One of the great mysteries about Apple - why can't they update their store without taking it down, like almost every other online retailer on the planet?
they do it to build anticipation but IMO it's starting to wear a little thin these days.
You have WalMart and TMobile offering the 16GB 5C for $79.
Sounds to me like your mommy and daddy are paying your bills. People who work for a living are increasingly demanding no contract, and for $550 the 5C is a really bad deal.
The other mistake is worshiping at the altar of stock projections. These guys keep downing Apple's stock and Apple keeps making money like they have a printing facility for it.
And sorry about the "dumbass"...I just get weary of this thing almost every time Apple launches practically anything. Hedge fund guys say they're disappointed and downgrade, tech writers say Apple missed an opportunity, Apple forums get flooded with armchair CEOs telling everyone what Apple *should* have done instead and predicting sales to be off or impending doom. It's a replay of what they said last fall when the iPhone 5 was launched and just had a slightly larger screen and was thinner and lighter. "Not innovative enough." "What about 'phablets'?" "What about NFC?"
...then Apple breaks another sales record.
Normally I would agree with you but I think there was a missed opportunity here. And the branding and positioning of this is wrong. When people think iPhone 5 they don't think colored plastic. Doesn't mean the colored plastic phone isn't a great phone. And I would bet its the best plastic phone on the market in terms of build quality. If Apple had called it iPhone color (or something like that with NO reference to the 5) there would be a different impression of it.
You have to consider that some people have a life and that all the smartphone market has lost some of its "Wow" factor.
So, maybe the iPhone 5c won't break records the first day (maybe...), but I won't be surprise it sells very well. Christmas could be huge.
Globally, the iOs ecosystem is an ecosystem in good "health" and with quality products. I don't think anyone who cares about Apple should be anxious about the numbers of the first pre-order day ("pre-order"... the 5c is not publicly on display yet and you can't pre-order the 5s!).
One of the great mysteries about Apple - why can't they update their store without taking it down, like almost every other online retailer on the planet?
Every other online retailer uses a Windows based program?
Oh and another thing,...Apple knew the chatter out there was that the 5C would be a cheaper phone. Yet they did absolutely nothing to temper expectations. Yeah yeah yeah I know apple doesn't respond to rumors. But these weren't rumors. For several months Apple allowed the chatter to coalesce around 5C standing for cheap, i.e. more affordable and then when they announced it, it was anything but. WTF Apple. :no:
Amelio was more in the second-half of the 90s (1996-97).
People have to accept and remember some facts:
- S. Jobs is dead.
- People who run Apple today were with S. Jobs for many years.
- Actual leaders of Apple can make mistakes (I don't think the 5c is one and surely not the 5s). S. Jobs did some mistakes too.
- S. Jobs was unique. Doesn't mean its spirit can still live in Apple. And I'm pretty sure it's always the case.
- Remember what S. Jobs told to Tim Cook before he died : "never ask yourselves what I would have done". We should do the same and live for Today.
a. Your comment came long after my edit to my comment. It has happened before (edits not showing up) and I find it a bit odd. Anyway... I meant to say Spindler.
b. I don't seem to remember saying anything about Steve Jobs.
Oh and another thing,...Apple knew the chatter out there was that the 5C would be a cheaper phone. Yet they did absolutely nothing to temper expectations. Yeah yeah yeah I know apple doesn't respond to rumors. But these weren't rumors. For several months Apple allowed the chatter to coalesce around 5C standing for cheap, i.e. more affordable and then when they announced it, it was anything but. WTF Apple. :no:
They weren't rumors? Then what were they?
Obviously, they were rumors - and Apple doesn't respond to rumors.
Just because they're making money today doesn't mean they will be tomorrow. Stupid business decisions kill companies all the time, and Apple's shrinking market share is not a reversing trend -- it's a trend that puts more pressure on them to make good decisions, which they are not doing.
Except for one thing - Apple's "shrinking market share" goes along with Apple's continued increase in sales and revenues.
The problem is that people are defining market very broadly - and including entry level, crappy smartphones in the same market as the iPhone. Apple has no desire to sell to that market. If you look only at the mid- to high-end smartphones that Apple sells, their share is likely to be holding up OK. But even if it isn't, it's not particularly relevant. Apple created a new category and led the way. Even if the category grows faster than Apple's sales for a time, that doesn't hurt Apple.
The other mistake is worshiping at the altar of stock projections. These guys keep downing Apple's stock and Apple keeps making money like they have a printing facility for it.
