Apple retail workers file class action suit claiming lost wages over bag searches

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  • Reply 181 of 291
    dickprinterdickprinter Posts: 1,060member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post





    I never claimed otherwise.


     


    So then where, pray tell, are they (women*) supposed to store the items required to get them through the day? Keys, iPhone, ID, debit/credit card/checkbook and or cash, maybe some makeup, and (especially) feminine products? Yes, these items are required to be on one's person at various points during the course of the day. One might answer: "Except for a key fob, leave everything in the car" But in a mall setting their car might be a 10-12-15 minute walk, there and back, from the workplace. In that case, 20-25-30 minutes is being taken away from their lunchtime. A car for a storage place may not even be an option when working in a city.


     


    Once again, I'm not for this lawsuit, but there needs to be a solution to this problem and walking into work without a bag (for reasons just stated) is not an option. I'm an employer and I would NEVER require my employees to wait for a security check after punching out even though there is no doubt that my employees "stole" time from me during the course of the day (by texting, BSing, and---in one case---crapping for 15 minutes every morning a half hour after punching in.) An employee stealing time while on the clock is a different issue, altogether, and should not be used as justification for the security check wait (as one person mentioned). A good solution would be some type of storage facility/locker that is in a different area away from the store, but that is not practical.


     


    Wizard69 is absolutely correct when he said a shoplifter (in this case pilferer) can only be charged with the crime AFTER leaving the premises (and an employee can only be charged with pilfering once they're clocked out).


     


    That said, this is the argument that you have yet to answer and seem to be circumventing while you spew your drive-by condescension. And I'm the one not following along in class???


     


    Your turn...


     


     


     


    *Women= The human counterpart to males that possess the 2 soft, horizontally adjacent bumps about 6 to 8 inches south of the neckline.

  • Reply 182 of 291
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,675member
    macslut wrote: »
    philboogie wrote: »
    Huh?


    "People who carry bags into work at Apple are subject to search."


    If they're going into work I'd presume it wouldn't be a customer, no?

    It's a technicality in the phrasing, but I wanted to be clear, because it's actually very relevant to the case and written in the complaint that only employees are searched, not customers.

    Also, many Apple Stores are like Starbucks... customers do go there to work.

    I like people wanting to be clear. Or just being clear. I just didn't think anything other than employees due to that word 'work'. Not my native language, so maybe I perceived it differently.

    ---

    People walking into Starbucks, if not waitering, are customers to me. Doesn't matter if they do work related things on their computer or pen+paper.
  • Reply 183 of 291
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    jungmark wrote: »
    And they need a bag to hold it all in.

    Nope.
    So then where, pray tell, are they (women*) supposed to store the items required to get them through the day? Keys, iPhone, ID, debit/credit card/checkbook and or cash, maybe some makeup, and (especially) feminine products? Yes, these items are required to be on one's person at various points during the course of the day.

    You're smart. So instead of this condescending BS you keep spewing, you go right ahead and tell me how. Hint: "bag" is not an acceptable answer. Hint: there are multiple answers.
    That said, this is the argument that you have yet to answer and seem to be circumventing while you spew your drive-by condescension.

    Sorry, which? I saw one question mark, so I followed up on that.
  • Reply 184 of 291
    For decades, Apple has displayed strong core insight and creativity. For those same decades, Apple has always skimped on some corner, failed to follow through in some way, gone off in another direction stranding early adopters, and neglected communication with customers. Apple likes to produce insanely great stuff, then move on. So adolescent ADD.

    This is really dumb management. The most you could possibly improve the bottom line by squeezing employees is the total salaries paid. The most you could improve the bottom line with employee relations that were the model of the industry and above reproach is surely more than that -- I'm going to guess it's in the billions.
  • Reply 185 of 291
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    Nope.

    Then how? Many people in cities take mass transit to work. You expect them to buy items every individual time they need to instead of bringing it from home?
  • Reply 186 of 291
    dickprinterdickprinter Posts: 1,060member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post





    Nope.

    You're smart. So instead of this condescending BS you keep spewing, you go right ahead and tell me how. Hint: "bag" is not an acceptable answer. Hint: there are multiple answers.

    Sorry, which? I saw one question mark, so I followed up on that.


    Let's cut to the chase. I'm looking for an answer to the question that you say has multiple answers. I am posing the question to you because you maintain a bag can be eliminated in (a woman's) everyday life. (See your one word answer to Jungmark)


     


    You can't answer a question with a question, that only means you don't have an answer.


     


    So what do you propose they do?

  • Reply 187 of 291
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,675member
    Stuff it¿
  • Reply 188 of 291
    vicaustin wrote: »
    For decades, Apple has displayed strong core insight and creativity. For those same decades, Apple has always skimped on some corner, failed to follow through in some way, gone off in another direction stranding early adopters, and neglected communication with customers. Apple likes to produce insanely great stuff, then move on. So adolescent ADD.

