Google refreshes Nexus 7 with twice iPad mini's pixel count, for $100 less

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  • Reply 81 of 173
    macrulezmacrulez Posts: 2,455member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AppleTechSpot View Post


    You realize that you are trying to heap layers of complexity on a tablet and make it into a PC right? Tablets are supposed to be mobile single user devices to avoid the complexity of being a PC!!!





    Apple didn't get where it is by running from challenges.  They seem to be asking themselves, "How can we make useful things simple?" 


     


    Multiple user accounts are useful on tablets.  I'd wager Apple will add them in under two years.

  • Reply 82 of 173
    gazoobeegazoobee Posts: 3,754member


    For most consumers, this will be known as the "cheaper iPad mini that runs Android."  


     


    Just as a lot of folks call Galaxy Phones "the Samsung iPhone." 

  • Reply 83 of 173
    dilliodillio Posts: 106member


    Google adding multiple accounts will help with one area that should've been addressed in iOS long ago: when I give the iPad to my pre-school daughter, many times she is stuck in an in-app purchase screen and gets frustrated. There should be a solution for it. 


     


    I also saw in the comments above that multiple users is very complicated to implement. Since when did something complicated keep Apple from improving the experience of their users?

  • Reply 84 of 173
    pendergastpendergast Posts: 1,358member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post




    Apple didn't get where it is by running from challenges.  They seem to be asking themselves, "How can we make useful things simple?" 


     


    Multiple user accounts are useful on tablets.  I'd wager Apple will add them in under two years.



     


    Unless they get serious competition, it's not in their best interest fiscally to do so. From their point of view, it's better to encourage each person to get an iPad as a personal device.

  • Reply 85 of 173
    dilliodillio Posts: 106member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by allenbf View Post





    I find iOS 7 hideous. I doubt I'll upgrade my iPads or iPhones to it.


    I am thinking about the same thing. Hopefully many things will look different when it actually does come out. Not all skeuomorphism is bad, you know.

  • Reply 86 of 173
    macrulezmacrulez Posts: 2,455member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post


     


    Unless they get serious competition, it's not in their best interest fiscally to do so. From their point of view, it's better to encourage each person to get an iPad as a personal device.





    I can appreciate that argument on purely capitalistic terms, and I recognize that Apple's in business to make money.


     


    But on the other hand, when it comes to sacrificing utility for an artificial boost in profits, that doesn't seem Apple's way.  Sure, they make good money, but it seems mostly from delivering utility, not from hampering it.


     


    And besides, given the trend in relative market share, my prediction and yours may be very much in synch after all.

  • Reply 87 of 173
    gazoobeegazoobee Posts: 3,754member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Relic View Post





    Which apps where those, they weren't in the top 500 that is for sure. I haven't seen that since Android version 2.3. All new apps are written for dynamic resolutions, their is no longer a set resolution. There are some apps that use lower resolution but these are either very old or poorly programmed and no one uses them.


     


    Nah, when it first came out there was almost nothing optimised for it.  At least I couldn't find much.  You don't get to make first impressions twice either.  


     


    Personally, I find Google's form factor almost impossible to thumb-type on at all.  It's to narrow, and the keyboard keys are all weirdly "extra" narrow.  It's like they don't even care or are expecting people to use typing cases like Microsoft does.  Despite the prevalence of typing cases and add-on keyboards, the iPad and the iPad mini especially, have the great advantage of actually not being that bad to type on whereas every Android tablet I've tried has had an absolutely horrible virtual keyboard.  


     


    When you add in the fact that they are taller and heavier and are always trying to flip out of your fingers as a result, it's a piss-poor typing experience all round.  Android tablets seem to be mostly for teenagers to watch videos on IMO.  

  • Reply 88 of 173
    pendergastpendergast Posts: 1,358member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dillio View Post


    Google adding multiple accounts will help with one area that should've been addressed in iOS long ago: when I give the iPad to my pre-school daughter, many times she is stuck in an in-app purchase screen and gets frustrated. There should be a solution for it. 


     


    I also saw in the comments above that multiple users is very complicated to implement. Since when did something complicated keep Apple from improving the experience of their users?



     


    Not necessarily complicated coding-wise, but potentially complicated for the user. Multiple users is a hallmark of the PC; the iPad is the anti-PC.


     


    For instance, can you transfer files between users? Is music considered a common file, or are duplicates stored on the device? Videos? If I buy an app on one account, is it available for everyone, or just that user? If it's not duplicated data, then either someone could delete it without everyone's permission, or deleting content will require an Admin account. And if it is duplicated, that will further deplete already scarce storage space. Not everyone buys the 64GB or 128GB model. 