And sorry about the "dumbass"...I just get weary of this thing almost every time Apple launches practically anything. Hedge fund guys say they're disappointed and downgrade, tech writers say Apple missed an opportunity, Apple forums get flooded with armchair CEOs telling everyone what Apple *should* have done instead and predicting sales to be off or impending doom. It's a replay of what they said last fall when the iPhone 5 was launched and just had a slightly larger screen and was thinner and lighter. "Not innovative enough." "What about 'phablets'?" "What about NFC?"
...then Apple breaks another sales record.
Agreed. It's quite a scam. The analysts come out with some projection for what Apple is going to do (more often than not, they appear to simply make it up). Then, if Apple fails to do what the analyst 'projected', APPLE is the one who is punished, not the analyst.
Oh and another thing,...Apple knew the chatter out there was that the 5C would be a cheaper phone. Yet they did absolutely nothing to temper expectations. Yeah yeah yeah I know apple doesn't respond to rumors. But these weren't rumors. For several months Apple allowed the chatter to coalesce around 5C standing for cheap, i.e. more affordable and then when they announced it, it was anything but. WTF Apple.
Where I live, media reported that Apple had unveiled an affordable iPhone.
Yes, I too I was expecting a more affordable 5c without contract. So, some deception here and a lesson : to not believe Apple products price rumours! : ) But I don't think it's a bad move for Apple. It might not be a day 1 success, but should the reviews be good, it could be a very popular smartphone.
Yeah, it's not like they've got real money and jobs riding on it or anything, unlike the credibility, knowledge, incentives, and analytical capabilities of some anonymous internet poster....
Yeah, it's not like they have any incentive to artificially push a stock price down, buy low, then reap the profits when it springs back up based on sound fundamentals, industry-envied profit margins and piles of cash to swim in.
Yeah, it's not like they have any incentive to artificially push a stock price down, buy low, then reap the profits when it springs back up based on sound fundamentals, industry-envied profit margins and piles of cash to swim in.
Sure... it's a rigged game to some degree... but not to the level that you are suggesting.
Nobody wants to be left holding the bag. Cook with Jobs is unproven... regardless of the stints while Jobs was away... Jobs was still in the picture.
If the holiday quarter is a runaway success then maybe some trust will be breathed back into Apple's stock... but not until then... and there also has to be a follow up.
These guys are looking down the road... 2 to 3 years at least.
Obviously, they were rumors - and Apple doesn't respond to rumors.
. No they weren't rumors. I didn't see one story on rumor sites or Digitimes, WSJ etc. claiming they were hearing the 5C would be cheap. It wasn't rumor, it was speculation. Speculation that C stood for cheaper on the basis of the thought that Apple needs a cheaper off contract phone in Asia and Europe. There is something called managing expectations and Apple didn't do that.
That works for the US but despite your belief the US is not the center of the world. Apple needs to get more competitive in markets like Europe, India and China where a big majority of people buy their phones off-contract for the full price.
Another person is so worried about Apple's competitive place in the world. "OMG OMG they're gonna lose China! Be more competitive, Apple!" So why do you care whether Apple is doomed? Some of you would delight in it, I'm sure.
15 minutes in, you can still preorder the 5C with an est. delivery of 9/20. Doesn't seem to sell well.
Here. Have some cake. And then leave.
Originally Posted by alex101
The pricing is beyond me. I can get the iP5 with higher-quality materials cheaper, so yeah, I hope the 5C fails and Apple has to lower the price by at least $100.
Well, you're an idiot. That's really all there is to it; you're looking the truth square in the face and claiming not to comprehend it. That's idiocy.
Originally Posted by gijoeinla
First and foremost -- this is a forum for enthusiasts - passionate "core" customers - for either one side or the other...
I can clue you in on which side it's for. " src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
Originally Posted by alex101
Just compare the 5c and 5s. Do you think all the upgrades in the 5s (new 64-bit processor, M7 coprocessor, better GPU, fingerprint reader, better camera, amongst others AND a higher-quality housing) are worth just $100 more?
Yes, because they are always worth $100 more. You act as though this is your first rodeo, kiddo. Is it? You need to answer that question, because you look like a total moron otherwise.
Hell, the 32GB 5c and the 16GB 5s are selling for the *same* price. That does not make sense. At all.
Here's a dime. Go buy some sense down at the sense store. Apple has always done this. If after seven years the fact that this is how they price products still eludes you, then please just elude us so we're rid of this nonsense.
