Now, do your own homework in the future. Or do you really need someone to hold your hand and show you the posts you claim to have read?
Thanks for doing my homework, mommy, but I have argued well against your insistent use of pockets and not bringing a bag into work. Other members have also told you the same.
Give up, you're wrong and you lose. Thanks for the big waste of time.
[quote name="Dickprinter" url="/t/158765/apple-retail-workers-file-class-action-suit-claiming-lost-wages-over-bag-searches/200#post_2372154"]…I have argued well against your insistent use of pockets and not bringing a bag into work. [/QUOTE]
No, you've said they don't exist, aren't sufficient, and that it isn't possible, respectively.
Such statements are idiotic, and, as the future will show (heck, the present), completely irrelevant. It should be intractable to continue claiming something when it has been proven wrong or irrelevant. Heck, it can probably be defined as trolling.
Apple's policy will change to stop people from bringing bags into work at all, since apparently people are too stupid to understand how to do that themselves. I'm sick of all this coddling in society. If you're too stupid to figure something out, you pay the price for it. Maybe, just maybe, I shouldn't bring my bag into work if I don't want it searched, seeing as the bag isn't required and its allowance is a courtesy in the first place.
No, you've said they don't exist, aren't sufficient, and that it isn't possible, respectively.
Such statements are idiotic, and, as the future will show (heck, the present), completely irrelevant. It should be intractable to continue claiming something when it has been proven wrong or irrelevant. Heck, it can probably be defined as trolling.
Apple's policy will change to stop people from bringing bags into work at all, since apparently people are too stupid to understand how to do that themselves. I'm sick of all this coddling in society. If you're too stupid to figure something out, you pay the price for it. Maybe, just maybe, I shouldn't bring my bag into work if I don't want it searched, seeing as the bag isn't required and its allowance is a courtesy in the first place.
So bringing a bag into work is a courtesy extended by an employer now? Alllllrighty then.
I'm not trolling and I have cited many reasons why you can't keep people from using some type of bag to transport things that are needed during the course of a day.....ESPECIALLY females. I don't know why you keep ignoring that fact. Just because you don't doesn't mean that others don't have the need and what's idiotic is the fact that you can't understand that your needs, or lack thereof, is different than other people's needs.
A lot of girls are modest and don't like to advertise that they have their period.....so let's just walk through the Apple store on the way to clock in with a big box of tampons in-hand telling the whole world. How about if someone needs to take a medicine multiple times a day? (Edit: Think diabetics needing insulin and syringes. Don't you just hate coddling to a diabetic's needs?). It is illegal to transport a prescription NOT in it's original bottle and I'm sure walking around with a big yellow prescription bottle is not something most would be comfortable doing. Actually, it's no one's business knowing who is taking what medicines. It's not black and white.
No, you've said they don't exist, aren't sufficient, and that it isn't possible, respectively.
Such statements are idiotic, and, as the future will show (heck, the present), completely irrelevant. It should be intractable to continue claiming something when it has been proven wrong or irrelevant. Heck, it can probably be defined as trolling.
Pockets on many women pants are insufficient and/or non existent. Give up. You try going to work with just keys and an ID and leave them in your pocket all day.
So bringing a bag into work is a courtesy extended by an employer now? Alllllrighty then.
...You're ignorant AND crazy.
You've probably been here longer than me, so I admire your persistence in trying to teach tallest skil something. It only took me a couple weeks to figure out that he's constitutionally incapable of seeing any perspective other than his own, much less admitting he could have been even slightly wrong.
This conversation is really quite interesting, I've learned a lot about how people in America view their minimum wage employees. I am so blessed that I was able to go to a really good university and especially have a job where checking bags isn't necessary. As a female who carries a purse I couldn't imagine the humiliation of a male security person rummaging threw it for contraband or stolen goods. It's so demeaning, if you cannot trust your employees then why should the employee trust their employer. The Apple Store has many security cameras, if something comes up missing why not just check the video footage. Do employees steal so much in America that these kind of practices have to be put into place. I personally could never work for an Apple Store after hearing about this, it's absolutely horrendous and banning personal purses or backpacks probably wouldn't slow down a would be thief anyway, as iPads, iPods, iPhones, software, accessories, ect. are small enough to conceal on ones person. This whole exercise is not only counterproductive but probably destroys the integrity of the employer in the employees eyes. I'm sorry for not following most of your views here but this sucks and the employees should be awarded any damages they are seeking. It's not like Apple is hurting for money, I would hope that employee theft is so rare that Apple would rather have a happy employee then to punish them all because of the transgressions of a very few. I just don't see the benefit here for either party.
