It is due to the fact that I find the obsession with hardware specs really funny. Perhaps you've heard of this thing called humor? Do they have that on Planet Fandroid, or is everyone there just bitter about Apple all the time?
You came to that conclusion after I posted relevant specifications of a device in order to allow for an easy assessment of the device's performance and value?
Perhaps I should have just said the device has great performance and value without listing the specifications. Would that of been to your liking?
I'm a technology enthusiast, not a blind fanboy. I've done nothing to earn such an attitude from the likes of you.
iOS has never used an iSight camera. The latest 16 GB iPod Touch has a front side FaceTime camera.
The 16 GB does not and I never said it did. Check out the product page for the iPod touch and note the 32GB and 64 GB versions: http://www.apple.com/ipod-touch/specs.html ;
It says right there 5MP iSight camera (along with a FaceTime HD camera). I cared to check the product page to make sure before I posted. Perhaps you could get into that habit before you go about spewing nonsense?
On a side note. For $199 the Basic Bear offers a lot of value. Not to mention the fact it outperforms the iPhone 5.
Snapdragon 600 @1.7GHz (complete OpenGL ES 3.0 support)
2GB RAM
4inch 1136x640 IPS display
Android 4.2 Jelly Bean (stock)
HSPA+ 42
16GB internal storage
etc.
These are some things a spec-head really cares about, unfortunately, Specs are just numbers & real world speed & usage are very different.
I love the numbers as much as the next guy, however, I own in iPhone 5 & the Samsung galaxy S4, I9505 4G.
In real world usage, the iPhone runs rings around the S4, just in terms of snappiness within the OS, opening applications, stability in the OS & general reliability.
features & usage is a personal thing, So saying a phone 'outperforms' another, what & where do you mean, on paper? it probably does, real world, not a chance, I have them next to each other, it could just be touchwiz screwing the S4, even so this is the "Fastest phone in the world" according to Cnet & such, So far, really not convinced.
interesting note, i have iOS 7 beta 2 on a 5th gen iPod touch, its just as stable as android 4.2.2 (on a few of my android devices) my iPod touch & android devices crash, daily, one of the 3 systems here is in beta...
These are some things a spec-head really cares about, unfortunately, Specs are just numbers & real world speed & usage are very different.
I love the numbers as much as the next guy, however, I own in iPhone 5 & the Samsung galaxy S4, I9505 4G.
In real world usage, the iPhone runs rings around the S4, just in terms of snappiness within the OS, opening applications, stability in the OS & general reliability.
features & usage is a personal thing, So saying a phone 'outperforms' another, what & where do you mean, on paper? it probably does, real world, not a chance, I have them next to each other, it could just be touchwiz screwing the S4, even so this is the "Fastest phone in the world" according to Cnet & such, So far, really not convinced.
interesting note, i have iOS 7 beta 2 on a 5th gen iPod touch, its just as stable as android 4.2.2 (on a few of my android devices) my iPod touch & android devices crash, daily, one of the 3 systems here is in beta...
Outperforms on paper and more than likely in just about every real life application (excluding situations in which LTE would give the iPhone 5 a data connection advantage).
I wouldn't recommend the S4 due to the fact I hate Samsung's skin on top of Android. Despite hype and sales, I've never been too impressed with Samsung's devices, touchwiz is just that bad. For that matter, why do you own one? You clearly dislike the device.
The Google version of both the S4 and One give a much better representation of the device's hardware. Even in the benchmarks, both devices saw an increase in performance using vanilla.
There is also the consideration that the Basic Bear is running stock Android 4.2 with the same Snapdragon 600 SoC found inside the HTC One, at the same resolution as the iPhone 5. The S4 and One are running at 1920x1080.
Future applications utilizing GLES 3.0 will also run on S600 hardware, meanwhile only partial features "might" run on the A6 hardware.
The current claim of "the fastest phone in the world" would refer to the Galaxy S4 LTE-Advanced model, with Snapdragon 800 and LTE-Advanced without a doubt it raised the bar a good margin.
touchwiz is just that bad. For that matter, why do you own one? You clearly dislike the device.