Originally Posted by blackbook
Sales are probably slow. There's no delay in shipping dates after 4+ hours. 5S would have sold out by now
Or, you know, they could have MADE MORE DEVICES THIS TIME AROUND, STARTING PRODUCTION EARLIER, WHICH WOULD ALSO EXPLAIN THE FACT THAT WE SAW FULLY BOXED MODELS MUCH SOONER THAN WE USUALLY DO.
How is it that "Apple has failed" is the first thing to jump into you people's minds. I bet you'll say the same thing when the Mac Pro doesn't sell out. Heck, the Haswell iMac won't even sell out; apparently that's a failure, too.
Originally Posted by Rogifan
Apple should have shaken things up this year. They should have gone with two models: iPhone and iPhone color. iPhone would be the premium device with premium specs, features and design. iPhone color would be the colorful cheaper sibling.
See, except they DID THAT.
By positioning the 5C in what would have been the 5's slot you've got some people thinking 'I could have gotten a 5, with its premium design for $100 cheaper, instead Apple is throwing colored plastic at me'.
What idiot thinks that? Laypeople don't pay attention to Apple, you have to remember. All they see are the announcements, not knowing or caring what came before. They see two new phones, one cheaper than the other.
Originally Posted by blackbook
This whole 5C fiasco makes Apple look bad.
I'm 100% certain that saying "fiasco" at this point invalidates anything you would otherwise be claiming. I won't even ask you how you can possibly say this, because you cannot possibly say this, and you know better.
Originally Posted by blackbook
And you're acting like Apple cannot make any mistakes on any of the above.
I'll respond for him: No, just that they didn't.
Originally Posted by Rogifan
If Apple's plan is so brilliant they certainly haven't sold many people on it.
… Why are you pretending Wall Street doesn't do this after every single product announcement?
Originally Posted by island hermit
b. I don't seem to remember saying anything about Steve Jobs.
You specifically mentioned the era without Steve Jobs and now claim it has nothing to do with Steve Jobs? Really?
Originally Posted by ealvarez
Where I live, media reported that Apple had unveiled an affordable iPhone.
a. Your comment came long after my edit to my comment. It has happened before (edits not showing up) and I find it a bit odd. Anyway... I meant to say Spindler.
b. I don't seem to remember saying anything about Steve Jobs.
a. Ah! ... I don't think T. Cook is Spindler
b. True. You did not say anything about S. Jobs. But for many people, the day S. Jobs died, Apple died too and they can't imagine Apple doing good products or right move anymore. I'm an Apple products user since the beginning of the 90s. I remember the "dark days" and I hope I won't live anymore those days. And I really don't see it coming. T. Cook has kept the spirit of S. Jobs about staying focus at doing great products and J. Ive is the design spirit of S. Jobs.
Where I live, media reported that Apple had unveiled an affordable iPhone.
Yes, I too I was expecting a more affordable 5c without contract. So, some deception here and a lesson : to not believe Apple products price rumours! : ) But I don't think it's a bad move for Apple. It might not be a day 1 success, but should the reviews be good, it could be a very popular smartphone.
But there weren't really pricing rumors. Just guesses from Wall Street analysts and some bloggers. I remember reading John Gruber's pricing guesses and thought '"wow that seems high". And then when the official prices come out they're even higher! Even Gruber was a bit surprised by the pricing.
Just because they're making money today doesn't mean they will be tomorrow. Stupid business decisions kill companies all the time, and Apple's shrinking market share is not a reversing trend -- it's a trend that puts more pressure on them to make good decisions, which they are not doing.
But they've been making the same dumb claims about market share and Apple's impending doom since the iPod. And they continue to be wrong because they are foisting an old business model onto Apple that doesn't and never has fit. Point of fact...the iPhone has never been the market share leader in the smartphone category. And yet, Apple keeps being the most profitable one in the segment and until Samsung basically took all the Android cookies from Moto, HTC and others was the ONLY one making money at all.
And who says this isn't a good decision? You? The same dingbats that keep being wrong all the time?
Comments
One of the great mysteries about Apple - why can't they update their store without taking it down, like almost every other online retailer on the planet?
they do it to build anticipation but IMO it's starting to wear a little thin these days.
You have WalMart and TMobile offering the 16GB 5C for $79.
Sounds to me like your mommy and daddy are paying your bills. People who work for a living are increasingly demanding no contract, and for $550 the 5C is a really bad deal.