Finally a reasonable, intelligent, logical post that deals with reality.
I think some of the people who posted either:
A) are trolling have absolutely no regard for workers, especially low-paid workers
C) never leave their house, so they have no understanding of what real people do or need
D) have no understanding of women.
You've probably been here longer than me, so I admire your persistence in trying to teach tallest skil something. It only took me a couple weeks to figure out that he's constitutionally incapable of seeing any perspective other than his own, much less admitting he could have been even slightly wrong.
I've visited AI for close to 10 years and I've been a member for 5. I usually sit on the sidelines to read comments and to be entertained. The fanaticism on both the Apple and non-Apple side is extreme and quite humorous at times. I pipe-up and chime-in when there are comments made that I just can't accept. Tallest Skil did one of his typical drive-by posts saying that this lawsuit has no merit and will get thrown out without really explaining why. While I agree that the lawsuit will go nowhere, I tried to engage with him in an effort to get his reasoning and/or to suggest a solution. He seems to think that no one should ever have the need to bring any type of bag to their place of employment. I maintain that there are many people, especially women, that cannot get through the workday without some type of bag to hold their personal items. I also brought up people with medical issues, such as diabetics, who need to test and inject themselves at least after every meal. The insulin needs to be refrigerated, also.
Why he can't see that this is not a black and white issue, I'll never know. His answers are "you don't need a bag" and "pockets!". I've given numerous instances where a bag would be indispensable to some people, but, it seems that I am completely wrong about that and anything that anyone might need during the course of the workday can be stored in pants pockets.
I'm sure Apple employees are far removed from the rest of the country, but here are just a few links. Most research shows employees waste 1.5 - 2 hours per day!
I suspect you're just randomly googling, as I know forbes and salary.com would be on the first page or so. They come up frequently. Apart from that the gallup poll is the only thing there that might count as research, albeit still open to bias in terms of how it is quantified. By that I mean how it's randomized and what people actually regard as their own wasted time. You're trying to take survey data to prove that specific individuals don't have a case. That isn't likely to work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz
what more is there to explain than what I wrote already in several posts? What don't you understand?
No one works 100% of the time and much of that is not due to not having any work, but the person wanting to talk to others, be lazy, check email, text friends, etc. Which in and of itself I was not complaining about. However, when the same people then complain that Apple takes 5 minutes out of their time to check bags, when they took on average an hour of Apple's time is very hypocritical.
What they are saying is 'I can stand around talking and texting and emailing when on the clock, knowing I should be doing something else, but you don't have the right to take any additional time from me'.
See you don't have data on any of these guys. Everything you presented is generalized, not specific to this company, and as I mentioned it gives no indication of whether Apple or any other company can even require people to remain on premises after clocking out. That is probably one of the things that will be considered in determining whether the case moves forward. You don't really know if these people behave in such a manner. You just assumed it and projected your opinion, combined with the boogie man (labor unions) reference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter
So what are your thoughts for a solution?
I've been thinking about that. It's not like employees would have to stash things in their bags to steal them. Bags hold more, but no one is going to try to steal 10 phones at a time. It's unlikely that they would try to steal one per shift. You may recall some of the recent articles regarding smartphone manufacturers and anti-theft devices. On phones those kinds of things should also be effective at the retail level. Those are some of the highest return per dollar items. With something really small such as an ipod nano, it's not like it's easy to prevent all forms of theft there. In fact I wonder if there are any retail loss prevention case studies floating around that examine the effectiveness of constant bag checks. If they really feel bag checks need to be in place, they may want to work on efficiency. In this case a manager has to sign off, meaning to alleviate any extra time, they would have to be available anytime employees are about to clock out. They would probably have security staff for check ins/check outs instead if it wasn't an added expense. Many office buildings have that. You check in. They ask what business you're visiting. They tell you the exact elevator to board.
Anyway I doubt there's an easy solution that covers everything perfectly, but I also doubt the effectiveness of treating your staff like potential criminals.
So bringing a bag into work is a courtesy extended by an employer now? Alllllrighty then.
I'm sure the government (Lockheed Martin, any prison, chemistry labs, the National Reserve…) will bend over backward and allow you to take anything you want anywhere you want if you work for them¡ :no:
…you can't keep people from using some type of bag…
Sure you can. It's called, "You're fired; follow the rules."
