Yeah, it's not like they have any incentive to artificially push a stock price down, buy low, then reap the profits when it springs back up based on sound fundamentals, industry-envied profit margins and piles of cash to swim in.
At some point, these sorts of conspiracy theories call for a tinfoil hat....
C'mon. I know many of these guys/gals. Are they prescient? No. Are they operating with much more than the same scraps of info as we do? No. Are most of them trying connect the dots as honestly as they can (and subject to the limitations of all valuation models) given that info? Yes.
If you don't believe that, there's not much more to say. The only thing I would add is, if you were talking about analyst relations with inv banking in trading in the late 1990s and early 2000s, I'd agree with you somewhat; but their world has changed substantially in the past decade. (Disclaimer: I am not an analyst, and I largely ignore them in my investment decision-making).
. No they weren't rumors. I didn't see one story on rumor sites or Digitimes, WSJ etc. claiming they were hearing the 5C would be cheap. It wasn't rumor, it was speculation. Speculation that C stood for cheaper on the basis of the thought that Apple needs a cheaper off contract phone in Asia and Europe. There is something called managing expectations and Apple didn't do that.
Nonsense. You're playing silly semantic games. You make up new definitions for words and then complain when the whole world doesn't accept your definition.
There were bloggers and analysts speculating on the phone and saying it would be cheap. There were price estimates as low as $200 unlocked - which would be totally ridiculous.
Whether you want to call it a rumor or not, that's what it was. And the stock dropped dramatically after the announcement was higher than people believed it was going to be. That's a rumor.
But they've been making the same dumb claims about market share and Apple's impending doom since the iPod.
Nonsense. Get your facts straight. They've not been predicting 'impending doom.' The average analyst price forecast for AAPL has been quite substantially above the market price in the past year, when the stock tumbled from $700 to $400 and back up to $500.
In fact, it was higher than $700 when AAPL was $700. It is higher even after the handful of downgrades, but a lot less higher than the current price ($540 current average price forecast relative to a $475 stock price).
A bit strange -- or perhaps not -- that there aren't dozens of frustrated, hands-up-in-the-air "OMG, tried to order at 3AM, but couldn't" posts that have typically followed every iPhone intro since the 3G.
1. Apple has learned it's lesson and prepared.
2. The flagship model isn't available to pre-order
Dumbass? Wow that's really classy. AAPL giving back all it's gains from yesterday as another firm (Jeffries) downgraded the stock this morning. That's 4 downgrades since the Tuesday announcement. If Apple's plan is so brilliant they certainly haven't sold many people on it.
So you like the analysts that caused the Great Recession?
One of the great mysteries about Apple - why can't they update their store without taking it down, like almost every other online retailer on the planet?
It's not that Apple can't, it's they don't keep it up. It's about anticipation and the fact they are confident enough to stop selling all items for three hours. Other vendors can't shut there stored down because they need the money.
. No they weren't rumors. I didn't see one story on rumor sites or Digitimes, WSJ etc. claiming they were hearing the 5C would be cheap. It wasn't rumor, it was speculation. Speculation that C stood for cheaper on the basis of the thought that Apple needs a cheaper off contract phone in Asia and Europe. There is something called managing expectations and Apple didn't do that.
Speciation without facts are rumors or bad analysis. What analyst will admit to the latter.
He sure didn't make any of them… " src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
Spindler tried to produce Mac models that would appeal to the masses. Making cheaper models in an attempt to gain market share. Although Mac market share did make some gains, Windows market share grew substantially more.
Sounds to me like your mommy and daddy are paying your bills. People who work for a living are increasingly demanding no contract, and for $550 the 5C is a really bad deal.
Sounds to me like you really don't know anything about who's demanding what. Mommy and Daddy don't pay for jackshit with me and haven't for 20 years or so. Wife and I both work, have a couple of kids and for us, we've found a carrier we like and just get the phone with a contract. I won't rule out going to something like TMobile eventually but even then the money down is about the same as the price without contract. I don't know that I ever plan on going straight now contract.
Nonsense. You're playing silly semantic games. You make up new definitions for words and then complain when the whole world doesn't accept your definition.
There were bloggers and analysts speculating on the phone and saying it would be cheap. There were price estimates as low as $200 unlocked - which would be totally ridiculous.
Whether you want to call it a rumor or not, that's what it was. And the stock dropped dramatically after the announcement was higher than people believed it was going to be. That's a rumor.
Fine call it rumors. Still Apple didn't manage expectations. Of course they wouldn't directly respond to rumors but a little birdy could have whispered something to Jim Dalrymple or the WSJ that these really low pricing guesses were off the mark.
