You go from saying the consensus is reasonable when it has been shown it is not year after year after year after year. It makes your entire premise mostly worthless and typical of group think with no thought.
And quoting BI, a web site run by a guy banned from the securities industry to prison for fraud. Rich.
With a P/E of 15 and a PE/G of .4 you call that "over-valued"? What do you call Amazon and Google? You keep saying Apple's revenue growth has stopped but there is 0 evidence of that at this point. In short, you keep lying (or acting like a parrot to internet meme's). We will, of course, know more in about a week on how this quarter has done.
Steve gonna roll over in his grave when Samsung passes Apple in value in the not too distant future at this rate.
Ashes can roll?
COME. OFF. IT.
And didn't you just agree that Steve didn't care about the value of the company? So please, just shut up. You care about something that no one at the company who matters does. Maybe deal with that in your own terms and quit lying.
So I can call anyone on this board "stupid" and "clueless" and not have to worry about it?
Really?
Of course not. Who did that? Only someone without taste and the knowledge of the rules of society would do that.
But calling rock to a rock? That's worth a cookie, at least.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
Hmmm... sounds to me from everything you've written, that AAPL has been acting exactly like every other stock in the markets... up down up down up down.
Just saying...
Microsoft on the same period?
Cisco?
IBM?
Google?
Samsung?
HP
Dell
APPLE
Now, you can analyze the data (don't forget about those scales!), especially Apple's graph where you can clearly see the overall tendency to go up and the strategic drops after 98,
You can also see how some stocks are "flat" (Microsoft, Cisco), others gradually going down and others that have no correlation between their drops and products from that company.
If you are mocking someone's predictions you have to find a way to put "Eric Schmidt" in there. There's no excuse if you don't.
Ooh ooh, can I play?
- Developers will switch from favoring iOS to Android in 6 months since developers follow market share, and Android has more market share. Dec 2011.
- By summer 2012 you'll see the majority of new TV's coming with Google TV. Dec 2011.
I was just pointing out that they were peak data points. In the past it has always corrected somewhat after a sharp rise, although obviously this was more than correction. A number of institutional investors would have needed to dump their stakes to drive it down that much.
Quote:
The rest is an indictment of management and the current strategy.
Ironically Jobs seemed somewhat hostile toward shareholders. I would say a portion of this is also uncertainty.The stock was at a high point. If they didn't feel confident regarding whatever measure of acceleration, many of these companies may have taken whatever profits by reducing their stakes.
Quote:
People don't and really many can't invest in a company that won't tell them what they plan to do strategy-wise. How do you as an analyst go to a PM and say 'well, the stock performed well under Steve Jobs, but nobody knows what Tim Cook wants to do strategy-wise, but i'll make a leap of faith.' That is the harsh reality. People want to know the strategy and Tim is still operating like he's Steve Jobs. He isn't. Articulate a plan. Tell us if you can grow earnings. Saying we want to make the best products doesn't cut it with the stock market if those products aren't selling as good or the margins are being slashed. Listen, I'm sure the guys making Beta though they had a great product also. Just making a great product isn't always a great strategy.
Well this board seems to typically disregard analysts unless they set extremely high price targets without saying much else. My own irritation there would be that many of the cited articles on here do not provide further reasoning or any basis on how these guys reached their conclusions. These guys may have been more favorable toward Jobs due to his record over the past few years.
Quote:
This has to be a nightmare for employees.
I would agree with that.
I forgot to add their stock price has frequently fallen right before they announce earnings. That also happened under Jobs. It also often rose sharply right after then almost immediately corrected.
What do you believe. Its just mean speculators and hedge funds being mean and they aren't smart enough like you to grasp how infallible Apple is?
I love the products. I hate how this current management team has destroyed any reason to invest in this company. It is sad and pathetic how they are running the company from an investment perspective. I get it, the don't care, they just want to focus on products. Well, they can't seem to get products out any longer and sales are slowing dramatically.
This company has lost $300 billion in value and you see no problem with it. I do. Nothing like this has ever happened before in the history of financial markets and I challenge you to tell me one time it has. Tim Cook will go down in history as one of the worst CEOs the world has ever seen. mark it down.
