Apple retail workers file class action suit claiming lost wages over bag searches

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  • Reply 81 of 291
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,397member
    If they're compensated/promoted on the basis of your productivity, then your point is not terribly relevant.

    On the basis of my productivity? I'm not following your statement, sorry. :( 

    Poor wording on my part.

    I meant "their" productivity.
  • Reply 82 of 291
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by asdasd View Post





    For my part I doubt the fifteen minutes per employee per day. Thats the average per employee indicating searches are on average half an hour per day. Sounds like a bogus suit.




    I have my doubts too, in which case Apple should have no problem doing the search on company time, hmmmmm?

  • Reply 83 of 291
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    Maybe Apple should hold back pay for when they are gossiping with each other when on the clock.

    What security check takes 10 minutes? Unless your bag is the size of a car, it should not take that long.
  • Reply 84 of 291
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,652member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jumper View Post



    Gee .... if I didn't like something about my job I'd quit and get a job some place else. Hope these nit-wits lose and they have to pay legal fees to Apple.

     


    Why don't we throw out all minimum wage and worker safety laws while we're at it.  After all, if the workers don't like it they can quit and get a job somewhere else. It's very easy for someone who gets paid properly to put down workers who may not be.


     


    The real question here is whether the security check really takes that long or whether that was a once in a while extreme case.   The other issue is why is it necessary at all?   Doesn't everything in the store have security tags on it?   Won't the security buzzer ring if an employee attempts to leave with product?    Don't they already have security cameras which would detail if an employee stole product (or cash from the register)?      And do they have so little trust in their own employees?     


     


    Furthermore, with the possible exception of the geniuses, if the pay reports are accurate, they stink.  If you're a part-time student and/or living with your parents, fine..it's extra cash.    But if this is how you make your living, you can't live on it in any major city in this country.  Considering that Apple is one of the most profitable companies in the U.S., they should be the leaders in terms of providing decent pay to their workers.     $15 an hour is about $30K per year.   Back before 1986, the lowest I could pay any knowledge worker in a corporate environment was $31K.    The official inflation rate since then would make $31K $66,000 in 2013 dollars, which works out to $33 an hour.   


     


    Based on the minimum wage in 1970 and adjusting for inflation, the minimum wage should be $11.08 per hour.   You'd think Apple could at least pay that. 


     


    Having said that, the workers should be careful what they wish for.   Apple could start paying for the bag search time, but then cut back every employee's hours by an hour a week.   So while the workers will be paid for that time, they'll be no further ahead.  

  • Reply 85 of 291
    denobindenobin Posts: 46member
    After spending a good part of my youth in retail, starting in the stockroom and working my way into management, I will assure you, NO ONE takes more thank 3 minutes to check bags. Unless the managers made themselves unavailable, which I doubt. Everyone checked backs after closing, and employees were clocked out while I locked the store. No one at all complained. 

    Furthermore, I would bet these employees are the same ones stealing time from the company by not being productive 100% of the time they are there, spending a 3rd of their time doing nothing. 

    Companies are forced to give 15 minute breaks to people not doing much work. 

    This is no more than America turning into the French, and we see what that gets you. 

    Idle time is the nature of retail. Sometimes it's busy, other times not. When not, there are usually plenty of things to do, but sometimes there are not. Employees are compensated based on their time, busy or not. It's disingenuous to claim that they should trade their "idle time" for a mandatory check. The manager is derelict if his employees are insufficiently busy; he should be tasking them or reduce staff levels. If the claims are true, then the claimants should prevail.
    I challenge any of you who still think the employees are being cry babies to voluntarily calculate how much time you waste during the day and give back that portion of your wages or salary. Go ahead, I'll wait...
    Didn't think so.
  • Reply 86 of 291
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post





    That's humorous. The world doesn't revolve around the individual. I'm right.


     


    Welcome, comrade.

  • Reply 87 of 291
    rainrain Posts: 538member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by diplication View Post


    I missed it in the Bill of Rights where employees have a civil right to bring a bag to work.  If there is no such right, then what's the problem.  If you don't want your employer to waste your time, then don't bring a bag to work.  It's that simple.



     


    Right on brotha... chicks can just tape tampons to their head right...


    BAGS SUCK!


    Down with bags and their lack of mention in the Bill of Rights...


     


    Hey man, you wanna meet up and have a bag burning?


    The only good bag is a dead bag.


    Next thing you know, the 'Bag' gunna want to vote... and have rights n' shit...


     


    image

  • Reply 88 of 291
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    2) A bag, while not crucial, is a basic need in this line of work. They don't have desks or anything. When I first started we didn't even have lockers. How many people only go to work carrying what they have in their pockets? You want your wallet in your pants when the store is packed with 200 people? No change of clothes, no food, no drink, no shoes, no writing utensils, no business cards, no envelope openers? Nothing to read or entertain yourself at lunch? I like how people suddenly become anti-bag when it's put up against the almighty Apple.

    I bring my lunch in a plastic bag; my wallet, phone, keys are carried in my pocket.

    Are you telling me Apple doesn't have pens or envelope openers (use your finger)?

