First of all, I don't own any Android devices and probably never will. I own two MacBook Pros, one MacPro, one Mac Mini, bought two iMacs for friends and family in the last three years, and owned an iPhone 3G, 4 and 4S. The iPhone 5 is the first iPhone since the 3G that I haven't jumped on because it offered nothing compelling over the 4S, which is part of Apple's problem right now.
The carrier line charts clearly show iOS growth at AT&T, but flat iOS growth at Verizon. Remove the holiday bumps from the Verizon chart and what do you get? You get a little iOS above Android and a little below, but overall when you average out the peaks and valleys in the iOS Verizon chart you get something very similar to the Android line. The only thing this proves is that iPhone gets a nice holiday bump while Android does not.
None of your screaming and shouting is going to change the fact that at Verizon, iOS and Android are pretty much even once you average out the peaks and valleys. At AT&T, iOS is clearly king. However, you cannot draw any overall market conclusions from these graphs as a significant portion of iOS sales occur outside of the US.
I love Apple, I even own Apple stock. I understand the need to want to write these types of articles given all of the negative news lately. I just think this article is reaching a false conclusion based largely on AT&T numbers because the Verizon numbers are not really that impressive.
MetroPCS is well on it's way to be considered a major carrier and they don't offer the iPhone.
They're tiny in comparison to ATT and VZW, and in any event, after they're bought out by T-Mobile, many of their subscribers will flee to the iPhone, I'd guess. The reaction to to T-Mobile's offering of the iPhone does not seem to augur well for the other smartphones.
The only comparative data that would mean anything to those of us in the market for a phone in the US (and who have some money) would be between iPhones and the handful of high-end, large-screen Android phones we keep hearing are selling in the millions - notably Samsung's Galaxy S amd possibly the Note series, the Nexus phones and (coming up) the well-reviewed new HTC one.
Anybody got any data on that? As I am conflicted due to suffering from a case of screen size envy..... ...so I'd like to see those phones putting some pressure on Apple to feed my pixel and inches greed.
But in the US... thanks to subsidies... iPhones and Android phones are the same price.
Oh. Never mind!
Here (Canada) the model is slowly shifting from outright subsidy to more of a "financing" model. The big carriers still do things the old way, but the newer and/or smaller carriers "advance" a phone to you, for which you pay $X/month until it's paid off. There seems to be a limit to how much they'll float though, so more expensive phones require a lump payment up front.
Here (Canada) the model is slowly shifting from outright subsidy to more of a "financing" model. The big carriers still do things the old way, but the newer and/or smaller carriers "advance" a phone to you, for which you pay $X/month until it's paid off. There seems to be a limit to how much they'll float though, so more expensive phones require a lump payment up front.
In the US, besides getting a device that retails at around $100 more than the competition they also hold their value much better. This has made many an iPhone owner be able to sell their iPhone after a year or two with the ability to keep getting a newer model with cash left over. It's one of the perks the subsidy model has afforded those that want iPhones.
In my experience over the years, folks that bought Android phones as their first smartphone immediately become disenchanted by them for numerous reasons from battery life, cheap quality, complexity, instabilities, pick one...
When they see my iPhone and see how polished it is both in terms of physical build-quality and the simplicity/smoothness of iOS they are sold. Most have abandoned Android.
Android is so overrated. It seems to cater to several demographics:
- 1st-time buyers looking for a cheap, smartphone with price being their only consideration.
- Individuals that want an open, infinitely-customizable smartphone and have way too much time on their hands. They will customize their smartphone so much, no one else will be able to figure out how to make a phone call on it.
- iHaters that want nothing to do with Apple simply because of a false-belief that Apple is more "evil" than the numerous Android handset makers like Samsung whose CEO is a convicted criminal, and Google that has cleverly masqueraded their "open and free" OS as a way to covertly gather as much information on you, the product, and sell "you" to the highest bidder.
Agree, I've even known people to get political about it claiming that Apple is more liberal. People who make such claims really don't get that all of these tech companies could care less about social politics & only care about lobbying for their own benefit.
To add one to your list, many of the android users I know who've stayed Android upgrade like crazy trying to find a phone that works better or can support the latest & greatest Android OS. In contrast (and despite claims) most of the iPhone users I know keep the same phone they have past 2-3 upgrade cycles because it works so good they can't justify upgrading. I was the same way, I went from the 3GS to the 5. I gave my 3GS to someone else & it's still working great for them. When my wife's old Palm died I had to borrow someone's older Android (like year newer than my old 3GS) to get her through to her eligibility for an upgrade. That thing was like a dinosaur next to my 3GS! Granted it was an older Android & they've supposedly come a long way but I have yet to come across an Android that doesn't look the part of a Java based phone if you know what I mean. My wife hated that phone, just absolutely hated it, but she is in love with her new iPhone (she's hard to impress, she hates her Mac most of the time).