Market capitalization is no indicator of how well a company is doing. It just indicates the temperament of a crowd of people (some times a hostile crowd when the financial institutions are involved). A loss of $300 billion in market capitalization is meaningless in Apple's case. All it show is that the price AAPL has gone down. Nothing else. Don't sweat it.
The current management is doing a superb job. They are running based on satisfying the consumer. Not to satisfy your 'investment perspective'. Its the products that made the company not the investment community. In fact Apple has made a lot of investors rich. So please.... Just stop.
You are clueless. You think the value of Apple the business is 381 billion? No - that includes the cash they have. So you net the cash off to determine 'value' of the underlying business. Do that for Apple and IBM (plus net debt for IBM, Apple has no debt so its jsut take cash off mkt cap) and you will see that the underlying business....the people, the patents, the manufacturing, plants etc are valued higher at IBM than Apple than today.
That is a fact.
So banks and other financial institutions are worthless because they hold a lot of cash?
Jap companies did the same... Japan's top 5 companies gathered together to try to put-down Samsung. I wonder what makes these taiwan companies think they could pull it if top jap companies couldn't do it.
So the main point of the AI and AP stories are that Samsung is playing dirty in Taiwan,
Many of us here are convinced they are playing dirty here and elsewhere on the Net by paying trolls to spread FUD about Apple. So by this reasoning, jdnc 123 is a new kind of Samsung troll, focusing only on Apples's declining market value.
It's not beyond my paranoid imagination that Samsung is funding a more widespread FUD campaing to tank Apple's market vakue. The more I think about it, the more sense it makes. A Blodgett here, a WSJ blogger there, and you have the current situation.
It makes more sense than thinking "the Market" is as stupid as it seems to be right now.
<span style="line-height:1.231;">Market capitalization is no indicator of how well a company is doing. It just indicates the temperament of a crowd of people (some times a hostile crowd when the financial institutions are involved). A loss of $300 billion in market capitalization is meaningless in Apple's case. All it show is that the price AAPL has gone down. Nothing else. Don't sweat it.</span>
<span style="line-height:1.231;">The current management is doing a superb job. They are running based on satisfying the consumer. Not to satisfy your 'investment perspective'. Its the products that made the company not the investment community. In fact Apple has made a lot of investors rich. So please.... Just stop.</span>
With a P/E of 15 and a PE/G of .4 you call that "over-valued"? What do you call Amazon and Google? You keep saying Apple's revenue growth has stopped but there is 0 evidence of that at this point. In short, you keep lying (or acting like a parrot to internet meme's). We will, of course, know more in about a week on how this quarter has done.
Earnings growth has not only stopped but going negative, revenue has dramatically slowed (to be expected vs previous rates). Doing it while Google and Samsung continue to grow earnings (Samsung huge expected increase in earnings this year to a level on par with Apple) make it an indictment of Tim Cook as a leader.
It is well known how secretive Apple is even internally. There has to be some major consternation at the water cooler as to wtf is going on and if they would be better off going elsewhere in silicon valley given management not only keeps its shareholders in the dark, but also most of its employees.
At $350 per share, Apple will be worth less than IBM, MSFT and GOOG. Well done Tim and team. Well done.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
Makes many of the points I have made....
To be sure, much of the pessimism around Apple is justified. The case against the company is very easy to make right now:
The company's growth has vanished: Earnings are expected to shrink this year.
.
.
.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/apples-stock-price-2013-4#ixzz2QjdP3bmn
Again, read the link I posted:
http://www.asymco.com/2011/12/16/on-being-reasonable/
You go from saying the consensus is reasonable when it has been shown it is not year after year after year after year. It makes your entire premise mostly worthless and typical of group think with no thought.
And quoting BI, a web site run by a guy banned from the securities industry to prison for fraud. Rich.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
Sure, part of the drop is it was overvalued.
With a P/E of 15 and a PE/G of .4 you call that "over-valued"? What do you call Amazon and Google? You keep saying Apple's revenue growth has stopped but there is 0 evidence of that at this point. In short, you keep lying (or acting like a parrot to internet meme's). We will, of course, know more in about a week on how this quarter has done.
