Apple is now valued basically the same as what it was in late 2010. 2.5 yrs. No value creation as an operator in a secular growth market. Really amazing.
This isn't about earnings this quarter or next. Its about perception and the perception is Apple is leaderless with no direction and no answers to Samsungs attacks. Tim has neither said nor shown he has an answer, so the market expects the worst.
And how does that influence Apple (the company)? What does it change?
How does it change the fact that every single device made by Apple is the best and best seller on their respective categories and they are making 15 billion each quarter while others are losing money or making 0 profit?
How does it change the fact that besides all that, the number of sales is always growing yoy?
How does it change the fact that Apple is already investing so much on their future (data centers, more investments on companies, supply chain contracts, etc?)
How does it change the fact that Apple earns now 3 or 4 times more money per quarter than they did jan 2010?
And how does that influence Apple (the company)? What does it change?
How does it change the fact that every single device made by Apple is the best and best seller on their respective categories and they are making 15 billion each quarter while others are losing money or making 0 profit?
How does it change the fact that besides all that, the number of sales is always growing yoy?
How does it change the fact that Apple is already investing so much on their future (data centers, more investments on companies, supply chain contracts, etc?)
How does it change the fact that Apple earns now 3 or 4 times more money per quarter than they did jan 2010?
>>And how does that influence Apple (the company)? What does it change?>>
Bright engineers leave on their own or get recruited away to a place where their stock comp. is an appreciating asset. You can't honestly believe employees don't care that their net worth is dropping like a rock?
>>How does it change the fact that every single device made by Apple is the best and best seller on their respective categories and they are making 15 billion each quarter while others are losing money or making 0 profit?>>
Samsung will make about as much as Apple this year. I'll debate if you want to stay realistic.
>>How does it change the fact that besides all that, the number of sales is always growing yoy?>>
Sales growing, net income shrinking due to margin compression. The goal as a company is to make earnings.
>>How does it change the fact that Apple is already investing so much on their future (data centers, more investments on companies, supply chain contracts, etc?)>>
And they could have invested even more, which I think most wish they had to buy or build more growth and less reliance on a single product.
>>How does it change the fact that Apple earns now 3 or 4 times more money per quarter than they did jan 2010?>>
Well, I referenced late 2010 and they won't even make 50% more this quarter than they did in the 4th qtr of 2010 (granted not fair comparison as that is a holiday qtr)
So tell me. Why are so many Apple investors rushing for the door. Why has the company lost 4-6x in value what it ever did under Jobs? Why does every single reported supply chain data point show massively slowing sales?
[B]Gazoobee[/B] is right, [B]jdnc123[/B] should just be totally ignored, since he hasn't got it by now. He either is incapable of having a good thought, or he's not for real, i.e., a shill. I think it's the latter.
The CEO guided earnings down versus the same quarter last year. Sales alone mean little, the market cares about earnings. He told us earnings were going to shrink.
>>And how does that influence Apple (the company)? What does it change?>>
Bright engineers leave on their own or get recruited away to a place where their stock comp. is an appreciating asset. You can't honestly believe employees don't care that their net worth is dropping like a rock?
>>How does it change the fact that every single device made by Apple is the best and best seller on their respective categories and they are making 15 billion each quarter while others are losing money or making 0 profit?>>
Samsung will make about as much as Apple this year. I'll debate if you want to stay realistic.
>>How does it change the fact that besides all that, the number of sales is always growing yoy?>>
Sales growing, net income shrinking due to margin compression. The goal as a company is to make earnings.
>>How does it change the fact that Apple is already investing so much on their future (data centers, more investments on companies, supply chain contracts, etc?)>>
And they could have invested even more, which I think most wish they had to buy or build more growth and less reliance on a single product.
>>How does it change the fact that Apple earns now 3 or 4 times more money per quarter than they did jan 2010?>>
Well, I referenced late 2010 and they won't even make 50% more this quarter than they did in the 4th qtr of 2010 (granted not fair comparison as that is a holiday qtr)
So tell me. Why are so many Apple investors rushing for the door. Why has the company lost 4-6x in value what it ever did under Jobs? Why does every single reported supply chain data point show massively slowing sales?
