There is no possible way an 32GB iPhone 5c should cost $350 more than a 32GB iPod touch - radios, antennas and a proximity sensor don't cost that much. Really the 5c should cost the same, or less, than an iPad mini with cellular, but no Apple wants an additional $90.
Absolutely, totally wrong.
First, you don't have any idea what the costs are.
More importantly, selling prices are not based on cost-they're based on what the market will pay. Apple sets the price in such a way as to maximize its profitability. In order to do so, they have to consider:
- Manufacturing cost
- Price elasticity (that is, how many units could they sell at each price level)
- Market positioning
- Likely competitive response
- Other factors
The fact that you think price should be based on manufacturing cost is sure proof that you don't know what you're talking about. Apple knows what they're doing. You don't.
The name 5C doesn't help Apple's cause. This would have been a good time to drop naming conventions, and just bring out 2 new phones with no prior baggage. By connecting the 5C to the 5 at the keynote, most of us are thinking "I would have rather had the 5 at the same price." It makes Apple look like a penny pinching marketing company and not an engineering tech company.
What's the difference, rename it and we'd still know its just a repackaged iPhone 5, naming 5C is just straight forward, the fact is, 5s has better insides for a little more, everybody knows this. If there were no 5c and Apple simply sold iPhone 5 with $100 off, how well do you think it will sell after the 5s announcement? Same or worse?
There is no possible way an 32GB iPhone 5c should cost $350 more than a 32GB iPod touch - radios, antennas and a proximity sensor don't cost that much. Really the 5c should cost the same, or less, than an iPad mini with cellular, but no Apple wants an additional $90.
Wow, I didn't even think of that.
Then when you add in the 5C has a cheaper manufacturing process than the iPod Touch's anodized aluminum plus chamfered edge design, and it becomes that much more ridiculous.
People saying the 5C couldn't have been cheaper than it is have their heads up their asses so far they can't even see the light of day.
First, you don't have any idea what the costs are.
More importantly, selling prices are not based on cost-they're based on what the market will pay. Apple sets the price in such a way as to maximize its profitability. In order to do so, they have to consider:
- Manufacturing cost
- Price elasticity (that is, how many units could they sell at each price level)
- Market positioning
- Likely competitive response
- Other factors
The fact that you think price should be based on manufacturing cost is sure proof that you don't know what you're talking about. Apple knows what they're doing. You don't.
And you're acting like Apple cannot make any mistakes on any of the above.
What's the difference, rename it and we'd still know its just a repackaged iPhone 5, naming 5C is just straight forward, the fact is, 5s has better insides for a little more, everybody knows this. If there were no 5c and Apple simply sold iPhone 5 with $100 off, how well do you think it will sell after the 5s announcement? Same or worse?
The 5C will do well in the US where I believe 80% of phones are sold on contract. Comments like this convince me of that:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanTiger
You have WalMart and TMobile offering the 16GB 5C for $79. So you now get last year's model which is a great phone, but it has a colorful back for dirt cheap. And some people think it's not going to sell.
/blank stare/
But outside of the US, I can't see the 5C doing well after the 5S launch.
My earlier point was, connecting the "5C" to the "5" was a bad idea because now the general public knows it's a repackaged iPhone 5. If Apple marketed it as a completely new phone without mentioning it had iPhone 5 internals that would have helped general perception. Apple didn't market the iPad Mini as an iPad 2 in a smaller package although that's all it was. Sometimes marketing can make a huge difference.
Yes that's a troll-ish question, but I'm serious. I feel if Steve were to make a "5C" he would start from the ground up to develop the best mid-tier phone he could. He would probably reimagine the whole product and not just throw last years phone in a plastic case and sell it for the same price it would normally be sold for.
The Mac Mini was completely different from the PowerMac, the iPod Mini/Nano were completely different from the iPod. Steve didn't just slap those respective products in cheaper enclosures and hoped to increase margins convincing people they were "new" products.
Ugh. I don't dislike the 5C. It looks great, but I'm not sure if the philosophy that brought us the 5C is the type that has driven Apple forward the past 2 decades.
