1) Consider why the battery is larger in the MBP. The MBA isn't going to have the CPU or GPU that the MBP will have. Performance is why the MBP will still be more ideal for many over the MBA.
2) Reports show Haswell dramatically improving battery life. I'm hoping for much longer life but Apple could potentially reduce size and weight whilst keeping the battery life about the same.
I was comparing the batteries in the standard MBP v. the rMBP. 7 hrs for both but different battery sizes. Look also at the bump in size when iPad went RP. Clearly, the retina display requires more power.
Yes, Haswell should make a difference. But will it outweigh the increase in power needs of the display?
Yes, Haswell should make a difference. But will it outweigh the increase in power needs of the display?
Over the current RMBP? It would certainly help. IGZO and other changes could further that even more.
I won't be satisfied until I can get a solid 12 hours out of my notebook with full brightness and a decent amount of processing, but as soon as that milestone is met I'll be wanting for a week long battery and then a month long battery.
I guess it's because it was an aluminum unibody chassis that people believe that FW was removed from the 13" MBP, but that is not the case. They removed FW400 from the aluminum MB in 2008 and from all the ploy carbonate MBs a year later. When they made a 13" MB Pro they included FW800 which in all MBPs up until last year with the RMBPs.
WiFi is certainly not a replacement for all types of networked communication, especially in regards to security, but they are both interchangeable for all intents and purposes as they are networking technologies.
Lol. You contradicted yourself in the space of two sentences.
It is specifically with respect to security that they are not interchangeable. That and bandwidth.
I'd say the success of the MBA, the rise of the netbook, the iPad, and now Ultrabook-class notebooks is proof that people are selling less of a need to have an ODD not only on them at all times but built into their notebook at all times.
No it's not proof. For one thing, if you accept Steve's cars vs trucks analogy the iPad isn't in the same category. Neither are netbooks which were just crappy cars.
Ultra books are a specialized category of trucks and no one is suggesting the MBA needs an ODD. What some folks believe is that some "trucks" so indeed need optical drives and lots of hdd space so keeping the non-retina MBP in the line up AND up to date is very valuable to a significant segment of pro users.
I hope he's wrong but he might not be. A 15" haswell cMBP is probably the machine I want to get next for work.
Well currently my school put of purchasing Airs, instead going for pros because of the harddrive factor.... Our Macs are loaded with heaps of software. I don't know how they fill them but our old White Macbooks are almost full (160 GB)
I know heaps of people who still use Optical disk drives. Back in 1998 the Floppy Disk drive was way too small for its time. DVDs are up to 8 GB, and in very common usage.
No one has yet given me a reason why Apple need to pull the plug on this Macbook.
I don't think Apple should discontinue the cMBP... yet. Once Apple gets the rMBP price down to the price of the cMBP for the same amount of memory and storage, I think it should be discontinued. I don't think the lack of FireWire and Ethernet ports and an optical drive are a big deal when there are external options. Sure, it will inconvenience a small number of users, but probably not a lot. I really think memory, storage, and price are what is keeping the cMBP around for now.
Oh yeah, the first two 15" MBPs only had FW400. The 17" MBP had it when on sale 2 months after the original 15" MBP, and PBs had them since 2003, so I don't it was a result of people complaining. I'd think it another issue that didn't allow them to include FW800 in only the 15" MBP from Feb 2008 to October 2008.
I would think the real question is why you want to store all those photos on your laptop. If you are shooting so much at such a high res that storage is a problem then you should really be using a desktop class machine.
Actually in some cases photographers do use a desktop class machine rolled around on a cart. This can be less than ideal. If you can come up with a laptop, with the right hardware, it can make for a far better system.
As for storing all of those photos, he probably doesn't. I can't read minds here but you would certainly want the data of current clients with you if at all possible. That might mean a couple of months or a couple of years worth of data.
That was the case before Retina and before SSDs also.
It is interesting that people are demanding here that users move forward and drop their need for Ethernet and ODD but this guy wants Apple to move forward on another front and gets his post picked apart. Do you see the problem here?
A laptop is a horrible choice for keeping all your photos safe.
Agreed, but he didn't say anything about keeping them safe on the machine, his issue is capacity to do his job and run a business.
At the very least you want a backup which means you have to regularly connect your laptop to something else like another computer or a giant hard drive to back it up. And all the time your laptop is away from this thing, you aren't backed up at all.