I don't hate android, I wanted a new 'Premium' smart phone, It was either the S4 or the HTC One, At the time google didn't announce the google editions of the phones.
I went S4 because HTC have a horrible OS update track record, At first touchwiz didn't seem that bad, The dislike isn't from bias, its because the device is unbelievably overrated, It has the specs, it really does, it doesn't have the performance, which is why I mentions the numbers themselves don't actually paint the full picture.
I'm a tech guy, i own or use devices of all types, no other devices have the fit & polish that apples do, Hardware & Software combined, the gap is massive too, for people that don't prioritize, quality & reliability, I can see how they would think specs & 'Features' could be more important to them.
If apple do bring out a cheaper iPhone, i don't have a problem with it, when do they bring out crappy cheap devices?, even the iPod shuffle feels decent & works well.
interesting note, i have iOS 7 beta 2 on a 5th gen iPod touch, its just as stable as android 4.2.2 (on a few of my android devices) my iPod touch & android devices crash, daily, one of the 3 systems here is in beta...
I've owned my iPad 2 for almost two years and my Galaxy Nexus for close to the same. Each has been continuously on the latest (non beta) version; neither is jailbroken. In all that time, each device has crashed once. What are you doing to that thing?
I've owned my iPad 2 for almost two years and my Galaxy Nexus for close to the same. Each has been continuously on the latest (non beta) version; neither is jailbroken. In all that time, each device has crashed once. What are you doing to that thing?
I have a nexus 7 too, it crashes daily too, statistically speaking id ask 'what are you doing to yours for it not to crash?' that's the question, i think its more unusual to have it running stable, no joke.
when i say crash, i mean app crashes & sometimes the entire OS which reboots the system, My usage is pretty light, on my S4 its some texting, light browsing, sometimes running apps, I'm at work during the day so its not like i can just play on my phone, nexus 7 is much worse, its been wiped to factory settings several times, the wind changes directing & its rebooting, I've seen the same damn thing on my friends android devices & they always play it down like its a rare & unusual thing, what are the odds that they only crash while I'm around?... I think its one of those things that doesn't bother a lot of people or people don't notice, No doubt its happening tho.
I have a nexus 7 too, it crashes daily too, statistically speaking id ask 'what are you doing to yours for it not to crash?' that's the question, i think its more unusual to have it running stable, no joke.
when i say crash, i mean app crashes & sometimes the entire OS which reboots the system, My usage is pretty light, on my S4 its some texting, light browsing, sometimes running apps, I'm at work during the day so its not like i can just play on my phone, nexus 7 is much worse, its been wiped to factory settings several times, the wind changes directing & its rebooting, I've seen the same damn thing on my friends android devices & they always play it down like its a rare & unusual thing, what are the odds that they only crash while I'm around?... I think its one of those things that doesn't bother a lot of people or people don't notice, No doubt its happening tho.
You should not count app crashes when commenting on stability of any OS, unless it is a system app or if the same app behaves differently on someone else's device with a different version of the OS (even then ...). Otherwise, it is like telling someone you crash into fire hydrants all the time when asked how well your car drives.
My Nexus 7 rarely crashes. Same is true of my iPads and iPad Mini. All 3 are used extensively (including personal and development uses).
I have a nexus 7 too, it crashes daily too, statistically speaking id ask 'what are you doing to yours for it not to crash?' that's the question, i think its more unusual to have it running stable, no joke.
when i say crash, i mean app crashes & sometimes the entire OS which reboots the system, My usage is pretty light, on my S4 its some texting, light browsing, sometimes running apps, I'm at work during the day so its not like i can just play on my phone, nexus 7 is much worse, its been wiped to factory settings several times, the wind changes directing & its rebooting, I've seen the same damn thing on my friends android devices & they always play it down like its a rare & unusual thing, what are the odds that they only crash while I'm around?... I think its one of those things that doesn't bother a lot of people or people don't notice, No doubt its happening tho.
I don't use many apps (just Chrome, Moon Reader, Economist, and a couple games for my kids).