Originally Posted by jdnc123
Steve gonna roll over in his grave when Samsung passes Apple in value in the not too distant future at this rate.
Ashes can roll?
COME. OFF. IT.
And didn't you just agree that Steve didn't care about the value of the company? So please, just shut up. You care about something that no one at the company who matters does. Maybe deal with that in your own terms and quit lying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
So I can call anyone on this board "stupid" and "clueless" and not have to worry about it?
Really?
Of course not. Who did that? Only someone without taste and the knowledge of the rules of society would do that.
But calling rock to a rock? That's worth a cookie, at least.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
Hmmm... sounds to me from everything you've written, that AAPL has been acting exactly like every other stock in the markets... up down up down up down.
Just saying...
Microsoft on the same period?
Cisco?
IBM?
Google?
Samsung?
HP
Dell
APPLE
Now, you can analyze the data (don't forget about those scales!), especially Apple's graph where you can clearly see the overall tendency to go up and the strategic drops after 98,
You can also see how some stocks are "flat" (Microsoft, Cisco), others gradually going down and others that have no correlation between their drops and products from that company.
Then, go home and sleep.
Ooops! AAPL 398$
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
Then, go home and sleep.
AAPL at $398.
Sleep on that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
AAPL at $398.
Sleep on that.
Why?
you are bad at trolling.
No matter how many accounts you and others like you use, you were proven wrong. And that's it?
- Developers will switch from favoring iOS to Android in 6 months since developers follow market share, and Android has more market share. Dec 2011.
- By summer 2012 you'll see the majority of new TV's coming with Google TV. Dec 2011.
Feel free to add your favs...
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
Why?
you are bad at trolling.
No matter how many accounts you and others like you use, you were proven wrong. And that's it?
LOL!
I know, Pedro. Anyone who doesn't agree with you is trolling.
As mentioned... you and jdnc (or whatever) are cut from the same cloth... just opposite sides of the coin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
Sure, part of the drop is it was overvalued.
I was just pointing out that they were peak data points. In the past it has always corrected somewhat after a sharp rise, although obviously this was more than correction. A number of institutional investors would have needed to dump their stakes to drive it down that much.
Quote:
The rest is an indictment of management and the current strategy.
Ironically Jobs seemed somewhat hostile toward shareholders. I would say a portion of this is also uncertainty.The stock was at a high point. If they didn't feel confident regarding whatever measure of acceleration, many of these companies may have taken whatever profits by reducing their stakes.
Quote:
People don't and really many can't invest in a company that won't tell them what they plan to do strategy-wise. How do you as an analyst go to a PM and say 'well, the stock performed well under Steve Jobs, but nobody knows what Tim Cook wants to do strategy-wise, but i'll make a leap of faith.' That is the harsh reality. People want to know the strategy and Tim is still operating like he's Steve Jobs. He isn't. Articulate a plan. Tell us if you can grow earnings. Saying we want to make the best products doesn't cut it with the stock market if those products aren't selling as good or the margins are being slashed. Listen, I'm sure the guys making Beta though they had a great product also. Just making a great product isn't always a great strategy.
Well this board seems to typically disregard analysts unless they set extremely high price targets without saying much else. My own irritation there would be that many of the cited articles on here do not provide further reasoning or any basis on how these guys reached their conclusions. These guys may have been more favorable toward Jobs due to his record over the past few years.
Quote:
This has to be a nightmare for employees.
I would agree with that.
I forgot to add their stock price has frequently fallen right before they announce earnings. That also happened under Jobs. It also often rose sharply right after then almost immediately corrected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee
Ooh ooh, can I play?
- Developers will switch from favoring iOS to Android in 6 months since developers follow market share, and Android has more market share. Dec 2011.
- By summer 2012 you'll see the majority of new TV's coming with Google TV. Dec 2011.
Feel free to add your favs...
- Apple didn't aprove _____________ app. - google never submitted such app.
- Everybody will be on the internet in 7 years - despite hunger, wars, crisis, etc.
- google is wining just like Microsoft did - despite Microsoft nothing, and google's android is losing on every rational metric possible.
It's your turn again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
LOL!