/rant
Not more of this WWSD crap. :rolleyes: And what exactly would this from the ground up mid tier phone have that the colored iPhone doesn't have? Sure Steve probably would have done a better job selling it as something awesome and magical. But at the end of the day it's a phone. Not a lot of ways to re imagine it, at least from a hardware look and feel perspective. The problem with the colored iPhone is one thing: too expensive. If it was $100 cheaper a lot of people would have a different feeling about it.
Have you not read any of my other posts in this thread? I think Apple botched this in many ways. Calling it the 5C instead of something simple like iPhone color. Constant references to the 5. Keeping the 4S around rather than making the iPhone color the lower price option. As I said before I don't think the phone is the problem. I think it's a great phone. The marketing, positioning and pricing is the problem. Get rid of the 4S and make iPhone color cheaper off contract.
Because Apple actually thinks about profit margins. You act like they have no plan here. Once they get production ramped up and economies of scale kick in, the 5C can become the low price option in their lineup. But not right now. The bulk of the cost for this phone is the screen and internals and those didn't change from the iPhone 5.
Apple follows a Best - Better - Good lineup. For now that is 5S - 5C - 4S. Probably in the first half of next year you're going to see a larger screen iPhone. Somewhere around 4.8 to 5 inches. Call it the iPhone 6 or iPhone Plus. At that point, the 5S will become the mid-tier option and the 5C becomes the cheapest version. And when that happens, you'll know it happened because they could drop the price down to cheapest for the 5C and maintain reasonable profit on it.
This is only a mistake to people whose expectations are out of whack or those who worship at the altar of market share over profit.
Very poor pre-sale in HK and China. Still able to order after shop opens for 80 minutes.
It used to sold out within 8 minutes or even less
Yeah, it couldn't possibly be that Apple has improved its pre-order process and done a better job of anticipating demand and having enough stock. *eyeroll*
But outside of the US, I can't see the 5C doing well after the 5S launch.
My earlier point was, connecting the "5C" to the "5" was a bad idea because now the general public knows it's a repackaged iPhone 5. If Apple marketed it as a completely new phone without mentioning it had iPhone 5 internals that would have helped general perception. Apple didn't market the iPad Mini as an iPad 2 in a smaller package although that's all it was. Sometimes marketing can make a huge difference.
Eh, I think you're overthinking it. It can also convey that it's not an inferior phone internally. They didn't slap a cheap processor, lesser camera and less RAM into it to make it the mid-tier model.
Because, dumbass, Apple actually thinks about profit margins. You act like they have no plan here. Once they get production ramped up and economies of scale kick in, the 5C can become the low price option in their lineup. But not right now. The bulk of the cost for this phone is the screen and internals and those didn't change from the iPhone 5.
Apple follows a Best - Better - Good lineup. For now that is 5S - 5C - 4S. Probably in the first half of next year you're going to see a larger screen iPhone. Somewhere around 4.8 to 5 inches. Call it the iPhone 6 or iPhone Plus. At that point, the 5S will become the mid-tier option and the 5C becomes the cheapest version. And when that happens, you'll know it happened because they could drop the price down to cheapest for the 5C and maintain reasonable profit on it.
This is only a mistake to people whose expectations are out of whack or those who worship at the altar of market share over profit.
AAPL giving back all it's gains from yesterday as another firm (Jeffries) downgraded the stock this morning. That's 4 downgrades since the Tuesday announcement. If Apple's plan is so brilliant they certainly haven't sold many people on it.
One of the great mysteries about Apple - why can't they update their store without taking it down, like almost every other online retailer on the planet?
One of the great mysteries about Apple - why can't they update their store without taking it down, like almost every other online retailer on the planet?
Dumbass? Wow that's really classy. AAPL giving back all it's gains from yesterday as another firm (Jeffries) downgraded the stock this morning. That's 4 downgrades since the Tuesday announcement. If Apple's plan is so brilliant they certainly haven't sold many people on it.
The other mistake is worshiping at the altar of stock projections. These guys keep downing Apple's stock and Apple keeps making money like they have a printing facility for it.
And sorry about the "dumbass"...I just get weary of this thing almost every time Apple launches practically anything. Hedge fund guys say they're disappointed and downgrade, tech writers say Apple missed an opportunity, Apple forums get flooded with armchair CEOs telling everyone what Apple *should* have done instead and predicting sales to be off or impending doom. It's a replay of what they said last fall when the iPhone 5 was launched and just had a slightly larger screen and was thinner and lighter. "Not innovative enough." "What about 'phablets'?" "What about NFC?"
