Unfortunately this means the AIRs won't get the GPU updates we have been hoping for. Apparently the more advanced chips don't come out to September. Hopefully this is all cleared up in the next few days.
[…]
Actually I think retina AIRs are still a year off. Mainly because of the GPU issues and allowable power in the platform. I suspect a process shrink is in order.
That's an interesting take i hadn't yet heard. I assumed these iGPUs will be more powerful than in the current 13" RMBP.
Over the current RMBP? It would certainly help. IGZO and other changes could further that even more.
I won't be satisfied until I can get a solid 12 hours out of my notebook with full brightness and a decent amount of processing, but as soon as that milestone is met I'll be wanting for a week long battery and then a month long battery.
I was talking about the MBA - comparing the current MBA to a hypothetical MBA with RP.
Specifically, RP requires a larger battery, we saw with the iPad and MBP. How can Apple add RP to MBA without a concomitant increase in size and weight? Perhaps putting Haswell chip in MBA offsets some of that. But is that enough to keep the current size and weight, without a decrease in battery life?
As a professor, I can say the only way to teach with computers is to either teach from the back of the classroom -where you can see all screens- or to disable Internet (the later quite difficult because nobody at our school ever thought the Internet could be an annoyance when teaching)
Sometimes I have to wonder why laptops are even in the classroom or lecture hall. I have a hard time grasping how a student could even take proper notes in a lecture hall where math or the sciences are being discussed. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't know of any note taking software that allows you to transcribe equations and drawings at a rational pace to keep up. Plus the machine is a big distraction even if you aren't on the Internet. Then again it is probably 25 years since I've sat in a lecture hall and frankly I wasn't a good student.
I can see how something like iPad is a great convenience in replacing a backpack full of books but it isn't exactly the best at reading and researching as a student would. At least not yet.
Speaking of "mini" recall that Apple completely dropped the ODD from their entry-level desktop PC before moving that to their 15" MBP, then their 13" MBP, and then their iMacs. If this was a major issue and not having an ODD in the MBAs or the iPad wasn't enough to create the rebellion then removing it from a desktop PC should have set off all the alarms if there were going to be any. I am not convinced the next Mac Pro will even have an ODD, and if it does I'd guess it will be only slot for the drive, not two.
I'm looking at the products as a whole. The ODD is just one thing that causes people to turn up their noses at the rMBP. Storage price and capacity is a second issue. Take into account other issues and the old MBPs look very attractive to many users. Sure the retina screen is nice but a user gives up a lot to get that screen.
I think the conflict lies in your use of the word "interchangeable". At a high-level, both technologies can be used to access a network. No doubt. However, to those who run networks for a living, wireless and wired connections are not "interchangeable". One requires a wire to the user's endpoint, one does not. You cannot use one in place of the other without regards to the rest of the network connectivity which you are trying to use. To use the car and truck analogy, we're really talking about high-speed trains versus single-engine airplanes. Both can be used for transportation, but the path they follow from point a to point b cannot be followed by the other.
I don't think anyone is "hating on" those that want an optical drive. The market is shifting away from it though.
I don't know about that some of the attitudes are down right hostile.
There is no doubt that some of the market is shifting away from optical drives but then again the market is shifting away from laptops. That doesn't mean the market for laptops with Ethernet ports, or optical drives or a high capacity for secondary store has died. Likewise for the less popular features of the MBPs.
The other issue here is that Apple has gain greatly from the so called post PC era. However I think that concept is a mistake. I really don't see the need for PC evaporating completely and as such it will bounce back eventually as people better understand what iOS devices can do for them and old PC and Mac hardware needs to be replaced. As it is right now the mobile devices supplement PCs for many users and have allowed them to put off upgrades. That won't last forever though. This is one reason that I want to see Apple keep its desktop and even its laptops bleeding edge, eventually there will be a bounce back and Apple could grab a significant market share with such hardware. Sure the current market is weak but Apples laptops have demonstrated staying power to a greater extent than run of the mill PC hardware. Part of that is due to excellent hardware engineering and Mac OS.
In any event people need to realize that just because they can get buy with 64 GB of storage doesn't imply that everybody can. ODD or the bay for that drive, are just one way to address the storage short fall.
I was talking about the MBA - comparing the current MBA to a hypothetical MBA with RP.
Specifically, RP requires a larger battery, we saw with the iPad and MBP. How can Apple add RP to MBA without a concomitant increase in size and weight? Perhaps putting Haswell chip in MBA offsets some of that. But is that enough to keep the current size and weight, without a decrease in battery life?
Mea culpa and good point. Let's run the numbers, shall we?
