It's amazing how stupid people are. I mean, I have bad memory (that I maintain is medical), but these people are pretending like the last four years of iPhone pricing never happened.
I don't understand why we put up with it.
I don't get the point of the colored iPhone if Apple expects it to be so expensive off contract. Other than bigger profit margins. But isn't Apple supposed to be a product company, not a profit margin company? Who exactly is Apple targeting with this product?
First, you don't have any idea what the costs are.
More importantly, selling prices are not based on cost-they're based on what the market will pay. Apple sets the price in such a way as to maximize its profitability. In order to do so, they have to consider:
- Manufacturing cost
- Price elasticity (that is, how many units could they sell at each price level)
- Market positioning
- Likely competitive response
- Other factors
The fact that you think price should be based on manufacturing cost is sure proof that you don't know what you're talking about. Apple knows what they're doing. You don't.
It's common knowledge that the iPhone usually has the highest margin of any of Apple's products, so he's probably not totally wrong, though I agree that boiling it down to manufacturing cost is overly simplistic.
To add to your list, the licensing to use cellular and 3G/4G radios likely costs more than the parts.
I don't get the point of the colored iPhone if Apple expects it to be so expensive off contract. Other than bigger profit margins. But isn't Apple supposed to be a product company, not a profit margin company? Who exactly is Apple targeting with this product?
Good question.
Must be young females. It's a big market... but not that big.
I think the more concerning issue is not selling the 5S on line. That is going to hurts sales. Sure, it will make for some great video as people who would normally buy online go to stores (lines), but there will also be a large percentage of online shoppers that simply dont buy the phone. Heck, in a lot of countries people don live anywhere near a brick and mortar store. I assume they will eventually sell online, but I would think the release date would be a good time to sell as many as possible.
I think this only confirms the supply constraints they are under. For a guy who allegedly was a supply expert Cook is 0-2 on release dates when it comes to supply.
It's not a conspiracy and it's not just Apple they do it to. Jim Cramer and others have all but admitted to such shenanigans. If you really thing there's no incentive to push a stock price down, buy lower and sell high I don't know what to tell you.
Is there an incentive in some portion of the market push stocks down? You bet. That's what short-sellers live on. A vast majority of equity analysts -- the ones whose names are trotted out here -- and the institutions they work for have little or nothing to do with that crowd.
If you think Jim Cramer matters for stock prices, you do need a tinfoil hat.
Very poor pre-sale in HK and China. Still able to order after shop opens for 80 minutes.
It used to sold out within 8 minutes or even less
What are you saying? When has last years cheaper model ever sold out in 8 min? Too funny. This is proof you place higher sales expectations on 5c then you would on the 5 for the same price. This says a lot.
What are you saying? When has last years cheaper model ever sold out in 8 min? Too funny. This is proof you place higher sales expectations on 5c then you would on the 5 for the same price. This says a lot.
Nonsense. Get your facts straight. They've not been predicting 'impending doom.' The average analyst price forecast for AAPL has been quite substantially above the market price in the past year, when the stock tumbled from $700 to $400 and back up to $500.
Furthermore, for the past couple of years (certainly, at least, since Jobs died), the analysts have been spreading doom and gloom about Apple. No more innovation. Saturated market. Losing share. Android eating their lunch. On and on and on. While the price predictions haven't always reflected that, the published reports on Apple have been uniformly negative for quite a while - with no rational reason.
It's common knowledge that the iPhone usually has the highest margin of any of Apple's products, so he's probably not totally wrong, though I agree that boiling it down to manufacturing cost is overly simplistic.
To add to your list, the licensing to use cellular and 3G/4G radios likely costs more than the parts.
Yes it was simplistic. I do have some sort of life compared so others on here so I'm not going to waste my time going into every last detail, and given the vast cost difference there isn't really any need to so to see that Apple are making huge margins on these new phones and could easily have priced them lower if they choose to do so.
The reason why I compared the price to the iPad mini cellular was that it would have most, if not all, of those licensing costs. Yet the 5c is quite a bit more expensive, even with higher material costs on the iPad with the larger more expensive battery, case, glass etc.
Personally I think the 5c pricing is a mistake. They could have used it to enter the mid tier smartphone market whilst keeping margins high. Instead it is priced as a high end phone - £479 for the 16GB model here in the UK. Clearly the US market is very different but in the UK there are more and more people that are not willing to pay that kind of money for a phone anymore - the market is rapidly becoming commoditised with cheaper alternatives available that are 'good enough'.
On contract prices are also too high. Whilst the up front cost may be ok, the monthly charge is loaded by the carrier with extra the repayment cost of the phone - monthly costs are higher for iPhone contracts compared to others here in the UK. For example:
iPhone 5c - £49 up front + £41 per month
HTC one - £29 up front + £36 per month
Samsung S4 - £49 up front + £37 per month
as you can see TCO for the 5c is more and really it is the 5s that should be compared to the S4 and HTC One not last years iPhone 5 in a cheaper case.