You will need a check with the ophthalmologist as well. Verizon's "other" sales line starts above the iPhone's, then iPhone's crosses the "other" line in early 2011, then declines, the spikes in 2012, and begins a decline....difficult to draw any conclusion. Additionally "other" presumably covers all Android phones whether they are free ones or $300 ones
It would be good to have some numbers to know what percentage of Android sales are high end phones.
All we really have is Samsung's claims based on Galaxy S "shipments" 100 million over the last three years, 10% of Schmidt's claim of a billion Android "activations", occurring later this year.
Given that Samsung is the largest Android manufacturer, it seems that around 90% of Android devices are low to mid range.
That's the elephant in the room Android promoters don't want to face.
Look at Samsung's quarterly financials, and you will see that their revenue and profits are growing MUCH faster than Apple's. I assume this is due to their mobile phone business, since the other markets they are in are fairly mature.
iPhone share is only growing at AT&T, but the Verizon chart very clearly shows (unless you are blind) that iOS peaked between September and December 2012, but latest quarter shows iPhone numbers back to pre-holiday levels. Okay, what were those pre-holiday levels? Look at the line before the holiday - it pretty much hovers at the same level as the Android line. That shows flat growth of iOS overall at Verizon with a spike during the holidays - the rest of the graph is flat and post holiday shows a steep decline to pre-holiday levels.
So yes, iOS share is increasing at AT&T but looks to be flatlining with Android on Verizon.
But you're not taking into consideration the huge spikes the iPhone has while Android doesn't. The VZW graph does support my idea about India and Apple not letting the competition get entrenched.
What's shocking to me is how there's no "bump" with an Android new product intro -- such as the SG3 -- in either ATT or VZW's graphs. Compare that to the massive spike when a new iPhone is introduced! Shocking, because one would not get that impression reading the tech news.
It's no wonder that these weasels don't put out actual shipment volumes or sales numbers.
Btw, where are all those gazillions of Android activations every day (that Rubin used to boast about) in these numbers?!
It shouldn't really be shocking, when was the last time anyone saw people line up to buy any Android phone. The fact is that consumers aren't choosing Android phones, they're having them pushed on them by carrier salespeople because they don't understand the differences. The vocal few Android enthusiasts who haunt these forums are entirely atypical and a tiny minority.
Groan. More bogus data. Thanks. Very persuasive. NOT.
Is it any wonder that nobody releases actual data besides Apple?
Apple has nothing to hide, and people try to second guess and knock down those actual, factual figures using inaccurate estimations, random drug fueled speculation and biased, bogus figures that people are merely pulling out of their butts?
Apple is the only one telling the truth. Everybody else pleads the fifth, and nobody finds that to be suspicious at all?
Here (Canada) the model is slowly shifting from outright subsidy to more of a "financing" model. The big carriers still do things the old way, but the newer and/or smaller carriers "advance" a phone to you, for which you pay $X/month until it's paid off. There seems to be a limit to how much they'll float though, so more expensive phones require a lump payment up front.
And this is the way T-Mobile is going as well. Be interesting to see their numbers over the next year (especially if they combine with MetroPCS).
It shouldn't really be shocking, when was the last time anyone saw people line up to buy any Android phone. The fact is that consumers aren't choosing Android phones, they're having them pushed on them by carrier salespeople because they don't understand the differences. The vocal few Android enthusiasts who haunt these forums are entirely atypical and a tiny minority.
There is a very large demand for the HTC One right now.
It doesn't support his weltanschauung, therefore it's bogus.
It's the time honoured methodology employed by governments and politicians faced with inconvenient truths - attack the credibility of the messenger and try at all costs not to engage the message.
[...] The fact is that consumers aren't choosing Android phones, they're having them pushed on them by carrier salespeople because they don't understand the differences.
The "fact" is that I can introduce you to a CROWD of Android users who would disagree with you. They do SO know the difference. They either don't care or prefer one key feature, like the kiss-to-share thing or the big screen or whatever. Or, like in the case of my daughter, her feature phone broke in the middle of a carrier contract and her carrier doesn't offer the iPhone. They gave her a Galaxy 3S for next to nothing, while getting her into an iPhone would have meant buying out her contract. She really doesn't seem to care, though. As far as she's concerned, voice is voice, SMS is SMS, Maps are Maps, the games she wants are available on both platforms, and with the Galaxy she gets a bigger screen. Apparently what matters to you or me doesn't necessarily resonate with everyone else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
The vocal few Android enthusiasts who haunt these forums are entirely atypical and a tiny minority.