I don't know why you keep ignoring that fact.
Only because it isn't, not because of how you've constructed and presented your argument.
A lot of girls are modest and don't like to advertise that they have their period.....so let's just walk through the Apple store on the way to clock in with a big box of tampons in-hand telling the whole world.
I was under the distinct impression that there were dispensers for said devices in women's restrooms. Also that only one was necessary at a time.
How about if someone needs to take a medicine multiple times a day? (Edit: Think diabetics needing insulin and syringes. Don't you just hate coddling to a diabetic's needs?).
You wouldn't need to do this if you had a proper argument.
You try going to work with just keys and an ID and leave them in your pocket all day.
Already do. Works magically. Sort of the reason I can't fathom why you think people deserve to take bags of crap anywhere they want in the first place. A potential Apple ban on employee bags isn't going to destroy anyone's life, is perfectly legal, and won't arouse any complaints in the first place except from these people demanding money on top of being afforded the ability to carry bags into the back part of the store.
I was under the distinct impression that there were dispensers for said devices in women's restrooms. Also that only one was necessary at a time.
Those cost money and if they can only carry keys and an ID, how would they pay for it. In addition, you obviously never been with a girl if you think they only use one item for 8 hours.
Already do. Works magically. Sort of the reason I can't fathom why you think people deserve to take bags of crap anywhere they want in the first place. A potential Apple ban on employee bags isn't going to destroy anyone's life, is perfectly legal, and won't arouse any complaints in the first place except from these people demanding money on top of being afforded the ability to carry bags into the back part of the store.
I smell bullsh1t. You just take an ID and keys? So you leave your wallet, money and phone at home?
We aren't talking about luggage. We are talking about handbags.
Those cost money and if they can only carry keys and an ID, how would they pay for it. In addition, you obviously never been with a girl if you think they only use one item for 8 hours.
And with the breaks they're allotted, that stops being a problem.
I smell bullsh1t. You just take an ID and keys? So you leave your wallet, money and phone at home?
Of course not. In the car, just like these magically "needed" bags would be. I never carry my wallet, anyway. If I need money, I take in the money I need.
And with the breaks they're allotted, that stops being a problem.
Of course not. In the car, just like these magically "needed" bags would be. I never carry my wallet, anyway. If I need money, I take in the money I need.
So for people taking mass transit, just tell them to leave their phones and money on the bus/train or buy a car. F'n brilliant.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Already did. Actually read my posts, please.
That's Hindi for what you already quoted.
Gladly. Since you know exactly, give me a post number that provides my answer, please, and stop being so difficult.
That's English for....grow up.
Now that's funny.
Overalls can be sexy.
Or women can wear these.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Now that's funny.
Overalls can be sexy.
Or women can wear these.
Maybe that's what TS is suggesting. How dumb of me.
Wearing those, I would think employees would have to endure a pat-down, which would open a whole new can of worms.
LOL, I've seen some women's legs look like that when they're wearing smooth, black spandex, trying to fit 10 lbs. of potatoes in a 5 lb. sack.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/158765/apple-retail-workers-file-class-action-suit-claiming-lost-wages-over-bag-searches/80#post_2370310
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/158765/apple-retail-workers-file-class-action-suit-claiming-lost-wages-over-bag-searches/80#post_2370395
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/158765/apple-retail-workers-file-class-action-suit-claiming-lost-wages-over-bag-searches/160#post_2371622
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/158765/apple-retail-workers-file-class-action-suit-claiming-lost-wages-over-bag-searches/160#post_2371676
Now, do your own homework in the future. Or do you really need someone to hold your hand and show you the posts you claim to have read?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/158765/apple-retail-workers-file-class-action-suit-claiming-lost-wages-over-bag-searches/80#post_2370310
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/158765/apple-retail-workers-file-class-action-suit-claiming-lost-wages-over-bag-searches/80#post_2370395
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/158765/apple-retail-workers-file-class-action-suit-claiming-lost-wages-over-bag-searches/160#post_2371622
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/158765/apple-retail-workers-file-class-action-suit-claiming-lost-wages-over-bag-searches/160#post_2371676
Now, do your own homework in the future. Or do you really need someone to hold your hand and show you the posts you claim to have read?
Thanks for doing my homework, mommy, but I have argued well against your insistent use of pockets and not bringing a bag into work. Other members have also told you the same.
Give up, you're wrong and you lose. Thanks for the big waste of time.
No, you've said they don't exist, aren't sufficient, and that it isn't possible, respectively.