The 15' MBP went from 77.5Whr to 95Whr when it went Retina. That's a 22.58% gain in capacity.
The 13" MBP went from 63.5Whr to 74Whr when it went Retina. That's a 16.53% gain in capacity.
They're all Ivy Bridge microarchitecture, but I can't tell if the minor bumps also had any other power saving advancements. I may be able to deduce what changes they may have done with the battery life testings or real world results if I wanted to put in the effort (but I don't).
Assuming all other things equal the smaller Retina display needs a lower boost in battery size. That means that a 13" MBA would need 16% more juice to run the display for the same duration with the same setup. Can Haswell or Haswell+IGZO account for 10 Watt hours without having to under clock the system or make the battery larger?
Two other things of note:
The percentage gain dropped with the smaller display. Sure, we expected the Watt hours to be lower, but the percentage being that much lower surprised me. Do this mean the 11" MBA may only need, say, a 10% gain with all other things being equal?
The MBAs already had a high PPI than the MBPs, with the 13" MBA being 1440x900 whilst the 13" MBP being 1280x800 at 128PPI. Now I guess they might go for a full doubling there as they haven't yet deviated from that course, but I'm betting they go with the same Retina display on the 13" MBA as is on the 13" MBP with around a 220 PPI display. The 11" might be more tricky. Currently at 135 PPI would they go with 220 PPI for that do they want the UI elements to be smaller due to the much smaller display. One solution might be to use the 264 PPI display in the 9.7 iPad but that seems like overkill since that's a lot more pixels to push over being 220 PPI on that machine.
Look out you are offering up rational explanations of why certain features appeal to you. This will not go over well with the fanboys champion the recent decisions made by Apple or the rumors speculated on here.
But again the people here supporting Apple apparently don't actually work with their machines. By that I mean use the machine as a tool to earn a living. If they did they wouldn't be in such a hurry to see a homogenized line from Apple.
Thanks for summing up to us what you believe in the first sentence, and your contempt for anyone who disagrees with your opinion. Those that agree with you are "rational" and anyone who holds an alternate opinion is a "fanboy".
And of course, these people that "defend Apple" don't actually do any work on their machines, by the way. So when I say that I'm a designer and use my Macbook Air 100% of the time for making a living, I'm obviously lying, because that's impossible, and does not adhere to your worldview of what one does and does not need in a work machine. "Apparently" that work doesn't count, because the machine I use does not use some outdated technology that you in all your wisdom have deemed critically important for work to get done.
I took the time to explain why I believe it makes sense for Apple to drop the older style MBPs, using very specific and tangible reasons that have nothing to do with emotion or the vague notion of "progress". You know what the funny thing is? People like you do this all the time. You bitch and whine everytime Apple makes a decision to move forward and get rid of cruft, whether it's dropping flash, not having a physical keyboard on the iPhone, getting rid of outdated ports, integrating the battery, making software only available online, etc- and yet, in spite of this, every single time, Apple becomes more and more successful and makes more sales. What does that tell you? Is Apple, one of the most successful companies on the planet, just utterly devoid of logic and rationality when it makes these decisions, as are the people who understand these decisions? That's what you're implying, and if thats the case Apple should have failed a long time ago. Maybe, just MAYBE you're the irrational one- and if you actually observe history objectively, you would find it to be true.
You can keep pulling use case scenarios for every single piece of technology out there, but Apple is under no obligation to continue supporting all these pieces to support archaic and outdated ways of doing things. I've continually adjusted my workflow to adapt to current technologies, and every single time that adjustment was worthwhile because it made things more efficient, portable, and reliable. There's some people out these who don't have the capacity to change- and they want Apple to mirror their inability to do so. This isn't going to happen, because one of the main reasons Apple is successful is because it does have the courage, vision, and philosophy to relentlessly adapt and change. And something tells me there's a shitload of extremely intelligent people at Apple, and these decisions have a rhyme and reason to them and are not "irrational" as you so desperately want to believe. Unfortunately with you, Apple has been vindicated pretty much each and every time with major decisions it's made of this nature. And people like you choose to ignore this fact, and simply sing the same tune the next time.
Quote:
That doesn't mean the market for laptops with Ethernet ports, or optical drives or a high capacity for secondary store has died.
What a strawman argument. The market for physical keyboards hasn't completely "died" either. Do you believe Apple should manufacture a phone with a physical keyboard? Apple has never tried to fit every single possible market or niche group, so I have no idea what the point of that argument is. They make a product they believe can fulfill the needs of the majority. That's what they've always done, and pretending otherwise is pretty obtuse. You want products that contain the kitchen sink because those companies don't have the conviction or vision to make any decisions, and are too scared about losing a handful of sales in order to move things forward? That describes almost every other company in the tech industry. Hell, most laptops still have damn vga ports. I'm glad at least we have a single company out there not scared to point the way forward.