Normally I would agree with you but I think there was a missed opportunity here. And the branding and positioning of this is wrong. When people think iPhone 5 they don't think colored plastic. Doesn't mean the colored plastic phone isn't a great phone. And I would bet its the best plastic phone on the market in terms of build quality. If Apple had called it iPhone color (or something like that with NO reference to the 5) there would be a different impression of it.
Great- keep their relatives out of our NYC lines next Friday. It's been out of control the last 4 years.
I feel like I've gone back in time... back to the early 90s.
The type of decision making that I would attribute to [Spindler, sorry, not Amelio].
I hope I'm wrong.
You have to consider that some people have a life and that all the smartphone market has lost some of its "Wow" factor.
So, maybe the iPhone 5c won't break records the first day (maybe...), but I won't be surprise it sells very well. Christmas could be huge.
Globally, the iOs ecosystem is an ecosystem in good "health" and with quality products. I don't think anyone who cares about Apple should be anxious about the numbers of the first pre-order day ("pre-order"... the 5c is not publicly on display yet and you can't pre-order the 5s!).
Every other online retailer uses a Windows based program?
I feel like I've gone back in time... back to the early 90s.
The type of decision making that I would attribute to Amelio.
I hope I'm wrong.
Amelio was more in the second-half of the 90s (1996-97).
People have to accept and remember some facts:
- S. Jobs is dead.
- People who run Apple today were with S. Jobs for many years.
- Actual leaders of Apple can make mistakes (I don't think the 5c is one and surely not the 5s). S. Jobs did some mistakes too.
- S. Jobs was unique. Doesn't mean its spirit can still live in Apple. And I'm pretty sure it's always the case.
- Remember what S. Jobs told to Tim Cook before he died : "never ask yourselves what I would have done". We should do the same and live for Today.
Amelio was more in the second-half of the 90s (1996-97).
People have to accept and remember some facts:
- S. Jobs is dead.
- People who run Apple today were with S. Jobs for many years.
- Actual leaders of Apple can make mistakes (I don't think the 5c is one and surely not the 5s). S. Jobs did some mistakes too.
- S. Jobs was unique. Doesn't mean its spirit can still live in Apple. And I'm pretty sure it's always the case.
- Remember what S. Jobs told to Tim Cook before he died : "never ask yourselves what I would have done". We should do the same and live for Today.
a. Your comment came long after my edit to my comment. It has happened before (edits not showing up) and I find it a bit odd. Anyway... I meant to say Spindler.
b. I don't seem to remember saying anything about Steve Jobs.
They weren't rumors? Then what were they?
Obviously, they were rumors - and Apple doesn't respond to rumors.
Except for one thing - Apple's "shrinking market share" goes along with Apple's continued increase in sales and revenues.
The problem is that people are defining market very broadly - and including entry level, crappy smartphones in the same market as the iPhone. Apple has no desire to sell to that market. If you look only at the mid- to high-end smartphones that Apple sells, their share is likely to be holding up OK. But even if it isn't, it's not particularly relevant. Apple created a new category and led the way. Even if the category grows faster than Apple's sales for a time, that doesn't hurt Apple.
Agreed. It's quite a scam. The analysts come out with some projection for what Apple is going to do (more often than not, they appear to simply make it up). Then, if Apple fails to do what the analyst 'projected', APPLE is the one who is punished, not the analyst.
Oh and another thing,...Apple knew the chatter out there was that the 5C would be a cheaper phone. Yet they did absolutely nothing to temper expectations. Yeah yeah yeah I know apple doesn't respond to rumors. But these weren't rumors. For several months Apple allowed the chatter to coalesce around 5C standing for cheap, i.e. more affordable and then when they announced it, it was anything but. WTF Apple.
Where I live, media reported that Apple had unveiled an affordable iPhone.
Yes, I too I was expecting a more affordable 5c without contract. So, some deception here and a lesson : to not believe Apple products price rumours! : ) But I don't think it's a bad move for Apple. It might not be a day 1 success, but should the reviews be good, it could be a very popular smartphone.
Yeah, it's not like they've got real money and jobs riding on it or anything, unlike the credibility, knowledge, incentives, and analytical capabilities of some anonymous internet poster....
Yeah, it's not like they have any incentive to artificially push a stock price down, buy low, then reap the profits when it springs back up based on sound fundamentals, industry-envied profit margins and piles of cash to swim in.