    This is really dumb management. The most you could possibly improve the bottom line by squeezing employees is the total salaries paid. The most you could improve the bottom line with employee relations that were the model of the industry and above reproach is surely more than that -- I'm going to guess it's in the billions.

    Well, you might have a point with management. They do tend to hire from the outside instead of promoting from within. That said, the employees who had an issue with the time it takes to search their belongings could have contacted their HR rep, via email and cc a copy to their personal email along with any replies.
    It's ironic that these issues are brought to light after the employee has left Apple.
  • Reply 189 of 291
    An hourly employee should be compensated for their time spent at work. This is the same as Nordstrom's hourly employees who were expected to maintain their customer contact logs & make their customer contacts during the associate's off hours, when they were off of the clock. There are many other examples. Essentially, hourly staff must be paid for the time they are required to be at work. Apple Stores are aware of their hourly staff schedules & can properly have a manager or security staff at the employee entrance during shift changes and meal breaks. It's not very difficult

    Cheers !
  • Reply 190 of 291
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    So what do you propose they do?

    There was sort of a famous invention in the 17th century that solves these problems, I'd think. And again, the obvious, don't bring your bag to work. There's no room for debate here; you're just plain wrong.

    "I want to bring my sofa into work."
    "Do you need your sofa for your job?"
    "No."
    "Then you do it at your employer's discretion and under their rules."
  • Reply 191 of 291
    richard getzrichard getz Posts: 1,142member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by HammerofTruth View Post





    Work there first before you mouth off.


     


    NO! Retail is retail, and people are people. 

  • Reply 192 of 291
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post


     


    LMAO!! 


     


    Really, so apparently you have never managed anything. I don't pay people to stand around talking to their friends, sorry if you think that is what you are ethically required to allow. I do pay people to work. OH MY! Yes, I pay people to work, not to stand around socializing. That is why it's called WORK and not PARTY. 


     


    People like you are the reason why America has lost its quality workforce. Well, you and the unions, but I guess you both share the same work ethic. 





    All you do is post baseless rants with misdirected anger and baseless conclusions. Perhaps for once you could explain your stance rather than post garbage.

  • Reply 193 of 291
    dickprinterdickprinter Posts: 1,060member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post





    There was sort of a famous invention in the 17th century that solves these problems, I'd think. And again, the obvious, don't bring your bag to work. There's no room for debate here; you're just plain wrong.



    "I want to bring my sofa into work."

    "Do you need your sofa for your job?"

    "No."

    "Then you do it at your employer's discretion and under their rules."


     


    There were a lot of "sort of famous" 17th century inventions, can you narrow down the field to the one specific to the topic, please? Sorry, my recollection of 17th Century inventions escapes me right now.


     


    Your cute dialogue completely misses the point. I named a multitude of items that are necessary to travel to and from work, plus the female specific items that are necessary because...... they need them when they need them. A couch is not one of them but I've seen some of the said items look as big as a couch cushion. Are you saying since females need to keep their items in a bag then, too bad, they have to wait for their security check...on their own time? If it's time for their menses they should stay home? Females shouldn't apply because any female that brings a bag for her personal items will cause a delay in leaving, on her time, after she clocks out? 


     


    I get that you feel this case will be thrown out, I think so, too. But this thread has been used to discuss solutions to the situation. Do you have any, besides saying (paraphrased) "If you don't need it for your job, then you don't need it....so don't bring it"? That's NOT an option, you've been told that by me and other members and I don't see why you don't understand.


     


    Again.....keys, a form of currency and ID -- AT THE MINIMUM -- are all things a male needs to get to and from work. These can fit in the pockets of men's slacks/jeans. A woman has a few more personal items, possibly even a prescription, and their working attire usually doesn't have pockets or pockets big enough to comfortably accommodate these items.


     


    Can I get an answer or your proposed solution now, please?

  • Reply 194 of 291
    dickprinterdickprinter Posts: 1,060member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hmm View Post




    All you do is post baseless rants with misdirected anger and baseless conclusions. Perhaps for once you could explain your stance rather than post garbage.



     


    This is not a baseless rant. I'm an employer and he's spot-on. Workers today think they're entitled to use their smartphones on company time and think nothing of BSing on Mondays about their weekend.

  • Reply 195 of 291
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post


     


    This is not a baseless rant. I'm an employer and he's spot-on. Workers today think they're entitled to use their smartphones on company time and think nothing of BSing on Mondays about their weekend.





    I have a pretty extreme hatred of generalizations. What you described is a bad employee culture. You then projected your own personal anecdotes onto the situation, and assumed that since it went one way for you, the same must be true there. Not everyone looks at their smartphone constantly just because they can get away with it, and beyond that it's not even tangential to the situation here. It's a matter of whether Apple has the right to do that. They do have the ability to fire people for negligence. They may not have the legal right to hold people there once off the clock.


     


    I'll add that you also have the option to fire people. If it's a problem with the culture of your workplace, that can be difficult to fix.

