Apple employs 4 of the top 5 highest paid execs in the US

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  • Reply 61 of 113
    igrivigriv Posts: 1,177member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post





    You are correct here, the market doesn't like what it sees "going forward." (This cliché gives you away.)



    The market doesn't understand Apple. I would say the market is being stupid, but it may be too much to ask that the market be able to understand Apple.



    The same applies to you, since your fundamental erroneous assumption is that the market is right about Apple. I would say that you are being stupid, but it may be too much to ask that you be able to understand Apple.



    You say that TC has the personality of a rock. (This cliché also gives you away.) You said in another thread that Apple needs to do what Samsung is doing and shove out a bigger-screened phone. (Another impossible cliché . . . ) You say that Cook needs to map out Apple's future to reassure the market. (Another . . . )



    Apple and Cook's job is to concentrate on making their, our, "great products," and not pander to the stupid market. The more stupid the market become, the LESS Cook should be saying to it. The stupidity is beneath contempt, therefore beneath comment, from the stoic, solid man—and company—of character.



    Those investors with understanding have patience, and are antcipating how absolutely stupid the impatient and unseeing will be shown to be when the next round of insanely great products arrive. You may see this as a leap of faith, but those using their whole brain see that it's the typical Apple pattern of Zen serenity about their role that is at work. Cook already did his reassuring. All you have to do is listen.


     


    "the market does not understand Apple"? What makes you think that they are smarter than the many people who make up the market (many of them professional investors)?

  • Reply 62 of 113
    igrivigriv Posts: 1,177member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post


    You can't prove that the executives left running this company are capable and deserving of the money they were paid any more than I can prove they aren't.  


     


    >>Because acquisitions don't stimulate growth.>>


     


    What world do you live in.  Look at IBM as exhibit A.  Google acquired Android for $50 million.  How'd that deal work out for them....no growth from that for their mobile search?  


     


    >>And all you have to show is why you think you deserve to know it.>>


     


    I am a partial OWNER of the company.  I deserve to know what Apple's management plans are for the company as much as I do for any other company I own an interest in.



     


    In particular, any CFO in a non-financial company is not worth $90MM a year (my personal opinion is that Oppenheimer is worth a negative amount, but even aside from that find me another CFO who makes 25% of what Oppenheimer makes.

  • Reply 63 of 113
    jdnc123jdnc123 Posts: 233member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post




    So then say that instead of the FUD-filled nonsense you did say.


     


    There's a corner of a piece of paper sticking out from underneath a solid oak door.


     


    There's a zero written on it.


     


    From this you deduce the entirety of the contents of the piece of paper and claim that Apple is doomed.


     


    To be clear, is that one year from when he took over as CEO like people were saying back then, or one year from right this very second?



    Because your predictions will always come true if the goalposts are strapped to a golf cart. 


     


    Sounds like they're making new products that are going to be great.


     


    I wonder how explicitly defining the continuation of their product lines is "meaningless".


     


    Nah, just that they can't possibly know something they're not told.



     


    New closing 52-week low right around the corner, new low value for Apple since Tim Cook took over.  Value continues to be destroyed by Cook and team, negative value creation in the two years they have run it.  Samsung meanwhile right near all-time high.  Those the facts jack.

  • Reply 64 of 113
    jdnc123jdnc123 Posts: 233member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post


     


    New closing 52-week low right around the corner, new low value for Apple since Tim Cook took over.  Value continues to be destroyed by Cook and team, negative value creation in the two years they have run it.  Samsung meanwhile right near all-time high.  Those the facts jack.



    $279 billion of value chopped off enterprise value since the stock peak.   52% drop and counting.  Great work Cook and team.  Spectacular work.  Percentages may be similar but maximum notional value lost under Jobs no more than 50-75 billion without running numbers, so Tim has lost 4-5x more than Steve ever did.  Maybe it was a function of expectations set too high, but Tim is the one who could have articulated expectations in line with reality and chose not to.  He did say last quarter the smartphone market remained a large growth market, but of course he didn't say only Google and Samsung would monetize that growth.