You mention that you're using an S4. Presumably that's with TouchWiz and Samsung's other addons. I'm using a Galaxy Nexus, so even though it's a Samsung device the software is pure Google. Maybe it's Samsung's extras that are causing your crashes, or one of your apps? Or maybe you just have a bad unit? My wife had to replace her iPhone 5 due to faulty memory that would produce glitches whenever she was using a lot of RAM. It happens.
I've never used a Nexus 7, so I have no input there.
You mention that you're using an S4. Presumably that's with TouchWiz and Samsung's other addons. I'm using a Galaxy Nexus, so even though it's a Samsung device the software is pure Google. Maybe it's Samsung's extras that are causing your crashes, or one of your apps? Or maybe you just have a bad unit? My wife had to replace her iPhone 5 due to faulty memory that would produce glitches whenever she was using a lot of RAM. It happens.
For sure, TouchWiz could be the cause, I know that some devices are faulty, at work I'm dealing with smartphones, we support them, politicians use them, the other S4s seem exactly the same as mine, i'm probably just a little spoiled
I don't see the cheap iPhone is possible. Here is why:
1. Profit Margin Impact: if cheap iPhone is released with all basic functions of iPhone 5 or new iPhone (5s?), a lot of people will get it since it's free (must be) with carrier subsidy. $100-$200 profit loss for every potential iPhone 5/5s customer unless Apple can sell 2-4 times more cheap iPhones to make up for the loss of every potential iPhone 5/5s customer. Why put the stress on yourself to make the same profit?
2. Price: because iPhone 5 price will be slashed by $100 to $99 subsidized or $550 un-subsidized at the new iPhone release this year, cheap iPhone must be free with subsidy or $399-$450 with no subsidy. What will Apple going to do with this cheap iPhone in next year refresh when iPhone 5 is free? Discontinue it? No way, it's only 1 year old. Price it -$100 subsidized or $250-$299 unsubsidized? Doubt it because Apple will end up with 4 tiers of iPhones: 6 (assumed), 5s, 5 and cheapo. Also, at $250-$299 un-subsidized, who wants an iPod Touch anymore? Apple is not that stupid.
3. Build of Material (BOM): Even if Apple will cut here and there to make it cheaper to build, the most they can reduce in BOM is $50 compared to iPhone 4s. I don't see the benefit of saving $50 in BOM but causing a huge risk in profit margin impact from potential new iPhone customer. New customers will be more likely to get 5 or 5s instead of 2-year old 4s, but will if the cheap iPhone is at lower tier, that's different story.
I don't see the cheap iPhone is possible. Here is why:
1. Profit Margin Impact: if cheap iPhone is released with all basic functions of iPhone 5 or new iPhone (5s?), a lot of people will get it since it's free (must be) with carrier subsidy. $100-$200 profit loss for every potential iPhone 5/5s customer unless Apple can sell 2-4 times more cheap iPhones to make up for the loss of every potential iPhone 5/5s customer. Why put the stress on yourself to make the same profit?
2. Price: because iPhone 5 price will be slashed by $100 to $99 subsidized or $550 un-subsidized at the new iPhone release this year, cheap iPhone must be free with subsidy or $399-$450 with no subsidy. What will Apple going to do with this cheap iPhone in next year refresh when iPhone 5 is free? Discontinue it? No way, it's only 1 year old. Price it -$100 subsidized or $250-$299 unsubsidized? Doubt it because Apple will end up with 4 tiers of iPhones: 6 (assumed), 5s, 5 and cheapo. Also, at $250-$299 un-subsidized, who wants an iPod Touch anymore? Apple is not that stupid.
3. Build of Material (BOM): Even if Apple will cut here and there to make it cheaper to build, the most they can reduce in BOM is $50 compared to iPhone 4s. I don't see the benefit of saving $50 in BOM but causing a huge risk in profit margin impact from potential new iPhone customer. New customers will be more likely to get 5 or 5s instead of 2-year old 4s, but will if the cheap iPhone is at lower tier, that's different story.
All good points.
One thing I will say is the cost of components in general has fallen and this year is probably the first where a cheaper iPhone could ever work.