1- Apple had 4 out of the first 5 best paid executives/engineers. So you are lying or have no idea.
2- you have no idea, but even if it does, so What? Besides that, ALL other OEMs are going downhill very fast.
3- net income grew yoy, especially if you have a functional brain cell and remembered about the less weak (8% yoy growth to the number 1 company in net income. that's huge!!). Even if it goes down, isn't 11 billion and still being number 1 or 2 enough?relience on a single product? they make more on macs than all oems combined on pc. they make more on ecosystem than microsoft. they make more on tablets than all other poems x10, they make more on phones 4x samsung, while all others lose. what are you talking about?
4- not fair comparison. Why are they rushing? they are ignorant stupid and foolish algorithms that understand 0 about Apple's business strategy that for them is a failure but was good enough to become the most valuable company of the world.
Again, you talked about sales shrinking and other BS and are slowly changing that...
The CEO guided earnings down versus the same quarter last year. Sales alone mean little, the market cares about earnings. He told us earnings were going to shrink.
"shrink"? what a moron...
besides that, even if it becomes true, making more net profit than all others isn't enough? go away, troll.
Hedgies are again using general "negative sentiment" to lure some more stock out if private investors
I agree that Apple's product pipeline is not as its best today. I also believe Cook and especially Oppenheimer should be sacked fir reasons i will not disclose, but this stock value game is just a game of degenerated capitalism and nothing more...
How about instead of attacking me, you tell me why Apple is a good investment these days. What are they going to do to grow earnings? I don't think they can due to strategic missteps.
Because analysts have never gotten Apple right? Ever.
If you put in the 2012 actuals, Apple reached the "analysts" 2014 goals 2 years early. What is funny is these so called analysts, will say Apple keeps missing quarters but they keep smashing the years out of the park. So, how can you miss earning estimates quarter after quarter but blow the yearly estimates out of the park year after year after year?
1- Apple had 4 out of the first 5 best paid executives/engineers. So you are lying or have no idea.
2- you have no idea, but even if it does, so What? Besides that, ALL other OEMs are going downhill very fast.
3- net income grew yoy, especially if you have a functional brain cell and remembered about the less weak (8% yoy growth to the number 1 company in net income. that's huge!!). Even if it goes down, isn't 11 billion and still being number 1 or 2 enough?relience on a single product? they make more on macs than all oems combined on pc. they make more on ecosystem than microsoft. they make more on tablets than all other poems x10, they make more on phones 4x samsung, while all others lose. what are you talking about?
4- not fair comparison. Why are they rushing? they are ignorant stupid and foolish algorithms that understand 0 about Apple's business strategy that for them is a failure but was good enough to become the most valuable company of the world.
Again, you talked about sales shrinking and other BS and are slowly changing that...
You are a moron. Proved.
Listen, I'm not going to respond to the name calling from you or others.
1. They WERE the highest paid. The value of those packages has dropped along with the stock.
2. I should have said it is expected that Samsung will make as much. Further, Samsung is expected to sell 2x as many phones as Apple this year versus selling the same number not long ago. Sure, they sell lower margin/cost/profit phones but they are indeed making it up on volume.
3. You don't understand the importance of the iPhone to this company if you are talking about macs moving the needle.
4. WAS good enough. When they had the market to themselves. When the competition was light years behind. That is no longer the case, but you and Apple's management seem to think that is the case and that they need not change. The market is saying Tim Cook is very, very wrong in that regard. He has a chance to prove them wrong next week, I'll be here when the stock drops to $350 after he guides the next qtr down - yet again and we can all discuss how the analysts did have it right and they did see this coming even before management team saw it or reacted.
If you put in the 2012 actuals, Apple reached the "analysts" 2014 goals 2 years early. What is funny is these so called analysts, will say Apple keeps missing quarters but they keep smashing the years out of the park. So, how can you miss earning estimates quarter after quarter but blow the yearly estimates out of the park year after year after year?
