I've long felt that there might be astroturfing of forums by certain Android vendors with attacks on Apple. I don't have any evidence for this, just a gut feel.
This is based on the vehemence and passion with which the posters on these forums, eg: Wired and MSM tech news sites attack Apple. While I do regularly meet crazy Apple lovers in the street, I don't think I meet many or any users of said phones who are that passionate about what is basically, generally, just a phone or texting device to them.
Where are these passionate lovers of Android, outside the forums? I suspect in a windowless room somewhere, funded by an astroturfing/marketing budget.
What is more, I don't see HTC or Nexus users featuring much among these posters, it often seems to be the users of the products of a specific Korean company.
If reference to me, i've said time and again, I love the products. Own a lot, see them everywhere, people love Apple products no doubt. My issues are purely management and lack of articulated go forward strategy. Tim is going to get grilled by sellside analysts next week, he better be ready to give some answers or it will be a bloodbath.
If it drops below 400 look out below. It makes no sense but people tend to see round numbers as some sort of tipping point or milestone depending on which way the market is going. I'm thinking of jumping back in too. Not sure of the strike price though.
New 52 week low for Apple. Apple no longer the most valuable technology company in the world (IBM is based on enterprise value and Google will soon be more valuable also); $300 billion in value lost and counting. Samsung near its all time high and growing earnings while Apple shrinks.
Apple better do something to take on Samsung. Jobs wanted to enter thermonuclear war with them.....Cook is sitting around doing nothing to go on the offensive and take the narrative back. Current perception is Apple is playing catch up to Samsung which is an amazing thing to think given Cook has tens of billions in cash and all the resources in the world and can't come out with anything that creates any excitement or stems the bleeding for the worst drop in value in world history while the broader markets aren't also imploding.
Why do you keep telling this lie about apple not being the most valuable tech company? Apple's cap is currently 381 Billion. The only company in the world tech or otherwise that is more valuable is Exxon at 382 Billion. IBM is only at 233.9 Billion not even close! Please stop spreading false information just because you don't care for Apple.
Listen, I'm not going to respond to the name calling from you or others.
1. They WERE the highest paid. The value of those packages has dropped along with the stock.
2. I should have said it is expected that Samsung will make as much. Further, Samsung is expected to sell 2x as many phones as Apple this year versus selling the same number not long ago. Sure, they sell lower margin/cost/profit phones but they are indeed making it up on volume.
3. You don't understand the importance of the iPhone to this company if you are talking about macs moving the needle.
4. WAS good enough. When they had the market to themselves. When the competition was light years behind. That is no longer the case, but you and Apple's management seem to think that is the case and that they need not change. The market is saying Tim Cook is very, very wrong in that regard. He has a chance to prove them wrong next week, I'll be here when the stock drops to $350 after he guides the next qtr down - yet again and we can all discuss how the analysts did have it right and they did see this coming even before management team saw it or reacted.
Listen, Apple has never been about making the most money. They make the best products, provide the best customer experience, it doesn't matter whether the stock price is at 700 or 400. It never has, and hopefully never will.
The current stock price reflects market sentiments. A market dominated by trolls such as yourself, and Android fanboys, or people who expect iOS vs Android to be reminiscent of the PC vs Mac battle of the 80s.
Apple's growth is perfectly healthy, and some might argue, stronger than it has ever been. I won't even bother going into specifics.
STOCK PRICES ARE A POOR MEASURE OF A COMPANY'S PERFORMANCE.
Why do you think AAPL has lost so much value over the last year?
I explained before.
People (algorithms) that can't understand Apple's business model. For them Apple is always one step away to close doors.
The stupid illusion that other OEMs are catching up while everyone (besides samsung, and because they dominate other areas) is losing money, close to losing money or closing doors already. Be it on PCs, tablets, smartphones and ecosystem.
Also Apple sales are growing, even if market share is shrinking (the market exploded and those that decided to make lower quality devices sold more), but when rational people think about it, they see that Android users are changing to iOS (7 go to iOS from Android, 1 goes to android from iOS) and the market will saturate quickly, not to mention what i said in the first paragraph.
Basically, if you are a good analyst (or stock "gambler") you are very very rich. Otherwise "you" have no relevance to give advices or something like that, like these analysts and keyboard warriors do.
Apple lost nothing. Smart Shareholders lost nothing.
Like a man that knew about this subject once said, you only lose when you sell.