¿Que? The MBP has plenty of features the MBA don't. There is no 15" MBA and there is no 11" MBP are the most obvious. Then you have processor, RAM, ports, battery life, GPU, etc. The MBPs are simply more capable and more powerful than the MBA. Did you have the same issue with the non-Retina MBPs against the MBAs?
There is no 11" rMBP or 15" air? Really? /s
I trust you know I know that already solip. I was speaking of the 13" air vs the 13" rMBP. The base rMBP can have the same ram as an air. Ports- ok- it has an HDMI and an extra thunderbolt- wow. Battery life- the exact same. GPU- the exact same (both integrated currently). Even the storage is the exact same.
So outside of the ports , retina, and processor (let's be honest- very few people would ever use it)- what exactly is the difference. You add retina to the air- is there a price increase? If so, That'd close the gap further.
Non-retinas had an optical drive and weighed a substantial amount more. The rMBPs aren't either.
Look- I'm all for retina on everything- it's awesome. I'm just saying I would predict a merger before they add retina to the air.
One requires a wire to the user's endpoint, one does not.
This fact was ambiguous when I used the terms WiFi and Ethernet? This isn't Networking 001. I do expect readers to understand the basic differences.
To use the car and truck analogy, we're really talking about high-speed trains versus single-engine airplanes. Both can be used for transportation, but the path they follow from point a to point b cannot be followed by the other.
None of these analogies will ever ben perfect when talking about cars and trucks but I think of a high speed train as just a people mover, perhaps even a car carrier in certain places, but the cars and trucks analogy seems better to me because both can lead to the same places, not just adjacent to the same places. I can take my car or truck to Home Depot, but I can't take a train.
The reason they interchangeable is because it's all networking and it gets the user to the same place. The same machine can access the same data through the same router via an Ethernet switch port or WiFi. Many people utilize both every day without even thinking about. The same goes for Cellular and WiFi, especially on smartphones and tablets.
If you aren't using an ODD to boot your machine for general use the way one might only use Ethernet to connect to a network for general use then your point has merit and a machine without an ODD would be quite cumbersome, but I don't see a nearly continuous and absolute need for an ODD for Mac users.
Lets see the following are items that are seldom in continuous use on my machine:
the hard disk.
the USB ports.
the FireWire ports.
the connector for the external video display.
WiFi.
Ethernet.
Bluetooth.
the old card slot.
Now of the above three of those I use less than the optical drive. Of those two not at all, yet Apples new machines come with some of those ports.
Now you're not even being reasonable. :no: Do you really think that everyone said they needed and wanted Ethernet, ODD and 120 PPI display in their MBP until Apple removed it? I've been using an OptiBay drive in my MBP since it first came arrived.
So you needed a machine with an optical drive? You may have used that space for another requirement but such a configuration isn't even possible on retina MBP.
Apple made something that didn't quite fit my needs so I adapted. Something this means modifying your kit, sometimes this means changing vendors, and sometimes this means modifying your expectations. If you can't do the first two you need to do the last one and stop implying everyone that is happy with a change you don't like are mindless iSheep.
I didn't imply that in the least. What I'm struggling with is the non arguments offered up by many for a homogenized portable line up. I think this is a big mistake on Apples part. Your post here demonstrates exactly what I'm getting at. People have different needs and the retina and AIR families are simply to inflexible to meet those needs. Frankly in the case of the retina MBP I don't think dropping the ODD is Apples biggest mistake with that platform. The big mistake in my mind is zero affordable mass storage options.
Right now it is hard to see the retina MBP as anything more than a massive overpriced boondoggle. Because frankly after the early adopter rush it looks like sales have dropped like the proverbial lead balloon.
I like other points you make later in your post but comparing the highest configured 13" MBA to the base 13" MBP doesn't work. For example, you can configure the Mac mini with 8GB or even 16GB of RAM, but the base Mac Pro only comes with 6GB.
This fact was ambiguous when I used the terms WiFi and Ethernet? This isn't Networking 001. I do expect readers to understand the basic differences.
None of these analogies will ever ben perfect when talking about cars and trucks but I think of a high speed train as just a people mover, perhaps even a car carrier in certain places, but the cars and trucks analogy seems better to me because both can lead to the same places, not just adjacent to the same places. I can take my car or truck to Home Depot, but I can't take a train.