>>Because analysts have never gotten Apple right? Ever.>>
Oh come on Gundlach called this move when the stock was at $500-700. Did he get it right?
New 52 week low for Apple. Apple no longer the most valuable technology company in the world (IBM is based on enterprise value and Google will soon be more valuable also); $300 billion in value lost and counting. Samsung near its all time high and growing earnings while Apple shrinks.
Apple better do something to take on Samsung. Jobs wanted to enter thermonuclear war with them.....Cook is sitting around doing nothing to go on the offensive and take the narrative back. Current perception is Apple is playing catch up to Samsung which is an amazing thing to think given Cook has tens of billions in cash and all the resources in the world and can't come out with anything that creates any excitement or stems the bleeding for the worst drop in value in world history while the broader markets aren't also imploding.
You're beginning to sound like a broken record. For your information, SJ never cared about stock price.
You're beginning to sound like a broken record. For your information, SJ never cared about stock price.
SJ is dead. How about we all move on and talk about Tim Cook who is running the company now. Should Tim Cook not care about the stock price and do everything SJ did. That must be a fun existence in life to not be your own man (by the way Steve told him to do exactly that and not care what he would have done).
CRUS announced they took a writeoff of inventory because of 'reduced demand for a high volume product.' Given everyone knows that is Apple, not a good thing when they have to write off $20mm+ of inventory that they can't sell because the end product isn't selling.
The market doesn't need Tim Cook to tell us sales are weak, others already have if you are listening.
I've long felt that there might be astroturfing of forums by certain Android vendors with attacks on Apple. I don't have any evidence for this, just a gut feel.
This is based on the vehemence and passion with which the posters on these forums, eg: Wired and MSM tech news sites attack Apple. While I do regularly meet crazy Apple lovers in the street, I don't think I meet many or any users of said phones who are that passionate about what is basically, generally, just a phone or texting device to them.
Where are these passionate lovers of Android, outside the forums? I suspect in a windowless room somewhere, funded by an astroturfing/marketing budget.
What is more, I don't see HTC or Nexus users featuring much among these posters, it often seems to be the users of the products of a specific Korean company.
there are def people on here doing PR for samsung and possible even google.
Apple is in trouble really i thought they were highly profitable increasing market share without lowering profits...every Qtr there making 10 billion plus and they have more monies in the bank then company ever....
the only crisis is engineered by samsung paid bloggers....you would think apple was losing billions and lay off staff..
In regards to Tim Cook being the worst ever Ceo...great that means he's doing well.
In regards to Apple taking care of Samsung ...doing nothing...really i thought they were sueing them worldwide for thieving...and there removing all there supply chain which long term is insanely bad news for samsung..lets see samsung producing there own products without stealing..and let watch apple's new supply chain start bidding for samsung present clients..
Apple stock price has been going up and down...but thats for the gamblers...lets look at the company and its performance and its future products and not what some wall st guy is doing to make a profit...clearly the way its stock has been compared its profits it makes no sense...profits have been great and steady..
I've long felt that there might be astroturfing of forums by certain Android vendors with attacks on Apple. I don't have any evidence for this, just a gut feel.
The only people without that gut feeling are the ones doing it.
SJ is dead. How about we all move on and talk about Tim Cook who is running the company now. Should Tim Cook not care about the stock price and do everything SJ did. That must be a fun existence in life to not be your own man (by the way Steve told him to do exactly that and not care what he would have done).
He is dead but I hope his legacy is still alive at Apple. And that, I hope, is to never cares about stock price. So there you go. lol.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
Apple is now valued basically the same as what it was in late 2010. 2.5 yrs. No value creation as an operator in a secular growth market. Really amazing.
This isn't about earnings this quarter or next. Its about perception and the perception is Apple is leaderless with no direction and no answers to Samsungs attacks. Tim has neither said nor shown he has an answer, so the market expects the worst.