On that point we agree. The Android users I know did consciously choose it, some for perfectly valid reasons, some probably not, but I have no doubt that they would think debates like this are the absolutely HEIGHT of foolish geekery!
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
Given that Samsung is the largest Android manufacturer, it seems that around 90% of Android devices are low to mid range.
That's the elephant in the room Android promoters don't want to face.
Spot on.
First of all, I don't own any Android devices and probably never will. I own two MacBook Pros, one MacPro, one Mac Mini, bought two iMacs for friends and family in the last three years, and owned an iPhone 3G, 4 and 4S. The iPhone 5 is the first iPhone since the 3G that I haven't jumped on because it offered nothing compelling over the 4S, which is part of Apple's problem right now.
The carrier line charts clearly show iOS growth at AT&T, but flat iOS growth at Verizon. Remove the holiday bumps from the Verizon chart and what do you get? You get a little iOS above Android and a little below, but overall when you average out the peaks and valleys in the iOS Verizon chart you get something very similar to the Android line. The only thing this proves is that iPhone gets a nice holiday bump while Android does not.
None of your screaming and shouting is going to change the fact that at Verizon, iOS and Android are pretty much even once you average out the peaks and valleys. At AT&T, iOS is clearly king. However, you cannot draw any overall market conclusions from these graphs as a significant portion of iOS sales occur outside of the US.
I love Apple, I even own Apple stock. I understand the need to want to write these types of articles given all of the negative news lately. I just think this article is reaching a false conclusion based largely on AT&T numbers because the Verizon numbers are not really that impressive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp
Articles slanted toward Apple really brings 'em out of the woodwork doesn't it. Where do they hide during the day?
I have no doubt that some of them are being paid by the post (as we discovered yesterday that Samsung is prone to do).
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
MetroPCS is well on it's way to be considered a major carrier and they don't offer the iPhone.
They're tiny in comparison to ATT and VZW, and in any event, after they're bought out by T-Mobile, many of their subscribers will flee to the iPhone, I'd guess. The reaction to to T-Mobile's offering of the iPhone does not seem to augur well for the other smartphones.
The only comparative data that would mean anything to those of us in the market for a phone in the US (and who have some money) would be between iPhones and the handful of high-end, large-screen Android phones we keep hearing are selling in the millions - notably Samsung's Galaxy S amd possibly the Note series, the Nexus phones and (coming up) the well-reviewed new HTC one.
Anybody got any data on that? As I am conflicted due to suffering from a case of screen size envy..... ...so I'd like to see those phones putting some pressure on Apple to feed my pixel and inches greed.
Winning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip
But in the US... thanks to subsidies... iPhones and Android phones are the same price.
Oh. Never mind!
Here (Canada) the model is slowly shifting from outright subsidy to more of a "financing" model. The big carriers still do things the old way, but the newer and/or smaller carriers "advance" a phone to you, for which you pay $X/month until it's paid off. There seems to be a limit to how much they'll float though, so more expensive phones require a lump payment up front.
In the US, besides getting a device that retails at around $100 more than the competition they also hold their value much better. This has made many an iPhone owner be able to sell their iPhone after a year or two with the ability to keep getting a newer model with cash left over. It's one of the perks the subsidy model has afforded those that want iPhones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal
In my experience over the years, folks that bought Android phones as their first smartphone immediately become disenchanted by them for numerous reasons from battery life, cheap quality, complexity, instabilities, pick one...
When they see my iPhone and see how polished it is both in terms of physical build-quality and the simplicity/smoothness of iOS they are sold. Most have abandoned Android.
Android is so overrated. It seems to cater to several demographics:
- 1st-time buyers looking for a cheap, smartphone with price being their only consideration.
- Individuals that want an open, infinitely-customizable smartphone and have way too much time on their hands. They will customize their smartphone so much, no one else will be able to figure out how to make a phone call on it.
- iHaters that want nothing to do with Apple simply because of a false-belief that Apple is more "evil" than the numerous Android handset makers like Samsung whose CEO is a convicted criminal, and Google that has cleverly masqueraded their "open and free" OS as a way to covertly gather as much information on you, the product, and sell "you" to the highest bidder.
Agree, I've even known people to get political about it claiming that Apple is more liberal. People who make such claims really don't get that all of these tech companies could care less about social politics & only care about lobbying for their own benefit.
To add one to your list, many of the android users I know who've stayed Android upgrade like crazy trying to find a phone that works better or can support the latest & greatest Android OS. In contrast (and despite claims) most of the iPhone users I know keep the same phone they have past 2-3 upgrade cycles because it works so good they can't justify upgrading. I was the same way, I went from the 3GS to the 5. I gave my 3GS to someone else & it's still working great for them. When my wife's old Palm died I had to borrow someone's older Android (like year newer than my old 3GS) to get her through to her eligibility for an upgrade. That thing was like a dinosaur next to my 3GS! Granted it was an older Android & they've supposedly come a long way but I have yet to come across an Android that doesn't look the part of a Java based phone if you know what I mean. My wife hated that phone, just absolutely hated it, but she is in love with her new iPhone (she's hard to impress, she hates her Mac most of the time).