The reason they interchangeable is because it's all networking and it gets the user to the same place. The same machine can access the same data through the same router via an Ethernet switch port or WiFi. Many people utilize both every day without even thinking about. The same goes for Cellular and WiFi, especially on smartphones and tablets.
Hmmm. There definitely is no good analogy. To most people, though, the communications you're talking about eventually require a wired network connection, which messes with the interchangeable logic (to networking geeks).
I like other points you make later in your post but comparing the highest configured 13" MBA to the base 13" MBP doesn't work. For example, you can configure the Mac mini with 8GB or even 16GB of RAM, but the base Mac Pro only comes with 6GB.
True, I was just stating- for the money (by adding the ram)- they're very comparable with the base rMBP.
At the end of the day- I think everyone can agree there will be less Mac options before there are more Mac options as we get more and more portable. I think a single laptop line is the next step on that road- in 1-4 years that is.
That doesn't make any sense. I still say price over anything.
Sure it is the price and capability delivered at that price. In this regard the retina machines are terrible values. It is what you get for the price you are paying that matters.
And yeah, it does. Apple dropped a FireWire from the first-gen MacBook Pro, hell was raised, and it was brought back. If Ethernet is brought back (I don't believe it will be), well…
The problem is that they are trying to pass the retina machine off as a pro machine and that lack of an either net port pulls it out of that league. Right now customers have an option in the original MBPs. I still maintain that those original models are selling well because of what you get for the money you put out.
I suspect that's nonsense.
Oh well!
The trouble with the retina machines is that it has AIR like features at unheard of MBP prices. The AIRs have a niche to fill but it isn't the pro market. Apples realignment of pricing a few months ago and the lowering of the price on the 13" model highlights to me an issue with perceived value from the customer base.
:no: If you don't understand how someone can connect to a WAN or LAN via both WiFi an Ethernet you really shouldn't be here.
I really don't understand why people argue this at all. The technology is well understood. The company I work for has probably close to a dozen wired Ethernet networks that never connect to the outside world. That is done for security and bandwidth. This doesn't include Ethernet usage that wouldn't pass as a network in the traditional sense.
In any event WiFi isn't even comparable to Ethernet security wise or bandwidth wise. Why people argue this is beyond me.
Lets see the following are items that are seldom in continuous use on my machine:
the hard disk.
the USB ports.
the FireWire ports.
the connector for the external video display.
WiFi.
Ethernet.
Bluetooth.
the old card slot.
Now of the above three of those I use less than the optical drive. Of those two not at all, yet Apples new machines come with some of those ports.
1) They come with some but they have dropped others which you don't seem too upset about. What if you really think you need EC and the new Macs don't have it or you paid a lot of money for that EC card you want to keep using? I'm guessing that is one of the two you don't use at all. What if someone came on here complaining that Apple has messed up big time by removing it? Is there predilection warranted? There desire to want it is fine, but I don't see justification their desire should outweigh Apple's decision. What if they said that everyone they know uses EC?
2) I'd say that FW is likely a bigger issue for Mac users than the ODD. If you have a FW drive it most likely has USB 2.0, as well, but even that is slower than FW400 for large transfers. The solution is the TB-to-FW800 adapter but people complain about that. I don't think leaving that plugged into your FW cable is a big deal. I certainly have seen people get FW400-to-FW800 and FW800-to-FW400 adapters without complaining.
3) I personally don't use my video out on my MBP but I'm looking forward to having TB on my next MBP because it allows me so many options for data transfer without using the sparse number of USB ports. It's the same port as mDP so you can use it for a display, for data, or both at the same time.
4) You're comparing a port interfaces with no moving parts to a component that takes up 25% of a 13" MBP in what appears to be a claim that it's not fair. That's not a reasonable position. Even if add up the 2.5" 9.5mm HDD, EC/34 card slot, the WiFi/BT chip, and all the ports they all still take up considerably less space than the ODD. I bet they'll all use less power when all in use than the ODD spinning up.
So you needed a machine with an optical drive? You may have used that space for another requirement but such a configuration isn't even possible on retina MBP.
Need has nothing to do with it. I wanted to utilize useless space.
People have different needs and the retina and AIR families are simply to inflexible to meet those needs.
They do, but I think it's safe to say that Apple understands their consumer base better than a single user not liking that they no longer fit into Apple's ideal window. As stated, there are plenty o things I'd personally want if I was building my own Mac, but a consumer focused company doesn't depend on the individual need of a single user or small group of users.
I don't think you can prove that most Mac users need a slow, power-hungry, noisy, and questionably reliable ODD so often that it has to be in the device at all times. MBA, RMBP, Mac mini, iMac, netbooks, Ultrabooks, tablets, and even smartphones are showing that people aren't wanting that in every computer they own.