And how does that influence Apple (the company)? What does it change?
How does it change the fact that every single device made by Apple is the best and best seller on their respective categories and they are making 15 billion each quarter while others are losing money or making 0 profit?
How does it change the fact that besides all that, the number of sales is always growing yoy?
How does it change the fact that Apple is already investing so much on their future (data centers, more investments on companies, supply chain contracts, etc?)
How does it change the fact that Apple earns now 3 or 4 times more money per quarter than they did jan 2010?
Quiet in the peanut gallery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
Back it up? The CEO told us all last quarter. Do you have inside information that something other than what he said is happening?
What? Where? I saw iphone sales growing, ipad sales growing, mac laptop sales growing (the imac wasn't there, etc), the ipod sales holding their own, ecosystem sales skyrocking.
Best quarter ever despite one less week.
What...the....hell...are...you...talking....about?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
And how does that influence Apple (the company)? What does it change?
How does it change the fact that every single device made by Apple is the best and best seller on their respective categories and they are making 15 billion each quarter while others are losing money or making 0 profit?
How does it change the fact that besides all that, the number of sales is always growing yoy?
How does it change the fact that Apple is already investing so much on their future (data centers, more investments on companies, supply chain contracts, etc?)
How does it change the fact that Apple earns now 3 or 4 times more money per quarter than they did jan 2010?
>>And how does that influence Apple (the company)? What does it change?>>
Bright engineers leave on their own or get recruited away to a place where their stock comp. is an appreciating asset. You can't honestly believe employees don't care that their net worth is dropping like a rock?
>>How does it change the fact that every single device made by Apple is the best and best seller on their respective categories and they are making 15 billion each quarter while others are losing money or making 0 profit?>>
Samsung will make about as much as Apple this year. I'll debate if you want to stay realistic.
>>How does it change the fact that besides all that, the number of sales is always growing yoy?>>
Sales growing, net income shrinking due to margin compression. The goal as a company is to make earnings.
>>How does it change the fact that Apple is already investing so much on their future (data centers, more investments on companies, supply chain contracts, etc?)>>
And they could have invested even more, which I think most wish they had to buy or build more growth and less reliance on a single product.
>>How does it change the fact that Apple earns now 3 or 4 times more money per quarter than they did jan 2010?>>
Well, I referenced late 2010 and they won't even make 50% more this quarter than they did in the 4th qtr of 2010 (granted not fair comparison as that is a holiday qtr)
So tell me. Why are so many Apple investors rushing for the door. Why has the company lost 4-6x in value what it ever did under Jobs? Why does every single reported supply chain data point show massively slowing sales?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
What? Where? I saw iphone sales growing, ipad sales growing, mac laptop sales growing (the imac wasn't there, etc), the ipod sales holding their own, ecosystem sales skyrocking.
Best quarter ever despite one less week.
What...the....hell...are...you...talking....about?
The CEO guided earnings down versus the same quarter last year. Sales alone mean little, the market cares about earnings. He told us earnings were going to shrink.
@ Nelson X:
Quiet in the peanut gallery.
He, he, I might buy bellow 400$!Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
>>And how does that influence Apple (the company)? What does it change?>>
Bright engineers leave on their own or get recruited away to a place where their stock comp. is an appreciating asset. You can't honestly believe employees don't care that their net worth is dropping like a rock?
>>How does it change the fact that every single device made by Apple is the best and best seller on their respective categories and they are making 15 billion each quarter while others are losing money or making 0 profit?>>
Samsung will make about as much as Apple this year. I'll debate if you want to stay realistic.
>>How does it change the fact that besides all that, the number of sales is always growing yoy?>>
Sales growing, net income shrinking due to margin compression. The goal as a company is to make earnings.
>>How does it change the fact that Apple is already investing so much on their future (data centers, more investments on companies, supply chain contracts, etc?)>>
And they could have invested even more, which I think most wish they had to buy or build more growth and less reliance on a single product.