    How many hourly workers require business cards?

    You have your phone to entertain yourself. In addition, you can carry a book with you. No bag required.

    Apple is a store, not a gym: leave your clothes in your car.
  • Reply 89 of 291
    blitz1blitz1 Posts: 421member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    You lose all credibility when you post tripe like this.



    You should read some most of his other jokes posts

  • Reply 90 of 291
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    denobin wrote: »

    I challenge any of you who still think the employees are being cry babies to voluntarily calculate how much time you waste during the day and give back that portion of your wages or salary. Go ahead, I'll wait...
    Didn't think so. Hypocrites, every one of you.

    But none of us are suing our employers for time lost. In lots of people's minds, it evens out in the end. 5 minutes spent in security check = 5 min chatting about Walking Dead when on the clock.
  • Reply 91 of 291
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,652member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Retrogusto View Post


    This whole thing is pretty silly, but somehow I feel compelled to comment. I am on salary, but I have a contract that states our official company hours. Almost nobody in the company (500+ employees in New York) works the actual hours, and most people work a lot more, certainly no "overtime" compensation. That's pretty normal in New York, and probably a lot of other places.


     


     



     


    Apples and oranges.   You're not paid by the hour.   You're paid a guaranteed (if they don't fire you) annual salary and you get paid vacation, sick time, personal days, holidays, etc.    And by the way, companies who force overtime on workers who are not truly "exempt" (executives/managers who have people reporting to them) or fall into a category called "highly compensated" are breaking the law.   Technically, they are supposed to be paid overtime.    


     


    Quote:




    If the employees are locked into a long-term contract with penalties if they breach that contract, it would be unfair if they didn't know the terms of their employment, but I don't think that's the case here. If they weren't told ahead of time, they probably figured out after about one day that bringing a bag means that they will have to wait to be searched, on their own time. So they have choices: bring the bag, be searched and deal with it, or don't bring the bag. If we're going to be super petty, should the people who choose to bring bags get to work less productive time for the same pay, so they won't have to be searched on their own time? 


     






    These are hourly positions and many are part-time.   It's not unreasonable to assume that many employees are students who need to carry bags or have other reasons for carrying bags, especially women.   


     


     


     


    Quote:


    My manager wants us at our seats at 9:30, but sometimes the elevator takes FOREVER to come (and it's 42 floors, so it's still faster to wait). Once I'm in the office building, should I have to wait for the elevator on my own time? (Unfortunately, I think the answer is yes.)



    While it's usually not the case, I think one SHOULD be compensated for elevator time.   I'm a consultant and I bill my clients from the second I walk into their building.   It's not my fault if they took space in a building with lousy elevator service.   On the other hand, I don't generally nickel and dime them to death, so if I get a few emails when I'm not there and they don't require any research to respond to and the responses are short, I don't bill them for that time.   And perhaps more importantly, I'm well compensated.   When you get paid spit, as the Apple retail employees do, every second that you're not earning feels like an insult and being forced to clock out before your bag is checked is simply petty.    

  • Reply 92 of 291
    gazoobeegazoobee Posts: 3,754member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post





    None of these cases are valid. Ladies do not "need" bags.

    If I'm the reason it's happening, like they are, I have to be okay with it.

    "Wow, if my time is really that important, I should probably stop bringing my bag."


     


    Wow.  You are totally wrong on all three points.  Also, you appear to actually be Adolf Hitler.  


     


    1) People have bags. This is just reality. It's unreasonable to suggest that people not arrive at work with bags or leave their bags at home.  


    2) The employees aren't the "cause" of the searches.  Ask them.  They will certainly say that they would prefer not to be searched on balance. 


    3) Again, people have bags.  It's unreasonable to go for a day without your bag because some Nazi at your job says so. 

  • Reply 93 of 291
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    blitz1 wrote:
    [stupidity]

    So neither of you has any manner of backing for your statement (and lack thereof)?
    gazoobee wrote: »
    1) People have bags. This is just reality. It's unreasonable to suggest that people not arrive at work with bags or leave their bags at home.

    … Or they could not take them to work if they don't want them searched. That's sort of the point here, isn't it?
     
    2) The employees aren't the "cause" of the searches.

    Try working at the Federal Reserve and deciding you get to take your spare change into the building every day and not be searched. It's ludicrous. The item is not required for the job, therefore there is no reason to expect to be paid while your employer goes out of his way to allow you to bring the item to your job.
    They will certainly say that they would prefer not to be searched on balance.

    Then they can not bring their bags. Seems fairly straightforward. Maybe don't bring your guns to the airport if you don't want to be taken aside and questioned when going through security.
    3) Again, people have bags.  It's unreasonable to go for a day without your bag because some Nazi at your job says so. 

    … Or they can not bring their bags in to work. Godwin's Law says you lose, in addition to that just being a terrible analogy in the first place.
  • Reply 94 of 291
    gazoobeegazoobee Posts: 3,754member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by diplication View Post


    I missed it in the Bill of Rights where employees have a civil right to bring a bag to work.  If there is no such right, then what's the problem.  If you don't want your employer to waste your time, then don't bring a bag to work.  It's that simple.  Sure it's more convenient for you to bring a bag, but it's not your employer's responsibility to make work convenient for you.  Sure it's nice, but they shouldn't be required to do so. 