A while back 9to5Mac ran with a story about iOS 7 code referencing a non-retina iPad mini. That got picked up elsewhere as evidence that the mini would not be retina. Then a day or two later the WSJ (and Bloomberg) put out stories that the next mini would be retina. Doesn't take a genius to figure out where WSJ ans Bloomberg got their information from.
Apple does leak things from time to time. They could have managed pricing expectations on the 5C better.
At some point, these sorts of conspiracy theories call for a tinfoil hat....
C'mon. I know many of these guys/gals. Are they prescient? No. Are they operating with much more than the same scraps of info as we do? No. Are most of them trying connect the dots as honestly as they can (and subject to the limitations of all valuation models) given that info? Yes.
If you don't believe that, there's not much more to say. The only thing I would add is, if you were talking about analyst relations with inv banking in trading in the late 1990s and early 2000s, I'd agree with you somewhat; but their world has changed substantially in the past decade. (Disclaimer: I am not an analyst, and I largely ignore them in my investment decision-making).
It's not a conspiracy and it's not just Apple they do it to. Jim Cramer and others have all but admitted to such shenanigans. If you really thing there's no incentive to push a stock price down, buy lower and sell high I don't know what to tell you.
It's not going to sell. People are going to realize the color thing is just a gimmick. Inside it is identically an iPhone 5 100% -- nothing new.
You forget there are still folks rocking the 3GS and 4. For them a 5 is a huge step up. They don't need the latest and greatest and are often money conscious enough that saying $100 is fine with them.
So while this phone might not sell like the super high tech 5s, it will likely sell enough to be worth it to the company. Although selling it as a replacement to the 4s and 5 in 8 GB and 16gb would probably have been better sales wise, and dumping the old 30 pin wise.
It's amazing how stupid people are. I mean, I have bad memory (that I maintain is medical), but these people are pretending like the last four years of iPhone pricing never happened.
You forget there are still folks rocking the 3GS and 4. For them a 5 is a huge step up. They don't need the latest and greatest and are often money conscious enough that saying $100 is fine with them.
So while this phone might not sell like the super high tech 5s, it will likely sell enough to be worth it to the company. Although selling it as a replacement to the 4s and 5 in 8 GB and 16gb would probably have been better sales wise, and dumping the old 30 pin wise.
I was thinking that Apple could have upped the specs in the 4S. Stick an A6 in it.
My Wife and I love that phone. We like the chunkier form factor.
A bit strange -- or perhaps not -- that there aren't dozens of frustrated, hands-up-in-the-air "OMG, tried to order at 3AM, but couldn't" posts that have typically followed every iPhone intro since the 3G.
The way the Apple Is Doomed(TM) crowd explained past Apple product launches:
If delivery date is quickly pushed back, its a sign of "supply constraint," not high demand.
If delivery date doesn't move it's a sign of "lack of demand," not increased launch supply.
And if they're proven wrong later (they always are) they quietly disappear from the forums, lay low until the next product launch. Then the "Apple's not competitive meme" starts all over again.
Comments
You specifically mentioned the era without Steve Jobs and now claim it has nothing to do with Steve Jobs? Really?
Yes... really.
I was talking about the decision making process.
Nothing to do with Steve Jobs at all.
Yeah, it's not like they have any incentive to artificially push a stock price down, buy low, then reap the profits when it springs back up based on sound fundamentals, industry-envied profit margins and piles of cash to swim in.
At some point, these sorts of conspiracy theories call for a tinfoil hat....
C'mon. I know many of these guys/gals. Are they prescient? No. Are they operating with much more than the same scraps of info as we do? No. Are most of them trying connect the dots as honestly as they can (and subject to the limitations of all valuation models) given that info? Yes.
If you don't believe that, there's not much more to say. The only thing I would add is, if you were talking about analyst relations with inv banking in trading in the late 1990s and early 2000s, I'd agree with you somewhat; but their world has changed substantially in the past decade. (Disclaimer: I am not an analyst, and I largely ignore them in my investment decision-making).
I was talking about the decision making process. Nothing to do with Steve Jobs at all.
He sure didn't make any of them…
" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
Nonsense. You're playing silly semantic games. You make up new definitions for words and then complain when the whole world doesn't accept your definition.
There were bloggers and analysts speculating on the phone and saying it would be cheap. There were price estimates as low as $200 unlocked - which would be totally ridiculous.
Whether you want to call it a rumor or not, that's what it was. And the stock dropped dramatically after the announcement was higher than people believed it was going to be. That's a rumor.
But they've been making the same dumb claims about market share and Apple's impending doom since the iPod.