Today Apple can use older components that are more than powerful enough for the average user.
We see how they did that with the iPad Mini using iPad 2 components but still being fast and compatible with the latest iOS. There is no lack of performance for most users even though it uses 2-3 year old tech.
If an iPhone were based on iPad Mini tech let's figure an iPad mini with LTE cost $459.
Apple could offer a low end 8GB model of the cheaper iPhone as a gateway with only one color option for $349 or $399, then a 16GB model with a range of colors for $100 more.
Most people would buy the color version which would have higher margins than the iPad Mini and make an affordable iPhone profitable for the company. Combine that with the greater sales such a device could have globally and you'll see the risk would be worth the return.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
It is due to the fact that I find the obsession with hardware specs really funny. Perhaps you've heard of this thing called humor? Do they have that on Planet Fandroid, or is everyone there just bitter about Apple all the time?
You came to that conclusion after I posted relevant specifications of a device in order to allow for an easy assessment of the device's performance and value?
Perhaps I should have just said the device has great performance and value without listing the specifications. Would that of been to your liking?
I'm a technology enthusiast, not a blind fanboy. I've done nothing to earn such an attitude from the likes of you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beardbuster
iOS has never used an iSight camera. The latest 16 GB iPod Touch has a front side FaceTime camera.
The 16 GB does not and I never said it did. Check out the product page for the iPod touch and note the 32GB and 64 GB versions: http://www.apple.com/ipod-touch/specs.html ;
It says right there 5MP iSight camera (along with a FaceTime HD camera). I cared to check the product page to make sure before I posted. Perhaps you could get into that habit before you go about spewing nonsense?
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsiderUser99
On a side note. For $199 the Basic Bear offers a lot of value. Not to mention the fact it outperforms the iPhone 5.
Snapdragon 600 @1.7GHz (complete OpenGL ES 3.0 support)
2GB RAM
4inch 1136x640 IPS display
Android 4.2 Jelly Bean (stock)
HSPA+ 42
16GB internal storage
etc.
These are some things a spec-head really cares about, unfortunately, Specs are just numbers & real world speed & usage are very different.
I love the numbers as much as the next guy, however, I own in iPhone 5 & the Samsung galaxy S4, I9505 4G.
In real world usage, the iPhone runs rings around the S4, just in terms of snappiness within the OS, opening applications, stability in the OS & general reliability.
features & usage is a personal thing, So saying a phone 'outperforms' another, what & where do you mean, on paper? it probably does, real world, not a chance, I have them next to each other, it could just be touchwiz screwing the S4, even so this is the "Fastest phone in the world" according to Cnet & such, So far, really not convinced.
interesting note, i have iOS 7 beta 2 on a 5th gen iPod touch, its just as stable as android 4.2.2 (on a few of my android devices) my iPod touch & android devices crash, daily, one of the 3 systems here is in beta...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman
These are some things a spec-head really cares about, unfortunately, Specs are just numbers & real world speed & usage are very different.
I love the numbers as much as the next guy, however, I own in iPhone 5 & the Samsung galaxy S4, I9505 4G.
In real world usage, the iPhone runs rings around the S4, just in terms of snappiness within the OS, opening applications, stability in the OS & general reliability.
features & usage is a personal thing, So saying a phone 'outperforms' another, what & where do you mean, on paper? it probably does, real world, not a chance, I have them next to each other, it could just be touchwiz screwing the S4, even so this is the "Fastest phone in the world" according to Cnet & such, So far, really not convinced.
interesting note, i have iOS 7 beta 2 on a 5th gen iPod touch, its just as stable as android 4.2.2 (on a few of my android devices) my iPod touch & android devices crash, daily, one of the 3 systems here is in beta...
Outperforms on paper and more than likely in just about every real life application (excluding situations in which LTE would give the iPhone 5 a data connection advantage).
I wouldn't recommend the S4 due to the fact I hate Samsung's skin on top of Android. Despite hype and sales, I've never been too impressed with Samsung's devices, touchwiz is just that bad. For that matter, why do you own one? You clearly dislike the device.
