Apple retail workers file class action suit claiming lost wages over bag searches

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  • Reply 101 of 291
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,652member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post


    Companies are forced to give 15 minute breaks to people not doing much work. 


     


     



    There's no such law.   It might be a union agreement, but it's not a law.  And according to this, employers do not have to compensate employees for meal time (I thought that they did), although most do.


     


    Here's the Department of Labor regulation:


     


     


    Quote:


    Federal law does not require lunch or coffee breaks. However, when employers do offer short breaks (usually lasting about 5 to 20 minutes), federal law considers the breaks as compensable work hours that would be included in the sum of hours worked during the work week and considered in determining if overtime was worked. Unauthorized extensions of authorized work breaks need not be counted as hours worked when the employer has expressly and unambiguously communicated to the employee that the authorized break may only last for a specific length of time, that any extension of the break is contrary to the employer's rules, and any extension of the break will be punished.


    Bona fide meal periods (typically lasting at least 30 minutes), serve a different purpose than coffee or snack breaks and, thus, are not work time and are not compensable.



  • Reply 102 of 291
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    zoetmb wrote: »
    There's no such law.   It might be a union agreement, but it's not a law.  And according to this, employers do not have to compensate employees for meal time (I thought that they did), although most do.

    Here's the Department of Labor regulation:


    Check state labor laws, in NYC companies are forced to give a 30 minute break for every 4 hours of work.
  • Reply 103 of 291
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    jblongz wrote: »
    They should be compensated for any extra time on work premises while under the authority of the employer.  Doing a search is work...work = compensation.  This is a shame for a company who's products I enjoy.
    The option to take a bag or whatever along is totally up to the employee. Frankly any "bag" that takes more than a minute to search should be used to whack the employee over the head. Going to work is well work, not a tropical vacation.
  • Reply 104 of 291
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    dasanman69 wrote: »
    Check state labor laws, in NYC companies are forced to give a 30 minute break for every 4 hours of work.

    Actually in New York it is an hour for lunch. There is no specific requirement for a break.
  • Reply 105 of 291
    pendergastpendergast Posts: 1,358member
    zoetmb wrote: »
    There's no such law.   It might be a union agreement, but it's not a law.  And according to this, employers do not have to compensate employees for meal time (I thought that they did), although most do.

    Here's the Department of Labor regulation:


    Many states have laws regarding paid breaks. In my state, we're required to provide a paid 15 minute break for every 4 hours worked, in addition to an unpaid 30 minute meal break.
  • Reply 106 of 291
    pendergastpendergast Posts: 1,358member
    gazoobee wrote: »
    Your an idiot.  It has nothing to do with civil rights.  People have bags.  Most people have bags.  Students especially have bags.  The idea that people should not bring their bags to work is as faulty as arguing that they should all wear clothes without pockets.  

    I can pretty much guarantee that everyone making this stupid stupid argument about bags is some kind of old dude with a car that only has his keys and his overstuffed wallet to carry.  

    Again.  Most people carry a bag of some kind.  

    You have a bias toward people without cars, based on your other comments. So obviously you think the majority of people carry bags.

    I rarely ever carry a bag.

    And lots of people have cars.
  • Reply 107 of 291
    pendergastpendergast Posts: 1,358member
    Do these people have documentation of how much time was being "wasted"? It sounds like an exaggeration.

    Most other retail stores have similar bag checks. Not just Apple.
  • Reply 108 of 291
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,503member
    ``At the end of a shift, as well as when clocking out to leave for a meal break, Apple's hourly retail employees must submit to "personal package and bag searches," during which the employees are off-the-clock. The complaint notes that these checks are "significant, integral, indispensable... and done solely for Apple's benefit to prevent employee pilferage."


    Boo hoo. You're in retail. Grow up. People steal reliably. It's retail. Don't work in it if it offends you, or better yet? Don't carry in a bag. Just bring your ID and a credit-card for lunch.
  • Reply 109 of 291
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    gazoobee wrote: »
    Your an idiot.  It has nothing to do with civil rights.  People have bags.  Most people have bags.  Students especially have bags.  The idea that people should not bring their bags to work is as faulty as arguing that they should all wear clothes without pockets.  
    It is an option that is entirely up to the employee.
    I can pretty much guarantee that everyone making this stupid stupid argument about bags is some kind of old dude with a car that only has his keys and his overstuffed wallet to carry.  
    Well ok you got me!????????????????????????