Which is a good justification for an optical disk drive. That is if the disk can hold a days work. I wouldn't be surprised to see photographers backing up to optical disk a few times a day, in the field, for critical projects. Am alternative is to back up to something over USB such as a dongle or hard drive.
Note that these are only working backups for the days business. Archiving and storage woulda veto tak place on a separate system probably a disk array.
It would make more sense to me to dump the laptop and switch to an iPad that's connected and backed up to the cloud on a minute by minute basis.
How many cameras can you do real time control from an iPad? Frankly iPads are of limited use for many common field photography needs.
Then you won't have any storage or backup problems, your mobile gear will be much lighter and cheaper, and you can concentrate on just taking the pictures.
You storage and back up problems only get worst.
All a good photographer in the field needs is a device for taking the shots (camera), a review device (iPad), and the ability to send some of the pics off or make some colour corrections before doing so (again, the iPad is excellent for this).
Again you are looking at this from one perspective assuming your specific use case.
Alternatively, an iMac for your home, and a EyeFi card for the camera would be a better combination than your current setup also. If you have any "computing" needs in the field, an iPhone or again a cheap iPad would serve you better.
As much as I love my iPad I simply can't agree with you here. IPad isn't the solution for this issue.
I don't know a single person who has needed an optical drive in the past three years. And you can always plug one into your AirPort to share between computers.
Does that work? I've never seen that advertised as a feature. Good to know if true.
:no: You don't understand how someone can connect to a WAN or LAN via both WiFi an Ethernet you really shouldn't be here.
No. You don't accept that wireless is not an option in some cases and therefore the two are not interchangeable. In fact there are companies that rip out the wireless from MBPs and other laptops as a business.
Not sure if it helps your situation, but 1.5TB 2.5" drives have hit the streets (5400 RPM, though)
While everyone would prefer both speed and size it seems fusion is a good enough compromise. A 256gb or even 512 gb SSD paired with a 1.5 TB drive would be very useful for many pros.
I thought the big advantage Haswell brought to the table in addition to just being faster was tremendous power savings over Ivy. Something like 30 to 50% better battery life if memory serves. Since Apple stresses battery life in marketing I am surprised they wouldn't move everything to Haswell as soon as is practicable.
The funny thing here is that battery savings comes from when Haswell isn't being used. If some of the reviews are correct under load Haswell is just as power hungry and hot as the current offerings. In a way that only makes sense because there is no process shrink and some subsections are higher performing. Under light load Haswell should do much better.
The thing with Intel is that you have to read the fine print very carefully. People don't like to hear this but often AMDs APUs perform better power wise and performance wise under load. A far better GPU goes a long way to making this possible. In any event realize that the power ratings on the Haswell chips have changed significantly over previous models.
Not sure if it helps your situation, but 1.5TB 2.5" drives have hit the streets (5400 RPM, though)
If you remove the ODD you can double the up the storage. 2TB at 7200RPM or 3TB at 5400RPM. I'd personally go with 2x1.5TB drives if I thought I'd be using more than 1TB because as you fill up the drive it performs slower as the inside of the platers are slower than the outside.
Does that work? I've never seen that advertised as a feature. Good to know if true.
Oh dear, seems it doesn't. I was thinking of Remote Disc, sure, but apparently it doesn't work without a computer…
This happens a lot with me; I misremember a feature as something else that turns out to be a lot better than what is actually implemented. If only I could implement them. Or remember them long enough to do so…
If you remove the ODD you can double the up the storage. 2TB at 7200RPM or 3TB at 5400RPM. I'd personally go with 2x1.5TB drives if I thought I'd be using more than 1TB because as you fill up the drive it performs slower as the inside of the platers are slower than the outside.
Which you don't have the option of doing in a rMBP...
No. You don't accept that wireless is not an option in some cases and therefore the two are not interchangeable. In fact there are companies that rip out the wireless from MBPs and other laptops as a business.
Stop being a dick.
1) Yeah, I never said that wireless was't ever an option. In fact I said I use an Ethernet connection to get a faster connection with my iMac, but you'd have to have actually read what I wrote before commenting.
2) The technologies are used interchangeably. This is undeniable by you have attempted to do so. I also stated they clearly had pros and cons. You claimed otherwise. You might to revisit that cars and truck analogy that you seem so fond of. Cars are trucks can be used for the same purpose (i.e.: interchangeably) but no where does that mean that each, even with classifications of just cars or just trucks, all have the exact same advantages and disadvantages.
Now, do you want to add to the conversation or act pissy again that I called out your stupidity. Either way, I'd appreciate if think a little more before you respond.