You will need a check with the ophthalmologist as well. Verizon's "other" sales line starts above the iPhone's, then iPhone's crosses the "other" line in early 2011, then declines, the spikes in 2012, and begins a decline....difficult to draw any conclusion. Additionally "other" presumably covers all Android phones whether they are free ones or $300 ones
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Groan. More bogus data. Thanks. Very persuasive. NOT.
WHat's bogus about that data?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
It would be good to have some numbers to know what percentage of Android sales are high end phones.
All we really have is Samsung's claims based on Galaxy S "shipments" 100 million over the last three years, 10% of Schmidt's claim of a billion Android "activations", occurring later this year.
Given that Samsung is the largest Android manufacturer, it seems that around 90% of Android devices are low to mid range.
That's the elephant in the room Android promoters don't want to face.
Look at Samsung's quarterly financials, and you will see that their revenue and profits are growing MUCH faster than Apple's. I assume this is due to their mobile phone business, since the other markets they are in are fairly mature.
But you're not taking into consideration the huge spikes the iPhone has while Android doesn't. The VZW graph does support my idea about India and Apple not letting the competition get entrenched.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
What's shocking to me is how there's no "bump" with an Android new product intro -- such as the SG3 -- in either ATT or VZW's graphs. Compare that to the massive spike when a new iPhone is introduced! Shocking, because one would not get that impression reading the tech news.
It's no wonder that these weasels don't put out actual shipment volumes or sales numbers.
Btw, where are all those gazillions of Android activations every day (that Rubin used to boast about) in these numbers?!
It shouldn't really be shocking, when was the last time anyone saw people line up to buy any Android phone. The fact is that consumers aren't choosing Android phones, they're having them pushed on them by carrier salespeople because they don't understand the differences. The vocal few Android enthusiasts who haunt these forums are entirely atypical and a tiny minority.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Groan. More bogus data. Thanks. Very persuasive. NOT.
Is it any wonder that nobody releases actual data besides Apple?
Apple has nothing to hide, and people try to second guess and knock down those actual, factual figures using inaccurate estimations, random drug fueled speculation and biased, bogus figures that people are merely pulling out of their butts?
Apple is the only one telling the truth. Everybody else pleads the fifth, and nobody finds that to be suspicious at all?
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v
Oh. Never mind!
Here (Canada) the model is slowly shifting from outright subsidy to more of a "financing" model. The big carriers still do things the old way, but the newer and/or smaller carriers "advance" a phone to you, for which you pay $X/month until it's paid off. There seems to be a limit to how much they'll float though, so more expensive phones require a lump payment up front.
And this is the way T-Mobile is going as well. Be interesting to see their numbers over the next year (especially if they combine with MetroPCS).
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
It shouldn't really be shocking, when was the last time anyone saw people line up to buy any Android phone. The fact is that consumers aren't choosing Android phones, they're having them pushed on them by carrier salespeople because they don't understand the differences. The vocal few Android enthusiasts who haunt these forums are entirely atypical and a tiny minority.
There is a very large demand for the HTC One right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv
WHat's bogus about that data?
It doesn't support his weltanschauung, therefore it's bogus.
It's the time honoured methodology employed by governments and politicians faced with inconvenient truths - attack the credibility of the messenger and try at all costs not to engage the message.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
[...] The fact is that consumers aren't choosing Android phones, they're having them pushed on them by carrier salespeople because they don't understand the differences.
The "fact" is that I can introduce you to a CROWD of Android users who would disagree with you. They do SO know the difference. They either don't care or prefer one key feature, like the kiss-to-share thing or the big screen or whatever. Or, like in the case of my daughter, her feature phone broke in the middle of a carrier contract and her carrier doesn't offer the iPhone. They gave her a Galaxy 3S for next to nothing, while getting her into an iPhone would have meant buying out her contract. She really doesn't seem to care, though. As far as she's concerned, voice is voice, SMS is SMS, Maps are Maps, the games she wants are available on both platforms, and with the Galaxy she gets a bigger screen. Apparently what matters to you or me doesn't necessarily resonate with everyone else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
The vocal few Android enthusiasts who haunt these forums are entirely atypical and a tiny minority.
On that point we agree. The Android users I know did consciously choose it, some for perfectly valid reasons, some probably not, but I have no doubt that they would think debates like this are the absolutely HEIGHT of foolish geekery!