    But seriously you really don't know what your are talking about. I work in a very large plant and seldom see people carrying bags in and out. Being a highly regulated environment, with clean rooms, air locks and etcetera there is a lot of good reason to leave your junk at home. Even then some employees do exercise the option to bring in junk and store it in their lockers.
    Again.  Most people carry a bag of some kind.  
    Hardly. Hell I know a few dykes that never carry a bag. You can't make a generalized statements about a persons sex or form of employment. For example a dyke going to knight school may have a giant laptop back pack with her on a regular schedule.

    A company like mine can reserve the right to search bags but here is the thing, the only time the could do so and make it legal is to do the search after you clock out. After all it is no different than shop lifting, if the store wants a shop lifting case to stick they have to grab you as you leave the store with unpaid goods. Otherwise there is always the plausible argument that the person intended to pay for the item when they leave. Since the company is effectively trying to prevent shop lifting the employee realistically has to be off the clock.
  • Reply 110 of 291
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post



    Again, that's just wrong. image


     


    You obviously profound unfamiliarity with the female gender explains a lot.

  • Reply 111 of 291
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    cnocbui wrote: »
    You obviously profound unfamiliarity with the female gender explains a lot.

    And yet not a single one of you can prove that people actually carry bags, much less that they are somehow magically forced to carry said bags into their place of employment. All you can do is bandy insults and ludicrous statements about the pockets on women's pants.

    This. Case. Has. No. Hope.
  • Reply 112 of 291
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    zoetmb wrote: »
    There's no such law.   It might be a union agreement, but it's not a law.  And according to this, employers do not have to compensate employees for meal time (I thought that they did), although most do.

    Here's the Department of Labor regulation:


    You're right - it's not a Federal law, but a large number of states require it. So if they're really taking 10-15 minutes out of the employee's break time both before and after break, they'd be in violation of state laws.

    Since prosecution under state laws is a criminal matter and they wouldn't have to hire attorneys, my point remains. If Apple was really doing this, why haven't they filed a criminal complaint?

    It just doesn't ring true:
    1. No complaint about insufficient time for lunch.
    2. The only people complaining are FORMER employees.
    3. We never heard anything about it while they were working.
    4. There's no way it takes 10-15 minutes to search a bag. I used to have to do it for retail employees and it takes about 15 seconds.
  • Reply 113 of 291
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    You are going to great lengths to twist logic around here.

    gazoobee wrote: »
    Wow.  You are totally wrong on all three points.  Also, you appear to actually be Adolf Hitler.  
    The insanity of your statement is beyond compare. This isn't about hitler.
    1) People have bags. This is just reality. It's unreasonable to suggest that people not arrive at work with bags or leave their bags at home.  
    The only thing they are doing here is searching bags. The option to bring in a bag is entirely up to the employee.
    2) The employees aren't the "cause" of the searches.  Ask them.  They will certainly say that they would prefer not to be searched on balance. 
    Bull crap, employees with sticky fingers are the only reason such policies are enacted. Sure it is a problem for some people to be searched but a rational person would change behavior to minimize the problem.
    3) Again, people have bags.  It's unreasonable to go for a day without your bag because some Nazi at your job says so. 

    It happens all the time in many industries. It isn't about being a Nazi. There are many reasons for heavy regulation of the work environment. For example the pharmaceutical industry can be extremely strict about what enters the work place. Even things like makeup on woman can be made illegal.
  • Reply 114 of 291
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member
    hawkblade wrote: »
    "Former retail employees"... repeat Former. Not current, former.

    I do not take stock in former employee's "suit".

    Seriously. Where were they when they were working for Apple in these horrid and illegal conditions for months etc.
  • Reply 115 of 291
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member
    Work? They aren't working, they are standing there getting their bags checked. Furthermore, how ridiculous would Apple look if they went after employees that were not productive 100% of the time to dock their pay. Oh boy, I'm sure the world would be after them. 