The other mistake is worshiping at the altar of stock projections.
Yeah, it's not like they've got real money and jobs riding on it or anything, unlike the credibility, knowledge, incentives, and analytical capabilities of some anonymous internet poster....
One of the great mysteries about Apple - why can't they update their store without taking it down, like almost every other online retailer on the planet?
This is a great question.
The only explanation is that it is some type of signaling device. Getting a little old at this point.
The other mistake is worshiping at the altar of stock projections. These guys keep downing Apple's stock and Apple keeps making money like they have a printing facility for it.
Just because they're making money today doesn't mean they will be tomorrow. Stupid business decisions kill companies all the time, and Apple's shrinking market share is not a reversing trend -- it's a trend that puts more pressure on them to make good decisions, which they are not doing.
Comments
Absolutely, totally wrong.
First, you don't have any idea what the costs are.
More importantly, selling prices are not based on cost-they're based on what the market will pay. Apple sets the price in such a way as to maximize its profitability. In order to do so, they have to consider:
- Manufacturing cost
- Price elasticity (that is, how many units could they sell at each price level)
- Market positioning
- Likely competitive response
- Other factors
The fact that you think price should be based on manufacturing cost is sure proof that you don't know what you're talking about. Apple knows what they're doing. You don't.
The name 5C doesn't help Apple's cause. This would have been a good time to drop naming conventions, and just bring out 2 new phones with no prior baggage. By connecting the 5C to the 5 at the keynote, most of us are thinking "I would have rather had the 5 at the same price." It makes Apple look like a penny pinching marketing company and not an engineering tech company.
What's the difference, rename it and we'd still know its just a repackaged iPhone 5, naming 5C is just straight forward, the fact is, 5s has better insides for a little more, everybody knows this. If there were no 5c and Apple simply sold iPhone 5 with $100 off, how well do you think it will sell after the 5s announcement? Same or worse?
There is no possible way an 32GB iPhone 5c should cost $350 more than a 32GB iPod touch - radios, antennas and a proximity sensor don't cost that much. Really the 5c should cost the same, or less, than an iPad mini with cellular, but no Apple wants an additional $90.
Wow, I didn't even think of that.
Then when you add in the 5C has a cheaper manufacturing process than the iPod Touch's anodized aluminum plus chamfered edge design, and it becomes that much more ridiculous.
People saying the 5C couldn't have been cheaper than it is have their heads up their asses so far they can't even see the light of day.
Absolutely, totally wrong.
First, you don't have any idea what the costs are.
More importantly, selling prices are not based on cost-they're based on what the market will pay. Apple sets the price in such a way as to maximize its profitability. In order to do so, they have to consider:
- Manufacturing cost
- Price elasticity (that is, how many units could they sell at each price level)
- Market positioning
- Likely competitive response
- Other factors
The fact that you think price should be based on manufacturing cost is sure proof that you don't know what you're talking about. Apple knows what they're doing. You don't.
And you're acting like Apple cannot make any mistakes on any of the above.
What's the difference, rename it and we'd still know its just a repackaged iPhone 5, naming 5C is just straight forward, the fact is, 5s has better insides for a little more, everybody knows this. If there were no 5c and Apple simply sold iPhone 5 with $100 off, how well do you think it will sell after the 5s announcement? Same or worse?
The 5C will do well in the US where I believe 80% of phones are sold on contract. Comments like this convince me of that:
You have WalMart and TMobile offering the 16GB 5C for $79. So you now get last year's model which is a great phone, but it has a colorful back for dirt cheap. And some people think it's not going to sell.
/blank stare/
But outside of the US, I can't see the 5C doing well after the 5S launch.
My earlier point was, connecting the "5C" to the "5" was a bad idea because now the general public knows it's a repackaged iPhone 5. If Apple marketed it as a completely new phone without mentioning it had iPhone 5 internals that would have helped general perception. Apple didn't market the iPad Mini as an iPad 2 in a smaller package although that's all it was. Sometimes marketing can make a huge difference.
It used to sold out within 8 minutes or even less
Have you not read any of my other posts in this thread? I think Apple botched this in many ways. Calling it the 5C instead of something simple like iPhone color. Constant references to the 5. Keeping the 4S around rather than making the iPhone color the lower price option. As I said before I don't think the phone is the problem. I think it's a great phone. The marketing, positioning and pricing is the problem. Get rid of the 4S and make iPhone color cheaper off contract.