The Google version of both the S4 and One give a much better representation of the device's hardware. Even in the benchmarks, both devices saw an increase in performance using vanilla.
There is also the consideration that the Basic Bear is running stock Android 4.2 with the same Snapdragon 600 SoC found inside the HTC One, at the same resolution as the iPhone 5. The S4 and One are running at 1920x1080.
Future applications utilizing GLES 3.0 will also run on S600 hardware, meanwhile only partial features "might" run on the A6 hardware.
The current claim of "the fastest phone in the world" would refer to the Galaxy S4 LTE-Advanced model, with Snapdragon 800 and LTE-Advanced without a doubt it raised the bar a good margin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsiderUser99
touchwiz is just that bad. For that matter, why do you own one? You clearly dislike the device.
I don't hate android, I wanted a new 'Premium' smart phone, It was either the S4 or the HTC One, At the time google didn't announce the google editions of the phones.
I went S4 because HTC have a horrible OS update track record, At first touchwiz didn't seem that bad, The dislike isn't from bias, its because the device is unbelievably overrated, It has the specs, it really does, it doesn't have the performance, which is why I mentions the numbers themselves don't actually paint the full picture.
I'm a tech guy, i own or use devices of all types, no other devices have the fit & polish that apples do, Hardware & Software combined, the gap is massive too, for people that don't prioritize, quality & reliability, I can see how they would think specs & 'Features' could be more important to them.
If apple do bring out a cheaper iPhone, i don't have a problem with it, when do they bring out crappy cheap devices?, even the iPod shuffle feels decent & works well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman
interesting note, i have iOS 7 beta 2 on a 5th gen iPod touch, its just as stable as android 4.2.2 (on a few of my android devices) my iPod touch & android devices crash, daily, one of the 3 systems here is in beta...
I've owned my iPad 2 for almost two years and my Galaxy Nexus for close to the same. Each has been continuously on the latest (non beta) version; neither is jailbroken. In all that time, each device has crashed once. What are you doing to that thing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlor
I've owned my iPad 2 for almost two years and my Galaxy Nexus for close to the same. Each has been continuously on the latest (non beta) version; neither is jailbroken. In all that time, each device has crashed once. What are you doing to that thing?
I have a nexus 7 too, it crashes daily too, statistically speaking id ask 'what are you doing to yours for it not to crash?' that's the question, i think its more unusual to have it running stable, no joke.
when i say crash, i mean app crashes & sometimes the entire OS which reboots the system, My usage is pretty light, on my S4 its some texting, light browsing, sometimes running apps, I'm at work during the day so its not like i can just play on my phone, nexus 7 is much worse, its been wiped to factory settings several times, the wind changes directing & its rebooting, I've seen the same damn thing on my friends android devices & they always play it down like its a rare & unusual thing, what are the odds that they only crash while I'm around?... I think its one of those things that doesn't bother a lot of people or people don't notice, No doubt its happening tho.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbit
How would you turn it on and off? Volume? Looks a little nicer than the other rumored photos
paperclip.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman
I have a nexus 7 too, it crashes daily too, statistically speaking id ask 'what are you doing to yours for it not to crash?' that's the question, i think its more unusual to have it running stable, no joke.
when i say crash, i mean app crashes & sometimes the entire OS which reboots the system, My usage is pretty light, on my S4 its some texting, light browsing, sometimes running apps, I'm at work during the day so its not like i can just play on my phone, nexus 7 is much worse, its been wiped to factory settings several times, the wind changes directing & its rebooting, I've seen the same damn thing on my friends android devices & they always play it down like its a rare & unusual thing, what are the odds that they only crash while I'm around?... I think its one of those things that doesn't bother a lot of people or people don't notice, No doubt its happening tho.
You should not count app crashes when commenting on stability of any OS, unless it is a system app or if the same app behaves differently on someone else's device with a different version of the OS (even then ...). Otherwise, it is like telling someone you crash into fire hydrants all the time when asked how well your car drives.