Right now it is hard to see the retina MBP as anything more than a massive overpriced boondoggle. Because frankly after the early adopter rush it looks like sales have dropped like the proverbial lead balloon.
I can't see how that amazing machine is in any way a boondoggle but if they add the ODD back to it (or rather make the old style MBP Retina) I'll see your point on this.
boon•dog•gle |?bo?on?däg?l, -?dôg?l| informal noun
- work or activity that is wasteful or pointless but gives the appearance of having value
While everyone would prefer both speed and size it seems fusion is a good enough compromise. A 256gb or even 512 gb SSD paired with a 1.5 TB drive would be very useful for many pros.
That would be a nice combo! However I'm not sure why Apple limited the Fusion partition on the SSD to 100 GB of if that is indeed a hard number. In any event 256 GB or larger would allow for all apps and a few virtual machines on the SSD.
Actually if this can be stuffed successfully into future MBPs then one would be just as well off with a boot / app drive and a data drive that many used before Apple offered up fusion technology. It is just too bad Apple can't see the wisdom in offering such a feature for the retina machines.
Hmmm. There definitely is no good analogy. To most people, though, the communications you're talking about eventually require a wired network connection, which messes with the interchangeable logic (to networking geeks).
Would you also say that 802.11g and 802.11n aren't interchangeable ways to connect to a wireless network because the 802.11 technologies themselves aren't interchangeable? "802.11g can't connect to an 802.11n network so their not interchangeable¡" That's a pretty stupid comment to make and it's just as stupid to say that Ethernet and WiFi. An 802.11n router with a built in switch can allow connections to a LAN and WAN through any of those options as well as others. This cannot be contested.
Q: How do you want to connect to your networked drive?
How is that illogical? The point is to get Point A connected to Point B. The same goes for…
Q: How do you want to get to Home Depot?
You then way the pros and cons of your needs. If you need a faster connection you may go with wired. If you want to be more remote you may go for wireless. If you need to pick up a drill bit you may go fro the car, or even the Vespa. If you need to pick up plywood you may go for the pickup truck. A car and truck are interchangeable for doing the same task but it would be foolish for someone to read that as has having interchangeable components. Why would this simply fact even be an issue?
That would be a nice combo! However I'm not sure why Apple limited the Fusion partition on the SSD to 100 GB of if that is indeed a hard number. In any event 256 GB or larger would allow for all apps and a few virtual machines on the SSD.
Actually if this can be stuffed successfully into future MBPs then one would be just as well off with a boot / app drive and a data drive that many used before Apple offered up fusion technology. It is just too bad Apple can't see the wisdom in offering such a feature for the retina machines.
If you have a current MBP, and don't need the ODD (doh!), I think you can combine this drive with an SDD and have it operate as a "true" DIY fusion drive if you follow the instructions at:
Comments
That's an interesting take i hadn't yet heard. I assumed these iGPUs will be more powerful than in the current 13" RMBP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Over the current RMBP? It would certainly help. IGZO and other changes could further that even more.
I won't be satisfied until I can get a solid 12 hours out of my notebook with full brightness and a decent amount of processing, but as soon as that milestone is met I'll be wanting for a week long battery and then a month long battery.
I was talking about the MBA - comparing the current MBA to a hypothetical MBA with RP.
Specifically, RP requires a larger battery, we saw with the iPad and MBP. How can Apple add RP to MBA without a concomitant increase in size and weight? Perhaps putting Haswell chip in MBA offsets some of that. But is that enough to keep the current size and weight, without a decrease in battery life?
Sometimes I have to wonder why laptops are even in the classroom or lecture hall. I have a hard time grasping how a student could even take proper notes in a lecture hall where math or the sciences are being discussed. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't know of any note taking software that allows you to transcribe equations and drawings at a rational pace to keep up. Plus the machine is a big distraction even if you aren't on the Internet. Then again it is probably 25 years since I've sat in a lecture hall and frankly I wasn't a good student.
I can see how something like iPad is a great convenience in replacing a backpack full of books but it isn't exactly the best at reading and researching as a student would. At least not yet.
I'm looking at the products as a whole. The ODD is just one thing that causes people to turn up their noses at the rMBP. Storage price and capacity is a second issue. Take into account other issues and the old MBPs look very attractive to many users. Sure the retina screen is nice but a user gives up a lot to get that screen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
2) The technologies are used interchangeably.
I think the conflict lies in your use of the word "interchangeable". At a high-level, both technologies can be used to access a network. No doubt. However, to those who run networks for a living, wireless and wired connections are not "interchangeable". One requires a wire to the user's endpoint, one does not. You cannot use one in place of the other without regards to the rest of the network connectivity which you are trying to use. To use the car and truck analogy, we're really talking about high-speed trains versus single-engine airplanes. Both can be used for transportation, but the path they follow from point a to point b cannot be followed by the other.