     


    Your an idiot.  It has nothing to do with civil rights.  People have bags.  Most people have bags.  Students especially have bags.  The idea that people should not bring their bags to work is as faulty as arguing that they should all wear clothes without pockets.  


     


    I can pretty much guarantee that everyone making this stupid stupid argument about bags is some kind of old dude with a car that only has his keys and his overstuffed wallet to carry.  


     


    Again.  Most people carry a bag of some kind.  

  • Reply 95 of 291
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    So neither of you has any manner of backing for your statement (and lack thereof)?

    Sorry TS, women need bags. Women pants rarely have pockets. Women have purses, keys, makeup, meds, woman products, etc.
  • Reply 96 of 291
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    gazoobee wrote: »
    Again.  Most people carry a bag of some kind.  

    Enjoy your lies and insults.
    jungmark wrote: »
    Sorry TS, women need bags. Women pants rarely have pockets. Women have purses, keys, makeup, meds, woman products, etc.

    Again, that's just wrong. :???:
  • Reply 97 of 291
    gazoobeegazoobee Posts: 3,754member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post


     


    where is the thumbs down button?! 


     


    Once more in America, we make up hardship and the sue for compensation! 



     


    This has nothing to do with America.  This is basic law.  The definition of a job is that you are required to be somewhere for a certain amount of time and they pay you for it.  If they require you to be there, for whatever purpose then they should pay you.  


     


    The only alternative is to pass a rule saying no bags, but that's so categorically ridiculous that only old grumps like Talest Skil would even dare to argue it. 

  • Reply 98 of 291
    macslutmacslut Posts: 514member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post


     


    After spending a good part of my youth in retail, starting in the stockroom and working my way into management, I will assure you, NO ONE takes more thank 3 minutes to check bags. Unless the managers made themselves unavailable, which I doubt. Everyone checked backs after closing, and employees were clocked out while I locked the store. No one at all complained.



     


    Right, so you agree that the amount of time these people have claimed to have had to wait was unreasonable.    We have someone from Costco claiming 1 minute here, and you claiming no more than 3 minutes.  When I worked in retail, the amount of times at various locations was totally negligible.  However, as I stated over and over, IF THE CLAIM IS TRUE, then the wait the employees had to go through without compensation is unreasonable and Apple should either fix the amount of time the employees have to wait or pay them for waiting. 


     


    Quote:


    Furthermore, I would bet these employees are the same ones stealing time from the company by not being productive 100% of the time they are there, spending a 3rd of their time doing nothing.



     


    That has nothing to do with the lawsuit.  If the employees are not being productive, management should fire them, or not schedule them to be on the job when it's too slow for them to be productive.  You don't hire and schedule employees and then because you over-scheduled decide not to pay them for the time they were scheduled and at the work location ready to work.


     


    Quote:


     


    Companies are forced to give 15 minute breaks to people not doing much work.




     


    Yes, again, there are laws that we've decided as a society are needed to benefit workers in this country.  Argue for changing the law if you don't like things like people being able to take a lunch break at work, but the law is what it is, and if Apple was in fact preventing people from having their due break time due to excessive and unreasonable wait periods, then the lawsuit has merit.


     


     


    Quote:


    This is no more than America turning into the French, and we see what that gets you.



     


    This is no turning of anything.  These laws were established a long time ago.

  • Reply 99 of 291
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,652member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post


     


    For a bunch of people who stand around all day, when not taking several 15 minute break and a lunch, talking, they really have it hard don't they? 



     


    That's not the point.   When you work for a company, the question is, "is it my time or your time?"    If I work for a company I expect to be paid for all the time that I'm there.  It's not my fault if the store isn't busy and the store management doesn't give me something else to do (like arranging stock, dusting, training, etc.)  I'm now a consultant and when I travel for my clients, they have to pay my regular rate, because it's not my time.   


     


    If they do get 15 minute breaks, it was part of the deal.    A number of people here have claimed that, but do they for sure?      


     


    Many decades ago, I worked in retail selling audio.   The manager had quit to take a better job with a distributor.   The assistant manager was sent to become manager of another branch.   As a result, our sales floor was incredibly busy.    I didn't take lunch.   I did not expect to be paid for that hour but I did it "for the team" (and I still would have made commissions on any sales during that hour, if any).     They eventually fired me and that was one of the reasons:  because I didn't take lunch that day, since taking lunch was part of the union contract.   So you can't win.   

  • Reply 100 of 291
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member

    Again, that's just wrong. :???:

    I don't know how that's wrong.
    gazoobee wrote: »
    This has nothing to do with America.  This is basic law.  The definition of a job is that you are required to be somewhere for a certain amount of time and they pay you for it.  If they require you to be there, for whatever purpose then they should pay you.  

    The definition of a job also requires working when on the clock. No socializing, texting, personal phone calls, etc. again it all evens out in the end, that's why the lawsuit is junk.
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