>>Because analysts have never gotten Apple right? Ever.>>
Oh come on Gundlach called this move when the stock was at $500-700. Did he get it right?
You can always find a minority that will get it right because they say what the others don't. Remember, you are talking about perception not the rare outlier.
So what is it? Are you talking about common perception of the masses or the rare single individual?
Gazoobee is right, jdnc123 should just be totally ignored, since he hasn't got it by now. He either is incapable of having a good thought, or he's not for real, i.e., a shill. I think it's the latter.
Why do you keep telling this lie about apple not being the most valuable tech company? Apple's cap is currently 381 Billion. The only company in the world tech or otherwise that is more valuable is Exxon at 382 Billion. IBM is only at 233.9 Billion not even close! Please stop spreading false information just because you don't care for Apple.
You are clueless. You think the value of Apple the business is 381 billion? No - that includes the cash they have. So you net the cash off to determine 'value' of the underlying business. Do that for Apple and IBM (plus net debt for IBM, Apple has no debt so its jsut take cash off mkt cap) and you will see that the underlying business....the people, the patents, the manufacturing, plants etc are valued higher at IBM than Apple than today.
You can always find a minority that will get it right because they say what the others don't. Remember, you are talking about perception not the rare outlier.
So what is it? Are you talking about common perception of the masses or the rare single individual?
Totally agree. The other guy said no analyst had EVER been right on Apple. I just named one to prove how silly a statement like that is.
Totally agree. The other guy said no analyst had EVER been right on Apple. I just named one to prove how silly a statement like that is.
I said analysts. As in plural. The collective whole. The thing Mr. Market listens to. The consensus.
BTW: Is there a way to fix the POS editor for the comments and get the "right-click" back? WHy do I want a "paste" as the only option when I right click on a mis-spelled word?
You are clueless. You think the value of Apple the business is 381 billion? No - that includes the cash they have. So you net the cash off to determine 'value' of the underlying business. Do that for Apple and IBM (plus net debt for IBM, Apple has no debt so its jsut take cash off mkt cap) and you will see that the underlying business....the people, the patents, the manufacturing, plants etc are valued higher at IBM than Apple than today.
That is a fact.
Exactly. that's the perception of most shareholders and analysts. I mean, look at the P/E!
And as the last 15 years have shown, almost every single one of them is stupid and clueless and simply wrong. And because of that, there's a 99,99999% chance that you are stupid and clueless too.
I'm not offending, just using Mathematics. It's logic.
Apple lost nothing. Smart Shareholders lost nothing.
Like a man that knew about this subject once said, you only lose when you sell.
So, in your opinion, the smart shareholders are the ones who didn't buy over, say, $450?
Just so you know... at some point in a person's life, they do sell. If you happened to have bought at even $410 and you had to sell at this point... guess what.... you'd lose.
there are def people on here doing PR for samsung and possible even google.
I doubt it. I've been online for decades, been a forum sysop, and have seen real trolls and astroturfers. There's nothing like that here.
First off, why would anyone care about this forum? It's got a bad rep on the 'net as being full of insulting zealots. Nobody can change the mind of a fanatic, so why waste time or money trying?
Secondly, a inside campaign like that would use lots of usernames to make their comments look like some kind of widely popular thought. Instead, all we see around here is the same old group of people debating every time, with an occasional newcomer.
Finally, if you notice, there's no group of users bringing up Samsung or Google on their own. What you do see, is the website itself constantly creating click bait headline threads to keep people online, with a few mods stirring up the pot now and again.
Tin foil hats are unnecessary. It's just the usual ad supported site methodology.
Exactly. that's the perception of most shareholders and analysts. I mean, look at the P/E!
And as the last 15 years have shown, almost every single one of them is stupid and clueless and simply wrong. And because of that, there's a 99,99999% chance that you are stupid and clueless too.
I'm not offending, just using Mathematics. It's logic.
Well a number of them have said sales are slowing, that Apple can't deliver new products due to execution, pre-production issues, etc.
You will sound very silly if Tim confirms that they were all correct.
So, in your opinion, the smart shareholders are the ones who didn't buy over, say, $450?
Just so you know... at some point in a person's life, they do sell. If you happened to have bought at even $410 and you had to sell at this point... guess what.... you'd lose.
So, in my opinion, smart shareholders are waiting for the shit storm to pass and haven't sold their stock, and haven't bought more when they realize how much Apple stock is far from the company performance.