I don't know about that some of the attitudes are down right hostile.
There is no doubt that some of the market is shifting away from optical drives but then again the market is shifting away from laptops. That doesn't mean the market for laptops with Ethernet ports, or optical drives or a high capacity for secondary store has died. Likewise for the less popular features of the MBPs.
The other issue here is that Apple has gain greatly from the so called post PC era. However I think that concept is a mistake. I really don't see the need for PC evaporating completely and as such it will bounce back eventually as people better understand what iOS devices can do for them and old PC and Mac hardware needs to be replaced. As it is right now the mobile devices supplement PCs for many users and have allowed them to put off upgrades. That won't last forever though. This is one reason that I want to see Apple keep its desktop and even its laptops bleeding edge, eventually there will be a bounce back and Apple could grab a significant market share with such hardware. Sure the current market is weak but Apples laptops have demonstrated staying power to a greater extent than run of the mill PC hardware. Part of that is due to excellent hardware engineering and Mac OS.
In any event people need to realize that just because they can get buy with 64 GB of storage doesn't imply that everybody can. ODD or the bay for that drive, are just one way to address the storage short fall.
Mea culpa and good point. Let's run the numbers, shall we?
They're all Ivy Bridge microarchitecture, but I can't tell if the minor bumps also had any other power saving advancements. I may be able to deduce what changes they may have done with the battery life testings or real world results if I wanted to put in the effort (but I don't).
Assuming all other things equal the smaller Retina display needs a lower boost in battery size. That means that a 13" MBA would need 16% more juice to run the display for the same duration with the same setup. Can Haswell or Haswell+IGZO account for 10 Watt hours without having to under clock the system or make the battery larger?
Two other things of note:
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
Look out you are offering up rational explanations of why certain features appeal to you. This will not go over well with the fanboys champion the recent decisions made by Apple or the rumors speculated on here.
But again the people here supporting Apple apparently don't actually work with their machines. By that I mean use the machine as a tool to earn a living. If they did they wouldn't be in such a hurry to see a homogenized line from Apple.
Thanks for summing up to us what you believe in the first sentence, and your contempt for anyone who disagrees with your opinion. Those that agree with you are "rational" and anyone who holds an alternate opinion is a "fanboy".
And of course, these people that "defend Apple" don't actually do any work on their machines, by the way. So when I say that I'm a designer and use my Macbook Air 100% of the time for making a living, I'm obviously lying, because that's impossible, and does not adhere to your worldview of what one does and does not need in a work machine. "Apparently" that work doesn't count, because the machine I use does not use some outdated technology that you in all your wisdom have deemed critically important for work to get done.
I took the time to explain why I believe it makes sense for Apple to drop the older style MBPs, using very specific and tangible reasons that have nothing to do with emotion or the vague notion of "progress". You know what the funny thing is? People like you do this all the time. You bitch and whine everytime Apple makes a decision to move forward and get rid of cruft, whether it's dropping flash, not having a physical keyboard on the iPhone, getting rid of outdated ports, integrating the battery, making software only available online, etc- and yet, in spite of this, every single time, Apple becomes more and more successful and makes more sales. What does that tell you? Is Apple, one of the most successful companies on the planet, just utterly devoid of logic and rationality when it makes these decisions, as are the people who understand these decisions? That's what you're implying, and if thats the case Apple should have failed a long time ago. Maybe, just MAYBE you're the irrational one- and if you actually observe history objectively, you would find it to be true.
You can keep pulling use case scenarios for every single piece of technology out there, but Apple is under no obligation to continue supporting all these pieces to support archaic and outdated ways of doing things. I've continually adjusted my workflow to adapt to current technologies, and every single time that adjustment was worthwhile because it made things more efficient, portable, and reliable. There's some people out these who don't have the capacity to change- and they want Apple to mirror their inability to do so. This isn't going to happen, because one of the main reasons Apple is successful is because it does have the courage, vision, and philosophy to relentlessly adapt and change. And something tells me there's a shitload of extremely intelligent people at Apple, and these decisions have a rhyme and reason to them and are not "irrational" as you so desperately want to believe. Unfortunately with you, Apple has been vindicated pretty much each and every time with major decisions it's made of this nature. And people like you choose to ignore this fact, and simply sing the same tune the next time.
Quote:
That doesn't mean the market for laptops with Ethernet ports, or optical drives or a high capacity for secondary store has died.