Such statements are idiotic, and, as the future will show (heck, the present), completely irrelevant. It should be intractable to continue claiming something when it has been proven wrong or irrelevant. Heck, it can probably be defined as trolling.
Apple's policy will change to stop people from bringing bags into work at all, since apparently people are too stupid to understand how to do that themselves. I'm sick of all this coddling in society. If you're too stupid to figure something out, you pay the price for it. Maybe, just maybe, I shouldn't bring my bag into work if I don't want it searched, seeing as the bag isn't required and its allowance is a courtesy in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
No, you've said they don't exist, aren't sufficient, and that it isn't possible, respectively.
Such statements are idiotic, and, as the future will show (heck, the present), completely irrelevant. It should be intractable to continue claiming something when it has been proven wrong or irrelevant. Heck, it can probably be defined as trolling.
Apple's policy will change to stop people from bringing bags into work at all, since apparently people are too stupid to understand how to do that themselves. I'm sick of all this coddling in society. If you're too stupid to figure something out, you pay the price for it. Maybe, just maybe, I shouldn't bring my bag into work if I don't want it searched, seeing as the bag isn't required and its allowance is a courtesy in the first place.
So bringing a bag into work is a courtesy extended by an employer now? Alllllrighty then.
I'm not trolling and I have cited many reasons why you can't keep people from using some type of bag to transport things that are needed during the course of a day.....ESPECIALLY females. I don't know why you keep ignoring that fact. Just because you don't doesn't mean that others don't have the need and what's idiotic is the fact that you can't understand that your needs, or lack thereof, is different than other people's needs.
A lot of girls are modest and don't like to advertise that they have their period.....so let's just walk through the Apple store on the way to clock in with a big box of tampons in-hand telling the whole world. How about if someone needs to take a medicine multiple times a day? (Edit: Think diabetics needing insulin and syringes. Don't you just hate coddling to a diabetic's needs?). It is illegal to transport a prescription NOT in it's original bottle and I'm sure walking around with a big yellow prescription bottle is not something most would be comfortable doing. Actually, it's no one's business knowing who is taking what medicines. It's not black and white.
You're ignorant AND crazy.
Pockets on many women pants are insufficient and/or non existent. Give up. You try going to work with just keys and an ID and leave them in your pocket all day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter
So bringing a bag into work is a courtesy extended by an employer now? Alllllrighty then.
...You're ignorant AND crazy.
You've probably been here longer than me, so I admire your persistence in trying to teach tallest skil something. It only took me a couple weeks to figure out that he's constitutionally incapable of seeing any perspective other than his own, much less admitting he could have been even slightly wrong.
Finally a reasonable, intelligent, logical post that deals with reality.
I think some of the people who posted either:
A) are trolling
C) never leave their house, so they have no understanding of what real people do or need
D) have no understanding of women.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb
Finally a reasonable, intelligent, logical post that deals with reality.
I think some of the people who posted either:
A) are trolling
C) never leave their house, so they have no understanding of what real people do or need
D) have no understanding of women.
I'll take "Things that describe Tallest Skil" for $1000, please, Alex.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlor
You've probably been here longer than me, so I admire your persistence in trying to teach tallest skil something. It only took me a couple weeks to figure out that he's constitutionally incapable of seeing any perspective other than his own, much less admitting he could have been even slightly wrong.
I've visited AI for close to 10 years and I've been a member for 5. I usually sit on the sidelines to read comments and to be entertained. The fanaticism on both the Apple and non-Apple side is extreme and quite humorous at times. I pipe-up and chime-in when there are comments made that I just can't accept. Tallest Skil did one of his typical drive-by posts saying that this lawsuit has no merit and will get thrown out without really explaining why. While I agree that the lawsuit will go nowhere, I tried to engage with him in an effort to get his reasoning and/or to suggest a solution. He seems to think that no one should ever have the need to bring any type of bag to their place of employment. I maintain that there are many people, especially women, that cannot get through the workday without some type of bag to hold their personal items. I also brought up people with medical issues, such as diabetics, who need to test and inject themselves at least after every meal. The insulin needs to be refrigerated, also.
Why he can't see that this is not a black and white issue, I'll never know. His answers are "you don't need a bag" and "pockets!". I've given numerous instances where a bag would be indispensable to some people, but, it seems that I am completely wrong about that and anything that anyone might need during the course of the workday can be stored in pants pockets.