It's stupid to invest in Apple stock now, when Apple's performance has 0 impact on it. P/E of what?
Comments
paid blogger more like for samsung.
Quote:
Originally Posted by realpaulfreeman
I've long felt that there might be astroturfing of forums by certain Android vendors with attacks on Apple. I don't have any evidence for this, just a gut feel.
This is based on the vehemence and passion with which the posters on these forums, eg: Wired and MSM tech news sites attack Apple. While I do regularly meet crazy Apple lovers in the street, I don't think I meet many or any users of said phones who are that passionate about what is basically, generally, just a phone or texting device to them.
Where are these passionate lovers of Android, outside the forums? I suspect in a windowless room somewhere, funded by an astroturfing/marketing budget.
What is more, I don't see HTC or Nexus users featuring much among these posters, it often seems to be the users of the products of a specific Korean company.
If reference to me, i've said time and again, I love the products. Own a lot, see them everywhere, people love Apple products no doubt. My issues are purely management and lack of articulated go forward strategy. Tim is going to get grilled by sellside analysts next week, he better be ready to give some answers or it will be a bloodbath.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NelsonX
He, he, I might buy bellow 400$!
If it drops below 400 look out below. It makes no sense but people tend to see round numbers as some sort of tipping point or milestone depending on which way the market is going. I'm thinking of jumping back in too. Not sure of the strike price though.
My oh my, what ever will happen when Apple removes the innovate button from Facsimile Sams' copy machine?
Quote:
Listen, I'm not going to respond to the name calling from you or others.
1. They WERE the highest paid. The value of those packages has dropped along with the stock.
2. I should have said it is expected that Samsung will make as much. Further, Samsung is expected to sell 2x as many phones as Apple this year versus selling the same number not long ago. Sure, they sell lower margin/cost/profit phones but they are indeed making it up on volume.
3. You don't understand the importance of the iPhone to this company if you are talking about macs moving the needle.
4. WAS good enough. When they had the market to themselves. When the competition was light years behind. That is no longer the case, but you and Apple's management seem to think that is the case and that they need not change. The market is saying Tim Cook is very, very wrong in that regard. He has a chance to prove them wrong next week, I'll be here when the stock drops to $350 after he guides the next qtr down - yet again and we can all discuss how the analysts did have it right and they did see this coming even before management team saw it or reacted.
Listen, Apple has never been about making the most money. They make the best products, provide the best customer experience, it doesn't matter whether the stock price is at 700 or 400. It never has, and hopefully never will.
The current stock price reflects market sentiments. A market dominated by trolls such as yourself, and Android fanboys, or people who expect iOS vs Android to be reminiscent of the PC vs Mac battle of the 80s.
Apple's growth is perfectly healthy, and some might argue, stronger than it has ever been. I won't even bother going into specifics.
STOCK PRICES ARE A POOR MEASURE OF A COMPANY'S PERFORMANCE.
Hell, firing Ballmer would make more sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
I'm curious...
Why do you think AAPL has lost so much value over the last year?
I explained before.
People (algorithms) that can't understand Apple's business model. For them Apple is always one step away to close doors.
The stupid illusion that other OEMs are catching up while everyone (besides samsung, and because they dominate other areas) is losing money, close to losing money or closing doors already. Be it on PCs, tablets, smartphones and ecosystem.
Also Apple sales are growing, even if market share is shrinking (the market exploded and those that decided to make lower quality devices sold more), but when rational people think about it, they see that Android users are changing to iOS (7 go to iOS from Android, 1 goes to android from iOS) and the market will saturate quickly, not to mention what i said in the first paragraph.
Basically, if you are a good analyst (or stock "gambler") you are very very rich. Otherwise "you" have no relevance to give advices or something like that, like these analysts and keyboard warriors do.
Apple lost nothing. Smart Shareholders lost nothing.
Like a man that knew about this subject once said, you only lose when you sell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
>>Because analysts have never gotten Apple right? Ever.>>
Oh come on Gundlach called this move when the stock was at $500-700. Did he get it right?
You can always find a minority that will get it right because they say what the others don't. Remember, you are talking about perception not the rare outlier.
So what is it? Are you talking about common perception of the masses or the rare single individual?
There is no such thing as a paid forum shill working for Samsung against their enemies.