With a more competitive price I would have looked at a 5c for my daughter but not at that price. Last year I purchased a used iPhone 4 for £150 and use a £7.50 per month pay as you go SIM. I'll keep using that model rather than purchase new and bump her up to a 4s or 5 next year.
What are you saying? When has last years cheaper model ever sold out in 8 min? Too funny. This is proof you place higher sales expectations on 5c then you would on the 5 for the same price. This says a lot.
Look at the date of the article. 4s was the year old model in nov 2011? You sure about that?
The mention of iPhone 5 in the article was around the naming fiasco in which the next phone after the 4 was called the 4s instead of the 5
I don't get the point of the colored iPhone if Apple expects it to be so expensive off contract. Other than bigger profit margins. But isn't Apple supposed to be a product company, not a profit margin company? Who exactly is Apple targeting with this product?
Um the market is not for iPhone 5 owners. It's for converts and upgraders that aren't interested in the latest and greatest. It's also for those who love colors.
I think this only confirms the supply constraints they are under. For a guy who allegedly was a supply expert Cook is 0-2 on release dates when it comes to supply.
I could have sworn Apple had released more than 2 products in the last two years. Oh wait they have. Don't those other releases count as wins?
I think the more concerning issue is not selling the 5S on line. That is going to hurts sales. Sure, it will make for some great video as people who would normally buy online go to stores (lines), but there will also be a large percentage of online shoppers that simply dont buy the phone. Heck, in a lot of countries people don live anywhere near a brick and mortar store. I assume they will eventually sell online, but I would think the release date would be a good time to sell as many as possible.
I think this only confirms the supply constraints they are under. For a guy who allegedly was a supply expert Cook is 0-2 on release dates when it comes to supply.
They start selling online at 12:01 A.M. P.S.T. September 20th.
While it won't be available to preorder, the iPhone 5s will hit Apple's online store at 12:01 Pacific next Friday, Sept. 20, while Apple's retail stores will begin selling the device when they open at 8 a.m. local time."
Everyone is trying to overanalyze this. You guys are forgetting that 90% of techie people are guys. I tried to convince my girlfriend to get the 5s because it has a fingerprint sensor, and it was twice as fast, but I failed because the 5c is 'so cute'. It does everything she needs to do (surf the web, text, talk) and it comes in colors she likes. I think the 5c will do well with a whole different crowd of people, the ones who dont care about specs.
Also the $100 price point was a bargain for her, she thought she would have to pay more.
Comments
The 4S doesn't have a retina display?
I have the same medical affliction as Tallest Skil.
I have the same medical affliction as Tallest Skil.
What, bad memory or being foolish enough to read things right after waking up?
" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
What, bad memory or being foolish enough to read things right after waking up?
" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
Bad memory... and "writing" things right after waking up.
Absolutely, totally wrong.
First, you don't have any idea what the costs are.
More importantly, selling prices are not based on cost-they're based on what the market will pay. Apple sets the price in such a way as to maximize its profitability. In order to do so, they have to consider:
- Manufacturing cost
- Price elasticity (that is, how many units could they sell at each price level)
- Market positioning
- Likely competitive response
- Other factors
The fact that you think price should be based on manufacturing cost is sure proof that you don't know what you're talking about. Apple knows what they're doing. You don't.
It's common knowledge that the iPhone usually has the highest margin of any of Apple's products, so he's probably not totally wrong, though I agree that boiling it down to manufacturing cost is overly simplistic.
To add to your list, the licensing to use cellular and 3G/4G radios likely costs more than the parts.
I don't get the point of the colored iPhone if Apple expects it to be so expensive off contract. Other than bigger profit margins. But isn't Apple supposed to be a product company, not a profit margin company? Who exactly is Apple targeting with this product?
Good question.
Must be young females. It's a big market... but not that big.
I guess the white one would have a wider appeal.
To sell five colored iPhones rather a black and white one. To give people more choices within the same pricing structure.
I think the more concerning issue is not selling the 5S on line. That is going to hurts sales. Sure, it will make for some great video as people who would normally buy online go to stores (lines), but there will also be a large percentage of online shoppers that simply dont buy the phone. Heck, in a lot of countries people don live anywhere near a brick and mortar store. I assume they will eventually sell online, but I would think the release date would be a good time to sell as many as possible.
I think this only confirms the supply constraints they are under. For a guy who allegedly was a supply expert Cook is 0-2 on release dates when it comes to supply.
It's not a conspiracy and it's not just Apple they do it to. Jim Cramer and others have all but admitted to such shenanigans. If you really thing there's no incentive to push a stock price down, buy lower and sell high I don't know what to tell you.
Is there an incentive in some portion of the market push stocks down? You bet. That's what short-sellers live on. A vast majority of equity analysts -- the ones whose names are trotted out here -- and the institutions they work for have little or nothing to do with that crowd.
If you think Jim Cramer matters for stock prices, you do need a tinfoil hat.