Nonsense. Get your facts straight. They've not been predicting 'impending doom.' The average analyst price forecast for AAPL has been quite substantially above the market price in the past year, when the stock tumbled from $700 to $400 and back up to $500.
In fact, it was higher than $700 when AAPL was $700. It is higher even after the handful of downgrades, but a lot less higher than the current price ($540 current average price forecast relative to a $475 stock price).
1. Apple has learned it's lesson and prepared.
2. The flagship model isn't available to pre-order
So you like the analysts that caused the Great Recession?
It's not that Apple can't, it's they don't keep it up. It's about anticipation and the fact they are confident enough to stop selling all items for three hours. Other vendors can't shut there stored down because they need the money.
So you like the analysts that caused the Great Recession?
Oh... please, please.... get your facts straight. Equity analysts had little or nothing to with the last recession.
At least, if you had mentioned the bond rating agencies (e.g., S&P, Moody's) and their bond analysts, I could give you partial credit.
[Speculation] without facts are rumors or bad analysis.
I'd urge you to follow your own advice.
He sure didn't make any of them…
" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
Spindler tried to produce Mac models that would appeal to the masses. Making cheaper models in an attempt to gain market share. Although Mac market share did make some gains, Windows market share grew substantially more.
Oh... please, please.... get your facts straight. Equity analysts had little or nothing to with the last recession.
At least, if you had mentioned the bond rating agencies (e.g., S&P, Moody's) and their bond analysts, I could give you partial credit.
Sounds to me like your mommy and daddy are paying your bills. People who work for a living are increasingly demanding no contract, and for $550 the 5C is a really bad deal.
Sounds to me like you really don't know anything about who's demanding what. Mommy and Daddy don't pay for jackshit with me and haven't for 20 years or so. Wife and I both work, have a couple of kids and for us, we've found a carrier we like and just get the phone with a contract. I won't rule out going to something like TMobile eventually but even then the money down is about the same as the price without contract. I don't know that I ever plan on going straight now contract.
A while back 9to5Mac ran with a story about iOS 7 code referencing a non-retina iPad mini. That got picked up elsewhere as evidence that the mini would not be retina. Then a day or two later the WSJ (and Bloomberg) put out stories that the next mini would be retina. Doesn't take a genius to figure out where WSJ ans Bloomberg got their information from.
Apple does leak things from time to time. They could have managed pricing expectations on the 5C better.
At some point, these sorts of conspiracy theories call for a tinfoil hat....
C'mon. I know many of these guys/gals. Are they prescient? No. Are they operating with much more than the same scraps of info as we do? No. Are most of them trying connect the dots as honestly as they can (and subject to the limitations of all valuation models) given that info? Yes.
If you don't believe that, there's not much more to say. The only thing I would add is, if you were talking about analyst relations with inv banking in trading in the late 1990s and early 2000s, I'd agree with you somewhat; but their world has changed substantially in the past decade. (Disclaimer: I am not an analyst, and I largely ignore them in my investment decision-making).
It's not a conspiracy and it's not just Apple they do it to. Jim Cramer and others have all but admitted to such shenanigans. If you really thing there's no incentive to push a stock price down, buy lower and sell high I don't know what to tell you.
I was talking about the banks that employ the paid guessers in general and not the individual analysts.
So while this phone might not sell like the super high tech 5s, it will likely sell enough to be worth it to the company. Although selling it as a replacement to the 4s and 5 in 8 GB and 16gb would probably have been better sales wise, and dumping the old 30 pin wise.
It's amazing how stupid people are. I mean, I have bad memory (that I maintain is medical), but these people are pretending like the last four years of iPhone pricing never happened.
I don't understand why we put up with it.
You forget there are still folks rocking the 3GS and 4. For them a 5 is a huge step up. They don't need the latest and greatest and are often money conscious enough that saying $100 is fine with them.
So while this phone might not sell like the super high tech 5s, it will likely sell enough to be worth it to the company. Although selling it as a replacement to the 4s and 5 in 8 GB and 16gb would probably have been better sales wise, and dumping the old 30 pin wise.
I was thinking that Apple could have upped the specs in the 4S. Stick an A6 in it.
My Wife and I love that phone. We like the chunkier form factor.
The way the Apple Is Doomed(TM) crowd explained past Apple product launches:
If delivery date is quickly pushed back, its a sign of "supply constraint," not high demand.
If delivery date doesn't move it's a sign of "lack of demand," not increased launch supply.
And if they're proven wrong later (they always are) they quietly disappear from the forums, lay low until the next product launch. Then the "Apple's not competitive meme" starts all over again.