Oh wait, I mean there is:
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/04/samsung-taiwan-marketers-allegedly-created-astroturf-smear-campaign-against-htc/
Quote:
Originally Posted by genovelle
Why do you keep telling this lie about apple not being the most valuable tech company? Apple's cap is currently 381 Billion. The only company in the world tech or otherwise that is more valuable is Exxon at 382 Billion. IBM is only at 233.9 Billion not even close! Please stop spreading false information just because you don't care for Apple.
You are clueless. You think the value of Apple the business is 381 billion? No - that includes the cash they have. So you net the cash off to determine 'value' of the underlying business. Do that for Apple and IBM (plus net debt for IBM, Apple has no debt so its jsut take cash off mkt cap) and you will see that the underlying business....the people, the patents, the manufacturing, plants etc are valued higher at IBM than Apple than today.
That is a fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N.
You can always find a minority that will get it right because they say what the others don't. Remember, you are talking about perception not the rare outlier.
So what is it? Are you talking about common perception of the masses or the rare single individual?
Totally agree. The other guy said no analyst had EVER been right on Apple. I just named one to prove how silly a statement like that is.
thats great then apple can buy all the stock back and you toads can move onto something else to invest in..long live SJ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
Totally agree. The other guy said no analyst had EVER been right on Apple. I just named one to prove how silly a statement like that is.
I said analysts. As in plural. The collective whole. The thing Mr. Market listens to. The consensus.
BTW: Is there a way to fix the POS editor for the comments and get the "right-click" back? WHy do I want a "paste" as the only option when I right click on a mis-spelled word?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
You are clueless. You think the value of Apple the business is 381 billion? No - that includes the cash they have. So you net the cash off to determine 'value' of the underlying business. Do that for Apple and IBM (plus net debt for IBM, Apple has no debt so its jsut take cash off mkt cap) and you will see that the underlying business....the people, the patents, the manufacturing, plants etc are valued higher at IBM than Apple than today.
That is a fact.
Exactly. that's the perception of most shareholders and analysts. I mean, look at the P/E!
And as the last 15 years have shown, almost every single one of them is stupid and clueless and simply wrong. And because of that, there's a 99,99999% chance that you are stupid and clueless too.
I'm not offending, just using Mathematics. It's logic.
jdnc123 this is appleinsider not samsung liar...move on with bs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
I explained before.
etc. etc. etc.Apple lost nothing. Smart Shareholders lost nothing.
Like a man that knew about this subject once said, you only lose when you sell.
So, in your opinion, the smart shareholders are the ones who didn't buy over, say, $450?
Just so you know... at some point in a person's life, they do sell. If you happened to have bought at even $410 and you had to sell at this point... guess what.... you'd lose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcasey
there are def people on here doing PR for samsung and possible even google.
I doubt it. I've been online for decades, been a forum sysop, and have seen real trolls and astroturfers. There's nothing like that here.
First off, why would anyone care about this forum? It's got a bad rep on the 'net as being full of insulting zealots. Nobody can change the mind of a fanatic, so why waste time or money trying?
Secondly, a inside campaign like that would use lots of usernames to make their comments look like some kind of widely popular thought. Instead, all we see around here is the same old group of people debating every time, with an occasional newcomer.
Finally, if you notice, there's no group of users bringing up Samsung or Google on their own. What you do see, is the website itself constantly creating click bait headline threads to keep people online, with a few mods stirring up the pot now and again.
Tin foil hats are unnecessary. It's just the usual ad supported site methodology.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
Exactly. that's the perception of most shareholders and analysts. I mean, look at the P/E!
And as the last 15 years have shown, almost every single one of them is stupid and clueless and simply wrong. And because of that, there's a 99,99999% chance that you are stupid and clueless too.
I'm not offending, just using Mathematics. It's logic.
Well a number of them have said sales are slowing, that Apple can't deliver new products due to execution, pre-production issues, etc.
You will sound very silly if Tim confirms that they were all correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
Well a number of them have said sales are slowing, that Apple can't deliver new products due to execution, pre-production issues, etc.
You will sound very silly if Tim confirms that they were all correct.
What is correct?
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
So, in your opinion, the smart shareholders are the ones who didn't buy over, say, $450?
Just so you know... at some point in a person's life, they do sell. If you happened to have bought at even $410 and you had to sell at this point... guess what.... you'd lose.
So, in my opinion, smart shareholders are waiting for the shit storm to pass and haven't sold their stock, and haven't bought more when they realize how much Apple stock is far from the company performance.
It's stupid to invest in Apple stock now, when Apple's performance has 0 impact on it. P/E of what?