     


    Now take it for what its worth as only one data point, but I was at VZ this weekend and asked rep what most popular phone was..... Samsung S3 was answer, which was surprising given S4 right around the corner.  I travel a lot and still see mostly iPhone's and iPad's, but starting to see a lot more large screen alternatives.

  • Reply 65 of 113
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    I think AI needs to create a special thread or forum where these arm chair generals can go bitch about the stock or Cook's management of the company.
  • Reply 66 of 113
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member


    Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post

    New closing 52-week low right around the corner, new low value for Apple since Tim Cook took over.  Value continues to be destroyed by Cook and team, negative value creation in the two years they have run it.  Samsung meanwhile right near all-time high.  Those the facts jack.


     


    "I don't actually know anything about which I'm speaking. Except it's the truth."






    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

    I think AI needs to create a special thread or forum where these arm chair generals can go bitch about the stock or Cook's management of the company.


     



    We have one. For those to whom this applies, please post your complaints in that forum.

  • Reply 67 of 113
    jdnc123jdnc123 Posts: 233member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post



    I think AI needs to create a special thread or forum where these arm chair generals can go bitch about the stock or Cook's management of the company.


    Armchair?  People have been pounding the table on Apple rolling out a lower-cost phone, a larger screen phone, another product, etc. since he took over.  Tim Cook has done none of the above.  Reducing the size of your markets intentionally and allowing your competition to get a foothold while you sit around unable to execute is never a good strategy in any industry (granted maybe Tim is waiting to pull a rabbit out of a hat).  I certainly thought management would be able to execute on at least one growth initiative to offset the eventual and expected decline in iPhone sales, but they simply haven't been able to.


     


    Seriously, all he has to do is articulate that he cares about growth and expects to resume a growth in earnings and I wouldn't criticize him again.  He can't do that right now because they got caught off guard with the slowdown.  The reality is earnings will be lower year over year despite being with far more carriers.  Things are slowing dramatically and Apple shows no signs of playing offense to attack market share.  The 'if we build it, they will come' strategy isn't as effective as it once was. 

  • Reply 68 of 113
    jdnc123jdnc123 Posts: 233member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    "I don't actually know anything about which I'm speaking. Except it's the truth."


     


    We have one. For those to whom this applies, please post your complaints in that forum.



    >>"I don't actually know anything about which I'm speaking. Except it's the truth.">>


     


    I don't understand.  Everything I said was the truth.  The stock did close at a new multi-year low.  The value of the company is the lowest its been since Jobs died.  Good work if you can get it, getting paid nearly $100 million to destroy $279 billion of value.


     


    So what makes your view of management more valid than mine.  Name me something good they have done that isn't just a tail/annuity of something Jobs had led.  One product or service that is really industry leading and has driven the platform forward.  What are these guys getting paid all the money for that they deserve it?

  • Reply 69 of 113
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    igriv wrote: »
    "the market does not understand Apple"? What makes you think that they are smarter than the many people who make up the market (many of them professional investors)?

    Do I really have to spell out for you? We have a professional investor right here at hand, who thinks Apple should crank out a large-screen phone like six moths ago, just as if they were Samsung, so jdnc123 said in another thread recently.*

    As if Apple had their own chip and display fabs, their own army of nimble Korean engineers, their own top-down dictatorial management structure, all of which allow Samsung to churn out products like so much commodity. The companies couldn't be more different.

    Apple takes years to perfect a product, Samsung cranks them out. What could be simpler, and people like Horace Dediu get this, but the investment community? How many times have you seen it asked, where is Apple's big-screen phone?

    Enough said about this. jdnc123 is a textbook example of investors who don't get it, and you are just being your typical distracting gadfly self.