     


    Right now, an iPad "just works" when you pick it up. Nothing to set up, no administrators needed. It's simple for a user.


     


    Making multiple users "simple for a user" is the difficult part. Not impossible, mind you. But challenging.


     


    Obviously Apple can tackle "challenging", but it's not currently in their best interest, as it's preferable to them for each person to have their own personal iPad. 


     


    A "guest mode" would be much easier on the other hand and would solve a lot of the problems mentioned.

  • Reply 89 of 173
    gazoobeegazoobee Posts: 3,754member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gwmac View Post



    Restricted multi-user integration is a smart move and one I wish Apple would implement. When I let someone use my iPad I hate the fact that they have full access to my emails, texts, and other personal info. Of course this is also useful to prevent kids from in-app purchases.


     


    People are always asking for this (mostly tech-heads), but I think it's pretty clear if you're honest that the hardware just isn't at the stage where this can be done properly at all.  Maybe a few generations from now, but at the moment the memory and processor limitations make it seem really unlikely to me.  


     


    If history repeats itself, Google will cobble together some really crappy, jerky, full-of-security-holes implementation and then crow about it for a few generations as a "difference" between them and Apple.  Then Apple will implement it properly and everyone will be happy.  

  • Reply 90 of 173
    pendergastpendergast Posts: 1,358member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post




    I can appreciate that argument on purely capitalistic terms, and I recognize that Apple's in business to make money.


     


    But on the other hand, when it comes to sacrificing utility for an artificial boost in profits, that doesn't seem Apple's way.  Sure, they make good money, but it seems mostly from delivering utility, not from hampering it.


     


    And besides, given the trend in relative market share, my prediction and yours may be very much in synch after all.



     


    I wouldn't be surprised if Apple did or didn't offer it. It just doesn't seem to be a pressing need (for them) currently. 


     


    If they can get the iPad mini under $300 eventually, I think more people will simply buy them for each member of their family. I know my family has just about an iPad for each person, and a lot of people I know. It's viewed as a personal device, not a family device. 


     


    As was brought out in an earlier thread, I think iPads have a longer life expectancy than iPhones, so for growth to continue in existing markets, it will mostly be from new users, not upgraders as often (or an upgrader who gifts his old iPad to a family member, which is pretty common). If it's easier for iPads to be shared, I'd think growth would be hurt quite a bit.

  • Reply 91 of 173
    gwmacgwmac Posts: 1,807member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post


     


    Unless they get serious competition, it's not in their best interest fiscally to do so. From their point of view, it's better to encourage each person to get an iPad as a personal device.



    But even a single user often can need 2 separate accounts to make life easier. One corporate one personal for example. 


     


    Blackberry also did that for their new OS and that feature was widely praised for exactly that reason. On my Mac I have 3 users accounts just for myself because I need them. 

  • Reply 92 of 173
    gazoobeegazoobee Posts: 3,754member

    OMG what is that little kid doing listening to Spoon?  


    As if. 

  • Reply 93 of 173
    originalg wrote: »

    So draw a box on the login screen for another user and voila! Done!

    Consider how to restrict or grant access to data/apps on the same device between users? Or can you when you switch, do you actually logout and shutdown or suspend programs or keep them running in the background? How do you determine who gets what storage space? It's certainly not a simple thing to do.

    Although most of that, I would say, is not beyond the abilities of Apple's in-house devs, I think the problem lies entirely with third party apps. Let's say you have the same app installed on both user profiles. You could have the app installed twice, which would be wasteful (but simple,) or you have the much more complicated approach of sharing the app between two users. It isn't impossible to imagine that Apple could develop a layer of abstraction above the resources of third party apps that handles some of this, but depending on how the data is stored in the app (game saves, user settings, etc.) a lot of this might make changes to files that are kept in the app's resources, which would not respect the boundaries of multiple user profiles, by default.

    The better path is to offer developers of third party apps API's to handle multiple users in a standardized way, but this would be a case by case approach (as apps added the functionality,) which would mean that some apps might need to be installed for each user. This could mean that the limited storage of an iPad would be eaten up by huge amounts of redundancy, and that could have serious "user experience" consequences.

    Due to the approach that Apple has taken, apps are not currently written to deal with multiple users, as a rule (although some apps might store all user data/settings remotely, contingent on login, which would mitigate this problem,) and it seems like this would be a significant hurdle to overcome, although you can easily imagine a lot of approaches that Apple might choose.

    TL;DR: Third party apps are not currently written to handle multiple users accessing local resources, and the behavior would be unpredictable.

    I guess I agree with you, but I think Apple could pretty easily overcome everything except third party data issues, and even that could be addressed with APIs.
  • Reply 94 of 173
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    gazoobee wrote: »
    Nah, when it first came out there was almost nothing optimised for it.  At least I couldn't find much.  You don't get to make first impressions twice either.  