What a strawman argument. The market for physical keyboards hasn't completely "died" either. Do you believe Apple should manufacture a phone with a physical keyboard? Apple has never tried to fit every single possible market or niche group, so I have no idea what the point of that argument is. They make a product they believe can fulfill the needs of the majority. That's what they've always done, and pretending otherwise is pretty obtuse. You want products that contain the kitchen sink because those companies don't have the conviction or vision to make any decisions, and are too scared about losing a handful of sales in order to move things forward? That describes almost every other company in the tech industry. Hell, most laptops still have damn vga ports. I'm glad at least we have a single company out there not scared to point the way forward.
I trust you know I know that already solip. I was speaking of the 13" air vs the 13" rMBP. The base rMBP can have the same ram as an air. Ports- ok- it has an HDMI and an extra thunderbolt- wow. Battery life- the exact same. GPU- the exact same (both integrated currently). Even the storage is the exact same.
So outside of the ports , retina, and processor (let's be honest- very few people would ever use it)- what exactly is the difference. You add retina to the air- is there a price increase? If so, That'd close the gap further.
Non-retinas had an optical drive and weighed a substantial amount more. The rMBPs aren't either.
Look- I'm all for retina on everything- it's awesome. I'm just saying I would predict a merger before they add retina to the air.
We'll see
Would you have said that in 2010 about the MacBook?
I.e.- Unless they discontinue the air.
This fact was ambiguous when I used the terms WiFi and Ethernet? This isn't Networking 001. I do expect readers to understand the basic differences.
None of these analogies will ever ben perfect when talking about cars and trucks but I think of a high speed train as just a people mover, perhaps even a car carrier in certain places, but the cars and trucks analogy seems better to me because both can lead to the same places, not just adjacent to the same places. I can take my car or truck to Home Depot, but I can't take a train.
The reason they interchangeable is because it's all networking and it gets the user to the same place. The same machine can access the same data through the same router via an Ethernet switch port or WiFi. Many people utilize both every day without even thinking about. The same goes for Cellular and WiFi, especially on smartphones and tablets.
- the hard disk.
- the USB ports.
- the FireWire ports.
- the connector for the external video display.
- WiFi.
- Ethernet.
- Bluetooth.
- the old card slot.
Now of the above three of those I use less than the optical drive. Of those two not at all, yet Apples new machines come with some of those ports. So you needed a machine with an optical drive? You may have used that space for another requirement but such a configuration isn't even possible on retina MBP.I didn't imply that in the least. What I'm struggling with is the non arguments offered up by many for a homogenized portable line up. I think this is a big mistake on Apples part. Your post here demonstrates exactly what I'm getting at. People have different needs and the retina and AIR families are simply to inflexible to meet those needs. Frankly in the case of the retina MBP I don't think dropping the ODD is Apples biggest mistake with that platform. The big mistake in my mind is zero affordable mass storage options.
Right now it is hard to see the retina MBP as anything more than a massive overpriced boondoggle. Because frankly after the early adopter rush it looks like sales have dropped like the proverbial lead balloon.
I like other points you make later in your post but comparing the highest configured 13" MBA to the base 13" MBP doesn't work. For example, you can configure the Mac mini with 8GB or even 16GB of RAM, but the base Mac Pro only comes with 6GB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
This fact was ambiguous when I used the terms WiFi and Ethernet? This isn't Networking 001. I do expect readers to understand the basic differences.
None of these analogies will ever ben perfect when talking about cars and trucks but I think of a high speed train as just a people mover, perhaps even a car carrier in certain places, but the cars and trucks analogy seems better to me because both can lead to the same places, not just adjacent to the same places. I can take my car or truck to Home Depot, but I can't take a train.
The reason they interchangeable is because it's all networking and it gets the user to the same place. The same machine can access the same data through the same router via an Ethernet switch port or WiFi. Many people utilize both every day without even thinking about. The same goes for Cellular and WiFi, especially on smartphones and tablets.
http://daringfireball.net/linked/2013/05/24/trucks-cars-and-vespas
Hmmm. There definitely is no good analogy. To most people, though, the communications you're talking about eventually require a wired network connection, which messes with the interchangeable logic (to networking geeks).
At the end of the day- I think everyone can agree there will be less Mac options before there are more Mac options as we get more and more portable. I think a single laptop line is the next step on that road- in 1-4 years that is.
Oh well!
The trouble with the retina machines is that it has AIR like features at unheard of MBP prices. The AIRs have a niche to fill but it isn't the pro market. Apples realignment of pricing a few months ago and the lowering of the price on the 13" model highlights to me an issue with perceived value from the customer base.