Thanks for the kudos.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz
I'm sure Apple employees are far removed from the rest of the country, but here are just a few links. Most research shows employees waste 1.5 - 2 hours per day!
http://www.forbes.com/sites/cherylsnappconner/2012/07/17/employees-really-do-waste-time-at-work/
http://www.gallup.com/poll/28618/US-Workers-Say-They-Waste-About-Hour-Work-Each-Day.aspx
http://www.salary.com/wasting-time-at-work-2012/
http://libgig.com/node/1011
I suspect you're just randomly googling, as I know forbes and salary.com would be on the first page or so. They come up frequently. Apart from that the gallup poll is the only thing there that might count as research, albeit still open to bias in terms of how it is quantified. By that I mean how it's randomized and what people actually regard as their own wasted time. You're trying to take survey data to prove that specific individuals don't have a case. That isn't likely to work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz
what more is there to explain than what I wrote already in several posts? What don't you understand?
No one works 100% of the time and much of that is not due to not having any work, but the person wanting to talk to others, be lazy, check email, text friends, etc. Which in and of itself I was not complaining about. However, when the same people then complain that Apple takes 5 minutes out of their time to check bags, when they took on average an hour of Apple's time is very hypocritical.
What they are saying is 'I can stand around talking and texting and emailing when on the clock, knowing I should be doing something else, but you don't have the right to take any additional time from me'.
See you don't have data on any of these guys. Everything you presented is generalized, not specific to this company, and as I mentioned it gives no indication of whether Apple or any other company can even require people to remain on premises after clocking out. That is probably one of the things that will be considered in determining whether the case moves forward. You don't really know if these people behave in such a manner. You just assumed it and projected your opinion, combined with the boogie man (labor unions) reference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter
So what are your thoughts for a solution?
I've been thinking about that. It's not like employees would have to stash things in their bags to steal them. Bags hold more, but no one is going to try to steal 10 phones at a time. It's unlikely that they would try to steal one per shift. You may recall some of the recent articles regarding smartphone manufacturers and anti-theft devices. On phones those kinds of things should also be effective at the retail level. Those are some of the highest return per dollar items. With something really small such as an ipod nano, it's not like it's easy to prevent all forms of theft there. In fact I wonder if there are any retail loss prevention case studies floating around that examine the effectiveness of constant bag checks. If they really feel bag checks need to be in place, they may want to work on efficiency. In this case a manager has to sign off, meaning to alleviate any extra time, they would have to be available anytime employees are about to clock out. They would probably have security staff for check ins/check outs instead if it wasn't an added expense. Many office buildings have that. You check in. They ask what business you're visiting. They tell you the exact elevator to board.
Anyway I doubt there's an easy solution that covers everything perfectly, but I also doubt the effectiveness of treating your staff like potential criminals.
I'm sure the government (Lockheed Martin, any prison, chemistry labs, the National Reserve…) will bend over backward and allow you to take anything you want anywhere you want if you work for them¡ :no:
Sure you can. It's called, "You're fired; follow the rules."
Only because it isn't, not because of how you've constructed and presented your argument.
I was under the distinct impression that there were dispensers for said devices in women's restrooms. Also that only one was necessary at a time.
You wouldn't need to do this if you had a proper argument.
Already do. Works magically. Sort of the reason I can't fathom why you think people deserve to take bags of crap anywhere they want in the first place. A potential Apple ban on employee bags isn't going to destroy anyone's life, is perfectly legal, and won't arouse any complaints in the first place except from these people demanding money on top of being afforded the ability to carry bags into the back part of the store.
Those cost money and if they can only carry keys and an ID, how would they pay for it. In addition, you obviously never been with a girl if you think they only use one item for 8 hours.
I smell bullsh1t. You just take an ID and keys? So you leave your wallet, money and phone at home?
We aren't talking about luggage. We are talking about handbags.
And with the breaks they're allotted, that stops being a problem.
Of course not. In the car, just like these magically "needed" bags would be. I never carry my wallet, anyway. If I need money, I take in the money I need.
So for people taking mass transit, just tell them to leave their phones and money on the bus/train or buy a car. F'n brilliant.
I don't claim to be the norm. If you can't get your money, keys, phone, and some form of ID in your pockets, your phone's too big.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
(... blah, blah, blah...)
UNCLE!
There, I said it!
It's not worth another second of my time to argue with someone with your mentality. Completely futile.
Now that I conceded you can continue on in life knowing you've won instead of just thinking you've won. Happy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I don't claim to be the norm.
Finally.....the truth.