I know, Pedro. Anyone who doesn't agree with you is trolling.
As mentioned... you and jdnc (or whatever) are cut from the same cloth... just opposite sides of the coin.
This wasn't about agreeing or not. The data was there, the numbers were there, logic was there.
You (no matter what account) were just being retarded. That's not having a different opinion.
Have a nice day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
This wasn't about agreeing or not. The data was there, the numbers were there, logic was there.
You (no matter what account) were just being retarded. That's not having a different opinion.
Have a nice day.
Yes... your data showed me exactly what I said... stocks go up and down and up and down and up and down.... lol
By the way... you made an error. The numbers "used" to be there.
Please, keep believing that I have more than one account... I like it that way.
"retarded"... hell, I have a list of infractions for less than that. Mods?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
What do you believe. Its just mean speculators and hedge funds being mean and they aren't smart enough like you to grasp how infallible Apple is?
I love the products. I hate how this current management team has destroyed any reason to invest in this company. It is sad and pathetic how they are running the company from an investment perspective. I get it, the don't care, they just want to focus on products. Well, they can't seem to get products out any longer and sales are slowing dramatically.
This company has lost $300 billion in value and you see no problem with it. I do. Nothing like this has ever happened before in the history of financial markets and I challenge you to tell me one time it has. Tim Cook will go down in history as one of the worst CEOs the world has ever seen. mark it down.
Market capitalization is no indicator of how well a company is doing. It just indicates the temperament of a crowd of people (some times a hostile crowd when the financial institutions are involved). A loss of $300 billion in market capitalization is meaningless in Apple's case. All it show is that the price AAPL has gone down. Nothing else. Don't sweat it.
The current management is doing a superb job. They are running based on satisfying the consumer. Not to satisfy your 'investment perspective'. Its the products that made the company not the investment community. In fact Apple has made a lot of investors rich. So please.... Just stop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
You are clueless. You think the value of Apple the business is 381 billion? No - that includes the cash they have. So you net the cash off to determine 'value' of the underlying business. Do that for Apple and IBM (plus net debt for IBM, Apple has no debt so its jsut take cash off mkt cap) and you will see that the underlying business....the people, the patents, the manufacturing, plants etc are valued higher at IBM than Apple than today.
That is a fact.
So banks and other financial institutions are worthless because they hold a lot of cash?
What drugs are you on?
Many of us here are convinced they are playing dirty here and elsewhere on the Net by paying trolls to spread FUD about Apple. So by this reasoning, jdnc 123 is a new kind of Samsung troll, focusing only on Apples's declining market value.
It's not beyond my paranoid imagination that Samsung is funding a more widespread FUD campaing to tank Apple's market vakue. The more I think about it, the more sense it makes. A Blodgett here, a WSJ blogger there, and you have the current situation.
It makes more sense than thinking "the Market" is as stupid as it seems to be right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee
Ooh ooh, can I play?
- Developers will switch from favoring iOS to Android in 6 months since developers follow market share, and Android has more market share. Dec 2011.
- By summer 2012 you'll see the majority of new TV's coming with Google TV. Dec 2011.
Feel free to add your favs...
Google Play quarterly revenue will match or exceed the AppStore within 12 months?
Hey, someone else making some sense!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N.
With a P/E of 15 and a PE/G of .4 you call that "over-valued"? What do you call Amazon and Google? You keep saying Apple's revenue growth has stopped but there is 0 evidence of that at this point. In short, you keep lying (or acting like a parrot to internet meme's). We will, of course, know more in about a week on how this quarter has done.
Earnings growth has not only stopped but going negative, revenue has dramatically slowed (to be expected vs previous rates). Doing it while Google and Samsung continue to grow earnings (Samsung huge expected increase in earnings this year to a level on par with Apple) make it an indictment of Tim Cook as a leader.
It is well known how secretive Apple is even internally. There has to be some major consternation at the water cooler as to wtf is going on and if they would be better off going elsewhere in silicon valley given management not only keeps its shareholders in the dark, but also most of its employees.
At $350 per share, Apple will be worth less than IBM, MSFT and GOOG. Well done Tim and team. Well done.