Unfortunately this means the AIRs won't get the GPU updates we have been hoping for. Apparently the more advanced chips don't come out to September. Hopefully this is all cleared up in the next few days.
The MBA is the product going into constraint which is SOP for Apple ahead of a major refresh. MBP's still have plenty of availability which is again SOP ahead of minor spec updates. Further, WWDC is typically more focused on iOS so Apple isn't going to announce anything to take the spotlight away from what will likely be a major overhaul of iOS for version 7. Lastly, time on sale and Apple's product refresh schedule for laptops put the MBA as due for an overhaul and the MBP due for a spec bump. It's been this way and totally predictable for YEARS.
Well not exactly. Focus tends to wander a bit. Further the media often concentrates on iOS even when Mac OS is going through its own revisions.
What is most likely is that the rMBP's get spec bumps, the MBA's get overhauled and the non retina MBPs get dropped with a single non retina MBA as the new low end entry model.
Actually I think retina AIRs are still a year off. Mainly because of the GPU issues and allowable power in the platform. I suspect a process shrink is in order.
Which you don't have the option of doing in a rMBP...
****, Dude, learn to follow the conversion because I won't relent just because you're thick. He responded to wizard69's comment which also mentioned "Being that I have to carry around an external for my old MBP I know the feeling well." :no:
You are assuming things from most likely your personal perspective. For one thing the camera or back may require a computer to connect too.
Actually in some cases photographers do use a desktop class machine rolled around on a cart. This can be less than ideal. If you can come up with a laptop, with the right hardware, it can make for a far better system.
As for storing all of those photos, he probably doesn't. I can't read minds here but you would certainly want the data of current clients with you if at all possible. That might mean a couple of months or a couple of years worth of data.
It is interesting that people are demanding here that users move forward and drop their need for Ethernet and ODD but this guy wants Apple to move forward on another front and gets his post picked apart. Do you see the problem here?
Agreed, but he didn't say anything about keeping them safe on the machine, his issue is capacity to do his job and run a business.
Which is a good justification for an optical disk drive. That is if the disk can hold a days work. I wouldn't be surprised to see photographers backing up to optical disk a few times a day, in the field, for critical projects. Am alternative is to back up to something over USB such as a dongle or hard drive.
Note that these are only working backups for the days business. Archiving and storage woulda veto tak place on a separate system probably a disk array.
How many cameras can you do real time control from an iPad? Frankly iPads are of limited use for many common field photography needs.
You storage and back up problems only get worst.
Again you are looking at this from one perspective assuming your specific use case.
As much as I love my iPad I simply can't agree with you here. IPad isn't the solution for this issue.
Well yeah, but you're the crusty old naysayer who is against anything new, so I'm not going to pay much attention to your point of view.
You're constantly telling everyone that the iPad is crap and that you can't do anything with it as far as I recall.
The guy I was responding to is obviously one of those picky types that thinks his little system that he's worked out is the best and clearly (like you) isn't really open to a new way of working, which is why I didn't respond to his last post. He basically wan't a desktop class machine, that's portable, that also works for work and personal, and nothing short of that will do for him. There isn't much to say once you realise that. His description of his needs is a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy.
I was trying to point out that he would do better with a desktop class machine at home and a different, lighter, mobile setup, but he isn't open to new ways of working so I respected that. I know a few photographers myself, and I know that even some of the high end fashion photogs nowadays use pretty much the exact setup I was putting forward as a suggestion, so I thought it was worth explaining it, in case the fellow hadn't heard about it. You, on the other hand, are just being crotchety and contrary as usual.
I could point out how wrong you are about optical discs being "good storage" and a bunch of other stuff but I know from your posts here over the years that you aren't really interested either in debate or even "the facts" for that matter. In fact, you seem so thoroughly uninterested in anything new or different that I fail to understand why you like Macs at all, or why you haunt this forum. You come across as a deeply conservative, and extremely negative individual which is the opposite of the type that usually gravitates towards Macs.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
1) Consider why the battery is larger in the MBP. The MBA isn't going to have the CPU or GPU that the MBP will have. Performance is why the MBP will still be more ideal for many over the MBA.
2) Reports show Haswell dramatically improving battery life. I'm hoping for much longer life but Apple could potentially reduce size and weight whilst keeping the battery life about the same.
I was comparing the batteries in the standard MBP v. the rMBP. 7 hrs for both but different battery sizes. Look also at the bump in size when iPad went RP. Clearly, the retina display requires more power.