    Some forms of not productive can get you fired. Like making personal phone calls or texting when you aren't on your paid break.
  • Reply 116 of 291
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    zoetmb wrote: »
    Why don't we throw out all minimum wage and worker safety laws while we're at it.  After all, if the workers don't like it they can quit and get a job somewhere else. It's very easy for someone who gets paid properly to put down workers who may not be.
    In many cases the best possible outcome for these sorts of cases, score both the employer and employee is for the employee to quit.
    The real question here is whether the security check really takes that long or whether that was a once in a while extreme case.   The other issue is why is it necessary at all?   Doesn't everything in the store have security tags on it?   Won't the security buzzer ring if an employee attempts to leave with product?    Don't they already have security cameras which would detail if an employee stole product (or cash from the register)?      And do they have so little trust in their own employees?     
    Employees are the biggest concern most large companies have. There is no way to get an idealize mix of ultra employees. It only takes one idiot to do a company a lot of harm.
    Furthermore, with the possible exception of the geniuses, if the pay reports are accurate, they stink.  If you're a part-time student and/or living with your parents, fine..it's extra cash.    But if this is how you make your living, you can't live on it in any major city in this country.  Considering that Apple is one of the most profitable companies in the U.S., they should be the leaders in terms of providing decent pay to their workers.     $15 an hour is about $30K per year.   Back before 1986, the lowest I could pay any knowledge worker in a corporate environment was $31K.    The official inflation rate since then would make $31K $66,000 in 2013 dollars, which works out to $33 an hour.   
    Retail employees are well retail, there is no rational excuse to turn them into high income workers. The market decides what is suitable.

    Based on the minimum wage in 1970 and adjusting for inflation, the minimum wage should be $11.08 per hour.   You'd think Apple could at least pay that. 
    Interesting many of the local stores in my area are actually advertising that wage rate for store clerks.
    Having said that, the workers should be careful what they wish for.   Apple could start paying for the bag search time, but then cut back every employee's hours by an hour a week.   So while the workers will be paid for that time, they'll be no further ahead.  

    With ObamaCare coming they may have no choice but to make all their retail employees part time. Sad if it comes true.
  • Reply 117 of 291
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Again, this is why the American work force is junk! You don't mind taking 15 minute breaks every three hours of doing nothing, but NO WAY should I give back 5 minutes for a bad check! 
    It isn't so much giving back but a consideration of what legal options Apple has. The reality is if the employee is on the clock then he could easily say that he was going to pay for the items just like the common shoplifter. By clocking out the employee is making a definite action to leave the shop.
    Stupid Americans! And we have a government we deserve and an economy we deserve! 

    Incredibly stupid. Sooner or later a revolution will come to this country. Much of this leftist infra structure will be demolished. Our economy has a high probability of going the same direction as much of Europe with massive stagnation, little investment and high taxes to placate the lazy.

    It won't be pretty but the welfare state has failed everywhere it has been implemented.
  • Reply 118 of 291
    pendergastpendergast Posts: 1,358member
    charlituna wrote: »
    Some forms of not productive can get you fired. Like making personal phone calls or texting when you aren't on your paid break.

    How about using the bathroom while punched in? Most people I know do that.

    If these people are going to complain, they should give Apple back the money they were paid for defecating.
  • Reply 119 of 291


    The sense of entitlement here is...well, just plain scary.  But I live in a "right to work" state, so some of this is almost foreign - the idea that the individual gets to tell the employer how to run their business.  I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying your perspective is unsettling to me.  Your entitled to your beliefs, just don't bring them to my house.  Sometimes I really appreciate the federal system - the individual states are able to offer different choices.

  • Reply 120 of 291
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,397member
    cnocbui wrote: »
    You obviously profound unfamiliarity with the female gender explains a lot.

    And yet not a single one of you can prove that people actually carry bags, much less that they are somehow magically forced to carry said bags into their place of employment. All you can do is bandy insults and ludicrous statements about the pockets on women's pants.

    This. Case. Has. No. Hope.

    Groan.

    He said 'female'. Not 'person'. You're beginning sound a tad creepy, as though you've never really got out of your house....
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