I really don't understand why people argue this at all. The technology is well understood. The company I work for has probably close to a dozen wired Ethernet networks that never connect to the outside world. That is done for security and bandwidth. This doesn't include Ethernet usage that wouldn't pass as a network in the traditional sense.
In any event WiFi isn't even comparable to Ethernet security wise or bandwidth wise. Why people argue this is beyond me.
1) They come with some but they have dropped others which you don't seem too upset about. What if you really think you need EC and the new Macs don't have it or you paid a lot of money for that EC card you want to keep using? I'm guessing that is one of the two you don't use at all. What if someone came on here complaining that Apple has messed up big time by removing it? Is there predilection warranted? There desire to want it is fine, but I don't see justification their desire should outweigh Apple's decision. What if they said that everyone they know uses EC?
2) I'd say that FW is likely a bigger issue for Mac users than the ODD. If you have a FW drive it most likely has USB 2.0, as well, but even that is slower than FW400 for large transfers. The solution is the TB-to-FW800 adapter but people complain about that. I don't think leaving that plugged into your FW cable is a big deal. I certainly have seen people get FW400-to-FW800 and FW800-to-FW400 adapters without complaining.
3) I personally don't use my video out on my MBP but I'm looking forward to having TB on my next MBP because it allows me so many options for data transfer without using the sparse number of USB ports. It's the same port as mDP so you can use it for a display, for data, or both at the same time.
4) You're comparing a port interfaces with no moving parts to a component that takes up 25% of a 13" MBP in what appears to be a claim that it's not fair. That's not a reasonable position. Even if add up the 2.5" 9.5mm HDD, EC/34 card slot, the WiFi/BT chip, and all the ports they all still take up considerably less space than the ODD. I bet they'll all use less power when all in use than the ODD spinning up.
Need has nothing to do with it. I wanted to utilize useless space.
They do, but I think it's safe to say that Apple understands their consumer base better than a single user not liking that they no longer fit into Apple's ideal window. As stated, there are plenty o things I'd personally want if I was building my own Mac, but a consumer focused company doesn't depend on the individual need of a single user or small group of users.
I don't think you can prove that most Mac users need a slow, power-hungry, noisy, and questionably reliable ODD so often that it has to be in the device at all times. MBA, RMBP, Mac mini, iMac, netbooks, Ultrabooks, tablets, and even smartphones are showing that people aren't wanting that in every computer they own.
I can't see how that amazing machine is in any way a boondoggle but if they add the ODD back to it (or rather make the old style MBP Retina) I'll see your point on this.
noun
- work or activity that is wasteful or pointless but gives the appearance of having value
That would be a nice combo! However I'm not sure why Apple limited the Fusion partition on the SSD to 100 GB of if that is indeed a hard number. In any event 256 GB or larger would allow for all apps and a few virtual machines on the SSD.
Actually if this can be stuffed successfully into future MBPs then one would be just as well off with a boot / app drive and a data drive that many used before Apple offered up fusion technology. It is just too bad Apple can't see the wisdom in offering such a feature for the retina machines.
Would you also say that 802.11g and 802.11n aren't interchangeable ways to connect to a wireless network because the 802.11 technologies themselves aren't interchangeable? "802.11g can't connect to an 802.11n network so their not interchangeable¡" That's a pretty stupid comment to make and it's just as stupid to say that Ethernet and WiFi. An 802.11n router with a built in switch can allow connections to a LAN and WAN through any of those options as well as others. This cannot be contested.
How is that illogical? The point is to get Point A connected to Point B. The same goes for…
You then way the pros and cons of your needs. If you need a faster connection you may go with wired. If you want to be more remote you may go for wireless. If you need to pick up a drill bit you may go fro the car, or even the Vespa. If you need to pick up plywood you may go for the pickup truck. A car and truck are interchangeable for doing the same task but it would be foolish for someone to read that as has having interchangeable components. Why would this simply fact even be an issue?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
That would be a nice combo! However I'm not sure why Apple limited the Fusion partition on the SSD to 100 GB of if that is indeed a hard number. In any event 256 GB or larger would allow for all apps and a few virtual machines on the SSD.
Actually if this can be stuffed successfully into future MBPs then one would be just as well off with a boot / app drive and a data drive that many used before Apple offered up fusion technology. It is just too bad Apple can't see the wisdom in offering such a feature for the retina machines.
If you have a current MBP, and don't need the ODD (doh!), I think you can combine this drive with an SDD and have it operate as a "true" DIY fusion drive if you follow the instructions at:
http://blog.macsales.com/17624-os-x-10-8-3-provides-fusion-drive-setup-option-for-non-fusion-drive-equipped-macs