My Nexus 7 rarely crashes. Same is true of my iPads and iPad Mini. All 3 are used extensively (including personal and development uses).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman
I have a nexus 7 too, it crashes daily too, statistically speaking id ask 'what are you doing to yours for it not to crash?' that's the question, i think its more unusual to have it running stable, no joke.
when i say crash, i mean app crashes & sometimes the entire OS which reboots the system, My usage is pretty light, on my S4 its some texting, light browsing, sometimes running apps, I'm at work during the day so its not like i can just play on my phone, nexus 7 is much worse, its been wiped to factory settings several times, the wind changes directing & its rebooting, I've seen the same damn thing on my friends android devices & they always play it down like its a rare & unusual thing, what are the odds that they only crash while I'm around?... I think its one of those things that doesn't bother a lot of people or people don't notice, No doubt its happening tho.
I don't use many apps (just Chrome, Moon Reader, Economist, and a couple games for my kids).
You mention that you're using an S4. Presumably that's with TouchWiz and Samsung's other addons. I'm using a Galaxy Nexus, so even though it's a Samsung device the software is pure Google. Maybe it's Samsung's extras that are causing your crashes, or one of your apps? Or maybe you just have a bad unit? My wife had to replace her iPhone 5 due to faulty memory that would produce glitches whenever she was using a lot of RAM. It happens.
I've never used a Nexus 7, so I have no input there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlor
You mention that you're using an S4. Presumably that's with TouchWiz and Samsung's other addons. I'm using a Galaxy Nexus, so even though it's a Samsung device the software is pure Google. Maybe it's Samsung's extras that are causing your crashes, or one of your apps? Or maybe you just have a bad unit? My wife had to replace her iPhone 5 due to faulty memory that would produce glitches whenever she was using a lot of RAM. It happens.
For sure, TouchWiz could be the cause, I know that some devices are faulty, at work I'm dealing with smartphones, we support them, politicians use them, the other S4s seem exactly the same as mine, i'm probably just a little spoiled
I don't see the cheap iPhone is possible. Here is why:
1. Profit Margin Impact: if cheap iPhone is released with all basic functions of iPhone 5 or new iPhone (5s?), a lot of people will get it since it's free (must be) with carrier subsidy. $100-$200 profit loss for every potential iPhone 5/5s customer unless Apple can sell 2-4 times more cheap iPhones to make up for the loss of every potential iPhone 5/5s customer. Why put the stress on yourself to make the same profit?
2. Price: because iPhone 5 price will be slashed by $100 to $99 subsidized or $550 un-subsidized at the new iPhone release this year, cheap iPhone must be free with subsidy or $399-$450 with no subsidy. What will Apple going to do with this cheap iPhone in next year refresh when iPhone 5 is free? Discontinue it? No way, it's only 1 year old. Price it -$100 subsidized or $250-$299 unsubsidized? Doubt it because Apple will end up with 4 tiers of iPhones: 6 (assumed), 5s, 5 and cheapo. Also, at $250-$299 un-subsidized, who wants an iPod Touch anymore? Apple is not that stupid.
3. Build of Material (BOM): Even if Apple will cut here and there to make it cheaper to build, the most they can reduce in BOM is $50 compared to iPhone 4s. I don't see the benefit of saving $50 in BOM but causing a huge risk in profit margin impact from potential new iPhone customer. New customers will be more likely to get 5 or 5s instead of 2-year old 4s, but will if the cheap iPhone is at lower tier, that's different story.
All good points.
One thing I will say is the cost of components in general has fallen and this year is probably the first where a cheaper iPhone could ever work.
Today Apple can use older components that are more than powerful enough for the average user.
We see how they did that with the iPad Mini using iPad 2 components but still being fast and compatible with the latest iOS. There is no lack of performance for most users even though it uses 2-3 year old tech.
If an iPhone were based on iPad Mini tech let's figure an iPad mini with LTE cost $459.
Apple could offer a low end 8GB model of the cheaper iPhone as a gateway with only one color option for $349 or $399, then a 16GB model with a range of colors for $100 more.
Most people would buy the color version which would have higher margins than the iPad Mini and make an affordable iPhone profitable for the company. Combine that with the greater sales such a device could have globally and you'll see the risk would be worth the return.