    Personally, I find Google's form factor almost impossible to thumb-type on at all.  It's to narrow, and the keyboard keys are all weirdly "extra" narrow.  It's like they don't even care or are expecting people to use typing cases like Microsoft does.  Despite the prevalence of typing cases and add-on keyboards, the iPad and the iPad mini especially, have the great advantage of actually not being that bad to type on whereas every Android tablet I've tried has had an absolutely horrible virtual keyboard.  

    When you add in the fact that they are taller and heavier and are always trying to flip out of your fingers as a result, it's a piss-poor typing experience all round.  Android tablets seem to be mostly for teenagers to watch videos on IMO.  

    I don't know how the device was when it first came out. I personally don't have one but my son does, he won it at my Christmas party last year. I've tried many apps on it and I just haven't seen any of these inconsistencies some of you are talking about. I would seriously like an example of just one app to check out, I have it in front of me right now.
  • Reply 95 of 173
    I love Google. This tablet shows real competition for Apple and how overpriced their products are. I am amused by the comments of Applefanboys in the comments. Nothing is better and can't beat Apple. Google is going and becoming the leader in technology Apple needs to wake up and produce something that can compete. As it presently stands Apple is fading away. I will be getting the new Nexus because simply the specs are way better than any tablet ever produced by Apple. Are they serious that they want to wait until next year to release the iPad mini with retina?
  • Reply 96 of 173
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,675member
    edmondo wrote: »
    <span style="line-height:1.231;">The NAND in the Nexus 7 is not, and never was, faulty.  Try actually reading up on a subject, rather than repeating the same incorrect information over and over again.  Anyway, since you no doubt will not bother - the issue is a driver one which meant that TRIM commands were not properly being issued to clear unused sectors in the NAND.  I wouldn't be surprised if Apple use virtually the same NAND chips in the iPad.</span>


    Most of the price differential is likely explained by the *very* different profit margins of the two devices.

    I so much am not interested in your opening post, 3 years ago.
  • Reply 97 of 173
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    stylorouge wrote:
    [post]

    Shut up and go away.
  • Reply 98 of 173
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,675member
    dillio wrote: »
    I cannot send e-mail to a group from my iPhone: why?

    Sure you can: create a group in your contact list. Open Mail, create a new email, tap on the top-right + sign, tap on the top-left Groups button.
  • Reply 99 of 173
    nexusphannexusphan Posts: 260member
    Although most of that, I would say, is not beyond the abilities of Apple's in-house devs, I think the problem lies entirely with third party apps. Let's say you have the same app installed on both user profiles. You could have the app installed twice, which would be wasteful (but simple,) or you have the much more complicated approach of sharing the app between two users. It isn't impossible to imagine that Apple could develop a layer of abstraction above the resources of third party apps that handles some of this, but depending on how the data is stored in the app (game saves, user settings, etc.) a lot of this might make changes to files that are kept in the app's resources, which would not respect the boundaries of multiple user profiles, by default.

    The better path is to offer developers of third party apps API's to handle multiple users in a standardized way, but this would be a case by case approach (as apps added the functionality,) which would mean that some apps might need to be installed for each user. This could mean that the limited storage of an iPad would be eaten up by huge amounts of redundancy, and that could have serious "user experience" consequences.

    Due to the approach that Apple has taken, apps are not currently written to deal with multiple users, as a rule (although some apps might store all user data/settings remotely, contingent on login, which would mitigate this problem,) and it seems like this would be a significant hurdle to overcome, although you can easily imagine a lot of approaches that Apple might choose.

    TL;DR: Third party apps are not currently written to handle multiple users accessing local resources, and the behavior would be unpredictable.

    I guess I agree with you, but I think Apple could pretty easily overcome everything except third party data issues, and even that could be addressed with APIs.

    Or do it exactly like android does now and has done for a year (Multiple users is not new to 4.3 Google just improved them with 4.3) You don't install an app twice. Its one app per device. The user data is kept separate per user. Apps only show up on users home screens if they 'install' them from the app store. They are kept hidden until then. You never double up on an all. Just the app data. Its brilliant.
  • Reply 100 of 173
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    . . . Start sucking the life out of Google's ad revenue and see how much Google likes it. Timid Cook just lets his company get screwed over by Google and Wall Street gives Google a free pass with a P/E ratio of close to 30. . . . C'mon Timid Cook, take off those white gloves and start kicking the crap out of Google for unleashing Android on the world.

    Ooo, Commander Dodo, I love it when you talk that way . . . and that uniform . . . !
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