He's probably talking about this old story:
http://www.slashgear.com/iphone-4s-pre-order-stock-sold-out-in-10-minutes-in-hong-kong-07193673/
Really? Have a look at this:
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/09/13/citing-iphone-5s-yields-iphone-5c-pricing-jefferies-lowers-apple-target-to-425
Furthermore, for the past couple of years (certainly, at least, since Jobs died), the analysts have been spreading doom and gloom about Apple. No more innovation. Saturated market. Losing share. Android eating their lunch. On and on and on. While the price predictions haven't always reflected that, the published reports on Apple have been uniformly negative for quite a while - with no rational reason.
It's common knowledge that the iPhone usually has the highest margin of any of Apple's products, so he's probably not totally wrong, though I agree that boiling it down to manufacturing cost is overly simplistic.
To add to your list, the licensing to use cellular and 3G/4G radios likely costs more than the parts.
Yes it was simplistic. I do have some sort of life compared so others on here so I'm not going to waste my time going into every last detail, and given the vast cost difference there isn't really any need to so to see that Apple are making huge margins on these new phones and could easily have priced them lower if they choose to do so.
The reason why I compared the price to the iPad mini cellular was that it would have most, if not all, of those licensing costs. Yet the 5c is quite a bit more expensive, even with higher material costs on the iPad with the larger more expensive battery, case, glass etc.
Personally I think the 5c pricing is a mistake. They could have used it to enter the mid tier smartphone market whilst keeping margins high. Instead it is priced as a high end phone - £479 for the 16GB model here in the UK. Clearly the US market is very different but in the UK there are more and more people that are not willing to pay that kind of money for a phone anymore - the market is rapidly becoming commoditised with cheaper alternatives available that are 'good enough'.
On contract prices are also too high. Whilst the up front cost may be ok, the monthly charge is loaded by the carrier with extra the repayment cost of the phone - monthly costs are higher for iPhone contracts compared to others here in the UK. For example:
iPhone 5c - £49 up front + £41 per month
HTC one - £29 up front + £36 per month
Samsung S4 - £49 up front + £37 per month
as you can see TCO for the 5c is more and really it is the 5s that should be compared to the S4 and HTC One not last years iPhone 5 in a cheaper case.
With a more competitive price I would have looked at a 5c for my daughter but not at that price. Last year I purchased a used iPhone 4 for £150 and use a £7.50 per month pay as you go SIM. I'll keep using that model rather than purchase new and bump her up to a 4s or 5 next year.
Look at the date of the article. 4s was the year old model in nov 2011? You sure about that?
The mention of iPhone 5 in the article was around the naming fiasco in which the next phone after the 4 was called the 4s instead of the 5
Um the market is not for iPhone 5 owners. It's for converts and upgraders that aren't interested in the latest and greatest. It's also for those who love colors.
I could have sworn Apple had released more than 2 products in the last two years. Oh wait they have. Don't those other releases count as wins?
So basically it's an iPhone 5, only less more affordable. And that won't sell?
More affordable and in an entirely new aesthetic for a different consumer than the stark 5 appealed to with a wider radio system compatibility range.
I think the more concerning issue is not selling the 5S on line. That is going to hurts sales. Sure, it will make for some great video as people who would normally buy online go to stores (lines), but there will also be a large percentage of online shoppers that simply dont buy the phone. Heck, in a lot of countries people don live anywhere near a brick and mortar store. I assume they will eventually sell online, but I would think the release date would be a good time to sell as many as possible.
I think this only confirms the supply constraints they are under. For a guy who allegedly was a supply expert Cook is 0-2 on release dates when it comes to supply.
They start selling online at 12:01 A.M. P.S.T. September 20th.
http://store.apple.com/us/buy-iphone/iphone5s
Or:
"
Online iPhone 5s orders open at 12:01 a.m. Pacific Sept. 20, in-store sales begin locally at 8 a.m.
By Neil Hughes
While it won't be available to preorder, the iPhone 5s will hit Apple's online store at 12:01 Pacific next Friday, Sept. 20, while Apple's retail stores will begin selling the device when they open at 8 a.m. local time."
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/09/13/online-iphone-5s-orders-open-at-1201-am-pacific-sept-20-in-store-sales-begin-locally-at-8-am-local
Really? Have a look at this:
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/09/13/citing-iphone-5s-yields-iphone-5c-pricing-jefferies-lowers-apple-target-to-425
Well, take a look at this, and calculate the average (there are 15 or 16 analysts listed with their price targets): http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/09/11/apple-iphone-5c-analysts/
Everyone is trying to overanalyze this. You guys are forgetting that 90% of techie people are guys. I tried to convince my girlfriend to get the 5s because it has a fingerprint sensor, and it was twice as fast, but I failed because the 5c is 'so cute'. It does everything she needs to do (surf the web, text, talk) and it comes in colors she likes. I think the 5c will do well with a whole different crowd of people, the ones who dont care about specs.
Also the $100 price point was a bargain for her, she thought she would have to pay more.