>>How does it change the fact that Apple earns now 3 or 4 times more money per quarter than they did jan 2010?>>
Well, I referenced late 2010 and they won't even make 50% more this quarter than they did in the 4th qtr of 2010 (granted not fair comparison as that is a holiday qtr)
So tell me. Why are so many Apple investors rushing for the door. Why has the company lost 4-6x in value what it ever did under Jobs? Why does every single reported supply chain data point show massively slowing sales?
1- Apple had 4 out of the first 5 best paid executives/engineers. So you are lying or have no idea.
2- you have no idea, but even if it does, so What? Besides that, ALL other OEMs are going downhill very fast.
3- net income grew yoy, especially if you have a functional brain cell and remembered about the less weak (8% yoy growth to the number 1 company in net income. that's huge!!). Even if it goes down, isn't 11 billion and still being number 1 or 2 enough?relience on a single product? they make more on macs than all oems combined on pc. they make more on ecosystem than microsoft. they make more on tablets than all other poems x10, they make more on phones 4x samsung, while all others lose. what are you talking about?
4- not fair comparison. Why are they rushing? they are ignorant stupid and foolish algorithms that understand 0 about Apple's business strategy that for them is a failure but was good enough to become the most valuable company of the world.
Again, you talked about sales shrinking and other BS and are slowly changing that...
You are a moron. Proved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
The CEO guided earnings down versus the same quarter last year. Sales alone mean little, the market cares about earnings. He told us earnings were going to shrink.
"shrink"? what a moron...
besides that, even if it becomes true, making more net profit than all others isn't enough? go away, troll.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
Again, you talked about sales shrinking and other BS and are slowly changing that...
You are a moron. Proved.
I'm curious...
Why do you think AAPL has lost so much value over the last year?
I agree that Apple's product pipeline is not as its best today. I also believe Cook and especially Oppenheimer should be sacked fir reasons i will not disclose, but this stock value game is just a game of degenerated capitalism and nothing more...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
How about instead of attacking me, you tell me why Apple is a good investment these days. What are they going to do to grow earnings? I don't think they can due to strategic missteps.
Because analysts have never gotten Apple right? Ever.
http://www.asymco.com/2011/12/16/on-being-reasonable/
If you put in the 2012 actuals, Apple reached the "analysts" 2014 goals 2 years early. What is funny is these so called analysts, will say Apple keeps missing quarters but they keep smashing the years out of the park. So, how can you miss earning estimates quarter after quarter but blow the yearly estimates out of the park year after year after year?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
1- Apple had 4 out of the first 5 best paid executives/engineers. So you are lying or have no idea.
2- you have no idea, but even if it does, so What? Besides that, ALL other OEMs are going downhill very fast.
3- net income grew yoy, especially if you have a functional brain cell and remembered about the less weak (8% yoy growth to the number 1 company in net income. that's huge!!). Even if it goes down, isn't 11 billion and still being number 1 or 2 enough?relience on a single product? they make more on macs than all oems combined on pc. they make more on ecosystem than microsoft. they make more on tablets than all other poems x10, they make more on phones 4x samsung, while all others lose. what are you talking about?
4- not fair comparison. Why are they rushing? they are ignorant stupid and foolish algorithms that understand 0 about Apple's business strategy that for them is a failure but was good enough to become the most valuable company of the world.
Again, you talked about sales shrinking and other BS and are slowly changing that...
You are a moron. Proved.
Listen, I'm not going to respond to the name calling from you or others.
1. They WERE the highest paid. The value of those packages has dropped along with the stock.
2. I should have said it is expected that Samsung will make as much. Further, Samsung is expected to sell 2x as many phones as Apple this year versus selling the same number not long ago. Sure, they sell lower margin/cost/profit phones but they are indeed making it up on volume.
3. You don't understand the importance of the iPhone to this company if you are talking about macs moving the needle.
4. WAS good enough. When they had the market to themselves. When the competition was light years behind. That is no longer the case, but you and Apple's management seem to think that is the case and that they need not change. The market is saying Tim Cook is very, very wrong in that regard. He has a chance to prove them wrong next week, I'll be here when the stock drops to $350 after he guides the next qtr down - yet again and we can all discuss how the analysts did have it right and they did see this coming even before management team saw it or reacted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N.