Yeah, it's not like they have any incentive to artificially push a stock price down, buy low, then reap the profits when it springs back up based on sound fundamentals, industry-envied profit margins and piles of cash to swim in.
Sure... it's a rigged game to some degree... but not to the level that you are suggesting.
Nobody wants to be left holding the bag. Cook with Jobs is unproven... regardless of the stints while Jobs was away... Jobs was still in the picture.
If the holiday quarter is a runaway success then maybe some trust will be breathed back into Apple's stock... but not until then... and there also has to be a follow up.
These guys are looking down the road... 2 to 3 years at least.
Another person is so worried about Apple's competitive place in the world. "OMG OMG they're gonna lose China! Be more competitive, Apple!" So why do you care whether Apple is doomed? Some of you would delight in it, I'm sure.
I'd much rather lace it with cyanide.
Here. Have some cake. And then leave.
The pricing is beyond me. I can get the iP5 with higher-quality materials cheaper, so yeah, I hope the 5C fails and Apple has to lower the price by at least $100.
Well, you're an idiot. That's really all there is to it; you're looking the truth square in the face and claiming not to comprehend it. That's idiocy.
I can clue you in on which side it's for.
" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
Just compare the 5c and 5s. Do you think all the upgrades in the 5s (new 64-bit processor, M7 coprocessor, better GPU, fingerprint reader, better camera, amongst others AND a higher-quality housing) are worth just $100 more?
Yes, because they are always worth $100 more. You act as though this is your first rodeo, kiddo. Is it? You need to answer that question, because you look like a total moron otherwise.
Here's a dime. Go buy some sense down at the sense store. Apple has always done this. If after seven years the fact that this is how they price products still eludes you, then please just elude us so we're rid of this nonsense.
Or, you know, they could have MADE MORE DEVICES THIS TIME AROUND, STARTING PRODUCTION EARLIER, WHICH WOULD ALSO EXPLAIN THE FACT THAT WE SAW FULLY BOXED MODELS MUCH SOONER THAN WE USUALLY DO.
How is it that "Apple has failed" is the first thing to jump into you people's minds. I bet you'll say the same thing when the Mac Pro doesn't sell out. Heck, the Haswell iMac won't even sell out; apparently that's a failure, too.
See, except they DID THAT.
What idiot thinks that? Laypeople don't pay attention to Apple, you have to remember. All they see are the announcements, not knowing or caring what came before. They see two new phones, one cheaper than the other.
This whole 5C fiasco makes Apple look bad.
I'm 100% certain that saying "fiasco" at this point invalidates anything you would otherwise be claiming. I won't even ask you how you can possibly say this, because you cannot possibly say this, and you know better.
And you're acting like Apple cannot make any mistakes on any of the above.
I'll respond for him: No, just that they didn't.
… Why are you pretending Wall Street doesn't do this after every single product announcement?
b. I don't seem to remember saying anything about Steve Jobs.
You specifically mentioned the era without Steve Jobs and now claim it has nothing to do with Steve Jobs? Really?
Where I live, media reported that Apple had unveiled an affordable iPhone.
They need to be sued for slander.
a. Your comment came long after my edit to my comment. It has happened before (edits not showing up) and I find it a bit odd. Anyway... I meant to say Spindler.
b. I don't seem to remember saying anything about Steve Jobs.
a. Ah! ... I don't think T. Cook is Spindler
b. True. You did not say anything about S. Jobs. But for many people, the day S. Jobs died, Apple died too and they can't imagine Apple doing good products or right move anymore. I'm an Apple products user since the beginning of the 90s. I remember the "dark days" and I hope I won't live anymore those days. And I really don't see it coming. T. Cook has kept the spirit of S. Jobs about staying focus at doing great products and J. Ive is the design spirit of S. Jobs.
Just because they're making money today doesn't mean they will be tomorrow. Stupid business decisions kill companies all the time, and Apple's shrinking market share is not a reversing trend -- it's a trend that puts more pressure on them to make good decisions, which they are not doing.
But they've been making the same dumb claims about market share and Apple's impending doom since the iPod. And they continue to be wrong because they are foisting an old business model onto Apple that doesn't and never has fit. Point of fact...the iPhone has never been the market share leader in the smartphone category. And yet, Apple keeps being the most profitable one in the segment and until Samsung basically took all the Android cookies from Moto, HTC and others was the ONLY one making money at all.
And who says this isn't a good decision? You? The same dingbats that keep being wrong all the time?