Because Apple actually thinks about profit margins. You act like they have no plan here. Once they get production ramped up and economies of scale kick in, the 5C can become the low price option in their lineup. But not right now. The bulk of the cost for this phone is the screen and internals and those didn't change from the iPhone 5.
Apple follows a Best - Better - Good lineup. For now that is 5S - 5C - 4S. Probably in the first half of next year you're going to see a larger screen iPhone. Somewhere around 4.8 to 5 inches. Call it the iPhone 6 or iPhone Plus. At that point, the 5S will become the mid-tier option and the 5C becomes the cheapest version. And when that happens, you'll know it happened because they could drop the price down to cheapest for the 5C and maintain reasonable profit on it.
This is only a mistake to people whose expectations are out of whack or those who worship at the altar of market share over profit.
Does the Moto X or cheaper Lumia models have the latest and greatest specs?
No, but Lumia and Motorola and Samsung Galaxy always had some kind of plastic case. When you buy a Lumia you expect plastic!Very poor pre-sale in HK and China. Still able to order after shop opens for 80 minutes.
It used to sold out within 8 minutes or even less
Yeah, it couldn't possibly be that Apple has improved its pre-order process and done a better job of anticipating demand and having enough stock. *eyeroll*
But outside of the US, I can't see the 5C doing well after the 5S launch.
My earlier point was, connecting the "5C" to the "5" was a bad idea because now the general public knows it's a repackaged iPhone 5. If Apple marketed it as a completely new phone without mentioning it had iPhone 5 internals that would have helped general perception. Apple didn't market the iPad Mini as an iPad 2 in a smaller package although that's all it was. Sometimes marketing can make a huge difference.
Eh, I think you're overthinking it. It can also convey that it's not an inferior phone internally. They didn't slap a cheap processor, lesser camera and less RAM into it to make it the mid-tier model.
AAPL giving back all it's gains from yesterday as another firm (Jeffries) downgraded the stock this morning. That's 4 downgrades since the Tuesday announcement. If Apple's plan is so brilliant they certainly haven't sold many people on it.
One of the great mysteries about Apple - why can't they update their store without taking it down, like almost every other online retailer on the planet?
No. You're dead wrong. I agree with your assessment of the device but you are forgetting that people are generally idiots.
Sad but true...
One of the great mysteries about Apple - why can't they update their store without taking it down, like almost every other online retailer on the planet?
Because they want to build anticipation.
Dumbass? Wow that's really classy. AAPL giving back all it's gains from yesterday as another firm (Jeffries) downgraded the stock this morning. That's 4 downgrades since the Tuesday announcement. If Apple's plan is so brilliant they certainly haven't sold many people on it.
The other mistake is worshiping at the altar of stock projections. These guys keep downing Apple's stock and Apple keeps making money like they have a printing facility for it.
And sorry about the "dumbass"...I just get weary of this thing almost every time Apple launches practically anything. Hedge fund guys say they're disappointed and downgrade, tech writers say Apple missed an opportunity, Apple forums get flooded with armchair CEOs telling everyone what Apple *should* have done instead and predicting sales to be off or impending doom. It's a replay of what they said last fall when the iPhone 5 was launched and just had a slightly larger screen and was thinner and lighter. "Not innovative enough." "What about 'phablets'?" "What about NFC?"
...then Apple breaks another sales record.
The other mistake is worshiping at the altar of stock projections.
Yeah, it's not like they've got real money and jobs riding on it or anything, unlike the credibility, knowledge, incentives, and analytical capabilities of some anonymous internet poster....
One of the great mysteries about Apple - why can't they update their store without taking it down, like almost every other online retailer on the planet?
This is a great question.
The only explanation is that it is some type of signaling device. Getting a little old at this point.
The other mistake is worshiping at the altar of stock projections. These guys keep downing Apple's stock and Apple keeps making money like they have a printing facility for it.
Just because they're making money today doesn't mean they will be tomorrow. Stupid business decisions kill companies all the time, and Apple's shrinking market share is not a reversing trend -- it's a trend that puts more pressure on them to make good decisions, which they are not doing.