Yes, Haswell should make a difference. But will it outweigh the increase in power needs of the display?
Over the current RMBP? It would certainly help. IGZO and other changes could further that even more.
I won't be satisfied until I can get a solid 12 hours out of my notebook with full brightness and a decent amount of processing, but as soon as that milestone is met I'll be wanting for a week long battery and then a month long battery.
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I guess it's because it was an aluminum unibody chassis that people believe that FW was removed from the 13" MBP, but that is not the case. They removed FW400 from the aluminum MB in 2008 and from all the ploy carbonate MBs a year later. When they made a 13" MB Pro they included FW800 which in all MBPs up until last year with the RMBPs.
I mean the one in 2006.
Lol. You contradicted yourself in the space of two sentences.
It is specifically with respect to security that they are not interchangeable. That and bandwidth.
No it's not proof. For one thing, if you accept Steve's cars vs trucks analogy the iPad isn't in the same category. Neither are netbooks which were just crappy cars.
Ultra books are a specialized category of trucks and no one is suggesting the MBA needs an ODD. What some folks believe is that some "trucks" so indeed need optical drives and lots of hdd space so keeping the non-retina MBP in the line up AND up to date is very valuable to a significant segment of pro users.
I hope he's wrong but he might not be. A 15" haswell cMBP is probably the machine I want to get next for work.
I don't think Apple should discontinue the cMBP... yet. Once Apple gets the rMBP price down to the price of the cMBP for the same amount of memory and storage, I think it should be discontinued. I don't think the lack of FireWire and Ethernet ports and an optical drive are a big deal when there are external options. Sure, it will inconvenience a small number of users, but probably not a lot. I really think memory, storage, and price are what is keeping the cMBP around for now.
Oh yeah, the first two 15" MBPs only had FW400. The 17" MBP had it when on sale 2 months after the original 15" MBP, and PBs had them since 2003, so I don't it was a result of people complaining. I'd think it another issue that didn't allow them to include FW800 in only the 15" MBP from Feb 2008 to October 2008.
Actually in some cases photographers do use a desktop class machine rolled around on a cart. This can be less than ideal. If you can come up with a laptop, with the right hardware, it can make for a far better system.
As for storing all of those photos, he probably doesn't. I can't read minds here but you would certainly want the data of current clients with you if at all possible. That might mean a couple of months or a couple of years worth of data. It is interesting that people are demanding here that users move forward and drop their need for Ethernet and ODD but this guy wants Apple to move forward on another front and gets his post picked apart. Do you see the problem here? Agreed, but he didn't say anything about keeping them safe on the machine, his issue is capacity to do his job and run a business. Which is a good justification for an optical disk drive. That is if the disk can hold a days work. I wouldn't be surprised to see photographers backing up to optical disk a few times a day, in the field, for critical projects. Am alternative is to back up to something over USB such as a dongle or hard drive.
Note that these are only working backups for the days business. Archiving and storage woulda veto tak place on a separate system probably a disk array. How many cameras can you do real time control from an iPad? Frankly iPads are of limited use for many common field photography needs. You storage and back up problems only get worst. Again you are looking at this from one perspective assuming your specific use case.
As much as I love my iPad I simply can't agree with you here. IPad isn't the solution for this issue.
:no: If you don't understand how someone can connect to a WAN or LAN via both WiFi an Ethernet you really shouldn't be here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I don't know a single person who has needed an optical drive in the past three years. And you can always plug one into your AirPort to share between computers.
Does that work? I've never seen that advertised as a feature. Good to know if true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
The problem is, for me anyway, a good solution that goes beyond 1TB.
Not sure if it helps your situation, but 1.5TB 2.5" drives have hit the streets (5400 RPM, though)
No. You don't accept that wireless is not an option in some cases and therefore the two are not interchangeable. In fact there are companies that rip out the wireless from MBPs and other laptops as a business.
Stop being a dick.
While everyone would prefer both speed and size it seems fusion is a good enough compromise. A 256gb or even 512 gb SSD paired with a 1.5 TB drive would be very useful for many pros.
The funny thing here is that battery savings comes from when Haswell isn't being used. If some of the reviews are correct under load Haswell is just as power hungry and hot as the current offerings. In a way that only makes sense because there is no process shrink and some subsections are higher performing. Under light load Haswell should do much better.
The thing with Intel is that you have to read the fine print very carefully. People don't like to hear this but often AMDs APUs perform better power wise and performance wise under load. A far better GPU goes a long way to making this possible. In any event realize that the power ratings on the Haswell chips have changed significantly over previous models.