Because analysts have never gotten Apple right? Ever.
http://www.asymco.com/2011/12/16/on-being-reasonable/
If you put in the 2012 actuals, Apple reached the "analysts" 2014 goals 2 years early. What is funny is these so called analysts, will say Apple keeps missing quarters but they keep smashing the years out of the park. So, how can you miss earning estimates quarter after quarter but blow the yearly estimates out of the park year after year after year?
>>Because analysts have never gotten Apple right? Ever.>>
Oh come on Gundlach called this move when the stock was at $500-700. Did he get it right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
New 52 week low for Apple. Apple no longer the most valuable technology company in the world (IBM is based on enterprise value and Google will soon be more valuable also); $300 billion in value lost and counting. Samsung near its all time high and growing earnings while Apple shrinks.
Apple better do something to take on Samsung. Jobs wanted to enter thermonuclear war with them.....Cook is sitting around doing nothing to go on the offensive and take the narrative back. Current perception is Apple is playing catch up to Samsung which is an amazing thing to think given Cook has tens of billions in cash and all the resources in the world and can't come out with anything that creates any excitement or stems the bleeding for the worst drop in value in world history while the broader markets aren't also imploding.
You're beginning to sound like a broken record. For your information, SJ never cared about stock price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07
You're beginning to sound like a broken record. For your information, SJ never cared about stock price.
SJ is dead. How about we all move on and talk about Tim Cook who is running the company now. Should Tim Cook not care about the stock price and do everything SJ did. That must be a fun existence in life to not be your own man (by the way Steve told him to do exactly that and not care what he would have done).
CRUS announced they took a writeoff of inventory because of 'reduced demand for a high volume product.' Given everyone knows that is Apple, not a good thing when they have to write off $20mm+ of inventory that they can't sell because the end product isn't selling.
The market doesn't need Tim Cook to tell us sales are weak, others already have if you are listening.
This is based on the vehemence and passion with which the posters on these forums, eg: Wired and MSM tech news sites attack Apple. While I do regularly meet crazy Apple lovers in the street, I don't think I meet many or any users of said phones who are that passionate about what is basically, generally, just a phone or texting device to them.
Where are these passionate lovers of Android, outside the forums? I suspect in a windowless room somewhere, funded by an astroturfing/marketing budget.
What is more, I don't see HTC or Nexus users featuring much among these posters, it often seems to be the users of the products of a specific Korean company.
Apple is in trouble really i thought they were highly profitable increasing market share without lowering profits...every Qtr there making 10 billion plus and they have more monies in the bank then company ever....
the only crisis is engineered by samsung paid bloggers....you would think apple was losing billions and lay off staff..
In regards to Tim Cook being the worst ever Ceo...great that means he's doing well.
In regards to Apple taking care of Samsung ...doing nothing...really i thought they were sueing them worldwide for thieving...and there removing all there supply chain which long term is insanely bad news for samsung..lets see samsung producing there own products without stealing..and let watch apple's new supply chain start bidding for samsung present clients..
Apple stock price has been going up and down...but thats for the gamblers...lets look at the company and its performance and its future products and not what some wall st guy is doing to make a profit...clearly the way its stock has been compared its profits it makes no sense...profits have been great and steady..
Originally Posted by realpaulfreeman
I've long felt that there might be astroturfing of forums by certain Android vendors with attacks on Apple. I don't have any evidence for this, just a gut feel.
The only people without that gut feeling are the ones doing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
SJ is dead. How about we all move on and talk about Tim Cook who is running the company now. Should Tim Cook not care about the stock price and do everything SJ did. That must be a fun existence in life to not be your own man (by the way Steve told him to do exactly that and not care what he would have done).
He is dead but I hope his legacy is still alive at Apple. And that, I hope, is to never cares about stock price. So there you go. lol.