    *Edit: and here as well. I'm beginning to think he's more in the pro troll category, rather than pro investor. I doubt anyone can be this sincerely dense. If he's all that invested in AAPL, he's being suicidal with that investment. Cook fired in a year! Hah!
  • Reply 70 of 113
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member


    Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post

    I don't understand.  Everything I said was the truth.




    So be a dear and list off this quarter's earnings, since you apparently know them early.





    Name me something good they have done that isn't just a tail/annuity of something Jobs had led.



     


    No, no. Prove to me that nothing they've done since his death has been anything but 100% Jobs-approved, -created, or even -started.






    What are these guys getting paid all the money for that they deserve it?



     


    All these things you claim to have done and all these opinions you have and you can't see it? Don't know if that's embarrassing or just sad.

  • Reply 71 of 113
    mvigodmvigod Posts: 172member
    And now we know the intended use for all that cash they are tightly holding onto instead of giving to shareholders. Keep it all in the family...
  • Reply 72 of 113
    gtrgtr Posts: 3,231member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post


    >>"I don't actually know anything about which I'm speaking...">>



     


    The utter lack of understanding and ignorance that you have have displayed in your posts in this thread has been both astonishing and most amusing.


     


    I think you chose an appropriate career choice when you became an investor.

  • Reply 73 of 113
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post


    'Trust us, don't worry about it' doesn't work when your company loses half its value...



     


    So when did Apple hit $840?


     


    With math like that I wouldn't trust you to invest a nickel in a slot machine.

  • Reply 74 of 113
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member


    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

    With math like that I wouldn't trust you to invest a nickel in a slot machine.


     


    Given that math, he'd invest an ACTUAL nickel.

  • Reply 75 of 113
    jdnc123jdnc123 Posts: 233member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


     


    So when did Apple hit $840?


     


    With math like that I wouldn't trust you to invest a nickel in a slot machine.



    Funny, yet ineffective attempt at trying to deflect the reality.


     


    Apple was worth $538 billion when the stock was at $702, the closing high.  $659 billion market cap plus 0 debt less 121 billion cash = 538 billion


    Today Apple is worth $257 billion (394 billion mkt cap plus net debt of -137 billion).


     


    Lost value of Apple's business = 281 billion


    Drop in value of the underlying company = 52%


     


    I keep using "value" of Apple, not the market capitalization.  Given their cash position, the value of Apple has actually dropped more than the market cap.  Looking just at market cap. doesn't tell the whole story of how much value the current management team is destroying.


     


    Trust me, for those of you who don't understand the concept of how a company is valued, you should just go put your money in slot machines.


     


    281 billion lost.  The most in the history of the world by any CEO during a bull market.

  • Reply 76 of 113
    gtrgtr Posts: 3,231member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post


    Funny, yet ineffective attempt at trying to deflect the reality.



     


    Tell us more about investing and reality, oh Wise One!


     


    image

  • Reply 77 of 113
    jdnc123jdnc123 Posts: 233member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GTR View Post


     


    Tell us more about investing and reality, oh Wise One!


     


    image



    I don't get your joke.  All I did was state facts that others didn't seem to grasp.  Apple has dropped > 50% in value since its peak while the markets and its closest peers increased in value.  That is reality.  If I was a wise investor, I wouldn't own so much Apple stock!

  • Reply 78 of 113
    gtrgtr Posts: 3,231member
    jdnc123 wrote: »
    I don't get your joke.

    Exactly.

    You just don't get it.

    ;)
  • Reply 79 of 113
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member


    Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post

    All I did was state facts that others didn't seem to grasp.




    Thing is, you also pitched lies and guesses as being those same "facts", so you'll probably have to forgive people for not believing you.

  • Reply 80 of 113

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post


    I keep using "value" of Apple, not the market capitalization.  etc etc



    Oh, please QUIT IT with this nonsense. You're beating it to death-- no, after it's way past dead -- and if anything, detracting from the larger point you're trying to make.

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