If you remove the ODD you can double the up the storage. 2TB at 7200RPM or 3TB at 5400RPM. I'd personally go with 2x1.5TB drives if I thought I'd be using more than 1TB because as you fill up the drive it performs slower as the inside of the platers are slower than the outside.
Originally Posted by Crowley
Does that work? I've never seen that advertised as a feature. Good to know if true.
Oh dear, seems it doesn't. I was thinking of Remote Disc, sure, but apparently it doesn't work without a computer…
This happens a lot with me; I misremember a feature as something else that turns out to be a lot better than what is actually implemented. If only I could implement them.
Which you don't have the option of doing in a rMBP...
1) Yeah, I never said that wireless was't ever an option. In fact I said I use an Ethernet connection to get a faster connection with my iMac, but you'd have to have actually read what I wrote before commenting.
2) The technologies are used interchangeably. This is undeniable by you have attempted to do so. I also stated they clearly had pros and cons. You claimed otherwise. You might to revisit that cars and truck analogy that you seem so fond of. Cars are trucks can be used for the same purpose (i.e.: interchangeably) but no where does that mean that each, even with classifications of just cars or just trucks, all have the exact same advantages and disadvantages.
Now, do you want to add to the conversation or act pissy again that I called out your stupidity. Either way, I'd appreciate if think a little more before you respond.
Well not exactly. Focus tends to wander a bit. Further the media often concentrates on iOS even when Mac OS is going through its own revisions. Actually I think retina AIRs are still a year off. Mainly because of the GPU issues and allowable power in the platform. I suspect a process shrink is in order.
****, Dude, learn to follow the conversion because I won't relent just because you're thick. He responded to wizard69's comment which also mentioned "Being that I have to carry around an external for my old MBP I know the feeling well." :no:
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
You are assuming things from most likely your personal perspective. For one thing the camera or back may require a computer to connect too.
Actually in some cases photographers do use a desktop class machine rolled around on a cart. This can be less than ideal. If you can come up with a laptop, with the right hardware, it can make for a far better system.
As for storing all of those photos, he probably doesn't. I can't read minds here but you would certainly want the data of current clients with you if at all possible. That might mean a couple of months or a couple of years worth of data.
It is interesting that people are demanding here that users move forward and drop their need for Ethernet and ODD but this guy wants Apple to move forward on another front and gets his post picked apart. Do you see the problem here?
Agreed, but he didn't say anything about keeping them safe on the machine, his issue is capacity to do his job and run a business.
Which is a good justification for an optical disk drive. That is if the disk can hold a days work. I wouldn't be surprised to see photographers backing up to optical disk a few times a day, in the field, for critical projects. Am alternative is to back up to something over USB such as a dongle or hard drive.
Note that these are only working backups for the days business. Archiving and storage woulda veto tak place on a separate system probably a disk array.
How many cameras can you do real time control from an iPad? Frankly iPads are of limited use for many common field photography needs.
You storage and back up problems only get worst.
Again you are looking at this from one perspective assuming your specific use case.
As much as I love my iPad I simply can't agree with you here. IPad isn't the solution for this issue.
Well yeah, but you're the crusty old naysayer who is against anything new, so I'm not going to pay much attention to your point of view.
You're constantly telling everyone that the iPad is crap and that you can't do anything with it as far as I recall.
The guy I was responding to is obviously one of those picky types that thinks his little system that he's worked out is the best and clearly (like you) isn't really open to a new way of working, which is why I didn't respond to his last post. He basically wan't a desktop class machine, that's portable, that also works for work and personal, and nothing short of that will do for him. There isn't much to say once you realise that. His description of his needs is a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy.
I was trying to point out that he would do better with a desktop class machine at home and a different, lighter, mobile setup, but he isn't open to new ways of working so I respected that. I know a few photographers myself, and I know that even some of the high end fashion photogs nowadays use pretty much the exact setup I was putting forward as a suggestion, so I thought it was worth explaining it, in case the fellow hadn't heard about it. You, on the other hand, are just being crotchety and contrary as usual.
I could point out how wrong you are about optical discs being "good storage" and a bunch of other stuff but I know from your posts here over the years that you aren't really interested either in debate or even "the facts" for that matter. In fact, you seem so thoroughly uninterested in anything new or different that I fail to understand why you like Macs at all, or why you haunt this forum. You come across as a deeply conservative, and extremely negative individual which is the opposite of the type that usually gravitates towards Macs.