  • Reply 196 of 291
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    There were a lot of "sort of famous" 17th century inventions, can you narrow down the field to the one specific to the topic, please? Sorry, my recollection of 17th Century inventions escapes me right now.

    Pockets. Come off it.
    I named a multitude of items that are necessary to travel to and from work, plus the female specific items that are necessary because...... they need them when they need them.

    Keys and ID are necessary to travel to and from work. The rest is choice.
    Are you saying since females need to keep their items in a bag then, too bad, they have to wait for their security check...on their own time? If it's time for their menses they should stay home? Females shouldn't apply because any female that brings a bag for her personal items will cause a delay in leaving, on her time, after she clocks out? 

    You don't sound like a very intelligent "employer" if you can't figure out simple answers to these questions already.
    Workers today think they're entitled to use their smartphones on company time…

    Your implication is that they're not, correct?
  • Reply 197 of 291
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    This conversation is really quite interesting, I've learned a lot about how people in America view their minimum wage employees. I am so blessed that I was able to go to a really good university and especially have a job where checking bags isn't necessary. As a female who carries a purse I couldn't imagine the humiliation of a male security person rummaging threw it for contraband or stolen goods. It's so demeaning, if you cannot trust your employees then why should the employee trust their employer. The Apple Store has many security cameras, if something comes up missing why not just check the video footage. Do employees steal so much in America that these kind of practices have to be put into place. I personally could never work for an Apple Store after hearing about this, it's absolutely horrendous and banning personal purses or backpacks probably wouldn't slow down a would be thief anyway, as iPads, iPods, iPhones, software, accessories, ect. are small enough to conceal on ones person. This whole exercise is not only counterproductive but probably destroys the integrity of the employer in the employees eyes. I'm sorry for not following most of your views here but this sucks and the employees should be awarded any damages they are seeking. It's not like Apple is hurting for money, I would hope that employee theft is so rare that Apple would rather have a happy employee then to punish them all because of the transgressions of a very few. I just don't see the benefit here for either party.
  • Reply 198 of 291
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    This is not a baseless rant. I'm an employer and he's spot-on. Workers today think they're entitled to use their smartphones on company time and think nothing of BSing on Mondays about their weekend.

    As a manager of 12 programmers I can really care less how many personal phone calls an employee makes in a work day, how many breaks they have, if they come in late or leave early. They all have a set time in which to complete a project, if that timeline isn't met then there will be consequences. I never understood the need for micromanagement of projects or a drill sergeant attitude towards the employees personal needs. If I was to have such an employee who requires that kind of attention to get his or hers work done then as far as I'm concern they have no place on my team. I'm not a den mother, nor do I have time for such things. As long as the work is done in a timely manner and adhere's to my quality I really can care less what the employee does. Granted an Apple Store is a completely different environment then that of a office environment. Do you run a retail shop?
  • Reply 199 of 291
    dickprinterdickprinter Posts: 1,060member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Relic View Post





    As a manager of 12 programmers I can really care less how many personal phone calls an employee makes in a work day, how many breaks they have, if they come in late or leave early. They all have a set time in which to complete a project, if that timeline isn't met then there will be consequences. I never understood the need for micromanagement of projects or a drill sergeant attitude towards the employees personal needs. If I was to have such an employee who requires that kind of attention to get his or hers work done then as far as I'm concern they have no place on my team. I'm not a den mother, nor do I have time for such things. As long as the work is done in a timely manner and adhere's to my quality I really can care less what the employee does. Granted an Apple Store is a completely different environment then that of a office environment. Do you run a retail shop?


    I own a commercial print shop which also does some degree of walk-in/retail. I don't micromanage, which gives some of my "younger generation" employees the opportunity to check their phones and send text messages. When I said that they think they have the right to do it, I'm not kidding. The older workers don't push it because their work ethic is better than the younger people. Am I making generalizations? Yes, but it's a pretty good assessment of what the labor pool practices. Not just according to me but also according to my peers, suppliers, associates and competitors. There's a lot of lost time happening.

  • Reply 200 of 291
    dickprinterdickprinter Posts: 1,060member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post





    Pockets. Come off it.

    Keys and ID are necessary to travel to and from work. The rest is choice.

    You don't sound like a very intelligent "employer" if you can't figure out simple answers to these questions already.

    Your implication is that they're not, correct?


     


    I don't expect you to know this (and you obviously don't) but MOST women's clothing DO NOT HAVE POCKETS. IF they do, they're far from functional or useful. Call me any name you want, it's the truth. If you think a woman is going to shove a sanitary napkin into a pant pocket the size of a saltine, you don't have much experience with women. Sorry, woman do not have the choice nor are they given the option NOT to get their period every month so they must be prepared for it. 


     


    I'm quite an intelligent employer and business owner, I've been in business for 25 years. Most of my workers have been with me for close to 20 of those years so I have to be doing something right. Because of this, I have become quite observant of habits that people practice.


     


    You can't propose a viable or practical solution to this issue. HINT: Pockets are not a solution for women.


     


    Now give it a shot.

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