prediction for you.  Tim Cook is fired and gone within one year.  

  • Reply 56 of 113
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    zoffdino wrote: »
    People, most of those compensation are spread over a 10 years period, but for tax purposes, they have to declare the income as this year's. Did anybody honestly believe that Cook gets a 90% salary reduction for this year?

    Anyway, what do they have to show for the humongous compensation they got? Stock tanked nearly 40% and none of them blinked an eye.

    How's the company preforming?
  • Reply 57 of 113
    igrivigriv Posts: 1,177member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post





    One of the finest CEOs of the past two decades attended some calligraphy classes and dropped acid at Reed College before dropping out. I suggest starting there.


     


    More to the point, if you look up Oppenheimer, you will see that his pedigree is distinctly sub-Ivy League.

  • Reply 58 of 113
    igrivigriv Posts: 1,177member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post





    The Gruber Question comes to mind: What is it about Apple that causes people to lose their reason?



    First, Tim Cook already told you that the coming product lineup is chock full of great stuff. Second, one reason Apple was so valuable (until people like you lost your reason) is that they keep what they're doing a secret.



    See, they want you and their competitors to be surprised, imagine that!



    If you own Toyota stock, do you expect them to tell you that they have a new magnetic suspension coming out next year?



    Do you want Apple to tell the world what they're working on?



    Edit: changed "the reason" to "one reason."


     


    Actually, Toyota is a hell of a lot more transparent than Apple about what they are working on. And "our coming lineup is chock full of great stuff" is meaningless. What do you expect him to say? "We have a couple of kinda crappy products in the pipeline"?

  • Reply 59 of 113
    igrivigriv Posts: 1,177member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post


    Honestly don't know what this means.  Company is worth what people will pay for it.  Today, Apple is worth 259 billion and IBM is worth 257 billion.  That is the value of the company's today. 



     


    I will explain what it means using the "Greater Fool" theory TallestSkill believes that the entire investing public are greater fools than he. He is, of course, claiming this from the comfort of his own Carribean island.

  • Reply 60 of 113
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member


    Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post

    he told the market earnings would significantly decline this qtr versus last year.  He indeed said that.




    So then say that instead of the FUD-filled nonsense you did say.





    This concept that you have to be an insider otherwise your input is invalid is so absurdly naive its not even worth commenting on.



     


    There's a corner of a piece of paper sticking out from underneath a solid oak door.


     


    There's a zero written on it.


     


    From this you deduce the entirety of the contents of the piece of paper and claim that Apple is doomed.






    Here is a prediction for you.  Tim Cook is fired and gone within one year.  



     


    To be clear, is that one year from when he took over as CEO like people were saying back then, or one year from right this very second?



    Because your predictions will always come true if the goalposts are strapped to a golf cart. 





    Originally Posted by igriv View Post

    And "our coming lineup is chock full of great stuff" is meaningless.


     


    Sounds like they're making new products that are going to be great.


     


    I wonder how explicitly defining the continuation of their product lines is "meaningless".





    Originally Posted by igriv View Post

    …the entire investing public are greater fools than he.


     


    Nah, just that they can't possibly know something they're not told.

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